Secondary School - is single gender better than co-ed?

Toots · 11-03-2019 12:23am #1

I'm trying to figure out what to do about secondary school for my kids (kinda scary seeing as they're 7 and 1 but I've been told I need to start putting their names down asap) and I'm not sure whether to go for a mixed gender school or all boys/girls.

I went to an all girls and my husband went to an all boys secondary school. We both went to mixed primaries, and my son is currently in a mixed primary. I've been hearing loads of different opinions on this, but not from anyone who's had a kid in school within the last decade.

Some are saying that it's better to have all boys/all girls because there's less distractions (?) But others are saying it's better for them to mix.

I'd appreciate any views or advice people have

work · 11-03-2019 12:27am

mixed like the real world. Respect is developed by being together

Victor · 11-03-2019 12:39am

Toots wrote: »

Some are saying that it's better to have all boys/all girls because there's less distractions

I'm not sure about that.

Except for one class I took outside school, there were no girls in any of my classes from age 7 to 20. Socially, I turned out to be a bit of a disaster - and I resent that.

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 7:32am

It depends really on the quality of the schools themselves and what your own values and experiences are.

In terms of academic performance at least, the top 10 schools in the country in 2017 were all single-sex schools - all girls in the top 5, followed by all boys schools making up the top 10.

I went to an all boys school and honestly schools haven’t changed that much in the last 20 years. My son goes to a mixed school, and like I did, he still manages to find time outside of school for mixing with his friends. I knew lads who were completely distracted being surrounded by boys in an all boys school, and I knew girls who were the same in the Convent

Really it comes down to where you feel your son will be most comfortable and will be conducive to his academic, social and personal development. I don’t expect you plan on moving counties any time soon to enrol your son in one of the top performing schools, but knowing some of the schools as I do, they’re also not just focused on academic performance, but ensuring every student has a well-rounded education which prepares them as adults for “the real world”.

You’ll also have to consider things like catchment areas and whether or not the school employs what’s called the siblings rule, or whether or not the school prioritises the children of parents who were past students of the school, but that’s all moot if the department of education lottery comes into play where you choose your schools in order of preference - 1st choice, 2nd choice, etc, and take your chances that your application is successful. If it’s not, you may find yourself bumped down to your third or even fourth choice of school!

TL:DR version? There’s a lot more factors to consider in choosing a school for your childs education nowadays than there was 20 years ago when for the most part it was simply a matter of sending your child either to a single sex or a mixed sex school.

judeboy101 · 11-03-2019 7:42am

Statistically girls do better academically in single sex.

splinter65 · 11-03-2019 7:42am

Toots wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out what to do about secondary school for my kids (kinda scary seeing as they're 7 and 1 but I've been told I need to start putting their names down asap) and I'm not sure whether to go for a mixed gender school or all boys/girls.

I went to an all girls and my husband went to an all boys secondary school. We both went to mixed primaries, and my son is currently in a mixed primary. I've been hearing loads of different opinions on this, but not from anyone who's had a kid in school within the last decade.

Some are saying that it's better to have all boys/all girls because there's less distractions (?) But others are saying it's better for them to mix.

I'd appreciate any views or advice people have

Toots put the names down for as many schools as is allowed (is there a restriction!) and believe me when they get to 6th class your kids will tell you which school they’re going to!

shesty · 11-03-2019 9:12am

I believe girls do better in a single sex and boys do better in mixed.There is research to back that up I think, although I would imagine the quality of the school helps.

I went to a single sex school (girls).I can see the advantages and disadvantages.Currently on the fence, so taking the approach of putting my kids names down for a few different schools locally.When the time comes, I will be making the decision though, it won't be up to my 12 year old to have the final say I'm afraid.

splinter65 · 11-03-2019 9:22am

shesty wrote: »

I believe girls do better in a single sex and boys do better in mixed.There is research to back that up I think, although I would imagine the quality of the school helps.

I went to a single sex school (girls).I can see the advantages and disadvantages.Currently on the fence, so taking the approach of putting my kids names down for a few different schools locally.When the time comes, I will be making the decision though, it won't be up to my 12 year old to have the final say I'm afraid.

If all of your 12 year old child’s friends are heading off to one school and your preference is for another school then your going to have to have a lot of very good arguments to put forward. Nothing is as important as your interpersonal relationships when your 12, for boys and girls.

