Council Inspection of Private Rental

_Kaiser_ · 15-12-2019 4:37pm #1

Hi folks,

So in my 20+ years of private renting, I received a letter on Friday about something I've never had before - a notice that the local council is planning to inspect my current residence within the next month or so.

I'm renting this place for just over 2 years now and being honest, there's probably stuff that could be done. The hinges on some of the windows are warped (and were like that when I moved in) so you need to shove them closed from the outside if you open them, there's unslightly plaster gaps above the fuse box and in the under-stairs toilet, the front and back door could do with some draft excluding work and other minor things like that.

But, anything significant that has been needed (very little to be honest) the landlord has had taken care of immediately and we have a very good relationship - essentially, I leave him alone unless something significant comes up, and vice versa.

But looking at this and the referred to info on Citizens Information, I can see some of these nonsense requirements costing potentially significant money and/or aggravation for both of us, stuff like:

"Windows that are located above a certain height are fitted with safety restrictors, in order to prevent falls" - no kids (young or otherwise) live in the house so this is totally unnecessary, but I've heard can be expensive to retrofit.

"A clothes-dryer if the dwelling does not have a private garden or yard" - a dryer would be handy (and I was thinking of one myself) as although it's an end of terrace house, there's no garded as such.. just a wrap-around drive for car parking shared by the other houses in the row (it's actually more like a duplex apartment really in many ways).

"A fire blanket" - don't have this either, nor any extinguishers. There's 2 alarms in the place, neither of which I've heard a peep from.

The letter doesn't give any suggested dates or times either (presumably these people reckon tenants can just sit around all day in case they decide to show up), but there is a contact name.. who to be very honest I'm thinking of calling on Monday and asking WTF they think they at in the current climate potentially risking a person's tenancy (because let's be honest.. if my or any other LL decides it's not worth the hassle/expense, that's what happens - as I know happened to someone on a HAP tenancy where the LL announced they were "moving back in" instead).

So my question is, unlike HAP tenancies where the council can just not pay the LL for non-compliance - how much authority and penalty can this shower enforce if my LL similarly agrees that this is petty nonsense. I'd be far more impressed if they announced they were going to sound-proof and insulate the place properly (it's about 15 or so years old so the experience of hearing door closing from next door - or even further up the row - is common)

Cheers.

Peter File · 15-12-2019 5:03pm

a fire blanket is a legal requirement as are working smoke detectors. They are essential for your safety.

Gumbo · 15-12-2019 5:28pm

Private rented inspections.
People screamed for this, so this will be the new norm. They expect to inspect most properties once every 4 years.

Window restrictors. Required. Cheap and can diy install. I done my own rented property and crap at diy. They cost less than €13 per window. https://www.lenehans.ie/locks-security/window-security/window-restrictors.html

Date and time of inspection - you touch base with them and they will inspect at a time convenient to both parties.

Enforcement power of officers. Your landlord will find themselves in court if the changes are not made and a criminal conviction if he/she ignores this.

Mrs OBumble · 15-12-2019 10:10pm

kceire wrote: »

Private rented inspections.
People screamed for this, so this will be the new norm. They expect to inspect most properties once every 4 years.

When they get to my apartment, I hope they bring the heritage officer for a spat about keeping it looking the way it did vs meeting kid-safe requirements.

Cos if the heritage guy doesn't win, I'll be homeless and my landlord will be unable to meet the planning requirements.

Again no kids here. But a very unique window design which cannot be changed without a total window change.

antoinolachtnai · 15-12-2019 10:34pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

When they get to my apartment, I hope they bring the heritage officer for a spat about keeping it looking the way it did vs meeting kid-safe requirements.

Cos if the heritage guy doesn't win, I'll be homeless and my landlord will be unable to meet the planning requirements.

Again no kids here. But a very unique window design which cannot be changed without a total window change.

You can put a restrictor on almost any window. If the worst comes to the worst you can use the keyed cable type although they are not recommended.

Gumbo · 15-12-2019 11:01pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

When they get to my apartment, I hope they bring the heritage officer for a spat about keeping it looking the way it did vs meeting kid-safe requirements.

Cos if the heritage guy doesn't win, I'll be homeless and my landlord will be unable to meet the planning requirements.

Again no kids here. But a very unique window design which cannot be changed without a total window change.

Restrictions are out on all protected structures here in Dublin. You can get discrete ones, built in ones and retro fit ones.

The link I posted in post #3 contains some that can be used.

Conservation officer has an important role, but they will sway for fire safety or health and safety requirements.

