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Should Ireland and the rest of Europe take in more migrants based in Turkey?

12357…10

Comments

  • #202
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    How many more migrants should we take in before we say "that's enough" and leave the rest stranded at the border of the EU?

    There has to be a limit.


  • #203
    LaFuton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 784 ✭✭✭LaFuton


    no.


  • #204
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Deleted User wrote:
    This situation is more than politics. It's economics. Basic supply and demand. We don't have infinite resources, and migrants are a growing drain.
    The only problem is that several countries in Europe, namely Italy, Portugal, Germany, will have serious demographic issues and hence economic issues due to not enough labour and too many pensioners. Their birth rates are feeble, and with the exception of Germany also suffer from emigration.
    Not applicable to Ireland that much but just saying. Ireland does still need largely skilled immigrants due to liberal labour market and many MNCs operating, many skilled positions must be filled by migrants, locals are unable to supply them.


  • #205
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    McGiver wrote: »
    The only problem is that several countries in Europe, namely Italy, Portugal, Germany, will have serious demographic issues and hence economic issues due to not enough labour and too many pensioners. Their birth rates are feeble, and with the exception of Germany also suffer from emigration.
    Not applicable to Ireland that much but just saying. Ireland does still need largely skilled immigrants due to liberal labour market and many MNCs operating, many skilled positions must be filled by migrants, locals are unable to supply them.

    Yes we should continue to take in skilled immigrants to fill shortages and allow businesses and the economy to grow.

    Take in unskilled workers who are a drain on economy, housing and healthcare though?

    No


  • #206
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Lonesomerhodes wrote: »
    All these bleeding heart freaks when have they ever put anyone up themselves?.
    The best ones are the 3rd level students most of whom would welcome in these chancers yet they can't get part-time jobs anymore because of too much competition from our recent arrivals.


  • #207
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Blueshoe wrote:
    Yes we should continue to take in skilled immigrants to fill shortages and allow businesses and the economy to grow.
    Yes, and it's happening.
    Blueshoe wrote:
    Take in unskilled workers who are a drain on economy, housing and healthcare though?
    We're not doing it. Do you have evidence we do?

    Also - define unskilled. For example social care workers, nurses are all labelled as low skilled but hell they're important especially if you don't (and won't) have a local supply.


  • #208
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    vriesmays wrote:
    The best ones are the 3rd level students most of whom would welcome in these chancers yet they can't get part-time jobs anymore because of too much competition from our recent arrivals.
    Who? Where? How many? When?


  • #209
    Clarence Boddiker
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Clarence Boddiker


    vriesmays wrote: »
    The best ones are the 3rd level students most of whom would welcome in these chancers yet they can't get part-time jobs anymore because of too much competition from our recent arrivals.

    They don't seem to be able to make that connection, just like those complaining about the housing/ accommodation crisis whilst supporting open borders can't seem to make the (very obvious) connection either


  • #210
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    McGiver wrote: »
    Yes, and it's happening.


    We're not doing it. Do you have evidence we do?

    Also - define unskilled. For example social care workers, nurses are all labelled as low skilled but hell they're important especially if you don't (and won't) have a local supply.

    Don't be ridiculous.


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  • #211
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Lefty Bicek wrote:
    Don't be ridiculous.
    That would need a bit more elaboration I guess. Something is missing? You're on a discussion forum not sending texts to pals.


  • #212
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Harmonics wrote: »
    Yeah sure open the borders to thousands of fighting age men from places like Afghanistan. What can possibly go wrong...

    Asylum responsibility doesn’t exclude young men. In any case only half of refugees coming to the E.U. are in that age group, and a third of those are women.


  • #213
    str8talkingguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 201 ✭✭str8talkingguy


    alastair wrote: »
    Asylum responsibility doesn’t exclude young men. In any case only half of refugees coming to the E.U. are in that age group, and a third of those are women.

    You are on every thread pushing a leftist establishment agenda alastair.You should really be getting paid for your work on boards.

    You obviously are doing well and are happy with the status quo and don't want anything to change,try seeing others point of view sometimes.

