Domestic pv panels and planning permission

pale rider · 13-06-2019 9:41pm #1

The sweet spot for me is a system of just over 4 kWh with a battery, this requires 13/14 panels, I would place 8 on the rear roof and 6 on the side roof, none are facing the front of the house/ road, it's a large dormer with its roofs facing three directions, when fitted the panels will look fine, not lost on the roofs.

The SEAI don't require planning permission approval but if I proceed I'm limited to 7/8 panels to meet the 12 sq metre planning exception that will not work for me.

What have others done that have had an install of Solar PV panels.?

Did you apply for planning or will you apply for retention or do nothing ?

The current planning rules seem out of touch with this new pv panel technology and the green agenda, carbon footprint etc etc.

I'm inclined to fire ahead with the install, urban area, not City, neighbours are not a problem as panels do not overlook any houses.

Any thoughts

Gumbo · 13-06-2019 10:26pm

pale rider wrote: »

The sweet spot for me is a system of just over 4 kWh with a battery, this requires 13/14 panels, I would place 8 on the rear roof and 6 on the side roof, none are facing the front of the house/ road, it's a large dormer with its roofs facing three directions, when fitted the panels will look fine, not lost on the roofs.

The SEAI don't require planning permission approval but if I proceed I'm limited to 7/8 panels to meet the 12 sq metre exception that will not work for me.

What have others done that have had an install of Solar PV panels.?

Did you apply for planning or will you apply for retention or do nothing ?

The current planning rules seem out of touch with this new pv panel technology and the green agenda, carbon footprint etc etc.

I'm inclined to fire ahead with the install, urban area, not City, neighbours are not a problem as panels do not overlook the house at rear.

Any thoughts

4kw system.
The new QCell panels are 330w I think so it can be done with 12/13 panels.
Next Gen do these ones as I seen them at the SEAI Energy show. Disclosure - they done mine too.

I have a 3kw system (10 panels). I’ll deal with the planning if and when it becomes a problem.

Hopefully planing regulations change bitnas I do the planning for a living I can apply myself if needed.

unkel · 13-06-2019 10:29pm

pale rider wrote: »

The current planning rules seem out of touch with this new pv panel technology and the green agenda, carbon footprint etc etc.

Indeed.

A lady who had plastered the full front of her roof (road facing) with PV panels was recently ordered to take them down. Probably the exception to the rule though.

I have no panels that are visible from the road, and I did not apply for PP myself

pale rider · 13-06-2019 10:38pm

Thanks for replies, That case in Limerick was due back in Court in May, I can find no update, according to the paper this person put 21 panels on the front of a semi d, quite a lot to be fair, mine are spread out across two roofs facing different directions.

I would fear being turned down as she was if I applied for retention after a complaint was lodged, unlikely as that may be.

A quick search of planning applications in my County finds just two applications purely for solar pv panels, both approved, there must be many more fitted without planning,

rolion · 13-06-2019 10:44pm

@pale
Fcuk it,do it.
Whoever reports you for breakign the planning, it has to give his/her name and the motives for objections.
It has to know and see that you did it and broke the planning 12 sqm...
You can have 12 months to appeal and there find out the person who did it.

As unkel said above, i take it that it will be more and more cases,more public exposure and some regulation will be changed under that pressure...

I just don't see anyone objecting to panels on other people houses...just cannot see it if you keep it common sense.
Except if you plan to build a big solar PV in the middle of no where,well thats a different one.

Good luck

PS
"dont take advice for starngers on boards.ie"

pale rider · 13-06-2019 10:56pm

Names of any complainant would not be available to me, I think you are mixing this up with objections received to a planning application.

I agree that any common sense install should attract no adverse comments or genuine complaints to any local planning authority, that said currently anything over 12 sq metres could be an issue, hopefully not for long, some joined up thinking is required, on the one hand 4kw grant with battery etc €3800, on the other you have to have PP for this level, ridiculous.

Gumbo · 13-06-2019 11:01pm

rolion wrote: »

@pale
Fcuk it,do it.
Whoever reports you for breakign the planning, it has to give his/her name and the motives for objections.
It has to know and see that you did it and broke the planning 12 sqm...
You can have 12 months to appeal and there find out the person who did it.

As unkel said above, i take it that it will be more and more cases,more public exposure and some regulation will be changed under that pressure...

