How to fix antisocial areas

handlemaster · 20-02-2020 8:10pm #1

There are lots of antisocial estates in Ireland. How can this be fixed realistically. Jobs are of no interest to some people. But what can be done when crime is being committed ? Perhaps a simple idea like every house have a Ring door bell installed and the subsequent footage pulled by the gardai when an instant happens. Perhaps support from the local council with cost could be raised.

Fireball81 · 20-02-2020 8:12pm

Not an easy fix.

Includes parents taking ownership for their little darlings actions.

Pride and respect- not sure these will ever be 'standard' again.

vriesmays · 20-02-2020 8:13pm

Don't buy in an estate. Even the nicest ones will eventually have a house sold to the council.

handlemaster · 20-02-2020 8:14pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Don't buy in an estate. Even the nicest ones will eventually have a house sold to the council.

How does that fix the antisocial behaviour.

AulWan · 20-02-2020 8:16pm

Here we go, yet another thread, bashing social housing and tarring all it's occupants with the same brush.

How many is that today, three?

Empty_Space · 20-02-2020 8:17pm

Make AulWan president.

vriesmays · 20-02-2020 8:18pm

Not all social housing, Waterford has an estate full of students renting. Was a nightmare a few years back.

tastyt · 20-02-2020 8:18pm

More Guards everywhere, more prison places, judges that give serious sentences, parents that give a **** where their little rats are.

Basically they have to have something to fear and respect like all the above.

Pie in the sky in this country though

DubCount · 20-02-2020 8:20pm

Enforcement. If parents don't control their children, bring back borstal !!

Spleerbun · 20-02-2020 8:20pm

AulWan wrote: »

Here we go, yet another thread, bashing social housing and tarring all it's occupants with the same brush.

How many is that today, three?

Agreed. Better everyone buries their heads and doesn't discuss these issues

Taylor365 · 20-02-2020 8:21pm

Social and council housing shouldn't been seen as giving to the scum of the earth.

It should be a sustainable money maker for the government.

Not here though, it's a grab what you can country :pac:

handlemaster · 20-02-2020 8:25pm

AulWan wrote: »

Here we go, yet another thread, bashing social housing and tarring all it's occupants with the same brush.

How many is that today, three?

Dont know.I haven't been on boards all day. Think you should get out and about

Cuddlesworth · 20-02-2020 8:33pm

handlemaster wrote: »

There are lots of antisocial estates in Ireland. How can this be fixed realistically. Jobs are of no interest to some people. But what can be done when crime is being committed ? Perhaps a simple idea like every house have a Ring door bell installed and the subsequent footage pulled by the gardai when an instant happens. Perhaps support from the local council with cost could be raised.

The option that has worked so far has been to mix social housing with private. And not put huge amounts of them in isolated estates.

tabby aspreme · 20-02-2020 8:45pm

A big help to sorting antisocial behavior would be a working justice system, with proper bail, and less concurrent sentences.

We already have an Aul Wan for a president, we don't need another.

Cuddlesworth · 20-02-2020 8:47pm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

A big help to sorting antisocial behavior would be a working justice system, with proper bail, and less concurrent sentences.

We already have an Aul Wan for a president, we don't need another.

America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. How is it working out for them?

You put a person in jail, give them a criminal record, you take away their options.

questionmark? · 20-02-2020 9:59pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. How is it working out for them?

You put a person in jail, give them a criminal record, you take away their options.

That's true in theory. But that theory presumes that the lads/lassies that would be getting jailed actually want jobs, which more often than not they don't. The nice approach ain't working time to start jailing those that continually break the law with tough sentences.

elperello · 20-02-2020 10:12pm

Stop referring to crime as "anti social behavior".

A crime is a crime.

mullinr2 · 20-02-2020 10:26pm

Sinn Fein will send down their hardmen from the North. That'll sort the problem out.

mikemac2 · 20-02-2020 10:28pm

Deport our criminals to Australia like the olden days

BanditLuke · 20-02-2020 10:28pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Don't buy in an estate. Even the nicest ones will eventually have a house sold to the council.

And?