    For some of the less well off aren't happy,they have little and some have nothing,and they can't afford to share with half the world,we are only a small country with little infrastructure.


  • #214
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Harmonics wrote: »
    Europe took in a million 'refugees' and got sexual violence and terrorism as a thank you. We've done enough.

    Doubt you’ve done anything tbh.


  • #215
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    str8talkingguy wrote: »
    You are on every thread pushing a leftist establishment agenda alastair.You should really be getting paid for your work on boards.

    You obviously are doing well and are happy with the status quo and don't want anything to change,try seeing others point of view sometimes.

    For some of the less well off aren't happy,they have little and some have nothing,and they can't afford to share with half the world,we are only a small country with little infrastructure.

    ‘Leftist establishment’ ��

    There’s more refugees in Lebanon and Jordan alone than the entirety of the EU. And they are far poorer than the E.U. So I suspect your perspective is a bit off.


  • #216
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Harmonics wrote: »
    No because I don't want Europe flooded with 'refugees'.

    🎻


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  • #217
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    McGiver wrote: »
    Yes, and it's happening.


    We're not doing it. Do you have evidence we do?

    Also - define unskilled. For example social care workers, nurses are all labelled as low skilled but hell they're important especially if you don't (and won't) have a local supply.

    All is well so. Thanks McTaker


  • #218
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    McGiver wrote: »
    That would need a bit more elaboration I guess. Something is missing? You're on a discussion forum not sending texts to pals.

    I made it very clear that to which I am referring, so no elaboration is required.


  • #219
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    48% - to many asylum seekers
    10% - should take none

    Plus most think they are a drain on resources...

    https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/half-of-people-say-too-many-asylum-seekers-here-4507bb40


  • #220
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    48% - to many asylum seekers
    10% - should take none

    Plus most think they are a drain on resources...

    https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/half-of-people-say-too-many-asylum-seekers-here-4507bb40

    Paywalled, but that would be a majority don’t believe there’s too many asylum seekers, and also:
    Irish public also believe that immigrants have a positive impact on culture and the economy, according to new survey

    Clearly asylum provision is a ‘drain on resources’ - it’s a service after all.


  • #221
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    alastair wrote: »
    Paywalled, but that would be a majority don’t believe there’s too many asylum seekers, and also:



    Clearly asylum provision is a ‘drain on resources’ - it’s a service after all.

    58%...


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  • #222
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    58%...

    Nope - you’re combining two different questions to create a false majority. The header makes clear that less than half of those polled felt there were too many asylum seekers. That’s a minority.


  • #223
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,023 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    alastair wrote: »
    ‘Leftist establishment’ ��

    There’s more refugees in Lebanon and Jordan alone than the entirety of the EU. And they are far poorer than the E.U. So I suspect your perspective is a bit off.

    Two wrongs don't make a right Alastair. Jordan and the Lebanon were geographically unlucky as were Greece, Italy and Turkey. If the EU can stop this, they should. It's sad on a humaniterian level, but it's is not the EU's responsibility. On what basis can it be?
    There is some bleeding heart gob****e on RTE Radio 1 now saying Ireland carries some responsibility for the crisis and should do more. Breaking news, we don't and we should not.


  • #224
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope - you’re combining two different questions to create a false majority. The header makes clear that less than half of those polled felt there were too many asylum seekers. That’s a minority.

    They were clearly asked one question and given choices, its safe to assume the 10% who don't want any think there are to many.


  • #225
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Two wrongs don't make a right Alastair. Jordan and the Lebanon were geographically unlucky as were Greece, Italy and Turkey. If the EU can stop this, they should. It's sad on a humaniterian level, but it's is not the EU's responsibility. On what basis can it be?
    There is some bleeding heart gob****e on RTE Radio 1 now saying Ireland carries some responsibility for the crisis and should do more. Breaking news, we don't and we should not.

    What exactly is wrong about Jordan and Lebanon hosting refugees? It’s certainly every states legal responsibility to offer asylum to legitimate refugees.


  • #226
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    They were clearly asked one question and given choices, its safe to assume the 10% who don't want any think there are to many.