I just don't see anyone objecting to panels on other people houses...just cannot see it if you keep it common sense.
Except if you plan to build a big solar PV in the middle of no where,well thats a different one.

Good luck

PS
"dont take advice for starngers on boards.ie"

That’s incorrect. Complaints to Planning Enforcement are completely kept private. The details of the complainant cannot and will
Not be released either under a FOI or if it goes to court.

That’s why the planning enforcement officers gather their own evidence that they stand over in court should it go that far.

There’s no such thing as 12 months for appeal or anything you’ve posted to be honest.

n97 mini · 13-06-2019 11:13pm

rolion wrote: »

@pale
Fcuk it,do it.
Whoever reports you for breakign the planning, it has to give his/her name and the motives for objections.
It has to know and see that you did it and broke the planning 12 sqm...
You can have 12 months to appeal and there find out the person who did it.

As unkel said above, i take it that it will be more and more cases,more public exposure and some regulation will be changed under that pressure...

I just don't see anyone objecting to panels on other people houses...just cannot see it if you keep it common sense.
Except if you plan to build a big solar PV in the middle of no where,well thats a different one.

Good luck

PS
"dont take advice for starngers on boards.ie"

While the laws are literally counter productive, they are the laws.

I had a 4 year battle with Kildare Co Council over a slight overhang of a gutter on our extension, during which time they told me I could be slapped with a €12.7 MILLION fine (some civil servant transposed the law from punts to euros and put the decimal point in the wrong place, so 10,000 punts became 12.7 million euros -- true story).

Anyway, as I wouldn't lie down (the gutter overhang was over our own wall, ffs!), Kildare Co Council eventually referred it to An Bord Pleanala. Their inspector came out, literally glanced at it and wrote the wrote the whole thing off. It didn't cost us a cent, but it took 4 years to settle.

In summary, if you want an easy life, don't piss off some useless anonymous jobsworth in the council.

pale rider · 13-06-2019 11:20pm

n97 mini wrote: »

While the laws are literally counter productive, they are the laws.

I had a 4 year battle with Kildare Co Council over a slight overhang of a gutter

In summary, if you want an easy life, don't piss off some useless anonymous jobsworth in the council.

That is a horror story, I do want an easy life, would dislike the hassle, that said it appears Im in the minority even thinking about applying for planning, not just with the few replies so far but from an online planning search, maybe I will check other counties online planning applications tomorrow, if the planning costs are more than something nominal then stuff my green efforts maybe I will forget the whole thing

Gumbo · 13-06-2019 11:25pm

n97 mini wrote: »

While the laws are literally counter productive, they are the laws.

I had a 4 year battle with Kildare Co Council over a slight overhang of a gutter on our extension, during which time they told me I could be slapped with a €12.7 MILLION fine (some civil servant transposed the law from punts to euros and put the decimal point in the wrong place, so 10,000 punts became 12.7 million euros -- true story).

Anyway, as I wouldn't lie down (the gutter overhang was over our own wall, ffs!), Kildare Co Council eventually referred it to An Bord Pleanala. Their inspector came out, literally glanced at it and wrote the wrote the whole thing off. It didn't cost us a cent, but it took 4 years to settle.

In summary, if you want an easy life, don't piss off some useless anonymous jobsworth in the council.

There must be more to this story.
Someone must have complained about your extension in the first place?
Then they must have referred it to ABP.

There was probably a legal argument over the exemption requirements and the term “within the curtilage of your site”.

Just because a so called jobs worth is doing their job, doesn’t mean that they deserve the bashing online about it.

pale rider · 13-06-2019 11:30pm

To be fair to n97 mini ..... we don't know the full story and the emotion is understandable, I got the key point about local Govt officialdom and understand that completely, I'm edging towards planning once nominal costs are involved, I don't care for unnecessary hassle despite my thinking this is a non issue.

n97 mini · 13-06-2019 11:50pm

kceire wrote: »

There must be more to this story.
Someone must have complained about your extension in the first place?
Then they must have referred it to ABP.

There was probably a legal argument over the exemption requirements and the term “within the curtilage of your site”.

Just because a so called jobs worth is doing their job, doesn’t mean that they deserve the bashing online about it.

Yeah, the wanker who owns the adjoining house next door complained even though he doesn't live there. He complained after I (naively) told him out of courtesy we were building an extension.

