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One sided relationship?

  • 01-08-2020 1:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 40


    I have been going out with my partner for close to 7 years. We are both separated and have children from our ex partner and we live apart but nearby.

    He is a very hands on dad and has his children for approx 50% of the time. However I feel excluded from his life on these days and often he would not even make contact during these days, I would be lucky to get a phonecall or a text returned. I have my own children for the majority of the week and organise their time with their other parent to coincide with my partners free time so that we have time together. We enjoy our time alone and have a lot in common and there is very much a spark between us.

    I include him in all parts of my life, not just the days I dont have kids and I really wish this would be reciprocated but it isnt. This means that every second weekend when he has his children I do not get to see him at all. Even if I am on my own for the entire weekend I would not get a call to invite me up for dinner etc, where as when I know he is coming home from work to an empty house I will always send him a text and invite him up for dinner with me and my kids.

    Tonight I feel very hurt by one such example of this, and I would really love to hear peoples opinions. I will give a brief synopsis of the week. (Neither of us were working this week)

    Saturday: We had the day to ourselves and we did what we both enjoy which is to go to the sea for a swim.

    Sunday: We had the day to ourselves and I cooked a lunch for some mutual friends.

    Monday: I had my children, he didnt have his. I was planning a swim in the evening with my kids followed by a meal with one of my family so invited him along, picked him up, and dropped him home afterwards.

    Tuesday: We both had our kids. He brought them on a day trip to visit a member of his family (who I know and get on well with), went swimming etc. I wasnt invited.

    Wednesday: He had his kids until tea time. I had mine and was planning to bring them swimming. I asked him along and we planned to leave at a time that suited him after his kids left. I collected him and dropped him home afterwards.

    Thursday: we had the day to ourselves and went swimming in the evening.

    Today, Friday: we both had our kids. I texted him in the evening to ask if he was going swimming and got a reply at 11pm to say that yes he had gone swimming.

    So basically I feel excluded and hurt and dont understand why he couldnt have included me or my kids since we had invited him along twice this week.

    He doesn't seem to see my point of view at all. Am I being unreasonable to be upset? This is really only one example of the one-sideness of our relationship but it pretty much sums it up. Sorry for the long post.


«1

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    if you dont live with someone then i think days apart are sort of fair game not to be keeping totally in contact tbh

    and if hes with his kids then i think that is a fair priority

    seven years in and not living together is an important background piece of info here i think.

    have ye had serious and thorough discussions about what this relationship is? if its something that fits between the gaps of ye parenting two sets of kids totally separately then i cant see much space left if im honest


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    if you dont live with someone then i think days apart are sort of fair game not to be keeping totally in contact tbh

    and if hes with his kids then i think that is a fair priority

    seven years in and not living together is an important background piece of info here i think.

    have ye had serious and thorough discussions about what this relationship is? if its something that fits between the gaps of ye parenting two sets of kids totally separately then i cant see much space left if im honest

    He did bring up living together about a year or so ago but to be honest we are not in a good enough financial situation to be able to afford a house for all of us (5 kids in total). Plus I fear the relationship wouldnt stand the test of taking on each others kids. I've seen it happen before where this has broken even the best of relationships up. His ex is very bitter and runs down him, me and my kids to their children, which causes problems. My children are friendly towards him as is my ex, his children barely talk to me and although they have gotten on well with my children lots of times in the past, she is quick to warp their minds against us so living together just isnt an option.

    I get that days apart are completely acceptable and normal, I just seem to be kept out of his life except when he is 'free'.

    Thanks for your response. 'Not much space left' is very true, that's why I include him even when I have my kids instead of the very small amounts of time that I dont have them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭bitofabind


    L2020 wrote: »
    Plus I fear the relationship wouldnt stand the test of taking on each others kids.
    .

    This is why the relationship isn’t progressing and he’s not integrating you and your kids into his life. How can he when his ex is so hell bent in poisoning them against you and his kids are pushing back on it every time?

    Without resolving this the relationship will remain stagnant. Or you’ll get fed up and end up walking away. Time to have a real discussion with him about his viable a future together is


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭Augme


    L2020 wrote: »
    his children barely talk to me

    If his children don't like you why do you think he would invite you to spend time with them?

    If I was in his position I wouldn't force you on my kids just to keep you happy. Obviously it creates issue in relationship and this is something worth discussing.

    However I think your attitude about this isn't great and there is a sense that this all about you and your feelings are the only priority here and no one else's. The idea that you feel you should be entitled to spend time with him and his kids even when you know this kids don't want to is I think quote strange tbh.

    If you can't deal with this situation then make that decision yourself and end it. Or else accept that you possibly need to compromise and accept that you won't get what you want all the time.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You need to discuss this with him.