    No it’s not. The headline makes clear that it was less than half - so it’s definitely not 58%. You’re combining two different questions.


  • #227
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Clarence Boddiker wrote: »
    They don't seem to be able to make that connection, just like those complaining about the housing/ accommodation crisis whilst supporting open borders can't seem to make the (very obvious) connection either

    Brainwashed by women teachers in school and not clever enough to think with their minds.


  • #228
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    vriesmays wrote: »
    Brainwashed by women teachers in school and not clever enough to think with their minds.

    300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg


  • #229
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,140 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    vriesmays wrote: »
    Brainwashed by women teachers in school and not clever enough to think with their minds.




    You might elaborate on that....?


  • #230
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,023 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    alastair wrote: »
    What exactly is wrong about Jordan and Lebanon hosting refugees? It’s certainly every states legal responsibility to offer asylum to legitimate refugees.
    Not much if that floats their boat, but you keep suggesting that if they can do it, everyone else should do it. However, the minute they leave a safe country like Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon, they cease to be refugees and are now mere migrants. So comparing the EU to Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon is like comparing apples to oranges.


  • #231
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Not much if that floats their boat, but you keep suggesting that if they can do it, everyone else should do it. However, the minute they leave a safe country like Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon, they cease to be refugees and are now mere migrants. So comparing the EU to Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon is like comparing apples to oranges.

    There’s absolutely nothing to stop refugees travelling through any number of safe countries to make a claim of asylum. Perhaps it’s escaped your notice that pretty much everyone granted asylum in Ireland has done so?


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  • #232
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,023 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    alastair wrote: »
    There’s absolutely nothing to stop refugees travelling through any number of safe countries to make a claim of asylum. Perhaps it’s escaped your notice that pretty much everyone granted asylum in a Ireland has done so?

    If they have come from a safe country to Ireland and have somehow been given asylum, then the core rules of the Dublin Regulation are being flouted by officials.


  • #233
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    If they have come from a safe country to Ireland and have somehow been given asylum, then the core rules of the Dublin Regulation are being flouted by officials.

    Nope; they’re not. The Dublin Regulations require an asylum claimant at the first EU state of registration. If there’s no registration applied, then the claimant can travel onwards and make their claim in any other EU country. Anyone registered in another EU country is identified via the EU-wide database, and their claim is transferred to that country.

    Again - there’s nothing to stop an asylum seeker travelling through multiple safe countries before making a successful claim.


  • #234
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,023 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope; they’re not. The Dublin Regulations require an asylum claimant at the first EU state of registration. If there’s no registration applied, then the claimant can travel onwards and make their claim in any other EU country. Anyone registered in another EU country is identified via the EU-wide database, and their claim is transferred to that country.

    Again - there’s nothing to stop an asylum seeker travelling through multiple safe countries before making a successful claim.
    Greece, Spain and Italy fingerprint all migrants that are aprehended, and that fingerprint acts as registration under Dublin rules.


  • #235
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Greece, Spain and Italy fingerprint all migrants that are aprehended, and that fingerprint acts as registration under Dublin rules.

    Yes. But that assumes that the people are fingerprinted - which is generally not the case with Italy, and even if they are, and those fingerprints show up when an application is made in another EU country, the request for a take-back to the first country would have to be agreed by that country. Greece only accepted about 2% of German take-back requests in recent years.


  • #236
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,023 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    alastair wrote: »
    Yes. But that assumes that the people are fingerprinted - which is generally not the case with Italy, and even if they are, and those fingerprints show up when an application is made in another EU country, the request for a take-back to the first country would have to be agreed by that country. Greece only accepted about 2% of German take-back requests in recent years.

    So you are arguing the case for fraudulent claims? Asylum tourism?
    Dublin rules apply to asylum seekers too. Not just the authorities. Binning your papers should be no defence.


  • #237
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    So you are arguing the case for fraudulent claims? Asylum tourism?
    Dublin rules apply to asylum seekers too. Not just the authorities. Binning your papers should be no defence.

