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Suicide

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭buzzinfly83


    That's great for you. I wouldn't have being overly religious I would have went to mass as a child but stopped as a teenager.
    I was tired I tried loads of things. If you told me that if I had walking up and down my local town with a footstool on my head would have help. I'd have given it a go. Somebody said give the church ago and I found it helped me.It wouldn't have being on my list.(I was open to any reasonable ideaa)
    Sometimes I go a lot or leave it go awhile, sometimes I pray, sometime I don't, sometimes I just sit there, have a chat. You don't go there just to say a load of prayers.
    I am not saying run off to your local church in the morning instead of your GP/councillor but it is an option for people.

    You sound like you have been through a rough time. I'm genuinely glad you got through it by any means neccessary. That's all that matters at the end of the day. If something is working for you then stick with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭newdriverlad


    You sound like you have been through a rough time. I'm genuinely glad you got through it by any means neccessary. That's all that matters at the end of the day. If something is working for you then stick with it.

    Sorry for coming across as a prick!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Sorry for coming across as a prick!

    You haven't!


  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭buzzinfly83


    Sorry for coming across as a prick!

    You didn't come across like that at all. You were just sharing your opinion on what worked for you. Your entitled to do that. We all want what helps people just have different ways of getting there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    I was 22 when he died.
    I'm not bipolar, although I would say I have a lot of unresolved issues. I experienced depression for a time, while he was still alive, but therapy helped and subsequently I made decisions that I think have kept me safe. I don't feel depressed at all thankfully, but i do have a big anxiety problem that I should maybe take medication for. I am weary of medication after the ups and downs my father had with them, but it did help me in the past so I would opt for medication if I thought it necessary.
    I would definitely consider myself at risk, for my whole life.
    I did admire and love him obviously, but I kept my bitterness in check in previous post as it's hard to know what to say on such a thread.
    Since you asked, I am still angry and resentful 20 years later, probably haven't got fully past that stage in the grieving process :rolleyes:
    He had talked to us, and left us individual letters, but that doesn't help.
    I have to say that in our case, his bipolar was so intense, and manic with medication at times, that it pretty much amounted to psychological abuse as we were growing up, so my resentment is very linked to that.
    We had hope though all along, we were offering to support him through drastic changes to his (and ours !) life at the end, but he wasn't convinced.
    A drastic change to my life (moving to Ireland) really helped me, doesn't solve all issues but in my case, it was a great decision.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Sorry to hear of your troubles mountainsandh.

    I don't think that there's that many people in Ireland who haven't been impacted by suicide in their family, friends or community in some way. One suicide that haunts me personally is a kid on my suburban street that I played with who took his life at 17.

    I also suspect that a lot of those on boards are sensitive and fragile (myself included at times) and need to take care of themselves and not worry too much about the comments and judgements of others. Sometimes a "digital detox" is good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    JupiterKid wrote: »

    I also suspect that a lot of those on boards are sensitive and fragile (myself included at times) and need to take care of themselves and not worry too much about the comments and judgements of others. Sometimes a "digital detox" is good.

    Yes, I really don't want anyone who's bipolar reading my account to feel worse and be applying that to their situation/family anyway, that's why I'd be reluctant to speak too much about my experience.
    That's just my family, my circumstances, it's just how life played out for us. We all have our baggage.

    My account may look bad above, but I feel strong and I love my life, I'm not tortured about it every day, it's just part of our family history now but it's not our present. My siblings and I all have lovely children and lives we're happy with.

    My Mum always reckoned that a new drug that came on the market at a certain time shouldn't have been prescribed to my Dad as she thinks he "reacted" to it badly and it triggered what happened, it's her opinion. (20 years ago)
    I wouldn't know anything about all the drugs.

    I often think it's an awful shame my Dad didn't get to come over to Ireland, he would have loved the scenery, the rivers for fishing, the beach... I think I'll head for a bit of beach combing with the kids today if the weather is not too atrocious :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Stonedpilot


    I'm sure people interpret the bible in their own way, mate. Again it is your belief that Jesus resides in us. That's ok but it's not every other persons belief and that's ok too.

    I can understand how some people can use their faith to get through hard times but it's not for everyone.

    Fair enough.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    I was really touched by what you said about your father mountainsandh.

    I have bipolar myself, I was diagnosed at a very early age after a suicide attempt. I can only speak for myself but having my family and friends talk to me about how they feel about my manic stages, unreservedly, has really helped me in the last few years. It helps a lot with the resentment that you talk about in your post. It's really hard for everybody involved when someone has bipolar, I often joke about it being easiest on me because when I'm manic very little affects me, I could walk out in front of a bus and not care and I could win the lotto and not bat an eyelid, it's everybody else who is affected at that time that is hit hard by it.