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 9:53am

splinter65 wrote: »

If all of your 12 year old child’s friends are heading off to one school and your preference is for another school then your going to have to have a lot of very good arguments to put forward. Nothing is as important as your interpersonal relationships when your 12, for boys and girls.

Yep, this was my experience too when deciding which school to send our child to. That’s why this post was a bit of a head-scratcher -

work wrote: »

mixed like the real world. Respect is developed by being together

The “real world” isn’t all that mixed at all - men still generally mix with other men, and women still generally mix with other women, and everyone still generally has respect for each other, they just prefer to associate with people of their own sex.

mirrorwall14 · 11-03-2019 9:55am

I’m a product of an all girls catholic school primary and secondary. I got an excellent leaving cert. I had terrible social skills around boys. First year in college was incredibly difficult for me. I hope to have mixed education for mine at second level

wench · 11-03-2019 10:09am

Check out the range of subjects the schools offer.
Some single sex schools don't offer the stereotypical subjects of the opposite sex, eg no home ec in boys school, no tech drawing in the girls

meeeeh · 11-03-2019 10:19am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The “real world” isn’t all that mixed at all - men still generally mix with other men, and women still generally mix with other women, and everyone still generally has respect for each other, they just prefer to associate with people of their own sex.

I went to a mixed primary and secondary school and my group of friends was always very mixed. Just because that's your experience it is not necessarily everyone's experience.

My kids are in mixed primary, they both have friends of both genders, I don't see why that should change in secondary school.

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 10:30am

meeeeh wrote: »

I went to a mixed primary and secondary school and my group of friends was always very mixed. Just because that's your experience it is not necessarily everyone's experience.

My kids are in mixed primary, they both have friends of both genders, I don't see why that should change in secondary school.

I didn’t claim it was just my experience though? It’s based upon observation. My own experience of having attended mixed primary and single sex secondary had no bearing on who I mix with as an adult, nor did it mean I had any less respect for women. This is exactly why I suggested to the OP in my very first post in this thread that where they send their own child will depend much more on their own values and their own experiences than anyone else telling them one school is better than another based upon criteria that are important to that individual.

cruizer101 · 11-03-2019 10:36am

judeboy101 wrote: »

Statistically girls do better academically in single sex.

True and boys do better in mixed.
But remember the most important learning you do growing up is not academic its all the other stuff.
Personally I think mixed is better in general but I wouldn't get too hung up on it either, both types produce plenty of genius plenty of idiots and plenty of well rounded normal people.

TheValeyard · 11-03-2019 10:41am

Mixed education like mixed work places in life. Creates more socially aware students and able to communicate and understand other genders and sexualities easier. Particularly at second level.

Also, avoid the scare mongering about enrollment for second level at aged seven. Unless it's a private fee paying school you will not be expected to enroll at that age. Most schools now, with department changes, will not even consider putting a name of a child down unless they are current 6th class students. Then it will be based on criteria such as feeder primary schools, zoning in locality for schools, etc.

lazygal · 11-03-2019 10:43am

All other things being equal I would choose a mixed school.
But they aren't all equal so while my husband and I have our children's names down for a local mixed secondary school we're not going to rule out all other schools in the area. I would avoid several based on poor reports from other parents who've moved children. I don't like my old secondary convent school but if my daughter wanted to go there I'd probably send her and see how she gets on. The boys school my brother attended has an excellent reputation and I can see that it's obsession with rules and order would suit our middle child down to the ground. Either way I don't think one form of school is 'better' overall.

GrumPy · 11-03-2019 10:45am

Mixed. Prepare them for reality. I can't understand single sex schools. I went to a single sex primary, mixed secondary, but the last 2 years switched to a single sex secondary for leaving cert. I was a hormonal mess of a creature.

Victor · 11-03-2019 10:45am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The “real world” isn’t all that mixed at all

And why is this?

People coming from the continent are surprised at the level of separation is social groups here.

meeeeh · 11-03-2019 10:50am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn’t claim it was just my experience though? It’s based upon observation.

Its your observation in a country with a lot of single sex schools.

My brother went to school with predominately boys (it wasn't single sex) and I went to very mixed school. My group of friends would be a lot more mixed, so would be groups of other people who went to more mixed high schools or university courses.