    You've all the information you need. He is choosing the path of least resistance. Are you afraid of losing him altogether?

    He's not going to change unless you tell him how hurt you are about the way he excludes you. He'll need to face up to it then and make a decision. We don't know the age of the kids, but it seems they have been turned against you.

    Finally, was your relationship in any way connected to the previous relationships breaking down? Presumably not, as that would be the obvious reason why he is keeping the families separate.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Finally, was your relationship in any way connected to the previous relationships breaking down? Presumably not, as that would be the obvious reason why he is keeping the families separate.


    The children are between 8 and 13yrs old on both sides.

    It was and it wasn't connected to the breakdown of our previous relationships. I was cheated on by my ex husband so my marriage was very fragile, and he was emotionally abused and manipulated by his ex wife. Meeting each other did push us to end the marriages and we do love each other very much there just seems to be a lot against us.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    L2020 wrote: »
    The children are between 8 and 13yrs old on both sides.

    It was and it wasn't connected to the breakdown of our previous relationships. I was cheated on by my ex husband so my marriage was very fragile, and he was emotionally abused and manipulated by his ex wife. Meeting each other did push us to end the marriages and we do love each other very much there just seems to be a lot against us.

    In that case the poison is his ex blaming you for ending their marriage, and the kids are at an age (and unfortunately will be for years) that they are likely bitter to not have the full set of parents. They'll "forgive" him because they kind of had to, but you'll be persona non grata to them.

    Your children will be more understanding, as you were the injured party in your marriage.

    Your partner, it would seem, could handle it better, but from the limited I know about the situation, the situation may not change for years, if ever. There may even be guilt thrown in where your partner feels he has let his kids down, and this comes to the fore when he is with them

    You still need to talk to him though. But to what level (if any) of insistence you employ to be more involved with him and his kids depends on how prepared you are to lose the relationship.

    Good luck!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Thanks for taking the time to reply to me, that makes a lot of sense.
    I'm very eager to hear other people's opinions of this because I really dont know if I am being unreasonable or not. It's just very lonely being a single parent and even though I have someone I love in my life it can be still very lonely when our time gets cut in two. We have had one Christmas day together where we spent it with all the kids as he has his kids every year. And depending on what day of the week valentines or birthdays fall on I may or may not get to even spend them with him.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    L2020 wrote: »
    Thanks for taking the time to reply to me, that makes a lot of sense.
    I'm very eager to hear other people's opinions of this because I really dont know if I am being unreasonable or not. It's just very lonely being a single parent and even though I have someone I love in my life it can be still very lonely when our time gets cut in two. We have had one Christmas day together where we spent it with all the kids as he has his kids every year. And depending on what day of the week valentines or birthdays fall on I may or may not get to even spend them with him.


    I can imagine that's very tough alright. Hopefully more people will give their insights. But, the best advice I can give would be to talk to your partner and let him know how you feel. To be clear, I believe you do have a genuine concern to raise with him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    The simple, if unsatisfying, answer is: it’s very challenging to date if you’re a single parent.

    People will argue that single parents should only date single parents, but while it might make sense on paper to some degree it’s a lazy generalisation because it fails to take into account what you’re dealing with: different families have different dynamics that work for the personalities of those involved and those dynamics have to be compatible as well as you two. Yours isn’t currently and I’m sorry but I can’t blame him for prioritising what works for his relationship with his children, that’s what a good parent would do. So to expect him to compromise that (and I appreciate that’s not what you’re saying but it’s ultimately what the end result might be) isn’t going to work. Same way it wouldn’t work for you if integrating him with your dynamic affected the dynamic within your own family.

    Also worth remembering that it’s not your fault that integrating you causes issues, that’s on his ex. The problem there is that that likely won’t change. So your only real option is to accept the state of play as it is and plan around that. His ex won’t change, you are persona non grata to his children for the time being and trying to change that could upset what probably is a functional dynamic that allows them to be reared as happily as possible. For your relationship to work, all of these things must be accepted and any changes can only be led from within, which you can’t control.

    On the flip side of THAT is you. Your needs are valid and a fair, balanced relationship is one that takes both parties needs into account and fulfils them. So you need to be honest with yourself about why this bothers you and what it is you actually need from a partner to be happy. Note how I didn’t say this partner. I’m not saying break up with him and find someone new, but for now think about yourself and your own needs as a thought experiment if nothing else. Get to the bottom of what you want/need from someone at a core level regardless of this situation.