Gumbo · 15-12-2019 11:03pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You can put a restrictor on almost any window. If the worst comes to the worst you can use the keyed cable type although they are not recommended.

The cable type are available now without a key. It’s a push button mechanism and exactly what I put into my rental property.

Slydice · 15-12-2019 11:48pm

I'm confused. Are these inspections being done to everyone who is renting or just those who are

renting accommodation under the Housing Assistance Payment (HAP) scheme

massy086 · 16-12-2019 12:13am

kceire wrote: »

The cable type are available now without a key. It’s a push button mechanism and exactly what I put into my rental property.

the cable ones do not meet the requirements.as they are not re-engaging.i have had a good few landlords tell me this and then ask me to fit the correct one,s

Goodigal · 16-12-2019 12:17am

Slydice wrote: »

I'm confused. Are these inspections being done to everyone who is renting or just those who are

All private rented dwellings are meant to be inspected by environmental health officers. Not trying to catch people out or lead to difficulties with landlords, but to ensure rented accommodation is at a decent standard. They inspect HAP properties too but not exclusively.

splinter65 · 16-12-2019 12:20am

Slydice wrote: »

I'm confused. Are these inspections being done to everyone who is renting or just those who are

All rented properties.

Gumbo · 16-12-2019 12:45am

Slydice wrote: »

I'm confused. Are these inspections being done to everyone who is renting or just those who are

All rented properties. They hope to hit all once every 4 years.

Gumbo · 16-12-2019 12:48am

massy086 wrote: »

the cable ones do not meet the requirements.as they are not re-engaging.i have had a good few landlords tell me this and then ask me to fit the correct one,s

That’s not correct. I recently fitted the cable type to my properties which passed the HAP inspections.

Furthermore there is no mention of re-engagement in the building regulations.

Part K – Stairways, Ladders, Ramps and Guards Section 2.7. states the following:
Section 2.7

In dwellings where a window has an opening section through which a person may fall, (having particular regard to children under five years old), and is more than 1400 mm above external ground level, suitable safety restrictors should be provided.

Safety restrictors should restrain the window sufficiently to prevent such falls. Restrictors can be either an integral part of the window operating gear or separate items of hardware which can be fitted to a window at the time of manufacture or at installation. Restrictors should operate so that they limit the initial movement of an opening section to not more than 100 mm.

Part B – Fire Safety (2017) states the following:
Section 1.3.7.1(f)

The opening section of the window should be secured by means of fastenings which are readily openable from the inside. In certain circumstances safety restrictors may be fitted to such windows see TGD K Section 2.7. Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be released by removable keys or other tools, should not be fitted to window opening sections for escape or rescue.

Slydice · 16-12-2019 12:52am

Goodigal wrote: »

All private rented dwellings are meant to be inspected by environmental health officers. Not trying to catch people out or lead to difficulties with landlords, but to ensure rented accommodation is at a decent standard. They inspect HAP properties too but not exclusively.

splinter65 wrote: »

All rented properties.

kceire wrote: »

All rented properties. They hope to hit all once every 4 years.

Thanks. Can't remember anyone I know ever saying they had one. Had heard of council properties being inspected.

Gumbo · 16-12-2019 12:56am

Slydice wrote: »

Thanks. Can't remember anyone I know ever saying they had one. Had heard of council properties being inspected.

Recent pressure on councils to inspect and also recent investment from government to councils to allow them to
Employ more Environmental Health Officers in order to carry out the inspections. Dublin City recently went through a recruitment drive for these positions within the last year or so.

massy086 · 16-12-2019 1:29am

kceire wrote: »

That’s not correct. I recently fitted the cable type to my properties which passed the HAP inspections.

Furthermore there is no mention of re-engagement in the building regulations.

Part K – Stairways, Ladders, Ramps and Guards Section 2.7. states the following:
Section 2.7

In dwellings where a window has an opening section through which a person may fall, (having particular regard to children under five years old), and is more than 1400 mm above external ground level, suitable safety restrictors should be provided.

Safety restrictors should restrain the window sufficiently to prevent such falls. Restrictors can be either an integral part of the window operating gear or separate items of hardware which can be fitted to a window at the time of manufacture or at installation. Restrictors should operate so that they limit the initial movement of an opening section to not more than 100 mm.