Anyway my personal preference for mixed schools is firstly because it's the only system I know and also because it means a lot more rounded experience. For example girls in my school were a lot less likely to wear make up than girls in predominately girl schools. I went to very good high school so every school might not be the same but there were very few instances of bullying. However if I had a choice between decent single sex school and rubbish mixed I would choose singe sex.

huskerdu · 11-03-2019 11:03am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Also, avoid the scare mongering about enrollment for second level at aged seven. Unless it's a private fee paying school you will not be expected to enroll at that age. Most schools now, with department changes, will not even consider putting a name of a child down unless they are current 6th class students. Then it will be based on criteria such as feeder primary schools, zoning in locality for schools, etc.

I'm afraid this is not true. Where I live, all the local secondary schools ( Ordinary , non-fee paying) have a closing date for entries in 4th class and offer places by Christmas in 5th class.

Its best to check the actual schools for something as important as this,

TheValeyard · 11-03-2019 11:06am

huskerdu wrote: »

I'm afraid this is not true. Where I live, all the local secondary schools ( Ordinary , non-fee paying) have a closing date for entries in 4th class and offer places by Christmas in 5th class.

Its best to check the actual schools for something as important as this,

Well you're local school is risking a slap from the department of Education and a court case as policies have most definitely changed in regards to enrollment and the lottery system. What school is it, ETB, CC, Community, CBS, etc?

huskerdu · 11-03-2019 11:10am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Well you're local school is risking a slap from the department of Education and a court case as policies have most definitely changed in regards to enrollment and the lottery system. What school is it, ETB, CC, Community, CBS, etc?

No, they do only offer places based on the published enrollment policies around catchment area etc. , just a bit earlier than you say.

I know this is changing, but I haven't seen any official announcement that is has already changed.

As I said, the OP should ask the school.

FionnB · 11-03-2019 11:11am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Well you're local school is risking a slap from the department of Education and a court case as policies have most definitely changed in regards to enrollment and the lottery system. What school is it, ETB, CC, Community, CBS, etc?

They have not changed - it has been said that policies will have to change, but they have not changed yet. All our local schools have different policies from each other, but for some you need to have names down from a very young age to have any chance of getting in.

Grab All Association · 11-03-2019 11:16am

In mixed schools there tends to be what you could almost describe as grooming by guys 18 in 6th year of 12-13 year old first year girls.

Toots · 11-03-2019 11:19am

huskerdu wrote: »

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Also, avoid the scare mongering about enrollment for second level at aged seven. Unless it's a private fee paying school you will not be expected to enroll at that age. Most schools now, with department changes, will not even consider putting a name of a child down unless they are current 6th class students. Then it will be based on criteria such as feeder primary schools, zoning in locality for schools, etc.

I'm afraid this is not true. Where I live, all the local secondary schools ( Ordinary , non-fee paying) have a closing date for entries in 4th class and offer places by Christmas in 5th class.

Its best to check the actual schools for something as important as this,

Yes, unfortunately that seems to be the case where I live, as well. We had a meeting at the school and the principal was advising people to start putting names down now. I’ve already phoned a few schools and most of them have at least 50 names down for the year my son is due to start. While the “closing date” is the start of 6th class for some of them, if they’re already full, you’d have no chance if you left it til 5th class to put their name down.

In my area, there are a couple of mixed non fee paying schools, but unfortunately they aren’t somewhere I’d be considering sending the kids, both have a lot of problems with anti social behaviour and one is so bad that for a time the local bus wouldn’t allow their students on because they’d vandalised it so much.

Just to complicate matters, it’s fairly likely we will be moving county in the next couple of years, so we’ll be going to an area where I know nothing about the schools. Are the league tables a good benchmark as to whether or not a school is any good?

AndrewJRenko · 11-03-2019 11:21am

Grab All Association wrote: »

In mixed schools there tends to be what you could almost describe as grooming by guys 18 in 6th year of 12-13 year old first year girls.

This is nonsense.

If you see this happening in any school, you should report it to the Designated Liaison Person who will investigate and involve Tusla and Gardai if required.