KCC themselves referred it to ABP as I had had consulted with other LA's about the definition of "curtilage" (there isn't one, legally).

I don't take calling someone a jobsworth lightly, but we had 3 separate "inspectors" call from KCC. The first said to me he saw no issues, but his report stated otherwise. The second said the extension was way over 40m2 (it's 22m2) and the third didn't even get my name right (my name isn't Mr McGrath, or even close). When the whole thing was referred to ABP, KCC sent me the file. They didn't even redact people's names!

KC, you know your stuff. The whole file, sorry and all as it is, is here any time you want to have a look.

Gumbo · 14-06-2019 9:10am

n97 mini wrote: »

Yeah, the wanker who owns the adjoining house next door complained even though he doesn't live there. He complained after I (naively) told him out of courtesy we were building an extension.

KCC themselves referred it to ABP as I had had consulted with other LA's about the definition of "curtilage" (there isn't one, legally).

I don't take calling someone a jobsworth lightly, but we had 3 separate "inspectors" call from KCC. The first said to me he saw no issues, but his report stated otherwise. The second said the extension was way over 40m2 (it's 22m2) and the third didn't even get my name right (my name isn't Mr McGrath, or even close). When the whole thing was referred to ABP, KCC sent me the file. They didn't even redact people's names!

KC, you know your stuff. The whole file, sorry and all as it is, is here any time you want to have a look.

TBH, that sounds like KCC.
They have sent similar cases like this to ABP as an exercise to get them out of having to make a decision.

I was involved in one recently, completely exempt works, neighbor was being a bo@@ox. KCC said it wasn't exempt and that because we had flashing above our side of the boundary, they rules it outside the curtilage of my clients property.

I advised to ignore all the warnings and take our day in court as we were in the right. ABP came out and ruled it exempt too.

KCC should learn from their mistakes.
Also, serious breach of standards if they released the file with complainants details in full view!

Gumbo · 14-06-2019 9:40am

pale rider wrote: »

To be fair to n97 mini ..... we don't know the full story and the emotion is understandable, I got the key point about local Govt officialdom and understand that completely, I'm edging towards planning once nominal costs are involved, I don't care for unnecessary hassle despite my thinking this is a non issue.

Planning should be straight forward, its just the time frame.
From the day you lodge the planning, assuming you get a grant, its 14 weeks before you can start the installation.

Mickeroo · 14-06-2019 10:14am

kceire wrote: »

Planning should be straight forward, its just the time frame.
From the day you lodge the planning, assuming you get a grant, its 14 weeks before you can start the installation.

Does the planning last for 5 years then? How much does it usually cost? I probably won't be getting panels in for a year or two but I wouldn't mind having planning ready to go when I do.

reklamos · 14-06-2019 10:35am

pale rider wrote: »

Thanks for replies, That case in Limerick was due back in Court in May, I can find no update, according to the paper this person put 21 panels on the front of a semi d, quite a lot to be fair, mine are spread out across two roofs facing different directions.

I would fear being turned down as she was if I applied for retention after a complaint was lodged, unlikely as that may be.

A quick search of planning applications in my County finds just two applications purely for solar pv panels, both approved, there must be many more fitted without planning,

I'm just wondering what it would take to get this restriction lifted as it does not make sense. Greens did pretty well in last election, also we have below and Ireland is lagging behind.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0613/1055135-carbon-credits/
https://www.euroheat.org/news/eu-statistics/
https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/renewable-energy

Is there anything being done to change this?

Gumbo · 14-06-2019 11:13am

Mickeroo wrote: »

Does the planning last for 5 years then? How much does it usually cost? I probably won't be getting panels in for a year or two but I wouldn't mind having planning ready to go when I do.

Yes, a granted planning lasts 5 years which can be extended in the final year for a year or 2 citing financial reasons as the reason the works were not implemented.

Cost wise, it depends if you go with an Architect, Engineer or Surveyor or Technician and where you are located. Its the same process as if you were building a 2 storey extension, newspaper ads, site notice, drawings etc

Gumbo · 14-06-2019 11:16am

reklamos wrote: »

I'm just wondering what it would take to get this restriction lifted as it does not make sense. Greens did pretty well in last election, also we have below and Ireland is lagging behind.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0613/1055135-carbon-credits/
https://www.euroheat.org/news/eu-statistics/
https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/renewable-energy

Is there anything being done to change this?