    I can't speak for your father, or anybody else, and I'm sorry if I overstep a mark here, but I really hope that in the future you let go of any guilt your holding on to. From personal experience, if i went manic tomorrow and decided to kill myself, which is a very real possibility everyday for me, there's very little, if anything, that could stop me. Regardless of the support from those around you, in those times of severe mania, you don't think of that, or who your hurting when you leave.

    Again I'm sorry if my post upsets you or is overstepping a mark but I hope that you can see the point of my post which is that bipolar is a selfish illness that often results in those around us feeling more pain then we do but that I'm sure your father tried to battle it as best he could, and I'm sure you gave him the best support you could too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    I had a friend just over from America and she couldn't believe how great it was to hear mental illness spoke about on the radio. She said in the states its never spoke of and totally hidden behind closed doors. So while there is room for improvement its not as bad here as it could be

    Pretty much every American tv show has one or multiple characters at some stage talk about seeing their therapist or show them doing it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    A very close friend of mine committed suicide in 2013.

    I sat beside a priest at the Wake and he was just a lovely man.

    I wasn't anyway religious at the time (a very lapsed Catholic)

    He told me that only God Almighty can judge the dead and not man.

    Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    I despise the term "commit" suicide. That implies that it is some sort of moral transgression or sin. It is not. It the final act of desperation of a very tormented person. There is still a huge stigma about suicide in this country and it needs to be dealt with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Robsweezie


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    I despise the term "commit" suicide. That implies that it is some sort of moral transgression or sin. It is not. It the final act of desperation of a very tormented person. There is still a huge stigma about suicide in this country and it needs to be dealt with.

    i think samaritans guidelines are against the use of ''commit'' when reporting suicide, as it implies criminality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,676 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I remember when I was a kid a cousin of mine committed suicide, her neighbour went to the funeral and then he killed himself.

    It's hard to know why people do these things.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,846 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    This post has been deleted.

    Well I'd only be a tad religious(probably a bit more than the average boards user) I know a few young enough people who'd be religious and when they admit this to people they can be written off or people basically roll their eyes at them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    A very close friend of mine committed suicide in 2013.

    I sat beside a priest at the Wake and he was just a lovely man.

    I wasn't anyway religious at the time (a very lapsed Catholic)

    He told me that only God Almighty can judge the dead and not man.

    Hate the Sin, not the Sinner.

    I am not religious. I don't go to church. I am not sure what I believe. But I miss God. I miss the sense that we are part of a greater mystery. I miss the belief that caring for others is the most important thing we can do.
    I hope our society will eventually return to some purer form of Christian belief system - not the Catholic Church man made poison - but something pure and kind and inclusive.
    We have become too harsh and cynical. I believe we miss the solace of Christianity but are too proud to admit it.
    Sorry for the lecture!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    I miss the belief that caring for others is the most important thing we can do.

    What has that got to do with religion? You don't need religion to be a good person or to tell you how to be.or to talk about your feelings or even just to talk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    What has that got to do with religion? You don't need religion to be a good person or to tell you how to be.or to talk about your feelings or even just to talk.

    Okay - i didn't know that


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 TheZenMonkey


    Robsweezie wrote: »
    i think samaritans guidelines are against the use of ''commit'' when reporting suicide, as it implies criminality.

    On our hotline we are also not allowed to use the word "commit". "Are you suicidal?" or "Are you planning to kill yourself/end your life" is what I say. "Commit" is so judgmental and yeah, also sounds criminal.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    On our hotline we are also not allowed to use the word "commit". "Are you suicidal?" or "Are you planning to kill yourself/end your life" is what I say. "Commit" is so judgmental and yeah, also sounds criminal.

    A phrase I've often heard is "done away with himself", I wish that phrase could be erased too


  • Registered Users Posts: 48 TheZenMonkey


    A phrase I've often heard is "done away with himself", I wish that phrase could be erased too

    That sounds positively Dickensian. Definitely not heard in the US much if at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭Tea-a-Maria


    When I was a child I remember my parents talking about suicide in hushed tones and using the phrase "chuir sé a lámh in a bhás féin", which would translate as "he put his hand in his own life". Probably a bit kinder to the poor individual than the phrase "commit"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    I was really touched by what you said about your father mountainsandh.

    I have bipolar myself, I was diagnosed at a very early age after a suicide attempt. I can only speak for myself but having my family and friends talk to me about how they feel about my manic stages, unreservedly, has really helped me in the last few years. It helps a lot with the resentment that you talk about in your post. It's really hard for everybody involved when someone has bipolar, I often joke about it being easiest on me because when I'm manic very little affects me, I could walk out in front of a bus and not care and I could win the lotto and not bat an eyelid, it's everybody else who is affected at that time that is hit hard by it.