Part B – Fire Safety (2017) states the following:
Section 1.3.7.1(f)

The opening section of the window should be secured by means of fastenings which are readily openable from the inside. In certain circumstances safety restrictors may be fitted to such windows see TGD K Section 2.7. Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be released by removable keys or other tools, should not be fitted to window opening sections for escape or rescue.

take a look at section 10 (d).these are the rules I have to work off when fitting them for customers

Sleepy · 16-12-2019 1:45pm

I've done some work with one of the local councils on this (reporting on the survey data) and certainly the last time we spoke the only properties they were actively inspecting were their own stock, privately owned HAP properties and those which they'd received a complaint about. It was certainly envisaged that they'd eventually move on to all privately rented property in the council but that it was going to take another two years to get through the inspections of the first cohort before they'd even get started on the rest.

Perhaps the council area your property is located in is further along the path on this but the council I'm working with would tend to be one of the better organised in this regard so I'd suspect you may want to check in with your tenant and see if they have any particular complaints...

Gumbo · 16-12-2019 3:06pm

massy086 wrote: »

take a look at section 10 (d).these are the rules I have to work off when fitting them for customers

Appreciate the upload.
That’s mad as the Building Regulations don’t require re-engagement and I’ve went through 2 HAP inspections this year and both properties built in 2006 contained no restrictors so I fitted the cable ones myself.

JustMe,K · 16-12-2019 4:22pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Hi folks,

So in my 20+ years of private renting, I received a letter on Friday about something I've never had before - a notice that the local council is planning to inspect my current residence within the next month or so.

I'm renting this place for just over 2 years now and being honest, there's probably stuff that could be done. The hinges on some of the windows are warped (and were like that when I moved in) so you need to shove them closed from the outside if you open them, there's unslightly plaster gaps above the fuse box and in the under-stairs toilet, the front and back door could do with some draft excluding work and other minor things like that.

But, anything significant that has been needed (very little to be honest) the landlord has had taken care of immediately and we have a very good relationship - essentially, I leave him alone unless something significant comes up, and vice versa.

But looking at this and the referred to info on Citizens Information, I can see some of these nonsense requirements costing potentially significant money and/or aggravation for both of us, stuff like:

"Windows that are located above a certain height are fitted with safety restrictors, in order to prevent falls" - no kids (young or otherwise) live in the house so this is totally unnecessary, but I've heard can be expensive to retrofit.

"A clothes-dryer if the dwelling does not have a private garden or yard" - a dryer would be handy (and I was thinking of one myself) as although it's an end of terrace house, there's no garded as such.. just a wrap-around drive for car parking shared by the other houses in the row (it's actually more like a duplex apartment really in many ways).

"A fire blanket" - don't have this either, nor any extinguishers. There's 2 alarms in the place, neither of which I've heard a peep from.

The letter doesn't give any suggested dates or times either (presumably these people reckon tenants can just sit around all day in case they decide to show up), but there is a contact name.. who to be very honest I'm thinking of calling on Monday and asking WTF they think they at in the current climate potentially risking a person's tenancy (because let's be honest.. if my or any other LL decides it's not worth the hassle/expense, that's what happens - as I know happened to someone on a HAP tenancy where the LL announced they were "moving back in" instead).

So my question is, unlike HAP tenancies where the council can just not pay the LL for non-compliance - how much authority and penalty can this shower enforce if my LL similarly agrees that this is petty nonsense. I'd be far more impressed if they announced they were going to sound-proof and insulate the place properly (it's about 15 or so years old so the experience of hearing door closing from next door - or even further up the row - is common)

Cheers.

Is this from a crowd called Inspex by any chance?

massy086 · 16-12-2019 5:49pm

kceire wrote: »

Appreciate the upload.
That’s mad as the Building Regulations don’t require re-engagement and I’ve went through 2 HAP inspections this year and both properties built in 2006 contained no restrictors so I fitted the cable ones myself.

ye it really can come down to the inspector.but I have seen landlord,s being caught out on it

amol2229 · 07-11-2020 10:51pm

JustMe,K wrote: »

Is this from a crowd called Inspex by any chance?

Yes.
I believe it's for rental properties registered with RTB.

degsie · 21-12-2020 5:18pm

Just got an email from Inspex regarding inspection. Is this the real deal or should I be concerned about some hoax/scam?

Gumbo · 21-12-2020 6:37pm

degsie wrote: »

Just got an email from Inspex regarding inspection. Is this the real deal or should I be concerned about some hoax/scam?

Call to confirm.
But expect your property to be inspected at least once every 3 years.

_Kaiser_ · 18-02-2023 7:24pm

So old thread I know, but as it turned out the inspection I referenced in the OP never actually happened because of Covid.

This week though I got a new letter from the council telling me to contact a guy to arrange it.

As most of the same issues I mentioned still exist, I'm extremely reluctant to agree to it. One of two things will happen - either they will present the landlord (who is charging me well below market rates as I don't bother him, am a good reliable tenant and look after small things myself) a list of expensive but trivial repairs that he'll balk at, or he'll begrudgingly do it and raise my rent significantly to cover it.