    Then go back to him and talk to him openly and honestly about this. Tell him what you need unapologetically, have an open discussion about how you can integrate that into the relationship, and try out whatever you come up with together to see if it works. If he can’t do so or you find yourself settling for less than you came in asking for, acknowledge that. Then it’s time to start questioning the relationship. But this way you’re exploring every option, you’re respecting how serious the relationship is but also addressing your needs, and it gives you every chance at resolving this in a way that ensures you guys remain happy long term. And if it doesn’t go that way, then you’re making it easier to deal with by understanding why before anything sad happens. All boxes ticked healthily in a complicated situation! :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    For the relationship to survive, he needs to work on his kids' perception of you.

    You said that his bitter ex is turning them against you and him, but he needs to respond to this.

    But that is easier said than done, especially after 7 years of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    OP I think that you have it slightly backwards. He doesn't have much choice in inviting you to anything; his children don't accept you so it wouldn't be a positive experience for either you or them if he did...

    If he split from his wife 7 years ago and the children are 8 to 13, the oldest child would remember it very well at 6 and they would remember that the parents split when the sibling was only a baby and the upheaval it must have caused. At their age it doesn't matter to them that their mother was manipulative or abusive; in their eyes, he left, and specifically he left for you. Their mother might be stoking it alright but she doesn't even have to put in much effort, the child was old enough. They might see things differently as adults but it's still a long way off.

    You are right that living together would be next to impossible so ask yourself what chances do you see for you both if a blended household is out of the question? If you cannot live together for another 12 or 15 years until all your children leave the nest? Can you accept it or are you looking for something else after all?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Tork


    I also wonder is he afraid that his relationship/custody arrangements with his kids might be damaged if you were brought more into the picture? You can't go back in time but the lack of relationship between you and his kids should've been nipped in the bud years ago. At this stage, I don't know what can be done about it. There are no easy answers. If anything can be done, the ball is in his court I'm afraid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    Can you get married? That might change things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭DonnaDarko09


    How have his kids been with you when you have spent time together?
    After 7 years, you would really think you would have some sort a relationship with them. I think he should have made more of an effort in this regard even if the kids hold a grudge against you. They need to spend time with you to build better rapport. However is it possible his ex is threatening him of adverse custody consequences if you are allowed see their children? Could he be keeping you at arms length to keep the peace with her?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    From reading your op why are you doing so much for the relationship- you say that you arrange for your kids to go to the other parent when your current partner doesn’t have the kids- you should both be making allowances not just you.

    Also you state that you invite your partner along a lot when you have your kids? Why do you do this when the same invite isn’t extended to you?

    I would stop doing so much and see does your partner notice that he don’t spend much time together now.

    Obviously your partner has to put his kids first but to me it’s seems like there is an imbalance in the relationship where everything is fitted around your partner and his kids.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    How have his kids been with you when you have spent time together?
    After 7 years, you would really think you would have some sort a relationship with them. I think he should have made more of an effort in this regard even if the kids hold a grudge against you. They need to spend time with you to build better rapport. However is it possible his ex is threatening him of adverse custody consequences if you are allowed see their children? Could he be keeping you at arms length to keep the peace with her?

    We have had lots of days out and visits to each others houses etc over the past 7 years but it's really just more recently that there has been problems and it is mainly with the middle child. The older child and I share a common interest so we have had that but it's literally since the lockdown that she has a problem with me being around. The middle child holds the biggest grudge and I do believe it's from the mother.

    It seems to me that in the past when we have had great days out that the kids go home and tell their mother about their great weekend and then she poisons them. Because literally the next time me or my kids see them its like someone has flicked a switch and we are ignored.

    I stayed over a couple of times during the past 3 months and this seems to be a problem with them. They told him he ignores them when I'm around, that really isnt the case though. However they direct this at him, and he tells me it's nothing to do with me, but I know that it is. Since the middle child literally leaves the room when I walk in. The youngest child seems fine with me. Looking back on the 7 years it's hard to believe there was such a time when we all got along, but there was. It's so different now.

    Their mother has a live in boyfriend and this doesnt seem to be a problem for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Yeah like OP you have to see it from their POV: to them you’re the reason their parents broke up. And that’s not fair and takes responsibility away from the two people in that relationship for it failing, but they’re kids.

    When you’re a kid, your parents are perfect and infallible, and in truth asking them to lose that vision of their parents by confronting them with their imperfection is probably selfish and bad for them: having that view of your parents provides a child with stability which protects them from developing anxiety and the likes when they grow up. It’s important and, sadly, that’s more important than you being liked and even this relationship working out.

    It’s not fair but this is just something you’ll need to accept is the case for the time being with this family and working around. There comes a time in a child’s development when they’re asked to question their parents and as they learn how the world works they’ll likely see it more for what it is...but that time isn’t when they’re 7 and 13.


  • Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭DonnaDarko09


    I understand that the kids (or oldest child anyway) likely places blame with you for the dissolve of their parents relationship but I don’t think it’s fair that you need to accept this part time relationship with their dad in that case.
    He should try to involve you more when they are there. Little steps to build a better relationship with them over time is the way forward if he truly sees a future for you both.
    I would have a talk with him about these concerns if I were you. The kids don’t have to like you at first but hopefully with time they will see you are a good person and good for their dad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    L2020 wrote: »
    The children are between 8 and 13yrs old on both sides.

    It was and it wasn't connected to the breakdown of our previous relationships. I was cheated on by my ex husband so my marriage was very fragile, and he was emotionally abused and manipulated by his ex wife. Meeting each other did push us to end the marriages and we do love each other very much there just seems to be a lot against us.

    So did your partner cheat on his then wife with you? I suppose if this were the case you could see why she would be bitter. It's easy to say that your partner was emotionally abused and left the marriage because of that but has your partner told his ex that? It might change her perception of you somewhat.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Going by the schedule you posted in OP ye were together full days Sat, Sun, Thurs and 2 evenings. 2 days he spent with his kids.
    For busy people each with kids and not living together that seems like plenty of time together.

    Maybe you don't like being alone? You say you get lonely? Why? Have you hobbies? Interests?

    I love loads of time alone. Maybe he likes time out in his own headspace and with his kids? When does he get time alone? Or just off wandering? You too?

    While the kids are young just flow with it. A few days or even one day here and there in a week completely alone with each other to have relaxation and fun - which is impossibly rare let me tell you for parents living together with their kids. Enjoy it. A lot of parents would love that regular time alone together but it is REALLY hard to organise.

    Then whatever odd evenings ye can catch together that suit both. Enjoy them too.

    On the other days when you are alone and lonely find something you love doing and do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭DonnaDarko09


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    So did your partner cheat on his then wife with you? I suppose if this were the case you could see why she would be bitter. It's easy to say that your partner was emotionally abused and left the marriage because of that but has your partner told his ex that? It might change her perception of you somewhat.

    Yeah sure look I very much doubt the ex wife was fully to blame in this, in my experience, and nothing excuses cheating which is what it sounds like he did even if the relationship was on its way out. No doubt the ex wife does blame the OP somewhat. But that’s not what the OP asked advice for. The ex wife doesn’t need to like her. But it’s up to the OPs partner to include her in some time with his kids if she is to build some sort of relationship with them and for them both to have a future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Hadtoreply wrote: »
    From reading your op why are you doing so much for the relationship- you say that you arrange for your kids to go to the other parent when your current partner doesn’t have the kids- you should both be making allowances not just you.

    Also you state that you invite your partner along a lot when you have your kids? Why do you do this when the same invite isn’t extended to you?

    I would stop doing so much and see does your partner notice that he don’t spend much time together now.

    Obviously your partner has to put his kids first but to me it’s seems like there is an imbalance in the relationship where everything is fitted around your partner and his kids.

    This is exactly how I feel about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    Going by the schedule you posted in OP ye were together full days Sat, Sun, Thurs and 2 evenings. 2 days he spent with his kids.
    For busy people each with kids and not living together that seems like plenty of time together.

    Maybe you don't like being alone? You say you get lonely? Why? Have you hobbies? Interests?

    I love loads of time alone. Maybe he likes time out in his own headspace and with his kids? When does he get time alone? Or just off wandering? You too?

    While the kids are young just flow with it. A few days or even one day here and there in a week completely alone with each other to have relaxation and fun - which is impossibly rare let me tell you for parents living together with their kids. Enjoy it. A lot of parents would love that regular time alone together but it is REALLY hard to organise.

    Then whatever odd evenings ye can catch together that suit both. Enjoy them too.

    On the other days when you are alone and lonely find something you love doing and do it.

    Last week was just an example to show the lack of invitation back to me not the lack of time together. It was a week where we were not working. Typically I would see him on a Monday evening for a few hours, a Thursday evening for a few hours and every second sunday. He does have alone time without me or his kids during the week. For example when the kids are with their mother every second fri/sat/sun he usually only spends the Sunday with me. For every week like last week where we have a run of time together, it is followed by a run of days where I dont see him at all.

    I totally get that we are lucky to have windows of time with no kids around, and I know from my other married friends that they think we have the life! But sometimes I would give anything for the company they have just sitting watching tv on a saturday night or sharing a meal together.