Lobby Councilors and TD's to amend the Planning and Development Act, specifically the Class that relates to Solar Panel Array exemptions.

Or at least some guidance to say whether the LA's will accept larger arrays.

pale rider · 14-06-2019 1:14pm

Having slept on it and I am still conflicted, that said life is too short and this has taken up enough head space.... the planet is dying and needs me so....... I have pulled the trigger and placed my order with my chosen installer so away we go, its my roof(s) after all, I will apply for retention if it becomes an issue.

I just hope this is changed very soon, one arm of our State ( SEAI ) providing €3800 and another arm ( Local Govt ) charged with enforcement over 12 sq metres, an inadequate size for a Solar array is plain stupid.

And it will look well when up and not obtrusive or heavily covering both roofs...that my friend is a fact and I'm sticking with it.

My installer will take them down and store them if it becomes an issue as I file for retention, now that was the push I needed and is excellent customer service in my opinion.

Mickeroo · 14-06-2019 2:14pm

pale rider wrote: »

Having slept on it and I am still conflicted, that said life is too short and this has taken up enough head space.... the planet is dying and needs me so....... I have pulled the trigger and placed my order with my chosen installer so away we go, its my roof(s) after all, I will apply for retention if it becomes an issue.

I just hope this is changed very soon, one arm of our State ( SEAI ) providing €3800 and another arm ( Local Govt ) charged with enforcement over 12 sq metres, an inadequate size for a Solar array is plain stupid.

And it will look well when up and not obtrusive or heavily covering both roofs...that my friend is a fact and I'm sticking with it.

My installer will take them down and store them if it becomes an issue as I file for retention, now that was the push I needed and is excellent customer service in my opinion.

Would be interested in a PM to know who your installer is if you don't mind.

pale rider · 14-06-2019 2:50pm

will wait for the install then happy to share...

Gumbo · 14-06-2019 4:03pm

pale rider wrote: »

will wait for the install then happy to share...

Did you get a few companies to price?
How did they fair out and compare?

pale rider · 14-06-2019 6:29pm

Yes I did a lot of research and wanted to narrow it down to three surveys, it is a lot of money with a long payback so the quality has to be good day one.

First off I'll mention those I wanted to get to survey stage.

The first guy A - He had no technical knowledge and could not answer what I considered basic questions, he had to call a technical support to answer queries, promised to send on spec sheets and didn't and finally asked me to take pictures of the price lists on my phone, this guy represents a company that is advertising smartly through pop ups, they were the most expensive by a country mile, told me he had same system on his roof but when I asked to see the app on his system working well it was down wasn't it..., he was the first I spoke with and I rushed to get to survey, I smartened up after that by screening on the phone.

The second guy B - I made an appointment with, company recommended on this site, liked their price and guy was an engineer but when I asked about the panel efficiency he quoted me watts then said he didn't understand my question, didn't call back when he said and when I mailed again several days later he called me and told me he was very busy, I cancelled that survey appointment after reflecting a little.

The next guy C - I met him as he is/was technically strong, did the survey, no rush, answered all my questions, willing to seek out alternate panels of my choosing, lots of installs completed, I was happy enough, curiously his website was not all bells and whistles and it should have been given scope of projects completed, his firm will claim the solar grant so you don't pay gross, I liked that, it was a vote of confidence in the install I felt as these are open to SEAI inspection as you know..

Last guy D - I spoke to was also clued he, I met him, did survey, also mentioned on this site, I probably would have done the deal with them but the previous guy C did me a great deal and was willing to assist if I hit a planning retention issue, also D failed the history check with the business having changed names, I'm not against doing a check on CRO.ie and I'd see that as important, if they have a good history they might be around and should come back if you have problems later.

I also learned that it is possible to get almost all the specs I wanted ( except they were Chinese panels ) delivered to my door and at a guess fitting costs of €2000 which seems generous to an Electrician / roofer would have meant a saving to me of €1800 over the price I agreed with C and after the grant.

The other lesson for those interested is do your own homework, at least some research, I spoke to several people who I didn't progress to survey stage for various reasons, mainly lack of product knowledge.

There is money in this, there will be plenty of lads/firms chasing this opportunity, the offers will become ever more confusing, buyer beware was my key take away.