To suggest that this is a generalised issue is nonsense.

bee06 · 11-03-2019 11:30am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m a product of an all girls catholic school primary and secondary. I got an excellent leaving cert. I had terrible social skills around boys. First year in college was incredibly difficult for me. I hope to have mixed education for mine at second level

This would have been my experience as well.

Both my sisters went to the same school and had to do applied maths elsewhere because it wasn’t a subject that was offered. There would have been other “traditionally male” subjects that one of my sisters would have liked to do but couldn’t because they weren’t on offer at our school.

TheValeyard · 11-03-2019 11:42am

FionnB wrote: »

They have not changed - it has been said that policies will have to change, but they have not changed yet. All our local schools have different policies from each other, but for some you need to have names down from a very young age to have any chance of getting in.

Hmmm. Id definitely check it out. Sounds what the principals are doing is chancing their arms. Could be an issue that they are currently oversubscribed in the area. I know of many schools that are charging a registration fee to prevent parents from putting their childs names on multiple enrollment forms for all the schools in that area.

ShaShaBear · 11-03-2019 11:43am

As there were no mixed primary schools in our town, I attended a Catholic convent all-girls school from age 7 until 12 (we had a Juniors school that was mixed). I found that when I eventually got to the mixed secondary school, I had absolutely no idea how to conduct myself around boys, or even men for that matter. Female friends of mine who came from a mixed primary school had no issues making friends with both genders and were far more socially-experienced and calm. Despite receiving a very open, honest and informative sex education from my parents, I was a total numpty around boys, and didn't learn how to conduct myself around them socially in a non-sexual way until I was in my mid-20s in college. It was also blatantly obvious what boys came from mixed primary schools, as they were far more respectful of women, and by far the easier ones to talk to.

I've just enrolled my daughter in the only mixed primary school in town - I feel it's very important for her to learn how to socially mix with all genders (as well as races and later sexualities) and I would like for her to have a mix of male and female friends when she hits secondary age.

Nothing in my academic life was more distracting than hitting puberty and sitting in a classroom with 20-30 attractive boys my age that I'd not been in such close proximity to since I was 6 :rolleyes:

TheValeyard · 11-03-2019 11:44am

huskerdu wrote: »

As I said, the OP should ask the school.

Definitely ask the school, but also parents have the right to appeal, especially if your child is refused a place when you live in the locality and a child who lives further away and has another school nearby was given a place.

Nearly all schools will be lottery system within three years. (once local students have been placed)

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 11:57am

Victor wrote: »

And why is this?

People coming from the continent are surprised at the level of separation is social groups here.

People gravitate towards people they have things in common with is all. I don’t know that people coming from the continent actually are all that surprised at the level of separation in social groups here as though it’s any different in their own countries, it’s pretty much the same, but it stands to reason that the people you interact with would have similar opinions to your own - precisely because people gravitate towards people they have things in common with.

Take for example the fact that primary school teaching is dominated by women, in fact the teacher training college not a stones throw from me, the student population is 75% women, and this is reflected in the professional environment too where teaching is dominated by women. Other professions are dominated by men. That is the real world, in spite of some people’s idealistic notions about gender equality and all the rest of it.

I haven’t even gotten into gender segregation in sports at an international level, that’s probably a subject best left to AH

meeeeh · 11-03-2019 12:00pm

I think sex angle is actually often a bit over-stated. Where I found major difference was that interests in high school were a lot less gendered. It was fairly normal for girls to take interest in sports ( in fact best girls in our class routinely beat best boys from our and another class in volleyball), we did physics or sociology and there were very little gender differences. Outside of school subjects other interests were a lot more mixed. Very few people in our class actually dated anyone from class or even school but that would also because most of us commuted from different areas and wouldn't spend time together during weekends. There was also complete contempt at the idea seniors would date someone from first class. So this idea that kids at mixed schools are at it like rabbits is a bit of a nonsense. Most of us would be still awkward around someone we were attracted to.

TheValeyard · 11-03-2019 12:03pm

Toots wrote: »

Yes, unfortunately that seems to be the case where I live, as well. We had a meeting at the school and the principal was advising people to start putting names down now. I’ve already phoned a few schools and most of them have at least 50 names down for the year my son is due to start. While the “closing date” is the start of 6th class for some of them, if they’re already full, you’d have no chance if you left it til 5th class to put their name down.