As usual in Ireland, there's theory where these inspections are a good idea sure, and the reality of a housing crisis, no tradesmen anyway, and very few proactive landlords.

I think I'll call the council on Monday and point this out and push back (I'm not having my otherwise quiet peaceful tenancy threatened by some bureaucracy) but has anyone had one of these recently and how did it go?

Mrs OBumble · 18-02-2023 10:04pm

Can a tenant be forced to allow an inspection? Unless you want one, I'd be as uncommunicative as possible. If you're going to call them, as least set your phone to private number.

lmk123 · 18-02-2023 11:29pm

If you don’t want them to inspect the property just don’t be at home when they call and don’t answer your phone on the day (I’m sure your landlord will be glad), there are so many properties to inspect you’ll literally be forgotten if you do this once or twice, just say an emergency popped up if they do get in contact at a later date and that you’re more than happy with the condition of the property, there is literally nothing they can do to make you be at home for the inspection and to be quite honest there isn’t much they can do to your landlord either if he refuses to do the work as it’s privately rented, in theory they can take him to court but you’ll be doing well to find a previous case where a private landlord was actually taken to court for not completing works from these inspections

maurice1 · 07-05-2023 3:43pm

Can a tenant be forced to allow an inspection?

I doubt it,

A TV licence inspector cant just barge into your home uninvited.

A Garda has to believe a crime may be being committed to enter your home.

Why would a Corpo contractor be allowed in?

dennyk · 07-05-2023 6:00pm

The tenant has no obligation to the council to allow an inspection, but they do have a responsibility to the landlord to allow reasonable access for inspections, and to avoid doing something that would cause the landlord to be in violation of any laws or regulations. If the council inspector can't gain access to the property due to an obstinate tenant, at some point they will likely threaten the landlord with penalties for failing to comply with the inspection requirements. At that point the landlord is going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place; if they don't tell the tenant to allow the inspection, they will be in trouble with the council and will likely face fines or even potential prosecution. If they do tell the tenant to allow the inspection and the tenant continues to refuse access entirely, then they would be be breaching their tenant obligations, and eventually the landlord can terminate the tenancy for that if the tenant doesn't correct the breach. The inspection is most likely going to have to happen at some point, I'm afraid.

Yellow_Fern · 08-05-2023 5:20pm

This happened to me. 25,000 Euro bill

HBC08 · 08-05-2023 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258505#Comment_120258505

Just ignore the correspondence.

They won't keep it up,they'll have other things to direct resources to.

Annoying as it is just pretend you never got the letter,don't give it a 2nd thought.

3283winnie · 22-09-2023 12:51pm

Can anyone give advice on private ras lease agreement with council they sent a letter to say an inspection is due this is done every 2 years so the letter states I'm only in the property 18 months

So basically I build an extension just like a pergola with a flat roof on top added from my kitchen it's only like used as a kids toy room and games room I also added a stove fire to my sitting room with a new chimmley added will this cause me issues with this inspection I was told when taking my keys this is my house and I can do what I like to it I'm now in panic mode can anyone help me thanks

lmk123 · 22-09-2023 6:45pm

2 Questions:

Did you have permission from the owner to build this extension?
is this a piss take

surrender monkey · 22-09-2023 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142727#Comment_121142727

Are you a ras tenant? If so you definitely should not have done this to the property. Adding a stove and a chimney would have to be done properly did you do it yourself or get a qualified contractor to do it. A ras agreement is an agreement by the landlord to rent a property to the council for a short term say 10 years. The council does not own that house!

zell12 · 22-09-2023 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121144351#Comment_121144351

Must be 2. It really must

Bass Reeves · 28-09-2023 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565775#Comment_120565775

You are incorrect about the powers of a TV licie ce inspector. While they cannot break down a dor if the door is open technically by the letter of the law they can enter to check if you have a TV.

They do not use the power but they have very open legislation regarding entering a property

Bass Reeves · 28-09-2023 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121144351#Comment_121144351

On Q2 not necessarily. I have heard of tenants installing stoves in houses where there was very poor heating/ Insulation. Open fires cost a fortune in fuel. You could.ake the price if the stove back in a year

lmk123 · 29-09-2023 8:20am

I could understand someone putting in a stove instead of an open fire place, even though they absolutely shouldn’t without permission but this person says that they built and extension on to the house. I can’t see anyone in their right mind doing that so that’s why I think it’s a piss take.

Council Inspection of Private Rental

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