Gumbo · 15-06-2019 8:46am

Might be an idea to post up specs of the quotes if we can compare. If you don’t mind of course. At least get the opinion of the products from others as there’s a various amount of batteries and panels out there. Some claiming storage capacities higher than reality etc

I think I know the company with the name change as they have been merging with smaller companies over the last 2 years or so, NGP used to be Solar Panel Ireland when I got mine fitted but exact same staff, same tech guy and same contact numbers for support.

My only gripe of been an earlier adaptor is that the stuff now is way better. The givenergy productuts are great and you can remote access the battery storage so if you know it’s going to be cloudy you can fill the batter on night rate and use during the day etc. this is what I would have went for if I hadn’t got the trannergy invertor so now I have to get AC coupled batteries and a small invertor to link everything, but then I’ll have full remote access.

Hopefully it’s not a soltorro system as I know of 3 of those removed this week. I believe at least one poster on here removed his and is sitting on the garage floor awaiting collection.

wexfordman2 · 15-06-2019 12:36pm

kceire wrote: »

Might be an idea to post up specs of the quotes if we can compare. If you don’t mind of course. At least get the opinion of the products from others as there’s a various amount of batteries and panels out there. Some claiming storage capacities higher than reality etc

I think I know the company with the name change as they have been merging with smaller companies over the last 2 years or so, NGP used to be Solar Panel Ireland when I got mine fitted but exact same staff, same tech guy and same contact numbers for support.

My only gripe of been an earlier adaptor is that the stuff now is way better. The givenergy productuts are great and you can remote access the battery storage so if you know it’s going to be cloudy you can fill the batter on night rate and use during the day etc. this is what I would have went for if I hadn’t got the trannergy invertor so now I have to get AC coupled batteries and a small invertor to link everything, but then I’ll have full remote access.

Hopefully it’s not a soltorro system as I know of 3 of those removed this week. I believe at least one poster on here removed his and is sitting on the garage floor awaiting collection.

Second that on the soltsro gear, I had it for a few months (a temp system from my installer while he was waiting for the givenergy), and have to say, i ended out disliking it intensely. Poor controls no way of adjusting charge settings, and then that was woefully, using the solarman app, nothing added up.

wexfordman2 · 15-06-2019 12:38pm

Spelling errors

Soltaro data was poor to unreliable, gave lots of contradicting data. The app was poor and there was no option for the user to adjust charging parameters.

As I said, it was put in as a temp system, and I was glad it was temporary.

wexfordman2 · 15-06-2019 12:41pm

The soltaro kit, is sitting in my house waiting for.collection, you might be referring to me, but I know also of at least one other person who has had it removed and replaced.

pale rider · 15-06-2019 1:17pm

It is not Soltaro, BTW I would have had a problem having any system fitted temporarily on my roof.

At this point I am satisfied I have done the best I could and have a great price from a company that has a history of installs including large local new developments, I wont share the specs at this juncture, I have paid my deposit and am satisfied with the level of product and company research I completed.

I think there can be glitches, this is evolving technology and my choice of system will doubtless look prehistoric in 5 years, then again I have a friend still using his Nokia 6230i that does the job for him.

I believe that when a very interested person asks for a best and last price then that should be provided and not have the customer referred to a standard pricing offering as I was, one now grumbling and annoying me by sending me several texts that I should have got back to him and roundly rubbishing whatever system I have chosen without knowing the details other than the same panels are being used for both quotes, glad I did not progress with them.

The process was a right pain really with so much conflicting information being thrown about, it is really important to do your own research, forums are great but this is your hard earned money with a long payback so research and ask questions.

Where there is profit, and there is in these installs you will have to kiss some frogs.

wexfordman2 · 15-06-2019 1:26pm

The inverter is in the attic, it wasnt an issue having it temporary. I'm only giving my experience of that kit, being lucky enough to have experience of both kits from a user perspective.

Dont mean to be disparaging or questioning your choice or decision on whichever installer are using , your samples make perfect sense and your logic . Just offering advice on my experience of the soltaro.

pale rider · 15-06-2019 1:32pm

Didn't take it that way at all wexfordman2, you guys have walked the walk ahead of me but there will be others following along and information sharing is very important.

The Technical side appears straightforward but you must dig deeper, e.g. guys drilling holes in roof tiles rather than correctly fitting the panels, there is a lot to watch out for and the bells and whistles sales guy that breezes in all confident just might be the right guy with the right system or not, homework is important, do more than read any glossy brochures.