    I can't speak for your father, or anybody else, and I'm sorry if I overstep a mark here, but I really hope that in the future you let go of any guilt your holding on to. From personal experience, if i went manic tomorrow and decided to kill myself, which is a very real possibility everyday for me, there's very little, if anything, that could stop me. Regardless of the support from those around you, in those times of severe mania, you don't think of that, or who your hurting when you leave.

    Again I'm sorry if my post upsets you or is overstepping a mark but I hope that you can see the point of my post which is that bipolar is a selfish illness that often results in those around us feeling more pain then we do but that I'm sure your father tried to battle it as best he could, and I'm sure you gave him the best support you could too.

    Thanks Lau, I don't mind at all and meant to reply earlier but I'm only back online now.
    You're right, talking about the illness is helpful I think within a family. My Dad died 20 years ago already, and he was sick long before that, and at that time in France, few people knew anything about bipolar disorders. We didn't either, we just lived with him and saw what happened when it happened without understanding. If we had known what to expect, and that what was happening was part and parcel of a bigger picture, it would definitely have helped us and him, and us with him.

    Because I experienced depression, I think I remember how when you're ill, you just see life through a prism that can be so far from reality, you don't necessarily see the pain you could be causing to others.
    Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful post, I'm fine, really. :)
    I'm lucky in a way that I'll know to seek help if I feel I need it.

    I hope things go well for you, that you manage the illness and live a good life. There are so many happy moments to enjoy.

    I do remember the torture of being inside the dark bubble, I don't think people who have not experienced the mental suffering can understand really, it's like the thread on OCD, you either have experienced it at least a bit and you get it, or (lucky for you) you haven't and it's unfathomable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭pheasant tail


    I remember when I was a kid a cousin of mine committed suicide, her neighbour went to the funeral and then he killed himself.

    It's hard to know why people do these things.

    I tried to kill myself 3 years ago. 5 days before that I had attended a funeral from a friend back home who had killed himself. I remember sitting in the church and I didn't feel sorry for him, but I actually felt jealous that he was gone and angry with myself for still being here and putting myself through this. I thought I was being selfish on myself. But yea, it doesn't take much when your in that frame of mind to set yourself off


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 RebelHeart1981


    I have been reading this thread wanting to say something but unable to (story of my life), Now however, I have had a drink so I may regret this tomorrow but none the less, what I say now is true.

    First, this thread reminds me of my friend. She was a good woman. Her fella took his own life. She devoted her life to Suicide Prevention. She worked voluntarily for it, she climbed mountains to raise funds to help people. She met a new guy, and then he went and took his own life too. I will never forget her heart wrenching lonesome messages to me in the middle of the night. I still get an awful pain in my heart thinking of her suffering. She then got sick herself and died. I literally cry as I type this because I cannot understand why she had to suffer so much for she was a good woman.

    I myself attempted suicide twice. It was my pain and hers that brought us together. I am unable to say anything, but I can write everything.....The first time I attempted suicide, I got home from hospital , I tried again straightaway the next night so they sectioned me. I was never so frightened in all my life in that place, I knew I was sad, not mad or bad so I done a runner straightaway the next morning. I spent my first and LAST night in one of them places.

    Anyway, I had everyone looking for me but I eventually managed to persuade them that THAT kind of place was NOT where I needed to be and then I vowed to myself that never again would I tell any of them if I was feeling any type of way for fear they would send me back there. I have done alright without them. I am still here. My only sadness is that, because of that experience I keep chit to myself and always will ) apart from times like now when I write it down).

    I don't really know what I am trying to say only that Suicide Prevention is so important and every time I read of someone taking their lives, I get an awful pain. I have read this thread and cried for the Mother of the three sons who started this thread. Its an awful tragedy. Even now I get trapped inside myself so I know why others do too. I went to a Doctor here in Dublin a year ago or so and asked her for help. She wrote me a letter for my local mental health team. I hand delivered it to their place...then nothing...........

    I rang many weeks later asking what the story was. The person taking to me said she had no idea where that letter was, she would look in to it and get back to me...she never did...and I gave up. It was so hard to ask for help only to see it was futile, I will not go to them again anyway.

    My point in adding to this thread is Suicide, it is such an important subject. The best of people are unable to communicate their sadness and it gives me an awful ache in my stomach to see them go the way they do. I really wish we had hindsight and I wish we had better mental health care.

    Thats all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    RebelHeart1981, it's good that you posted. It's good to see a few more "real" posts on boards sometimes. We all argue silly things all the time, and there's all the jokes comments on AH, but everyone's in the same boat when we're lonely or distressed, so there should be no embarrassment at the odd "real" post, they actually help others I bet.

