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Major League Rugby launched in US

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    #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Do you expect him to have sent emails to that extent or made a press release....

    So it's your opinion. Fine, just not cool to attack people because they don't share your opinion (especially when you can't point to anything to back it up)


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    #93
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Leinster win 55-12


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    #94
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Leinster win 55-12

    Am sure the Leinster players will have learnt a lot from that game


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    #95
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    Stainalert wrote: »


    Am sure the Leinster players will have learnt a lot from that game

    Ye, particularly all the lads who have no chance of getting a contract.....


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    #96
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Ye, particularly all the lads who have no chance of getting a contract.....

    Might get American contracts now, better chance of a professional career than they had this time last week.

    Irish provinces are not the be-all and end-all of playing opportunities


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    #97
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Might get American contracts now, better chance of a professional career than they had this time last week.

    Irish provinces are not the be-all and end-all of playing opportunities

    And that should be considered a success for Irish rugby?


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stainalert wrote: »
    And that should be considered a success for Irish rugby?

    Yes because we are missing out of depth, because we onky have 4 teams. The more Irish eligible players, playing prifessionally, that we can call home the better.

    Not all players develop by the time academies cut them


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    #99
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Stainalert wrote: »
    And that should be considered a success for Irish rugby?

    If they are surplus to requirements at the provinces, then absolutely.


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    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    If they are surplus to requirements at the provinces, then absolutely.

    We have dozens of players culled from the provinces each year. Some of whom are potentially Pro14/Internationally standard, in their mid/late 20s but were cut from the academies for whatever reason.

    So we have all these players, end up playing AIL and never develop beyond that whereas if they were in Pro leagues would be viable options for a call back to Provinces/International should they develop to their potential.
    As I threw out earlier, in the past decade I trained with two such lads in Darragh and Robbie.


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    #101
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes because we are missing out of depth, because we onky have 4 teams. The more Irish eligible players, playing prifessionally, that we can call home the better.

    Not all players develop by the time academies cut them

    Pretty one eyed view of looking at things through professional rugby goggles.
    Ignoring your own domestic game and exporting players certainly hasn't worked for the FAI. In rugby terms it has hurt South Africa badly. For me a strong domestic club league would be a far more preferable solution for a whole host of reasons.


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    #102
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We have dozens of players culled from the provinces each year. Some of whom are potentially Pro14/Internationally standard, in their mid/late 20s but were cut from the academies for whatever reason.

    So we have all these players, end up playing AIL and never develop beyond that whereas if they were in Pro leagues would be viable options for a call back to Provinces/International should they develop to their potential.
    As I threw out earlier, in the past decade I trained with two such lads in Darragh and Robbie.

    AIL is a better standard than MLR


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    #103
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Pretty one eyed view of looking at things through professional rugby goggles.
    Ignoring your own domestic game and exporting players certainly hasn't worked for the FAI. In rugby terms it has hurt South Africa badly. For me a strong domestic club league would be a far more preferable solution for a whole host of reasons.
    Stainalert wrote: »
    AIL is a better standard than MLR

    Are players who want to earn a living in rugby supposed to take these things into account?
    The provinces aren't competing with MLR on salary levels, this is nothing like what has happened to South Africa. South African rugby has external marco-economic factors that it cannot control and is losing international players.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stainalert wrote: »
    AIL is a better standard than MLR

    And are AIL players doing anything at all for the growth of the professional game (or the game in general) at all in Ireland?

    IRFU (rightly or wrongly) have focused in on the schools, academies, provinces as their primary route of player development. What are late developers meant to do, in your "wide" view? Or players who never went through the schools system so were overlooked by academies, as their club underage coaching could not develop them quickly enough?


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    #105
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Stainalert wrote: »
    And that should be considered a success for Irish rugby?
    What of the players personally and
    Stainalert wrote: »
    Pretty one eyed view of looking at things through professional rugby goggles.
    Ignoring your own domestic game and exporting players certainly hasn't worked for the FAI. In rugby terms it has hurt South Africa badly. For me a strong domestic club league would be a far more preferable solution for a whole host of reasons.
    Says yourself who is only seeing it in eyes of your club alone. A considerably strong domestic club league is fine but isnt going to happen
    Stainalert wrote: »
    AIL is a better standard than MLR
    Says who? You and who else? And should players who want to earn full time from the game and be a full time professional should do what then?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    And are AIL players doing anything at all for the growth of the professional game (or the game in general) at all in Ireland?

    IRFU (rightly or wrongly) have focused in on the schools, academies, provinces as their primary route of player development. What are late developers meant to do, in your "wide" view? Or players who never went through the schools system so were overlooked by academies, as their club underage coaching could not develop them quickly enough?
    AIL club game is doing huge things for growth of the sport.
    IRFU has focused on underage game not simply schools to help player participation etc but AIL is played by all players before they go on to be regulars in the professional game.


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    #106
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Are players who want to earn a living in rugby supposed to take these things into account?
    The provinces aren't competing with MLR on salary levels, this is nothing like what has happened to South Africa. South African rugby has external marco-economic factors that it cannot control and is losing international players.

    The Cara Cup is a competition supported by the IRFU at the expense of their own national league. The IRFU's actual role is to build and promote rugby at all levels in Ireland (and not just professional). Of course players can do what they want and fair play to them but that is nothing to do with my argument (As an aside I am fairly sure a lot of them would take the quality of the rugby into account). It is not the IRFU's role to support other unions or leagues who will ultimately compete with Irish provinces to sign players - yes that is not happening directly now but it won't be long before American teams start looking further down the supply chain for players and will actually be competing with the Irish provinces for players.