Some schools will have opening nights early in September for that very reason.
Usually its done by October of 6th class as many schools will then have an entrance exam to check incoming first years literacy, numeracy, educational needs, skills, etc. It helps sort out some class groupings and alerts schools to any kids they made need extra care.

Toots wrote: »

Just to complicate matters, it’s fairly likely we will be moving county in the next couple of years, so we’ll be going to an area where I know nothing about the schools. Are the league tables a good benchmark as to whether or not a school is any good?

League tables are a poor reflection as they mostly seem to base success on those who go to college or university courses. They do not take into account development of students with learning difficulties or LCA classes to progress students to alternative courses before college or apprenticeships.

Mad Mike · 11-03-2019 12:21pm

I think it depends on the child and on what is important to you. There seems to be significant statistical evidence that single sex schools score higher academically. On the other hand it stands to reason that mixed sex is closer to the real world and may give them better preparation for life.

My own kids (all girls) went to a single sex school because it was closest decent school. Overall I was pleased with it because they got a very good education and the school did instil a sense of social responsibility while also empowering them as young women. I can't really say it hindered their interaction with boys because they all progressed that side of things at their own rate and boyfriends started appearing from age 15 onward for at least one girl. The one thing that caught me by surprise was how much of an emotional cauldron a school full of teenage girls can be. At times the interpersonal drama was off the charts. I don't know if this is just a girls school thing or if it is a trend of the social media age we live in but things seemed so much simpler several decades ago when I went to an all male school and the main concern was how to act the maggot and avoid getting walloped for it. The mid teens were particularly traumatic and I wonder if having a few boys in class would have lightened the atmosphere at that time and made things easier for everyone.

ShaShaBear · 11-03-2019 12:36pm

Mad Mike wrote: »

I don't know if this is just a girls school thing or if it is a trend of the social media age we live in but things seemed so much simpler several decades ago when I went to an all male school and the main concern was how to act the maggot and avoid getting walloped for it. The mid teens were particularly traumatic and I wonder if having a few boys in class would have lightened the atmosphere at that time and made things easier for everyone.

I experienced the same in my all-girls primary school, as did my younger sister. This would have been 20 and 10 years ago respectively. Definitely saw much less of it in secondary school.
Oddly enough, myself and a friend were talking about creche and how the same thing seems to happen in a work setting filled with women. I mentioned how that doesn't seem to be the case at my creche, as there is a man working there and my mother recalled working in creche some years ago when a man started working in the kitchen and tensions were halved!

antodeco · 11-03-2019 12:39pm

I went to an all boys school my whole life (except junior infants to first class). Both my kids are attending mixed as I believe it serves a better social purpose. They're also in a gaelscoil just to confuse them

shesty · 11-03-2019 12:41pm

splinter65 wrote: »

If all of your 12 year old child’s friends are heading off to one school and your preference is for another school then your going to have to have a lot of very good arguments to put forward. Nothing is as important as your interpersonal relationships when your 12, for boys and girls.

Absolutely.But if the 12 year old's preference is for a local school that has bullying issues among other things and that they, quite honestly, will not be going to, then I'm sorry, but as the parent I will be deciding.

I am not sure if we are in unusual position in that there are a number of secondary schools within travelling distance around here with fairly wide catchment areas, who I will put the kids names down in, but I think by even doing this I will be making the decision for them anyway because they are mainly oversubscribed - wanting (in 6/7 year's time) to go to a different school unfortunately are not likely to work out.The primary school classes here often go to a mix of 3/4 different secondary schools, sometimes more.

Anyway Toots with regard to your OP, it is very much your personal preference; at the moment I am trying to keep options open for both single sex and mixed, as I am not sure.

eviltwin · 11-03-2019 1:21pm

I let my oldest choose her own school and she went for mixed because the subject choice was better. I never had a problem with boys being a distraction and she did extremely well but I know other people say different.

My youngest has been in a mixed school since JI and I plan to continue that in secondary. I don't like the idea of sex segregation but it would largely depend on the child and the school itself.

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 1:40pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Its your observation in a country with a lot of single sex schools.

My brother went to school with predominately boys (it wasn't single sex) and I went to very mixed school. My group of friends would be a lot more mixed, so would be groups of other people who went to more mixed high schools or university courses.