    I have to say though, although the situation is still bad, I know of two "old fellows" who now talk about about their mental illness here, in my rural area. I don't think that would have been the case 10 years ago.
    They know I've experienced it myself (albeit years ago) so they opened up there maybe say, 2 years ago, and we talk about how they feel when I meet them, if it's hard coping, what medication they're on, or what doctor they went to, if they're going through a bad patch or not.

    I think the communities are changing for the better, it's an awful shame the system/care are not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Its the kind of experience RebelHeart had that worries me when considering asking for intervention with someone when they're mentally unstable. Sad to hear about that.

    I'm wondering if anyone's dealt with Pieta House? I have heard good things about them.


  • Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its the kind of experience RebelHeart had that worries me when considering asking for intervention with someone when they're mentally unstable. Sad to hear about that.

    I'm wondering if anyone's dealt with Pieta House? I have heard good things about them.

    First of all the best of luck with this Widdershins. It's a difficult situation to be in. I've been once only. My experience of it was a bit mixed. It is a house rather than a clinic style building. I waited in a lovely conservatory and was offered tea. My appointment was with a young woman who was very nice but treated the initial session very much as a fact finding one. Now I know it's important to have clients details however there are ways and means of doing this without compromising that very important connection that's required in order for this to be of benefit.

    My second appointment was with a different therapist at a different Pieta House location. That wasn't my decision. I didn't go. Instead I waited a bit and embarked on the long road of weekly psychotherapy. Pieta House do absolutely sterling work I don't doubt but for me my first session wasn't what I needed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,676 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I tried to kill myself 3 years ago. 5 days before that I had attended a funeral from a friend back home who had killed himself. I remember sitting in the church and I didn't feel sorry for him, but I actually felt jealous that he was gone and angry with myself for still being here and putting myself through this. I thought I was being selfish on myself. But yea, it doesn't take much when your in that frame of mind to set yourself off

    I can only hope there is more help available to people these days, the person I mentioned died 26 years ago, she was a first cousin of my fathers and back then it was all brushed under the carpet so to speak.

    But then that was the way with everything back then in this country as it turned out.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 unicio


    MagicIRL wrote: »
    Suicide is never, ever the answer. The pain it inflicts on everyone left behind is unimaginable.

    It is 100% perfectly normal and natural not to be OK and to not feel good about yourself from time to time. It happens to everyone. Even here on boards you'll find a monster of a thread with people from all walks of life discussing their own mental health.

    If you ever feel like suicide is the only answer then I implore you to talk to someone, anyone and seek help.

    https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland

    There is a great Churchill quote I like "When you're going through hell... keep going."


    Wouldn't you think that you are forcing someone to stay in horrible pain? and He/she shouldn't be living for Not inflicting pain on anyone besides them too.

    I would understand what you are pointing out. and your thoughts are completely right.

    But, I don't think your approach of words would help people in danger.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Was anybody listening to the Alan Shatter interview with Matt Cooper on TodayFM at 17:45?

    Extraordinary. Shatter always struck me as among the most conceited, charmless and arrogant of politicians (sharing the crown with Michael McDowell and Shane Ross), but Jesus you never know what goes on in a life (he talks about how he knew his mother was unwell but came home as a 14-year-old and his mother was lying on the kitchen floor next to the gas oven having taking her own life). I've a newfound respect for the man today.

    Alan Shatter interview with Matt Cooper

    So, so many families affected by suicide. At least people can now be more open about it. I remember a mother of a friend was found dead in a stream when we were growing up and it was very much a quick and private ceremony with very, very short conversations. No huge wake or loads of people calling to the home, even though this lady left young children to be raised alone by her husband. She must have only been about 35 then. It's as if people feel threatened by a suicide and want to keep it away as a form of self-preservation. We still have a long way to go, but at least attitudes are changing because people like Alan Shatter will be open about it. Shane McEntee's
    suicide at 56 years of age
    in particular shocked so many middle-aged people who might have thought suicide happened to a younger age group. When it happens to somebody in your own social group especially it really, really frightens people about their own mortality. A huge dark cloud on everybody. It takes courage to face up to it.

    Also I wholeheartedly agree with all the people in this thread who say we shouldn't say "commit suicide". This has zero to do with "pc" or anything that shallow. The "commit" description came precisely because suicide was a crime in state and church law. When you took your own life, you "committed" a crime. It was only decriminalised in Ireland as recently as 1993. Families are going through enough without that added stigma. Words matter, particularly on a topic like this which goes to the heart of our existence and the meaning we give life. In small communities such as exist across Ireland words used to describe the actions of loved ones matter even more. Why people want to be offensive when sensitivity costs absolutely nothing has always baffled me.
    In England, suicides were legally criminal if of age and sane, but not if judged to have been mentally deranged. The criminal ones were mutilated by stake and given degrading burial in highways until 1823.(Etymology of suicide )


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,116 ✭✭✭job seeker


    MagicIRL wrote: »
    Suicide is never, ever the answer. The pain it inflicts on everyone left behind is unimaginable.