    Yes I dont like to be alone too much. A little is fine and I do have hobbies and I try organise to see my friends during the time he isnt around. But I suppose during the last 6 months with no work and lockdown etc its particularly difficult feeling so alone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    L2020 wrote: »
    Last week was just an example to show the lack of invitation back to me not the lack of time together. It was a week where we were not working. Typically I would see him on a Monday evening for a few hours, a Thursday evening for a few hours and every second sunday. He does have alone time without me or his kids during the week. For example when the kids are with their mother every second fri/sat/sun he usually only spends the Sunday with me. For every week like last week where we have a run of time together, it is followed by a run of days where I dont see him at all.

    I totally get that we are lucky to have windows of time with no kids around, and I know from my other married friends that they think we have the life! But sometimes I would give anything for the company they have just sitting watching tv on a saturday night or sharing a meal together.

    Yes I dont like to be alone too much. A little is fine and I do have hobbies and I try organise to see my friends during the time he isnt around. But I suppose during the last 6 months with no work and lockdown etc its particularly difficult feeling so alone.

    Yes, perhaps lockdown has accentuated it.
    Anyways best of luck with it all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Yeah sure look I very much doubt the ex wife was fully to blame in this, in my experience, and nothing excuses cheating which is what it sounds like he did even if the relationship was on its way out. No doubt the ex wife does blame the OP somewhat. But that’s not what the OP asked advice for. The ex wife doesn’t need to like her. But it’s up to the OPs partner to include her in some time with his kids if she is to build some sort of relationship with them and for them both to have a future.

    No point in the partner including the OP in family days as she said the kids do not like her. Why they don't like her is what needs to be addressed, and that goes back to the the ex wife.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    So did your partner cheat on his then wife with you? I suppose if this were the case you could see why she would be bitter. It's easy to say that your partner was emotionally abused and left the marriage because of that but has your partner told his ex that? It might change her perception of you somewhat.

    He did tell her, her family saw it and told her. Counselling was involved. But unfortunately because of starting a relationship with me, it was actually her that left him and I ended up being the scapegoat so she never had to acknowledge her actions or part in the marriage breakdown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Thank you so much to everyone that has taken the time to reply and help me. I really appreciate it. Just to clarify to all that have suggested that I talk to him and tell him I feel hurt being excluded..I have done this on each occasion. But it just ends up in a row and he shuts down because he genuinely doesnt know what to do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    L2020 wrote: »
    He did tell her, her family saw it and told her. Counselling was involved. But unfortunately because of starting a relationship with me, it was actually her that left him and I ended up being the scapegoat so she never had to acknowledge her actions or part in the marriage breakdown.

    That's a really difficult situation for you to be in. You know yourself it's the kids perception of you needs to change, how that's done I don't know. Maybe your partner needs to step up a bit more as opposed to ignoring the issue by not having you there? Best of luck in any case.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    L2020 wrote:
    I stayed over a couple of times during the past 3 months and this seems to be a problem with them. They told him he ignores them when I'm around, that really isnt the case though. However they direct this at him, and he tells me it's nothing to do with me, but I know that it is. Since the middle child literally leaves the room when I walk in. The youngest child seems fine with me. Looking back on the 7 years it's hard to believe there was such a time when we all got along, but there was. It's so different now.
    So reading this, he has been trying to include you.
    This child is age 7 or 8? She should not be dictating your relationship. He should continue to invite you over. The worst that should happen is the child keeps walking out of the room, but eventually she'll have to accept you when it's clear you are part of his life.

    That child will be really spoilt and manipulative later if she realises she can control an adult's relationship by walking out of the room like that (for no reason).
    At the same time, I suppose be mindful of being friendly but distant. In other words, don't get caught up in thinking things like "why don't they like me" etc. At that age they are just learning. If they seem to dislike someone, it can be for a childish reason.
    I remember around that age if my mother didn't like someone or talked about someone negatively, I would be wary of the person too, but when I got to 10 or 11, I would start getting to know the person myself.

    The worst thing you could do I think is to take that behaviour seriously or respond to it. Don't get involved in it(If anyone should respond to it, it's the dad, but even then it may be best to ignore it and let her go through the phase).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Millionaire only not


    Just wondering this quality time ye spend together for few hours , would it be on bed ? Is it sex every time he calls for few hours ?
    I’m in similar because I’m like him once I get it I’m off for next few days . It works but I don’t know for how long , would I make full commitment never again . Been there done that .
    So that’s from his side of things and imagine most men feel the same , extra kids there stressed from there own enough, the ex it all ads up and last thing they want is more complication .
    Enjoy yer time and Ull have to wait for kids to grow up and I guess also the parents.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Am I right that you all used to do things together, but one (or all of the children?) went back and told the mother that your boyfriend spent all his time with you? So is this focus on them fairly recent and on the back of this?