Anyway my personal preference for mixed schools is firstly because it's the only system I know and also because it means a lot more rounded experience. For example girls in my school were a lot less likely to wear make up than girls in predominately girl schools. I went to very good high school so every school might not be the same but there were very few instances of bullying. However if I had a choice between decent single sex school and rubbish mixed I would choose singe sex.

While it’s true that I live in a country where 30% of post-primary schools are single sex, my opinion is based upon observation at both national and international level.

You’re basing your opinion on your personal experience, which is fine, but it’s hardly representative of a whole lot, which is what you’re suggesting I’m doing (I’m not).

Your experience isn’t anything like this for example -

Single-sex or co-ed?

In a culture of ‘fake tan’ and ‘trophy wives’, single-sex schools provide a safety net for girls, says Barbara Ennis, principal of Alexandra College, Dublin

I don’t see why you would make a correlation between whether a woman wears makeup or not, and their education, seeing as most women wear makeup, and they will have received an all-round education. Same with the correlation you’re making between the standard of education provided by a school, and the level of bullying in the school. Bullying goes on in all educational institutions regardless of the reputation of the school. Having talked to a lot of women who went to single sex schools, they often experienced bullying that impeded their education, some of it particularly vicious at times. I didn’t experience anything like that in an all boys school, but I still acknowledge the fact that it’s prevalent in many schools regardless of the demographic of the school, at either national or international level, and the same goes for bullying in the workplace, in spite of their well rounded education that was provided to them in school, because it’s a personality trait, nothing to do with their education.

Looking at an overall picture though won’t give anyone any real perspective on which schools they should send their child to, which is why I suggested earlier -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Really it comes down to where you feel your son will be most comfortable and will be conducive to his academic, social and personal development.

Lorelli! · 11-03-2019 1:47pm

I went to a mixed local school in junior infants, then moved to an all girls one for the rest of primary. It was further away, not that far but I had to get a bus and there were not that many kids from my area that went there. It was known as a better school but I felt the distance was isolating me from my peers.

I chose to go to a mixed school closer where all my friends were going for secondary. Actually it was extremely close but I still managed to be late quite a lot

Didn't have any problems socially with the boys or the girls as a result of previously attending an all girls school. Thinking of it now, there were more boys in my year at the beginning of secondary than girls where, it didn't happen too much but some classes might only have two girls in a class with the rest boys. Also not really relevant but at the time, there was roughly an equal amount of male teachers as there were female teachers which I didn't have any issue with either having previously had only women as teachers.

For me, it wasn't really an issue of whether it was mixed or same sex but I preferred secondary in general simply because I was with my own social group.

freshpopcorn · 11-03-2019 1:58pm

Where I live you've the option of the convent, CBS or tech/community school(mixed).
The Concent and CBS would get better results than the tech and most people seem happy going to them.
However the disadvantages would be wood work/TG isn't available for the girls and homiceconmic isn't available for the guys.
Metal work isn't offered to either.
Music is available for the girls and is tricky for the lads to do.
When you do get into 5th year the schools mix for a few subjects.
If you went to the community college.( It's
more popular with people who want to do trades/farming/etc). You'd have easier access to the subjects I mentioned above but you'd either have to pick French or German once you went into second year and in 5th year there seems to be less choices regarding science because the class sizes are small and they go with what's popular.
So, to me the kids interests play a part.

meeeeh · 11-03-2019 2:15pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

While it’s true that I live in a country where 30% of post-primary schools are single sex, my opinion is based upon observation at both national and international level.

You’re basing your opinion on your personal experience, which is fine, but it’s hardly representative of a whole lot, which is what you’re suggesting I’m doing (I’m not).

Your experience isn’t anything like this for example -

Single-sex or co-ed?

In a culture of ‘fake tan’ and ‘trophy wives’, single-sex schools provide a safety net for girls, says Barbara Ennis, principal of Alexandra College, Dublin

Well if your experience is international you and her would do well on checking stats for make up and fake tan in European countries with mixed sex education.

Edit: just to add I'm not in favor of mixed schools at any cost because the quality of school would be first consideration. Kids to schools with higher academic barriers or certain private schools, schools that are not disadvantaged areas will have advantage.

