Needle in a haystack?

spuncy · 27-04-2012 1:57pm #1

Hello all,

I've just recently gotten into this genealogy thing and was able to get a lot of my recent ancestors fairly quickly, thanks to the info from this forum. Thanks a lot!

Background: My great-grandfather Murphy died in 1924 just before my grandfather was born. He was 29/30 and died in the Mater. He is buried in Ballyboggan near Kinnegad. That's all the information we had to go on (not even his first name!).

Two questions:

1) I found what I think is my great-grandfather's birth record (from GRO) in Dublin, but it has his mother's maiden name as Jane Crowley. When I cross-referenced using the Census and birth records for other children, it should be Mooney. When I searched for Jane Mooney, I found a link to the exact parish where my ggf is buried, but I cannot find any record of Jane Crowley.

Is it common for these types of mistakes on the civil records or have I hit upon a complete coincidence? (Wouldn't be the first one if I have..)

2) I found the marriage record of my ggf's parents (John & Jane) in 1893. This gives John's father as Thomas. In the census, John states his birthplace as Westmeath in 1901 and Meath in 1911 (thankfully, not Wexford or Cork!).

I've whittled down the list of birth records for John Murphy across all registration districts that cover Meath and Westmeath and I have 7 between 1864 and 1866 (based on his ages specified in both the 1901 and 1911 census).

Any ideas on how I can reduce this further? I have used rootsireland a good few times lately, but it does not have records for John Murphy born around that time.

I'd like not to have to buy 7 more birth records from the GRO to see if the father is Thomas and even then, may not be a match..

Thanks!

rhapsody · 27-04-2012 7:44pm

Sorry if this is a silly question but how do you know/think you have your g.grandfather’s birth record if you dont have his first name? How did you work it out, especially given his surname is so common? Also cant you get his first name by getting your grandad’s birth cert? (presumably you have more detail on him & can get a definite result?)

As for your Q2, do you mean you have details of 7 possible civil certs for John Murphys? When I get to that point I check the baptismal certs & compare them with civil certs (on familysearch.org), as the baptismals usually have the father’s name listed. If you can match a baptismal record to one of the possible civil certs you might be able to rule them out based on the father’s name. You might still have to buy more than one cert but it might bring your price down from €28!

spuncy · 27-04-2012 8:43pm

Thanks for the response Rhapsody.

I couldn't find my grandfather's civil birth record, but luckily my dad got in contact with a relative who confirmed the ggf's name was Thomas. I had kinda started there with my searching anyway.

We know the death cert is correct based on the details and I had to get all 4 birth certs of Thomas Murphy in 1895 and check each one. I had his marriage cert as we knew all about the ggm's side of the family and I correlated the civil cert using familysearch.org. So I had the ggf father's name then.

I subsequently searched the census and found a matching family with the ggf's name and his father's name. I wasn't sure until I got the details on his mother's side and the Ballyboggan connection appeared. It could still be wrong, but not sure what else I can do to confirm.

As for John Murphy (his father), yes, I had 7 (actually 8) civil record matches. I went into the GRO this afternoon and got 5 of them. None matched. I can get the other 3 matched on Monday. There are no baptism records that I can find on him, unfortunately. I've checked the sites I can think of, but no match.

It's entirely possible he's not registered in the civil registry as he was born in 1864 or 1866 depending on the census age and even that could be wrong. Also, it may be that he wasn't from Meath/Westmeath at all - I've seen relatives put completely wrong info in that part of the census.

Very frustrating!

rhapsody · 28-04-2012 10:37pm

Frustrating indeed!

The first part sounds grand, a roundabout way to find out your g.grandfather's first name unfortunately; but you're as sure as you can ever be about his name based on everything you listed.

As for your g.g.grandfather, I'd suggest expanding your years a little (maybe 2 years either side) & see if that yields any results. As for the geography, I'd try to find out a little more about the rest of his life & this would hopefully give some clues to his county of origin/ confirm it as Meath or Westmeath. His obituary might have something? Beyond that go to the NLI, sort out your likely parishes (well, do in advance) & search for the baptismal record- as you say a civil record may not exist. This would be time consuming, so I'd take this as a last resort, once you've exhausted all civil cert options. I'd wonder about siblings of your g.grandfathers and your g.g.grandfathers- the more you know about the family the better.

Sorry I've nothing more specific, just try & think of it from other angles. if all else fails, stop searching for a while & come back to it later

spuncy · 29-04-2012 9:20am

Thanks for the advice - I had planned on looking for the obituaries once I had whittled down a few more possibilities, but it may be better to use them first to get more info for baptism/civil records first.

I've used the rootsireland site for church records - would the NLI contain more records than they have on their site?

I think I was spoiled by the ease at which I found records for the other branches of the family (all farmers/country folk, less common names and plenty of information from family sources).

I should have read more detective books to prepare for this!

pinkypinky · 29-04-2012 12:14pm

spuncy wrote: »

Thanks for the advice - I had planned on looking for the obituaries once I had whittled down a few more possibilities, but it may be better to use them first to get more info for baptism/civil records first.

I've used the rootsireland site for church records - would the NLI contain more records than they have on their site?

I think I was spoiled by the ease at which I found records for the other branches of the family (all farmers/country folk, less common names and plenty of information from family sources).

I should have read more detective books to prepare for this!

The NLI's records in most cases cut off about 1880 - some go up to 1900 though. There is a list on their website of what dates for which parishs.

http://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspx

rhapsody · 29-04-2012 12:24pm

spuncy wrote: »

I've used the rootsireland site for church records - would the NLI contain more records than they have on their site?

I cant answer on this I'm afraid, I dont use rootsireland at all. I've spent many days looking through microfilm in the NLI, it's often interesting to see the additions to the records e.g. in one parish I was going through the priest did sums at the end of each year on how many people had left the parish (died/ moved away) vs. how many had joined the parish (born/ moved to). Also notes about a child being illegitimate, or an adult being baptised. Apart from that I have found siblings/ cousins i didn't know existed. It's certainly time consuming- especially if it's a big parish- but nice to find these little extras.

Needle in a haystack?

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