    It is 100% perfectly normal and natural not to be OK and to not feel good about yourself from time to time. It happens to everyone. Even here on boards you'll find a monster of a thread with people from all walks of life discussing their own mental health.

    If you ever feel like suicide is the only answer then I implore you to talk to someone, anyone and seek help.

    https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland

    There is a great Churchill quote I like "When you're going through hell... keep going."

    I emailed (purely because I didn't feel confident enough to call) samaritans today for the first time in my life! I felt that things got to the worst stage for myself than they ever have. However I found that samaritans was a great benefit. fantastic service which I will continue to use. :) I'd recommend this service to anyone who needs too talk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭bernard0368


    Its the kind of experience RebelHeart had that worries me when considering asking for intervention with someone when they're mentally unstable.

    I can only speak for myself, As I mentioned in an earlier post my sons friends didn't want to betray his thrust. So they never told us he had tried to kill himself a few times before we came aware of his mental state.
    I wished they had stood up and said something, I know a few of them find it very hard to cope with still today.

    I appreciate its hard to get involved ring the likes of Pieta they will help advise you what can be done.

    Sometimes all you have to do is ask "Are you ok?"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh



    Also I wholeheartedly agree with all the people in this thread who say we shouldn't say "commit suicide". This has zero to do with "pc" or anything that shallow. The "commit" description came precisely because suicide was a crime in state and church law. When you took your own life, you "committed" a crime. It was only decriminalised in Ireland as recently as 1993. Families are going through enough without that added stigma. Words matter, particularly on a topic like this which goes to the heart of our existence and the meaning we give life. In small communities such as exist across Ireland words used to describe the actions of loved ones matter even more. Why people want to be offensive when sensitivity costs absolutely nothing has always baffled me.

    Maybe you're right. I think I'll avoid using that in the future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,927 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    First time in a long time that I'm in the pub drinking cause I feel down. Can't find love at all, all my mates are in relationships now and I can't find anything. I have tried Tinder but have had no avail

    I cleaned up my image, stated working out seriously and general made a better of myself and still im alone


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭Spider Web


    PTH, I know this might seem trite and cliched but these things resonate for a reason - something I think is valuable advice is you need to love yourself before finding love with someone else. People who have self confidence and are content in themselves and are thus less self conscious tend not to find it difficult to embark upon relationships. And people who feel it's urgent to be in a relationship tend to have less self confidence.

    Keep looking for that someone, but try to focus on liking you and making you happy too, rather than just pouring all that focus into meeting someone.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In today's news:

    Men account for almost 80% of suicides recorded in state

    Very interestingly, the age group with the highest suicide rate is not young men but middle-aged men between 45 and 54 years old:
    .... The highest rates of suicide were among 45-54-year-olds.... Assistant national director for NOSP John Meehan said the links between the 45-54 age group and suicide are “multifaceted”. “One of them would be the squeezed middle, a lot of those within that category would have businesses that maybe were hit by the recession,” he told The Irish Times. “Stigma is another factor, particularly men actually not attending services. I’m in that age category and a lot of people in that group try and deal with things themselves.
    “Prior to the boom, the age range [with the highest suicide rates] was from 18 to 24, that’s now moved up. We have to delve into the evidence to see what the other precipitating factors are.”

    The National Self-Harm Registry Ireland recorded 11,485 presentations to hospital due to self-harm involving 8,909 individuals last year, which is in line with figures for 2015. There was a 19 per cent increase between 2007 and 2012 in the self-harm rate in Ireland, with the largest increase seen among men.

    I would certainly have expected it to be younger men rather than men of that sort of age who would be most likely to take their own lives. I definitely find it even more disturbing when people with such a longer experience of life cannot see a way out. You can't blame youth and inexperience for such suicides.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    In today's news:

    Men account for almost 80% of suicides recorded in state

    Very interestingly, the age group with the highest suicide rate is not young men but middle-aged men between 45 and 54 years old:






    I would certainly have expected it to be younger men rather than men of that sort of age who would be most likely to take their own lives. I definitely find it even more disturbing when people with such a longer experience of life cannot see a way out. You can't blame youth and inexperience for such suicides.

    I read that as well. It has changed over the last ten years. Definitely the highest percentage used to be younger men now it's the 45-54 year old age group. Very concerning alright.

    Is it because of the loss of jobs during the recession and the struggles involved in getting back to work at that age.

    I'm female but fall into that age group and did find it very difficult to get a job for a good while. Eventually got one but it's not easy, a lot of employers see you as too old. :mad:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Bigbagofcans


    A few posts are circulating my Facebook newsfeed with the news of a young woman's suicide at the weekend.
    Her name was Clara and she was only 22.