    I get that it's frustrating and I know you get he's trying to be right by his kids, he must feel awful thinking his kids feel ignored. That's what he's trying to fix. It's just pretty hard that you have to be left out while he fixes it.

    When you have a bitter ex poisoning everything it must slow everything down and make moving on harder and I guess that's what she's trying to achieve. You say she emotionally manipulated him during the relationship and it looks like she's still doing it. She's moved on and got a live in boyfriend... But your partner must live in limbo, unable to move on, because he's trying to do right by the children and fix the divide the ex is digging.

    Maybe he needs time to reestablish the trust and security with his kid(s) and then things will change. Whether you want to wait it out and accept the situation as it is, is another thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Am I right that you all used to do things together, but one (or all of the children?) went back and told the mother that your boyfriend spent all his time with you? So is this focus on them fairly recent and on the back of this? .

    Yes we used to do a lot together and the kids got on great but then things started to changed overnight a few years ago. I think the kids in their innocence went back and told her we had a great day out etc and she put an end to that. I think the kids are really confused as they can see I don't do anything to hurt them but yet they are not allowed like me. I wish they could see that in actual fact I played a big part in them reconnecting both them and their dad with his extended family, and they wouldnt have the relationship they have today with their aunts and cousins and nana without my input. As she had come between my partner and his family as so many abusers of this sort do.

    I do know that it is not just me that she is turning them against. It is happening with another family member of his. One kid would come out with something like 'I'm not supposed to tell you anything'. His ex even referred to his mother as 'fat nana' and constantly run her down to them even though she was a wonderful person. I am trying not to take it personally but it's very hard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Just wondering this quality time ye spend together for few hours , would it be on bed ? Is it sex every time he calls for few hours ?
    I’m in similar because I’m like him once I get it I’m off for next few days . It works but I don’t know for how long , would I make full commitment never again . Been there done that .
    So that’s from his side of things and imagine most men feel the same , extra kids there stressed from there own enough, the ex it all ads up and last thing they want is more complication .
    Enjoy yer time and Ull have to wait for kids to grow up and I guess also the parents.

    Possibly in the earlier days it was but it really isnt now. And he would stay over or vice versa. There really is a lot to our relationship other than the physical side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Also the kids never would be ignored. He wouldnt even so much as hold my hand in front of them. He wouldnt be the type to display any sort of public affection anyway!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭laserlad2010


    I feel really sorry for this man.

    He has a toxic ex who makes his life very difficult.
    His kids don't like his current partner.
    His partner keeps pushing him to get her involved with his kids more (remember his kids don't like her, and his ex hates her being around).

    What is he supposed to do?
    He's vulnerable to custody changes as his ex can make his life more difficult (and has done for quite some time as per your posts).
    His children are unhappy when you are around.
    How can he win?

    If he forces them to spend time with you they're unhappy, tell their mother who poisons them more, possibly resulting in them refusing to spend time with their dad.

    I think the advice to reassess what you want is reasonable. I don't think this man can do any more for you given the difficult circumstances.

    Remember it's not like the children want to see you and he isn't bothered. They don't want to see you.
    This doesn't really seem like his fault, at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭bitofabind


    I'd add to the above post by saying that I really feel sorry for this man's kids too. They've gone through the trauma of a divorce and are now being raised by a completely toxic, bitter mother who's forcing them to choose between her and their father / father's relationship every day. They're not allowed to bond with the OP because their mother will guilt them and poison their minds over it. That's complicated and impossible for any adult, let alone a young child whose brain has not yet fully developed.

    And what about your own children OP? Is it healthy for them to witness your relationship with an unavailable man, who won't/can't open up his life to you and your kids, and after the pain of their own parents' divorce? Talk to any therapist or psychologist - these are the types of family issues that adults end up struggling with decades after the fact. It does untold damage to a child and sets them up for future issues with attachment, intimacy, commitment, relationships etc. We really do underestimate the importance of a safe, stable environment to a child, not just physically but emotionally and in terms of the kind of relationships they have modelled to them from a young age.

    You're in a very difficult, complicated situation OP. I'd urge you to think about it in simple terms and try to be honest with yourself. Are your needs being met? Can they ever be met in this situation? What message is that telling your children?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭eleventh


    Remember it's not like the children want to see you and he isn't bothered. They don't want to see you.
    This doesn't really seem like his fault, at all.
    She gets on ok with the older child. It's the younger child that's acting out. If she's very unhappy with her there, maybe she could skip those visits.

    It's not an ideal situation, any of it, but a young child having that much say in who her father has in his house, doesn't seem right to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    eleventh wrote: »
    She gets on ok with the older child. It's the younger child that's acting out. If she's very unhappy with her there, maybe she could skip those visits.