    The comparison with South Africa is perfectly valid - There are hundreds of South Africans playing outside SA not just internationals, Kenyon Knox in Munster for example. Assuming he makes a good go of it over here he will be lost to South African rugby. One of the reasons South Africa has suffered is because the quality of their own domestic rugby is declining.


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    #107
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And are AIL players doing anything at all for the growth of the professional game (or the game in general) at all in Ireland?

    IRFU (rightly or wrongly) have focused in on the schools, academies, provinces as their primary route of player development. What are late developers meant to do, in your "wide" view? Or players who never went through the schools system so were overlooked by academies, as their club underage coaching could not develop them quickly enough?

    Yes - The AIL week in week out develops many Irish players who go on to climb up the professional ranks. It's value as a development tool for Irish players is massively underrated.


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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    AIL club game is doing huge things for growth of the sport.
    IRFU has focused on underage game not simply schools to help player participation etc but AIL is played by all players before they go on to be regulars in the professional game.

    AIL clubs are but the players (because of the structures) are not, there are players of good professional standard playing in the clubs. They will never be able to advance to their potential, and that is always going to hamper the game development. The AIL just does not have the public imagination anymore, the days of potentially seeing thousands at a game are gone.

    The AIL is being used as a proving ground for players already identified, allowing for the IRFU to not have to create playing opportunities for their up and coming players.
    The AIL is not being used to scout players though, like the MLR would/should do.

    I know that the IRFU are trying to redress the imbalance between schools and clubs but there is no way that you can say the same kid would have equal developmental opportunities in either club or school. Schools players are given professional level coaching and development, clubs underage are run by volunteers doing their level best with what side patch they get to train on.


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    #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Yes - The AIL week in week out develops many Irish players who go on to climb up the professional ranks. It's value as a development tool for Irish players is massively underrated.

    How many players, cut from the academies, go to AIL and get professional contract in Ireland?


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    #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stainalert wrote: »
    The Cara Cup is a competition supported by the IRFU at the expense of their own national league. The IRFU's actual role is to build and promote rugby at all levels in Ireland (and not just professional).

    What national league do the teams have?
    They are trying to develop the players, in the provincial set up, with their move sets and under the eye of their own coaches and fitness staff. The AIL is not going to do that for them.


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    #111
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,607 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    I've no issue with the actual Cara Cup games themselves, in fact I think the more opportunities young lads have to play in representative sides for provinces, the better. As it gives them an avenue on top of playing with AIL sides to showcase their abilities to Leinster management, and other provinces as well.

    The main issue is just the timing of the games. This time of year is always going to be crunch time for AIL sides, be it teams fighting relegation, or trying to get into playoff positions, and the IRFU would have been well aware of it. Granted some players did turn down going on the tour due to this, but others may have seen this as their opportunity to push for a sub-academy spot.

    I just think it should have been managed a bit better by the IRFU in terms of timing. There's a disconnect lately between the IRFU and the clubs over the whole proposals for restructuring the league, and things like this aren't going to help that us vs them mentality that's starting to set in within pockets of the AIL clubs and their members.


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    #112
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What national league do the teams have?
    They are trying to develop the players, in the provincial set up, with their move sets and under the eye of their own coaches and fitness staff. The AIL is not going to do that for them.

    Strongly disagree. The AIL is doing it for them and has been doing a good job of it for years. The real question is how can it do it better. Greater linkage between clubs and their respective Professional team is one, more academy / fringe pros players playing in the league (and thus increasing the quality of the rugby product) is another.


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    #113
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How many players, cut from the academies, go to AIL and get professional contract in Ireland?

    Plenty Tom Farrell, Matt Healy, Craig Ronaldson, Shane Delahunt, Dave Heffernan, Tom Daly.


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    #114
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,607 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Plenty Tom Farrell, Matt Healy, Craig Ronaldson, Shane Delahunt, Dave Heffernan, Tom Daly.

    From Clontarf alone, over the last few years we've had a number of players called up and gotten provincial contracts, granted some only short term deals but still. Mick McGrath, Matt D'Arcy, Collie O'Shea, Royce Burke-Flynn, Ivan Soroka, Tony Ryan.


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    #115
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Putting more emphasis on the AIL than schools rugby would be a start

    The U18 and U20 teams in clubs need to gain more importance than the schools rugby.


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    #116
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭Blut2


    On top of the very valid adding depth to the professional player numbers argument, surely the wishes of the players deserve to be factored in here too. I know if I was a 22 year old young lad I'd have been over the moon at a contract offer to go play rugby for a couple of years in the US - it'd be the experience of a lifetime. If the Cara Cup makes that a reality for more of the guys then its a great thing.


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    #117
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    https://twitter.com/pauleddison/status/1117757569601351686?s=21


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    #118
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,187 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The Leinster A's were miles better than the Freejacks.
    The only lads I recognized at the match were Ronan Kelleher; Jack Kelly Gavin Mullin and Jimmy O Brien.
    Leinsters #7 was particularly good as was the #4.
    I think Vakh was the lh?
    For the Freejacks, there was nothing of note to remember as they were annihilated and really exposed defensively.
    Thought Mullin was good and Leinsters #4 was the best player on the field.
    The attendance was ok. I reckon 1500 to 2200.
    Coach Smith will be working his email trying to sign some of the Leinster lads.
    I know he has spoke to Mitchell from Connacht about playing for N.E.
    Leader was the 10 for N.E. I don't know how good he can be, playing on a poor side!
    Anyhow, I hope mlr is here to stay.


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    #119
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Bastareaud is joining New York next season.


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    #120
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,601 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Thinking of going to a New York game next week.


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    #121
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Bastareaud is joining New York next season.

    Wow, that's a pretty legit signing. Wonder what the wage packet is like?


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