Suicide

12-09-2017 11:29am #1

Just reading this this morning, and this 31-year-old man is the third son of the same family to take his life in the past 6 years. Poor, poor people. His brother Kieran took his own life at 24, and his other brother, Niall, took his life at 19 (a 19-year-old first cousin, Christopher, also took his life). And as is mostly the case in Ireland they were men.

Family pay tribute after losing 3rd son to suicide in 6 years

Ireland has one of the highest teenage suicide rates in the EU

34 suicides in three years in one Cork town

Suicide rate among traveller men is seven times higher

New figures show young men are at greater risk of suicide:

The National Suicide Research Foundation’s Annual Report shows that overall, 375 males and 76 females had died by suicide in 2015.
Rates of male suicide stayed much higher than female rates across all age brackets – the group with the highest rate of suicide were males aged 25-34 and 45-54.... the rate of suicide amongst the 25-34 age bracket for 2015 has increased compared to 2014.
In 2014 there were 19.5 cases of suicide per 100,000 population – that figure rose to 24.2 last year.

In Donegal some years ago there was also a cluster of suicides (among girls, if I recall) in the one area, as if one suicide puts the idea into the heads of people as a real alternative. It really is a destructive presence in our society.

coffee_cake · 12-09-2017 11:36am

I read that one of them was actually in the hosp looking for help and ended up leaving again. Shocking and sad.

tayto lover · 12-09-2017 11:39am

bluewolf wrote: »

I read that one of them was actually in the hosp looking for help and ended up leaving again. Shocking and sad.

A bit like the woman in Wexford? a few years ago who sought help at the weekend but there were no HSE staff working. She then went and drowned herself and her two children.

When will the Health professionals or those in charge realise that mental health issues can occur seven days a week.

seamus · 12-09-2017 11:40am

Deleted User wrote: »

In Donegal some years ago there was also a cluster of suicides (among girls, if I recall) in the one area, as if one suicide puts the idea into the heads of people as a real alternative.

It does, it's a well-known phenomenon. Which is why the media have a code of practice where they try to avoid calling suicides for what they are or over-eulogising the deceased.

Ultimately it comes down to mental health, the awareness and provision of same. Why it affects men more than women may be biological, may be sociological, or may be a bit of both.

Mental health issues are well documented to be hereditary, so while it's incredibly tragic that a family would lose 3 brothers to suicide, it's also not that surprising.

The suicide of a loved one can often trigger the individual into the depressive spiral which leads to suicide. Usually this requires them to have been struggling with mental health for a while, though it can also be quite sudden.

Chester Bennington would be a high-profile example of someone who found himself locked into the death spiral after the suicide of a close friend, and just couldn't pull himself out of it again.

Grayson · 12-09-2017 11:50am

seamus wrote: »

It does, it's a well-known phenomenon. Which is why the media have a code of practice where they try to avoid calling suicides for what they are or over-eulogising the deceased.

The same thing happens with Terrorist attacks. One attack is more likely to spawn more. And even the language used can make it more likely. Experts always ask the press to never use the phrase "lone wolf" as it glamorises them.

As a kid there was a cluster of suicides around where I lived. When it happens it almost makes it more acceptable to people who are in the same mindset. Our mental health services have a lot to be desired but it is a hell of a lot better than it was 20 years ago. We've leaped forward but we still have a hell of a lot to do.

I think it's something like 1 in 4 people will experience anxiety or depression. Although most won't commit suicide we still need more services and more education to help deal with this.
When i was in school 20 years ago there was nothing about this. I went to a religious school that taught that it was a sin and I think that was supposed to be enough to stop people. I hope it's moved on from that and if not, it should.

one armed dwarf · 12-09-2017 11:51am

The phenomenon of suicide-clustering is really scary to me. Heard it described as being like given 'permission' to take one's life. Horrifying.

Your Face · 12-09-2017 12:09pm

A lot of work to be done.

johnnyskeleton · 12-09-2017 12:25pm

Theres an old addage that in China people go to the doctor when they are well so that they stay well, rather than only going when they actually get sick.

Whether it is true or not, prevention is definitely better than cure.

If I ruled the world, I would make going to a therapist for a check up be as normal as going to a dentist or doctor for a check up.