    It's not an ideal situation, any of it, but a young child having that much say in who her father has in his house, doesn't seem right to me.

    As well as getting on with the older child I also get on with the younger 8yr old aswell...well to the point where they talk back to me and neither of them leave the room when I come in! It's the middle child that I struggle with as he won't talk to me at all and will leave the room or kick up with his dad.

    I totally agree about a child not dictating who his dad can have in the house and so does my partner but he doesnt know what to do about it. He feels he is struggling with his own relationship with two of the children and that it isnt personally about me.

    Also just to add to everyone that I really amnt pushing my way in to their lives all the time. It's just I would really like to be able to be around literally just one weekend day every 2 weeks. And they spend half of every week with their dad so there are so many days when it's just them and him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭laserlad2010


    No winners here OP.

    It's not his fault but this doesn't seem like its going to change any time soon.

    You could just accept that you won't have a relationship with them for the time being. I meant to say that I've probably absolved him of any responsibility with my earlier post, and that you and he are responsible for a lot of his children's turmoil (thats simplified and wrong but is the reality for them and their mother).

    If you are determined to be a part of their lives, is there a way you could sort of "organically" work your way into this?
    Start out with changing their opinion of you.
    This could be with kindness - arrange to arrive a short time before they go back to their mothers and have it be a positive interaction. This might require finding a way to connect with the middle child - not a gift as the mother might throw that in the bin...
    Perhaps by cooking his favourite food, or talking to him about an interest of his.
    The two girls have adjusted reasonably well but you'll have to work harder to connect with him.

    Then you could build on that "innocuous" meeting to more of a prearranged visit. Perhaps you're just trying to get to the big stuff too quickly?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    OP I think that you're focusing on the wrong thing... You're trying to be closer with his side of the family but your real problem is that you're in fact in this strange halfway house relationship; you went through a lot of upheaval for it and seven years later you're pretty much in the same place, feeling lonely and like it's not what you signed up for. But what did you sign up for really?

    It's easy to blame the "toxic ex" who seems to have her share of issues but at the same time look at what she actually did and recognise it. She was emotionally abusive but by your own account she accepted the intervention and took part in counselling so she was at least trying. Is it honest to say that she accepted no fault of hers in the breakdown when she did that? In turn, her then husband had an affair with you when she was either with a very small child or perhaps pregnant, not clear from the timelines; the worst possible way to dissolve a marriage. She was the one to find out too, the fallout must have been nuclear. Despite all that, it seems that she came to agreement with your partner and they are able to coparent in a way that is effective and smooth. She clearly respects him enough as a father and yes this puts you in a scapegoat position but it's on you both as much as it is on her. She has no obligation whatsoever towards you same as you had none towards her when you started the relationship with her husband; her allegiance is with her children so when she hears stories like that they are being ignored (which might very well be said on a whim, they are children after all) why wouldn't she act on it? She is not a nice person but she doesn't need to be nice to you unless she's an absolute saint and she's very far off it from the description... I think your focus on her is a distraction.

    I do wonder what your plan was when you started the relationship with him? You say you were found out, what was the plan if you weren't? Was he going to leave his wife for you? Was he going to leave his wife regardless? Were you going to form a unit? Living together with five children is extremely hard to pull off but you were aware of that fact when you first got together, what were you going to do?

    You went through so much to be together and yet seven years later you are still in a girlfriend/boyfriend situation, with no plans to even move in together. What's in it for you? What would happen if you pooled all resources and decided f*ck it, let's move and live together, let's even get married if this kind of commitment would help? Would your partner be up for it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 548 ✭✭✭JasonStatham


    She should definitely quit this relationship. It's far too complicated a dynamic to work well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Unless I’ve really misread things, you were a part of the breakup of his marriage - even if your actual physical relationship didn’t start until after that. The exact timelines aren’t clear to me.

    His ex clearly had behaviour that was not conducive to a good relationship. And was attending counselling. So I don’t really understand the timeline with that. How soon did you enter into a relationship with this guy after his marriage was officially over (not ‘practically’ over).

    Sounds to me as tho the ex views you as one of the reasons her marriage failed. And now you’re getting pushback from his kids. This is a horrendous situation for your partner. But others who comment on the child not being let away with manipulative behaviour are right too. Problem is that the child might not even realise they’re doing that. It’s a tightrope for your partner.

    Tbh my take is that you either accept things as they are, or walk away. While you do have needs which are valid, they’re not as valid as your partner looking after his kids. And it would be ideal if a compromise could be reached, but I just can’t see that as feasible for the next few years.