Lc2020 · 20-02-2020 10:28pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Don't buy in an estate. Even the nicest ones will eventually have a house sold to the council.

So prospective buyers should be streched even further and forced to buy outside their means due to the government's complacency in addressing this systemic problem. Housing estates should be seen as attractive places to live. Fyi, plenty of houses have been let to the council in my own estate and there hasn't been a noticeable increase in antisocial behaviour. I don't believe this is a class issue. Youths from affluent and impoverished backgrounds alike spell havock day in day out for one simple reason, they won't be brought to book.

snip

BanditLuke · 20-02-2020 10:31pm

AulWan wrote: »

Here we go, yet another thread, bashing social housing and tarring all it's occupants with the same brush.

How many is that today, three?

At least. It's all a bit pathetic really.

Spanish Eyes · 20-02-2020 10:35pm

People are concerned about this. Don't knock it. We all have a voice in a democracy or so I thought.

J_1980 · 20-02-2020 10:40pm

Taylor365 wrote: »

Social and council housing shouldn't been seen as giving to the scum of the earth.

It should be a sustainable money maker for the government.

Not here though, it's a grab what you can country :pac:

THIS!!

Unbelievable the free stuff handed out here. Even the supposedly right win parties (FG) support that.

Only hope is that the next recession (without a banking crisis, so there are no scapegoats) makes life so unbearable for the Irish middle class that people finally see that scam. This would need to be some epic and drawn out event though: earnings recession with collapsing tax receipts and 5+ years long - like the 80’s but without a domestic/own currency.

Lc2020 · 20-02-2020 10:44pm

J_1980 wrote: »

THIS!!

Unbelievable the free stuff handed out here..

Making sweeping unsubstantiated claims like that only serves to demonstrate how deluded you really are.

If the free stuff was really and truly there for the taking, we wouldn't be at full employment. So try use your brain next time you comment maybe?

Enter name here · 20-02-2020 10:46pm

Easy fix, pack them all up and move them over to Tallaght. Then Aulwan can tell us how wonderful it is to have social housing and private all mixed in together.
Or we could start to prosecute and incarcerate the great unwashed and they might just get the message.

Surely you have some spare room don't you Aulwan?

20-02-2020 10:46pm

Anti social behavior doesn't just happen in social housing estates.
It happens everywhere
& it is entirely personal, some people think young people sitting in a group together listening to music & messing is anti social behavior, some people think that kids kicking footballs off their side walls which are on a green area is anti social.
Some people think that drug dealing in open areas is anti social.
Others think that their neighbors having drinks & music in their garden is anti social.
It can happen everywhere because everyone has different definitions for anti social behavior based on what they accept as acceptable!

Pronto63 · 20-02-2020 10:46pm

Child benefit in cash for first child only.

For second and subsequent kids it should be increased and given as a tax credit/rebate of some sort. That way only workers receive it.

We want “workers” reproducing not skangers.

Workers won’t have feral offspring running amuck!

20-02-2020 10:48pm

Pronto63 wrote: »

Workers won’t have feral offspring running amuck!

This is definitely not true!!

completedit · 20-02-2020 10:48pm

Education, education. Education

elperello · 20-02-2020 10:49pm

mullinr2 wrote: »

Sinn Fein will send down their hardmen from the North. That'll sort the problem out.

Would they get past the doorman at The Shelbourne?

Lc2020 · 20-02-2020 10:51pm

Pronto63 wrote: »

Workers won’t have feral offspring running amuck!

Brilliant, it's funny how everyone is trying to distance themselves from an issue that their son/daughter may very well be implicit in. Did you ever just stop and think for a second that maybe you're part of the problem. Or does that not fit with your narrative. The classism here is quite concerning really

BanditLuke · 20-02-2020 10:53pm

Look at the damage done to our economy and society by some of the big wig bankers living in places like Foxrock and Malahide. Now that's real anti social behaviour. Disgraceful. Let's tar everyone living in those areas because of the actions of a few.

con747 · 20-02-2020 10:54pm

Go back to being allowed give your kids a kick up the arse and a slap on the back of the head for being a little shi*head. No respect or manners on kids these days from all backgrounds.