People should stop thinking of mental illnesses as something that other people were born with and they dont have, and start thinking of it like any other health issue that you have to guard against.

screamer · 12-09-2017 12:35pm

The problem with treatment for urgent mental health issues, is that there is no quick fix. If you break an arm or leg, you go and get it patched up, there's ways to treat the pain straight away. There's no such help for mental health, and often people are in such distress when they reach that tipping point, that the pain is just too much. It's awful and tragic at the same time. I also know of families that have literally been decimated by suicide. Mental health is still an area that has a lot of stigma around it, and TBH, I think it always will unfortunately. I even know of people who suffer with depression on an on going basis, but daren't even tell their boss, as they feel they'd be "labelled" or "tainted" in terms of promotions etc in the company, and don't want to be gossiped about and laughed at by co-workers. We need to do much more to not just address but to treat mental health issues, and make services available out of hours for when desperate people need life saving help, but sadly, often can't get it.

dancingqueen · 12-09-2017 12:40pm

I went to school with a chap that later commit suicide, after his brother did the same. This was after their father died from a long term illness. I am from the midlands and could count at least 10 people I've known, all men, that commit suicide. Ireland is rampant with it. We are doing something very wrong, even with all this awareness, mental health still has a huge stigma.

Bigbagofcans · 12-09-2017 12:47pm

Grayson wrote: »

I think it's something like 1 in 4 people will experience anxiety or depression. Although most won't commit suicide we still need more services and more education to help deal with this.
When i was in school 20 years ago there was nothing about this. I went to a religious school that taught that it was a sin and I think that was supposed to be enough to stop people. I hope it's moved on from that and if not, it should.

Statistics always seem to give figures like 1 in 4 will experience anxiety or depression in their lives.
From experience with family and friends I'd put it as high as 3 in 4 people will go through depression and/or anxiety.

Mental health/Mindfulness/Guidance in Life etc should be a core subject in school I think.
I think we only got one hour of it in a religion class in my whole 5 years in secondary school. Shameful.

one armed dwarf · 12-09-2017 1:36pm

screamer wrote: »

The problem with treatment for urgent mental health issues, is that there is no quick fix. If you break an arm or leg, you go and get it patched up, there's ways to treat the pain straight away. There's no such help for mental health, and often people are in such distress when they reach that tipping point, that the pain is just too much. It's awful and tragic at the same time. I also know of families that have literally been decimated by suicide. Mental health is still an area that has a lot of stigma around it, and TBH, I think it always will unfortunately. I even know of people who suffer with depression on an on going basis, but daren't even tell their boss, as they feel they'd be "labelled" or "tainted" in terms of promotions etc in the company, and don't want to be gossiped about and laughed at by co-workers. We need to do much more to not just address but to treat mental health issues, and make services available out of hours for when desperate people need life saving help, but sadly, often can't get it.

Tbf there are things like benzos which take the anxiety off a bit in bad situations and ways to intervene when someone is feeling really awful. But it's not something you can do for someone when they're not forthcoming about their problems and their mind is such a chaotic fog that ending their lives seems the best choice available.

BorneTobyWilde · 12-09-2017 1:38pm

Sometimes it's the only answer .

MagicIRL · 12-09-2017 1:43pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Sometimes it's the only answer .

Suicide is never, ever the answer. The pain it inflicts on everyone left behind is unimaginable.

It is 100% perfectly normal and natural not to be OK and to not feel good about yourself from time to time. It happens to everyone. Even here on boards you'll find a monster of a thread with people from all walks of life discussing their own mental health.

If you ever feel like suicide is the only answer then I implore you to talk to someone, anyone and seek help.

https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland

There is a great Churchill quote I like "When you're going through hell... keep going."

BorneTobyWilde · 12-09-2017 1:50pm

MagicIRL wrote: »

Suicide is never, ever the answer. The pain it inflicts on everyone left behind is unimaginable.

It is 100% perfectly normal and natural not to be OK and to not feel good about yourself from time to time. It happens to everyone. Even here on boards you'll find a monster of a thread with people from all walks of life discussing their own mental health.

If you ever feel like suicide is the only answer then I implore you to talk to someone, anyone and seek help.

https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland

There is a great Churchill quote I like "When you're going through hell... keep going."

TALK TALK TALK .
Who truly wants to go out of their way to help someone.
It's easy afterwards to claim they would have helped.

MagicIRL · 12-09-2017 1:53pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

TALK TALK TALK .

You've hit the nail on the head there.

Once you talk about it, once you realise it's not just you, once you realise you're not the first and not the last, once you realise you are no different than millions of other people on this big blue ball then you begin to feel better about yourself and can work through your predicament.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of the muck you're peddling.