Gumbo · 15-06-2019 2:12pm

Pale Rider. Best of luck with the install.
I hope I don’t come across as pushing for info either.

pale rider · 15-06-2019 2:40pm

Happy to share all after the install, until then its apples and oranges...

rolion · 15-06-2019 3:28pm

@pale_rider

Nice journey but your story is worse than my DIY adventure...
Great description of your logic and algorhytms used in selecting,filtering and eventually in deciding for the final supplier and thier installed kit.
Looking forward to see the product / solution that you have chosen after so much chat...

Enjoy it.

pale rider · 01-07-2019 3:57pm

Equipment panel choice, Canadian Solar 330wp or QCell 320 Wp, my sense is the QCell as it degrades less over time.

Solax X1 Hybrid inverter and Solax Triple Power 6.3kwh battery

Diverter to immersion.

Anyone with similar kit ?

n97 mini · 01-07-2019 5:12pm

pale rider wrote: »

Diverter to immersion.

Do your maths on that. It may never pay for itself. In my case it won't.

rolion · 01-07-2019 7:36pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Do your maths on that. It may never pay for itself. In my case it won't.

May i ask why !?

So,when is excess energy produced by the PV panels you are happy to feed for free Mr Grid !? To see how panels paid by your,from your pocket generates electricity and be given away !?

I respect your attitude ,i have 3MWh given for free to grid and with a diverter installed ... and not a happy man here.

n97 mini · 01-07-2019 9:16pm

rolion wrote: »

May i ask why !?

So,when is excess energy produced by the PV panels you are happy to feed for free Mr Grid !? To see how panels paid by your,from your pocket generates electricity and be given away !?

I respect your attitude ,i have 3MWh given for free to grid and with a diverter installed ... and not a happy man here.

All our water is heated by mains gas. Including vat and carbon tax it's just shy of 6c per kwh. It costs approximately €45 per year at most. Well insulated tank, only needs to be brought up a few degrees a day (we heat the tank to about 42 degrees).

At €500 a diverter I would have an 11 year payback at best, and that's assuming it would do 100% of the hot water all year round, which it wouldn't.

rolion · 01-07-2019 11:49pm

n97 mini wrote: »

All our water is heated by mains gas. Including vat and carbon tax it's just shy of 6c per kwh. It costs approximately €45 per year at most. Well insulated tank, only needs to be brought up a few degrees a day (we heat the tank to about 42 degrees).

At €500 a diverter I would have an 11 year payback at best, and that's assuming it would do 100% of the hot water all year round, which it wouldn't.

Ok, thanks for maths, in your case.
My PVs and diverter system have heated water since end of may. Didn't used a mm3 of gas since. I have to admit that the tubes are doing a great job too.

By most of the days, at lunch time, the cylinder is 70 degrees, as I like to have water for all family and myself, i take 2-3 showers daily if hot weather, so water needs to be "hot". The water...

Leaving aside the maths, for a €450 job I will prefer to see the free harvested photons and resulted "free" electrons going in to my cylinder than free, to mr grid.

Enjoy your system...

n97 mini · 01-07-2019 11:59pm

Our most recent gas bill was mid March to mid May, totalling €47, of which approx €18 is standing charge (inc vat). That's all our heating, cooking and hot water.

Like most people I only shower once a day, at about 39-40 degrees, so dumping electrons into a tank to heat water to 70 degrees and then having 3 showers a day would be a lot worse for the environment than giving the electricity to my neighbours for free.

rolion · 02-07-2019 12:11am

n97 mini wrote: »

Our most recent gas bill was mid March to mid May, totalling €47, of which approx €18 is standing charge (inc vat). That's all our heating, cooking and hot water.

Like most people I only shower once a day, at about 39-40 degrees, so dumping electrons into a tank to heat water to 70 degrees and then having 3 showers a day would be a lot worse for the environment than giving the electricity to my neighbours for free.

Thanks.

Without breaking any data protection rules, i think we may have to touch on the family side, as a most important factor… and...personal reasons for not being "like most people" !! We have an average 5-6 showers a day and a full bath in the summer. My bath takes a huge amount of water as I need to reach some sensors to power the jets.

Re environment, well, it will have to wait as personal I reckon is more important that I am looking and feeling decent when going out in a white shirt, as sitting beside my customer's desk sweating and smelling is not an option...