    These posts are garnering thousands of likes and shares.
    I don't think I've ever seen such attention brought to one individual suicide case in our country (bar someone high profile).

    Fair play to her family and friends for sharing their grief and hopefully encouraging others to open up to loved ones about their suffering.

    There's 'A Night For Clara' happening in the Button Factory, Dublin this Saturday to raise money for Pieta House.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    You know what'll happen with these posts ? The youngsters who look at them will only read the first part, the eulogy, with its beautiful photo and sad words of praise for the girl, and it's terrible to say, but it will glorify Clara's passing somewhat in their minds.

    The second part would have sufficed, IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Bambi985


    Can we stop with the banal platitudes though? If I hear "it's OK not to be OK" or "life is pain" or "we all have our struggles" or "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" one more time, I swear to god. Who have they ever helped?Who has been enlightened or inspired by these Instagrammable quotes? To me, they suggest depression and suicidal ideation are things that can be defeated by pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, copping yourself on, letting yourself just suffer through like everyone else does because hey, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, this too shall pass, you'll be grand like. This is just life!

    No, we don't all struggle like someone who decides to end their own life and yes, it's ok to feel sh1t from time to time but that's, for the vast majority of cases, not at all what we're talking about here. What about someone who doesn't want to call the Samaritans because they have no words for the darkness they're experiencing and they're too trapped in pain and numbness to get out of bed, let alone to take themselves to the doctor and spent weeks waiting for a referral to someone who probably won't get it anyway and to run the risk of being everything from a pain in the arse to an "attention seeker" or a big massive burden if they confide in the wrong person - because yes, that happens all the time - or any number of other possibilities that raise their ugly heads when someone decides to do the "brave" thing and seek help.

    Most people who are contemplating suicide in a very real sense neither have the self-esteem or the energy or the wherewithal to take logical, practical steps to fix themselves and deal with the clusterfcuk that is the Irish health services and the ridiculous stigma that STILL exists around mental health in Ireland, no matter how many Facebook eulogies or Darkness into Light runs the world around us seems to want to do.


  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bambi985 wrote: »
    Can we stop with the banal platitudes though? If I hear "it's OK not to be OK" or "life is pain" or "we all have our struggles" or "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" one more time, I swear to god. Who have they ever helped?Who has been enlightened or inspired by these Instagrammable quotes? To me, they suggest depression and suicidal ideation are things that can be defeated by pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, copping yourself on, letting yourself just suffer through like everyone else does because hey, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, this too shall pass, you'll be grand like. This is just life!

    No, we don't all struggle like someone who decides to end their own life and yes, it's ok to feel sh1t from time to time but that's, for the vast majority of cases, not at all what we're talking about here. What about someone who doesn't want to call the Samaritans because they have no words for the darkness they're experiencing and they're too trapped in pain and numbness to get out of bed, let alone to take themselves to the doctor and spent weeks waiting for a referral to someone who probably won't get it anyway and to run the risk of being everything from a pain in the arse to an "attention seeker" or a big massive burden if they confide in the wrong person - because yes, that happens all the time - or any number of other possibilities that raise their ugly heads when someone decides to do the "brave" thing and seek help.

    Most people who are contemplating suicide in a very real sense neither have the self-esteem or the energy or the wherewithal to take logical, practical steps to fix themselves and deal with the clusterfcuk that is the Irish health services and the ridiculous stigma that STILL exists around mental health in Ireland, no matter how many Facebook eulogies or Darkness into Light runs the world around us seems to want to do.
    Double thanks.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Bambi985 wrote: »
    Can we stop with the banal platitudes though? If I hear "it's OK not to be OK" or "life is pain" or "we all have our struggles" or "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" one more time, I swear to god. Who have they ever helped?Who has been enlightened or inspired by these Instagrammable quotes? To me, they suggest depression and suicidal ideation are things that can be defeated by pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, copping yourself on, letting yourself just suffer through like everyone else does because hey, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, this too shall pass, you'll be grand like. This is just life!

    No, we don't all struggle like someone who decides to end their own life and yes, it's ok to feel sh1t from time to time but that's, for the vast majority of cases, not at all what we're talking about here. What about someone who doesn't want to call the Samaritans because they have no words for the darkness they're experiencing and they're too trapped in pain and numbness to get out of bed, let alone to take themselves to the doctor and spent weeks waiting for a referral to someone who probably won't get it anyway and to run the risk of being everything from a pain in the arse to an "attention seeker" or a big massive burden if they confide in the wrong person - because yes, that happens all the time - or any number of other possibilities that raise their ugly heads when someone decides to do the "brave" thing and seek help.