    I actually think there’s merit in you two conducting your relationship only when neither of you kids are around (which I’d never normally say). Your relationship is causing trauma with his ex and kids, and as another poster said, do you want this to be the relationship template that your own kids grow up with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Thank you for your response. Just to be clear his ex didnt accept that her behaviour wasnt right, and the counselling wasnt to seek help for that. The counselling was for him to try and deal with it. He ended up having to go to Amen for help and Pieta house, such was the extent of what he was going through. She would not let him have any sort of relationship with any member of his family. His young children were stopped from seeing their grandmother. She had the pin to his phone, the password to emails etc and regularly checked up on him. She drank and was a nightmare on these nights. And he ended up having to get Tusla involved as the abuse was starting on the middle child (the one with the issues now).

    Yes it's fair to say I played a part in this marriage ending, but believe me that wasnt a bad thing. And yes the mother is out of their lives for half the week, but a hell of a lot of good people were put back in their lives because of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Tork


    I don't know if there is any easy answer to this. It's easy to get distracted by the ins and outs of why the marriage ended. The big takeaway from this is that the ex has form when it comes to preventing access to the people in her life. First it was your partner not being allowed to have a relationship with his own family, then it was the grandparents not being allowed to see their grandchildren. You wouldn't have to be a genius to work out that your partner fears the day he's told one or the other of the kids doesn't want to see him. I don't know what the answer is but it makes for sad reading. Have you ever sat your partner down and got him to talk through his feelings about this, rather than how to find a solution? That might be a start of another conversation which is of more value to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    OP. The reality is that even though your partner's ex was abusive (and this is second hand information from your partner) he had an affair with you, which he kept secret from his ex, and which caused her to leave him. So as far as his kids are concerned, you are the woman their dad cheated on their mum with, betrayed their mum with and was the cause of the end of their parents marriage.

    When they're older they'll probably see that their dad and mum had responsibility for the situation too, but right now they're too young for that. So they blame you.

    If I were you I would not be pushing to spend time with your partner's kids. They don't want to see you. You have to manage the relationship in such a way that you spend time with your partner without impacting on his time with his kids. And like it or not, they come first.
    If you can do that - great. If not - as others have said - maybe it could be time to re-evaluate the relationship.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    If the youngest was 8, they were only a year old when the parents split up, so how can they bear a grudge when this is the only life they know?
    .
    Tusla being involved is really worrying. Let him concentrate on his kids when he has them. There's a huge amount of issues there and he's doing the right thing by focusing on the kids given the circumstances.

    It must be very difficult, I'm sire you want to move forward at this stage, but if he needs to take it slow for now he's not doing it to upset you. Its for a very good reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    If the youngest was 8, they were only a year old when the parents split up, so how can they bear a grudge when this is the only life they know?
    .
    Tusla being involved is really worrying. Let him concentrate on his kids when he has them. There's a huge amount of issues there and he's doing the right thing by focusing on the kids given the circumstances.

    It must be very difficult, I'm sire you want to move forward at this stage, but if he needs to take it slow for now he's not doing it to upset you. Its for a very good reason.

    The youngest and oldest are actually ok with me. I'm sure I'm not their favourite person but they chat back to me a bit. It's the middle child that seems to have the biggest problem with me. I really feel for him as I can see how confused he is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 421 ✭✭banoffe2


    Hi Op
    reading through the posts here, it appears to be very complicated, trying to make the relationship work for you both and trying to achieve the blended family.

    I am thinking of the children here, and I can't begin to imagine what they must be going through.
    They trying to cope with and process the break up of their parents, their grief and loss and trying to adjust to the new relationships on both sides and the new blended family dynamic.

    It looks like he is looking for more space and quality time with his kids.

    Wants and needs can be poles apart for people, I don't know what is realistic or achievable here.

    Is it important for you that when you are both off and you both have the kids that ye go swimming together every day, would it be a problem if ye both went separately with yer kids.

    It sounds like you would like to be with him all the time which will inevitably involve kids from both sides except when they are with the other parent.

    The kids are young and these problems will continue, it would be ideal if they all accepted you, but too good to be true.

    There is a high price to be paid for all involved in trying to achieve any type of blended family here and so much hurt going on in the background
    Do you think it would be possible for you two to keep yer relationship separate and enjoy the quality time you share together.

    I wish you the very best.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 L2020


    Yes at the moment our time together is mainly just when he has no children, and mostly when I dont have mine although they accept him so there are no problems there. I suppose it isnt important that we all go swimming together etc, I just wish that there was some involvement altogether so that when bigger events arise such as birthdays and christmases etc that it is possible to share these together. He has his kids every single Christmas, Stephens day and new years eve..she had this written into their separation agreement, this in my opinion sums her right up as the type of mother she is. Therefore if we can't have some time together it means it's a very lonely relationship.


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