J_1980 · 20-02-2020 10:58pm

Lc2020 wrote: »

Making sweeping unsubstantiated claims like that only serves to demonstrate how deluded you really are.

If the free stuff was really and truly there for the taking, we wouldn't be at full employment. So try use your brain next time you comment maybe?

Full employment - Oh really?
https://www.thejournal.ie/jobless-households-3832381-Feb2018/

“ALMOST ONE IN six Irish households has no adults of working age in employment, according to the Department of Social Protection.

A jobless household is one where no adult in the household it working, it excludes households made up completely of students or adults over 65.”

Well anyway the bill will come when the truly unemployed (losing their jobs) get added to the dole. €160bn of new debt in the last recession - 40bn for the banks and no one asks about the other €120bn??

Next recession?: Without much room for tax increases (lpt, usc, highest marginal tax rate in eurozone, highest vat already introduced) times will be funny ðŸ˜† Most Irish people are totally oblivious to what’s coming. We shall see.

Enter name here · 20-02-2020 10:58pm

BanditLuke wrote: »

Look at the damage done to our economy and society by some of the big wig bankers living in places like Foxrock and Malahide. Now that's real anti social behaviour. Disgraceful. Let's tar everyone living in those areas because of the actions of a few.

And if we were allowed to fence off Malahide and make it a gated community we would. The only trouble we have is from visiting snot nosed teenagers who copy their parents behaviour from neighbouring social estates.

BanditLuke · 20-02-2020 11:05pm

Enter name here wrote: »

And if we were allowed to fence off Malahide and make it a gated community we would. The only trouble we have is from visiting snot nosed teenagers who copy their parents behaviour from neighbouring social estates.

Course you've questioned them all and know they all are from social housing.

Funny that the only serious trouble we've ever had in our estate was a 17yo from Ballsbridge stab a local lad at his front door in front of his 7 year old sister.

Maybe we should fence our estate off from visiting snot nosed teenagers who copy their parents behaviour from neighbouring private estates.

Enter name here · 20-02-2020 11:08pm

BanditLuke wrote: »

Course you've questioned them all and know they all are from social housing.

Funny that the only serious trouble we've ever had in our estate was a 17yo from Ballsbridge stab a local lad at his front door in front of his 7 year old sister.

Maybe we should fence our estate off from visiting snot nosed teenagers who copy their parents behaviour from neighbouring private estates.

In fairness that teenager from Ballsbridge was from part of the mandatory 10% social housing on all new builds. Nice try though.

Although we would be happy to fund your fence if you wish to turn your estate into a private estate, although we would likely retain the key and only allow you out under strict supervision.

Vivienne23 · 20-02-2020 11:43pm

Ok first thing is there should be no one collecting any sort of social welfare without doing something for society ( unless of course for the disabled , sick or elderly )

I often see our local council workers out collecting rubbish on the roads etc , this should be done by dole workers , and I don’t mean it should be all this kind of work it could be cleaning up local amenities if it was only for 2/3 hours a day , everyone has to be at work for 8am and failure to show up dole gone ,

For the housing part there’s local social estates and I wouldn’t take a present of a house in them , everyone on top of everyone’s business but they literally spend all day just hanging around until dole day , I know of a couple of hardworking young couples who would gladly rent these houses with them but you haven’t a hope against the dolers ,

It all comes back to working , if your willing to work and can work the state should look after you as best they can but if you do not contribute to society you should get absolutely nothing that wouldn’t be long getting the message through ! And if your contributing to society you won’t have time for anti social behaviour

20-02-2020 11:45pm

Vivienne23 wrote: »

Ok first thing is there should be no one collecting any sort of social welfare without doing something for society ( unless of course for the disabled , sick or elderly )

I often see our local council workers out collecting rubbish on the roads etc , this should be done by dole workers , and I don’t mean it should be all this kind of work it could be cleaning up local amenities if it was only for 2/3 hours a day , everyone has to be at work for 8am and failure to show up dole gone ,

For the housing part there’s local social estates and I wouldn’t take a present of a house in them , everyone on top of everyone’s business but they literally spend all day just hanging around until dole day , I know of a couple of hardworking young couples who would gladly rent these houses with them but you haven’t a hope against the dolers ,

It all comes back to working , if your willing to work and can work the state should look after you as best they can but if you do not contribute to society you should get absolutely nothing that wouldn’t be long getting the message through ! And if your contributing to society you won’t have time for anti social behaviour

So what does any of this have to do with anti social behavior?