    Most people who are contemplating suicide in a very real sense neither have the self-esteem or the energy or the wherewithal to take logical, practical steps to fix themselves and deal with the clusterfcuk that is the Irish health services and the ridiculous stigma that STILL exists around mental health in Ireland, no matter how many Facebook eulogies or Darkness into Light runs the world around us seems to want to do.

    I get where you're coming from about the platitudes but I don't agree with you on the other things. The aim of Samaritans and Pieta House etc. are to prevent people getting to that dark place where they can't come back from and they do it very well.

    I don't think there's any harm in that being advertised and out there so people know how to get in contact with them before things get bad.

    Same goes for your doctor and other services although I agree with you also on our mental health services, they are very sorely lacking. Especially when it's outside "office" hours which is when people are usually at their worst.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In Donegal some years ago there was also a cluster of suicides (among girls, if I recall) in the one area, as if one suicide puts the idea into the heads of people as a real alternative. It really is a destructive presence in our society.

    The inquiry into one of these suicides is covered in today's paper. The girl's name was Shannon Gallagher, she was 15 years old and she took her life a few weeks after her 13-year-old sister Erin took her own life. She took her life in the home of foster carers as she wasn't getting on with her mother after her sister's death. How on earth her mother can get over losing two beautiful young lives is beyond me. Poor woman.

    Shannon Gallagher (15) wrapped Christmas presents before she died, inquest told
    A young girl wrapped her Christmas presents and wrote a note to her mother just a short time before being found dead by suicide at a foster home in Co Donegal.

    Shannon Gallagher was aged 15 when she died on December 12th, 2012, just weeks after her younger sister Erin (13) also took her own life. The inquest of her sister in 2016 heard concerns that Erin was being bullied online and in school.

    Details of Shannon’s last days were given at an inquest into her death in Letterkenny on Wednesday.

    Among those at the inquest were Shannon’s mother Lorraine, grandfather John as well as foster parents Gerard and Karen Doherty in whose home she died.

    Mr and Mrs Doherty gave details of finding Shannon dead at their home at Stranamuck, Castlefin at about 11.40pm.

    The inquest was told that Shannon had agreed to move in with a foster family as herself and her mother had been arguing a lot following her sister’s death. Both agreed that it would give them some time and space apart to help each other.

    Normal teenager

    Karen Doherty told the inquest how she had found Shannon to be a normal teenager who mixed well with her family from when she arrived on November 30th. She recalled how she often spoke about her late sister and how important it was not to be influenced by other people.

    She said on the day she died, Shannon had been viewing phone videos of Erin but showed no signs of being unhappy. They had been wrapping presents and Shannon went back down to her bedroom at about 10.30pm.

    Mrs Doherty went to Shannon’s room to see if she would like a cup of tea but her light was off and the key was missing from the door.

    She phoned Shannon but could not get an answer and after finding another key, Shannon was found in her room lifeless.

    All agencies who gave evidence reiterated that the Doherty family had been excellent foster parents for Shannon during the time she spent at their home.

    Solicitor for Shannon’s mother Lorraine, Patsy Gallagher, asked the Dohertys if they had been told by social workers that Shannon had tried to self-harm which resulted in her being hospitalised.

    Previous self-harm

    Mr and Mrs Doherty said they could not recall being told that Shannon had previously tried to self-harm on October 23rd, four days before her sister Erin died on October 27th. Ms Doherty said there was no indication that Shannon had any inclination to take her own life.

    However social worker Karen McCormack said her recollection was that the Dohertys had been told there had been incidents of self-harm but did not specify the date.

    “Based on the information that the foster carers were relaying and my meetings and home visits and keeping a steady eye on the case, we definitely had no indication that Shannon would do what she did,” she said.

    Psychiatrist Dr Don McDwyer also confirmed that he had five consultation sessions with Shannon before her death but said her moods and demeanour were improving when she went into foster care.

    Mr Emlyn Hughes, principal social worker with the Tusla , said they were fully aware that Shannon was a high risk and that risk was reflected in their actions. He said that normally a child in foster care would receive one visit in the first month. He said the foster carer was in the house five times in the 12 days she was in foster care.

    He added “ It really was a unique response to a unique situation. I have no shadow of doubt that while we did not go into details they would have been aware of the risk that this child would have needed monitoring above and beyond the norm.”

    The jury of six men and six women found unanimously that Shannon had died as a result of suicide.

    The jury foreperson said: “We were a bit shocked that only one visit required by Tusla to children in foster care within the first month. We feel that one is not enough,” she said.

    Coroner Dr Denis McCauley said: “This is a dreadful case and we know Lorraine lost both Erin and Shannon and I don’t think any one us can comprehend that dreadful tragedy. We saw in this case that this inter-agency action tried their best but the result was not what we were hoping for,” he said.