Johnnyhpipe · 11-03-2019 2:17pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m a product of an all girls catholic school primary and secondary. I got an excellent leaving cert. I had terrible social skills around boys. First year in college was incredibly difficult for me. I hope to have mixed education for mine at second level

Exactly this. I knew boys who couldn’t talk to girls for years (i’m married 2 years and still can’t...)

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 2:38pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Well if your experience is international you and her would do well on checking stats for make up and fake tan in European countries with mixed sex education.

I’d appreciate it if you could link to any evidence for this correlation that you’ve read yourself, I’d be interested in reading it.

meeeeh · 11-03-2019 2:53pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’d appreciate it if you could link to any evidence that you’ve read yourself.

Ireland is among top users of fake tan in the world. If single sex schools discourage use of fake tan then they are doing poor job.

https://www.independent.ie/style/beauty/beauty-is-booming-for-savvy-business-owners-31209636.html

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of this argument because frankly it's stupid. I never anything about fake tan but I also don't believe in nonsense that girls will be more into their looks in mixed schools. However there is supposed to be research that points kids develop socially better in mixed schools.

AndrewJRenko · 11-03-2019 3:20pm

I was at a Transition Year meeting for parents and students at a mixed school last week. All the girls sat together on one side and the boys on the other. It's the same arrangement at lunchtime I'm told.

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 4:23pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Ireland is among top users of fake tan in the world. If single sex schools discourage use of fake tan then they are doing poor job.

https://www.independent.ie/style/beauty/beauty-is-booming-for-savvy-business-owners-31209636.html

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of this argument because frankly it's stupid. I never anything about fake tan but I also don't believe in nonsense that girls will be more into their looks in mixed schools. However there is supposed to be research that points kids develop socially better in mixed schools.

Oh there’s plenty of research on that alright, none of it still conclusive either way. It was your criteria of girls wearing less makeup as an example of a more well rounded experience I was wondering about -

meeeeh wrote: »

IAnyway my personal preference for mixed schools is firstly because it's the only system I know and also because it means a lot more rounded experience. For example girls in my school were a lot less likely to wear make up than girls in predominately girl schools.

As it happens though, there is plenty of research which suggests it isn’t just nonsense that girls are just as much into their looks in mixed schools as they are in single sex schools, if not more so -

Self-esteem problems more likely for girls in mixed school environments

meeeeh · 11-03-2019 4:33pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Self-esteem problems more likely for girls in mixed school environments

They asked 200 of girls about their attitudes 100 from each school. In single sex school it was 19 girls who dieted despite no need for it and in other school it was 26. You take that 'research' seriously?

And I never said wearing make up makes girls less rounded. If your intetion is to misrepresent you are doing very good job.

One eyed Jack · 11-03-2019 4:56pm

meeeeh wrote: »

They asked 200 of girls about their attitudes 100 from each school. In single sex school it was 19 girls who dieted despite no need for it and in other school it was 26. You take that 'research' seriously?

And I never said wearing make up makes girls less rounded. If your intetion is to misrepresent you are doing very good job.

I take it more seriously than your anecdotal experience, yes, and I could have provided a ton more, but I figured just one was sufficient to make the point.

You used the example of girls wearing less makeup in your school as an example of a more rounded experience. It wasn’t my intention to misrepresent you at all, it was my intention to understand exactly what you meant by that, and since you wouldn’t provide me with any evidence for the correlation, I took it to mean you were referring to girls self-esteem, and on that score, your correlation based upon your experience between girls in co-ed schools and your perception that they had greater self-esteem than girls in single sex schools, just doesn’t stand up.

meeeeh · 11-03-2019 5:09pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I take it more seriously than your anecdotal experience, yes, and I could have provided a ton more, but I figured just one was sufficient to make the point.

You used the example of girls wearing less makeup in your school as an example of a more rounded experience. It wasn’t my intention to misrepresent you at all, it was my intention to understand exactly what you meant by that, and since you wouldn’t provide me with any evidence for the correlation, I took it to mean you were referring to girls self-esteem, and on that score, your correlation based upon your experience between girls in co-ed schools and your perception that they had greater self-esteem than girls in single sex schools, just doesn’t stand up.

I mean that interests and topics of conversation were less gender specific not that you became more rounded person.

Secondary School - is single gender better than co-ed?

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