Vivienne23 · 20-02-2020 11:46pm

bubblypop wrote: »

So what does any of this have to do with anti social behavior?

Read the last line

Kav_Piero · 20-02-2020 11:52pm

It's impossible to fix in my opinion, teenagers in my area have no respect for anything and do not fear the law. I regularly hear people using the excuse of "there's nothing for them to do, we need more amenities in the area" It's absolute nonsense scum will always be scum.

For example we have a few football pitches in the area which are used by 4 or 5 local football teams, it offers a perfect opportunity for youngsters to keep busy by joining a team, it will improve their mental and physical health and will likely reduce their chances of getting into trouble. The goal mouth of these pitches have been set on fire numerous times in the last year. It's always going to be a mentality issue not an area issue.

20-02-2020 11:53pm

Vivienne23 wrote: »

Read the last line

Rubbish
Your whole post was about people on the dole.
Anti social behavior happens everywhere

BanditLuke · 20-02-2020 11:58pm

Enter name here wrote: »

In fairness that teenager from Ballsbridge was from part of the mandatory 10% social housing on all new builds. Nice try though.

Although we would be happy to fund your fence if you wish to turn your estate into a private estate, although we would likely retain the key and only allow you out under strict supervision.

No if you can just hang a bell around your neck to warn others you are coming that would be wonderful although being from Malahide we'll most likely hear you first, roight.

Turns out the chap from Ballsbridge went to a private school. It's okay though mammy and daddy got him a good lawyer and he paid a fine and promised to be a good boy to mommy.

L1011 · 21-02-2020 12:06am

Standards of civility on this thread are below par, and if they continue there will be more action taken than the basic post editing done so far

Always Tired · 21-02-2020 12:22am

Vivienne23 wrote: »

Ok first thing is there should be no one collecting any sort of social welfare without doing something for society ( unless of course for the disabled , sick or elderly )

I often see our local council workers out collecting rubbish on the roads etc , this should be done by dole workers , and I don’t mean it should be all this kind of work it could be cleaning up local amenities if it was only for 2/3 hours a day , everyone has to be at work for 8am and failure to show up dole gone ,

I always have to laugh when people come up with these strategies. If it was up to me I'd.... and then its something so simplistic and unworkable it's clear they have no clue about the issue.

First of all, do you realize having the unemployed 'work for their dole' would completely undercut waged work, making the minimum wage irrelevant? Think about it.

Your strategy is to replace council workers with those on the dole. Great job. Guess the council workers will have to do what then? Go on the dole? And then what, do their old job for way less money. Honestly, think it through a bit further.

Btw, there are loads of CE scheme workers already doing cleaning and landscaping of estates ,but it's voluntary and they get 20 euro on top of the dole. We also have people who do litter cleanup for community service. So take that on board - we have council workers, CE scheme and community service already doing this.

You don't have any real insight to this issue, you're just a dole basher. Otherwise you would suggest linking people to actual paid work. But you want to force them to pick up rubbish on the road, because you want to punish them, not help them. What if they are educated and trained for a professional field but unable to get work in it, why should they be made to pick up litter, how is that helping anyone?

You need to cop on in more ways than one I'm afraid.

First thing to consider is whether the system actually wants to fix these issues at all. Without the riffraff in the district courts, where would the wages for the solicitors, cops, judges etc come from? The solicitors get the legal aid money, the courts get heaps of money from fines.

I live in a council estate where the worst criminal in it is on disability for epilepsy. So how do you implement your genius system in a case like that, you can't force them to work and can't take away their payment under those circumstances.