Mrs OBumble · 12-09-2017 1:58pm

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

Mental health/Mindfulness/Guidance in Life etc should be a core subject in school I think.

Agree re awareness of both the need to promote mental health, and awareness of mental illnesses and the need to seek treatment if you or a loved one have symptoms.

But mindfulness /meditation is a bit of a mine-field. In people with some mental illnesses, mindfulness sessions can trigger self-harming behaviours, including the ultimate one. So it needs to be optional and led by suitably qualified people who can recognise and assist people who are distressed by it.

I don't use the S-word, because every time it's used, it becomes that bit more normal.

Assetbacked · 12-09-2017 2:02pm

The way society views men needs to be looked at as suicide is so much more of a male problem than female problem in Ireland. The difference in rates is shocking.

http://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

Hammer89 · 12-09-2017 2:18pm

I started a thread last year asking if Ireland really had an obesity problem or an unhappiness problem, with those people turning to food to soothe and suppress emotions, and I think our suicide rates support that theory. We're a nation of very sad, very stressed-out people.

BillyBobBS · 12-09-2017 2:18pm

Knew a guy, two kids, married, great house, great job, life of the party, played sports etc.. on the outside his life was great. His wife came home with the kids one Saturday after collecting them from football to find him dead, hung himself.

How someone carries themselves to the world means nothing, they could be lost on the inside and you'd never know it.

After i heard what he did i pick up the phone at least once a week and ring around my friends just to say hello and we all make an effort to play pitch and putt once a month at least. I don't know if that alone would make a difference to any of us but i'd like to think it does.

sashafierce · 12-09-2017 2:34pm

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ChikiChiki · 12-09-2017 3:14pm

More awareness needs to be targetted around the pain suffered by those left behind. Its unimaginable and something i will never recover from.

jacksie66 · 12-09-2017 3:19pm

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sashafierce · 12-09-2017 3:28pm

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freshpopcorn · 12-09-2017 4:01pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If I ruled the world, I would make going to a therapist for a check up be as normal as going to a dentist or doctor for a check up.

The thing is tough is for a lot of people I know they don't go to the doctor/dentist until they are in a lot of pain and a lot wouldn't see a doctor/dentist for years.

7 Seconds... · 12-09-2017 4:11pm

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.” David L. Conroy

mzungu · 12-09-2017 4:30pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

The way society views men needs to be looked at as suicide is so much more of a male problem than female problem in Ireland. The difference in rates is shocking.

http://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

Rates of women dying by suicide are rising fast. So it is an issue for both men and women.

mzungu · 12-09-2017 4:33pm

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I thought they would have been open about it in the US? One in six Americans take anti-depressants. I am not saying you are wrong or anything, I just find it strange that a country that pops pills like candy would shy away from having mental health issues in the media.

Dyr · 12-09-2017 4:37pm

One of my relatives has tried to top himself about three times in the last few months,

winds up in hospital each time, he should be committed but they refuse to because they say its an addiction issue rather than mental disorder so he's released to have another go even though he's completely radio rental at this stage

Thats the irish system

one armed dwarf · 12-09-2017 4:42pm

Regarding the US it seems to me they're a bit too liberal with the meds. Met a few from San Francisco who would take Zanax before going on a tinder date, seemed excessive.

valoren · 12-09-2017 4:54pm

To be blunt, I've thought about committing suicide in recent months. I would never do it but I certainly wouldn't be arrogant enough to say I'm strong minded enough to stop it from ever happening. A redundancy, a criminal conviction or something along those lines could possibly have the potential to deeply affect me.

I even have it all planned out in my head. I would walk into the sea, we live near the beach, very early in the morning, fully clothed and just drown myself.

I think in a period of mental fragility I might just be capable of going through with that but then I think of the consequences, I have a wife and daughter, and like snapping my fingers the thoughts vanish. It's not that I'm depressed, it's more fantastical thoughts of what if, curiosity of what would happen. It's hard to describe but my guess is that it's that control someone has, the choice of being able to actually kill yourself is that which overwhelms someone and spurs them to turn that thinking into actual doing.

It's not that I am unhappy. I'm not. But there are times when things become so stressful that your mind thinks such extreme thoughts and I hope I'm smart enough to think that if they become pervasive and frequent, or if something happened to trigger those thoughts that I would ask for help. Personally, I would be embarrassed to say that to anyone. Maybe it's the need in men to not show weakness that prevents that, that it allows that process to follow through without support.

Suicide

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