    He urged any young people who are feeling down to speak to a friend, an adult or a teacher .

    *If you have been affected by anything in this article, help and support is available from the Samaritans on freephone 116123, or email jo@samaritans.org ot phone Childline on 1800-666666


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    pilly wrote: »
    I read that as well. It has changed over the last ten years. Definitely the highest percentage used to be younger men now it's the 45-54 year old age group. Very concerning alright.
    The "joke" is that previously that particular age group of men were among the most content and least likely to commit suicide. Trends were towards young men and very old men(the former being higher).

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Funeral hears teen Jack Dinan’s son born a day after body found

    So, so sad. Once again it's never just the person who takes his life who suffers.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Words fail me. Christ alfúckingmighty. 11 years of age. 11.

    Girl (11) posted on Instagram about her intentions to die Inquest hears
    Milly Tuomey from Templeogue, Dublin died on January 4th last year


    An 11-year-old girl who was unhappy with her physical appearance posted on her Instagram account that she intended to die, an inquest in Dublin has heard.
    Coroner Dr Myra Cullinane returned a verdict of suicide at the inquest into the death of Milly Tuomey from Templeogue, Dublin, who died on January 4th last year.
    “Milly was loving and greatly loved, fit, healthy, connected, engaged and talented,” her parents Fiona and Tim Tuomey said in a statement after the inquest.
    When we discovered out of the blue that our child had told her friends on Instagram that she had chosen the day she would die, we couldn’t believe it. We did not know what to do,” they said.
    Dublin Coroner’s Court heard that on November 3rd, 2015, Milly posted on Instagram to hundreds of friends about her intention to die on a certain date. Her parents were alerted by her elder sister and her school.
    They took Milly to see their GP and during this visit Milly expressed a death wish. She spoke about thoughts of self-harm and said she had been unhappy with her physical appearance for a number of years. The GP recommended she see a clinical psychologist at An Cuan, a private counselling and psychotherapy clinic.
    The Tuomeys made an appointment but the psychologist was no longer taking patients. Milly was assigned to an art therapist, who was not qualified to make clinical assessments, the inquest heard.
    The child began a series of weekly appointments on November 24th, 2015, at which she was encouraged to explore her emotions through verbal and visual means.
    After Milly’s first visit, the therapist advised Mrs Tuomey to make an appointment with the HSE’s Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services. An appointment was made for January 30th, 2016, but this was brought forward after Mrs Twomey found a “suicide diary” along with medication indicating an attempt at self harm under her daughter’s bed.
    “She’d cut herself and written in biro on herself, ‘beautiful girls don’t eat’,”
    Mrs Tuomey told the inquest. “We were terrified. We had no experience of this and no idea what to do.”
    The family was advised to go to their local hospital emergency department if any concerns arose over Christmas or out of hours.
    The court heard that on January 1st, 2016, the family had dinner together and watched a film. That evening, Milly declared she was bored and left the room. She was found moments later in a critical condition and emergency services were called. She was taken to Our Lady’s Children’s Hospital where she died on January 4th.
    Psychiatrist Dr Antoinette D’Alton told the inquest that Irish children as young as seven have expressed suicidal ideation.
    “Years ago this would have been unimaginable. Now, suicidal ideation is increasing in children as young as seven. There is a care pathway but it is under-resourced,”
    Dr D’Alton said.
    Ireland currently ranks fifth in Europe in cases of suicide in the 10-14 age group and the past decade has seen a “step-by-step increase” in instances of non-fatal self-harm among 10 to 14-year-olds, according to director of research at the National Suicide Research Foundation, Prof Ella Arensman.
    The coroner commended the Tuomeys for their decision to donate their daughter’s organs. Dr Cullinane noted comments from experts who stated further resources were required for child and adolescent mental health services and recommended the provision of information to support parents and families while they waited to be seen by services.
    In their statement, the family said they discovered there are no clinical protocols for when a child has a mental health crisis. “In 21st-century Ireland this is simply not acceptable.”
    They had hopes and dreams for their daughter, and Milly had hopes and dreams for herself, they said. In an excerpt from her diary, Milly wrote how she hoped to be a “famous doctor”, get married and have children.
    “When I am 23 I would like to have my first baby and when I’m 24 my second baby. If I have two girls I want to call them Vanessa and Grace Tuomey,” she wrote.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,281 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    TALK TALK TALK .
    Who truly wants to go out of their way to help someone.
    It's easy afterwards to claim they would have helped.

    Does not take much to talk, it can be just a simple hello or even simple conversation about the weather that can turn anyone around and get them started.

    ******



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Words fail me. Christ alfúckingmighty. 11 years of age. 11.


    That is shocking.


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