Stop thinking that the reason these problems continue to fester is because there hasnt been someone as smart or as tough as you who has come along and tried to fix them. I can assure you that is not the reason.

Eric Cartman · 21-02-2020 12:28am

Limit social housing and HAP rentals so that no more than 10% total of an estate can be either , calling the gardai and tusla often , for every crime, letting little billy spray paint walls at 12 and letting his ma not give a sh*t is how you get 18 year old billy the car thieving drug dealer.

Space out social housing and stagger age profiles, if there isnt a gang of kids all becoming teens around the same time the problems will be less.

Limit the amount of lone parents that can be in the social mix of any estate.

Reform laws to cut off child benefit if your child isnt attending school 95% of the time, remove misbehaving tenants from social housing if theres more than 5 incidents of the gardai called in any 5 year period.

Vivienne23 · 21-02-2020 12:36am

Always Tired wrote: »

I always have to laugh when people come up with these strategies. If it was up to me I'd.... and then its something so simplistic and unworkable it's clear they have no clue about the issue.

First of all, do you realize having the unemployed 'work for their dole' would completely undercut waged work, making the minimum wage irrelevant? Think about it.

Your strategy is to replace council workers with those on the dole. Great job. Guess the council workers will have to do what then? Go on the dole? And then what, do their old job for way less money. Honestly, think it through a bit further.

Btw, there are loads of CE scheme workers already doing cleaning and landscaping of estates ,but it's voluntary and they get 20 euro on top of the dole. We also have people who do litter cleanup for community service. So take that on board - we have council workers, CE scheme and community service already doing this.

You don't have any real insight to this issue, you're just a dole basher. Otherwise you would suggest linking people to actual paid work. But you want to force them to pick up rubbish on the road, because you want to punish them, not help them. What if they are educated and trained for a professional field but unable to get work in it, why should they be made to pick up litter, how is that helping anyone?

You need to cop on in more ways than one I'm afraid.

First thing to consider is whether the system actually wants to fix these issues at all. Without the riffraff in the district courts, where would the wages for the solicitors, cops, judges etc come from? The solicitors get the legal aid money, the courts get heaps of money from fines.

I live in a council estate where the worst criminal in it is on disability for epilepsy. So how do you implement your genius system in a case like that, you can't force them to work and can't take away their payment under those circumstances.

Stop thinking that the reason these problems continue to fester is because there hasnt been someone as smart or as tough as you who has come along and tried to fix them. I can assure you that is not the reason.

Agreed I am a dolebasher 100% ,

I did exclude the sick , of course the sick, elderly disabled should get help,

Don't worry about the council workers jobs, plenty of jobs for the boys

Couldn't care less about solicitors etc

Can't find work in your field, find a different field or emigrate just do something

CE schemes are brilliant ! I'm glad they get the extra €20 they deserve it and do great work

I just gave an opinion on my opinion on how to fix it , but don't worry I won't implement it just yet, :rolleyes:

Brock Turnpike · 21-02-2020 12:39am

Bring back cat o' nine tails.

21-02-2020 12:39am

Vivienne23 wrote: »

Agreed I am a dolebasher 100% ,

I did exclude the sick , of course the sick, elderly disabled should get help,

Don't worry about the council workers jobs, plenty of jobs for the boys

Couldn't care less about solicitors etc

Can't find work in your field, find a different field or emigrate just do something

CE schemes are brilliant ! I'm glad they get the extra €20 they deserve it and do great work

I just gave an opinion on my opinion on how to fix it , but don't worry I won't implement it just yet, :rolleyes:

You do realise that anti social behavior happens everywhere, not just social housing estates yes?

LirW · 21-02-2020 12:41am

vriesmays wrote: »

Not all social housing, Waterford has an estate full of students renting. Was a nightmare a few years back.

Excuse my ignorance, but I hear this quite a lot that areas with a high student population are to be avoided. May I ask why?
My hometown on the continent is a big university city and I lived in an area with big student population since it was a stone throw away from one of the big institutions. I had several student shares in my building where I lived as a single with a small child and I never once had a problem there, it was a great place to live and I paid good money to live there.

How to fix antisocial areas

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