I cannot protect the environment , sorry. I will take full blame and for my whole family...

Again, enjoy it.

reklamos · 09-07-2019 7:53pm

The diverter is ~€350.
I have diverter and really cannot fault it.

On a side note, keeping the tank constantly at 40 degrees is not really a good idea as it is a sweet spot for legionella to multiply. It is recommended to heat it up to 60 degrees time to time.

n97 mini · 09-07-2019 9:48pm

reklamos wrote: »

The diverter is ~€350.
I have diverter and really cannot fault it.

On a side note, keeping the tank constantly at 40 degrees is not really a good idea as it is a sweet spot for legionella to multiply. It is recommended to heat it up to 60 degrees time to time.

Go back a few posts. I heat the tank to mid sixties from time to time.

I believe gshp owners do similar. The heat pump can't get to 65 by itself so the immersion heater will be set to activate every few weeks.

Charlie-Bravo · 19-07-2019 1:49pm

I have been following this forum also for several months now. Very informative and think the planning exemptions need to be relaxed considerably if the government are actually going to achieve their targets. I will be looking to get PV panels soon but fear the restriction on the planning exempt development (12 sq.m) will prevent me (with having to apply for planning) from getting a decent setup based on my available roof orientation. I currently have thermal panels which take up about 8 sq.m, so putting in 4sq.m of PV would not really be worthwhile (I also have no grant available to me). So in the meantime, I have sent emails to all local Councillors, stating the current 12sq.m is quite low and depending on orientation can be further restricted by available sun light. What I have proposed to them, and one Green Party Councillor took most interest (sending this up to TD level), is to allow for an increase of nearly double that, for roof-mounted systems. In most cases, 24sq.m wouldn't ever reach 50% of the roof area. But even getting to 18-20sq.m would benefit a lot of situations.

I am wondering if there are any others on here that are interested to lobbying the local Councillors (as they had a good run in the locals) and push the TDs to propose a Bill in relaxing exemptions under planning for domestic dwellings.

Calahonda52 · 19-07-2019 5:57pm

The grant is of no befit to you, it just inflates the price to you.
Re waiting for FIT, panel prices will go up as soon as it is announced.

Charlie-Bravo · 23-07-2019 11:32pm

Ok, seeing as An bord pleanala have approved that lady's 21-panel array, that would mean that almost 35sq.m of an array possibly allowable. i would imagine every case is different, and development plans vary in each of the council areas. I am now wondering how the government will legislate to regain control on the exempted development regulations as this could easily get silly quite quickly!

unkel · 23-07-2019 11:37pm

6kW is the maximum micro production limit the ESB allows (for now)

That's 20 panels of 300wp, so total surface 20 panels * 1.65m length * 1m width = 32M2 so yeah with a few panel gaps you are close enough

Might as well get rid of the planning requirement altogether. As with this jurisprudence anyone can plaster the front road facing side of their house with panels, and if challenged, successfully go for retention permission. I'm considering a north facing array on the front of my house now too

Gumbo · 23-07-2019 11:54pm

I’m well ahead. I’ve a 3kw (10 panel) array on my front elevation (south facing).

Coltrane · 04-12-2019 11:05am

Anyone seen any concrete news about relaxation of the planning regs re. solar panels?

There was a hint of relaxation in the Climate Action Plan, section 7.3: 'This will be further supported by measures in building regulations.' The First Progress Report on the Plan states that a working group has been established by SEAI and first met on 230919.

I'm aware of the decision of the Bord re Limerick, but think that many including myself would prefer to see the planning regs themselves changed before going above the limit.

Gumbo · 05-12-2019 5:43pm

Coltrane wrote: »

Anyone seen any concrete news about relaxation of the planning regs re. solar panels?

There was a hint of relaxation in the Climate Action Plan, section 7.3: 'This will be further supported by measures in building regulations.' The First Progress Report on the Plan states that a working group has been established by SEAI and first met on 230919.

I'm aware of the decision of the Bord re Limerick, but think that many including myself would prefer to see the planning regs themselves changed before going above the limit.

Nothing yet.
The working group focused on the technical aspects so far. Safety, and in particular safety to firefighters attending a fire in a dwelling. Signage, isolation and access to the isolation switch etc

There’s conflicting advice, guides and regulations out there in this regard at the moment.

Domestic pv panels and planning permission

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