    There’s nothing fraudulent about making a claim in any EU country. The Dublin Regulations are an internal EU arrangement and don’t make any claim an illegal one - it’s merely an agreement to decide the State that administers the claim. The claimant can legally make their claim in any EU country - there’s no onus on them to pay any attention to the Dublin Regulations. If their claim is subsequently transferred, that’s a different matter - but it doesn’t make their claim fraudulent or illegal.


  • #238
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    All the folks interviewed on the BBC special report over there from a couple of days ago, never once mentioned they're seeking refuge.

    All the interviewed (young men), all claimed without pause that they were seeking 'a better life'.
    Economic Migration.

    Very very few were even from Syria, as one would assume.
    Also very, very, very few were females.


  • #239
    LaFuton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 784 ✭✭✭LaFuton


    no


  • #240
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Lefty Bicek wrote:
    I made it very clear that to which I am referring, so no elaboration is required.
    No you didn't. You're on a discussion forum not in a pub. Shouting 3 word silly slogans won't work here.


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  • #241
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Abraham Happy Oaf wrote: »
    All the folks interviewed on the BBC special report over there from a couple of days ago, never once mentioned they're seeking refuge.

    All the interviewed (young men), all claimed without pause that they were seeking 'a better life'.
    Economic Migration.

    Very very few were even from Syria, as one would assume.
    Also very, very, very few were females.

    so not women and children who are all doctors and engineers fleeing a terrible war like the guardian would have you believe ?


  • #242
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    alastair wrote:
    What exactly is wrong about Jordan and Lebanon hosting refugees? It’s certainly every states legal responsibility to offer asylum to legitimate refugees.

    Yes, as per the UN convention on refugees, signed by almost all countries in 1951 bar failed ones like North Korea etc.


  • #243
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Blueshoe wrote:
    All is well so. Thanks McTaker
    Very intelligent and deep argument indeed. It was a pleasure discuss with you. Now off to pub.


  • #244
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Abraham Happy Oaf wrote: »
    All the folks interviewed on the BBC special report over there from a couple of days ago, never once mentioned they're seeking refuge.

    All the interviewed (young men), all claimed without pause that they were seeking 'a better life'.
    Economic Migration.

    Very very few were even from Syria, as one would assume.
    Also very, very, very few were females.

    The gender breakdown and nationality of those entering Greece are recorded.
    50% are adult males, 20% adult women, and 30% children. Syrians comprise the second largest nationality by number - but Afghans are the largest group, at twice the Syrian number.


  • #245
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    vriesmays wrote:
    Brainwashed by women teachers in school and not clever enough to think with their minds.
    What? Tin foil hats on.


  • #246
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Abraham Happy Oaf wrote:
    All the interviewed (young men), all claimed without pause that they were seeking 'a better life'. Economic Migration.

    As were millions of TB ridden, malnourished, and otherwise infested Irish farming folk going to the US to get better life, UK 120 years ago.

    There's very little difference between a poor farmer from Connacht going to the US 120 years ago and a Syrian refugee going to Ireland in 2020.


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  • #247
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    McGiver wrote: »
    No you didn't. You're on a discussion forum not in a pub. Shouting 3 word silly slogans won't work here.

    Yes I did.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112755282&postcount=210

    I highlighted the word 'nurses', and the word 'unskilled', and anyone with a shred of sense would know that is what I was referring to.

    But not you.

    Therefore, I will elucidate -

    Characterising nurses as unskilled is, as I've already told you, is simply being ridiculous.

    Putting it mildly.


  • #248
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Lefty Bicek wrote:
    Characterising nurses as unskilled is, as I've already told you, is simply being ridiculous.
    I said low skilled. You may need to check. What's your point?


  • #249
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    McGiver wrote: »
    I said low skilled. You may need to check. What's your point?

    My point is that characterising nurses as low-skilled, is ridiculous. It's every bit as ridiculous as calling them unskilled.

    Actually what you said is that
    nurses are all labelled as low skilled

    Whereas, that's not a label that attaches routinely to nurses at all.

    It's just a figment of your condescending imagination.


  • #250
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Lefty Bicek wrote:
    Whereas, that's not a label that attaches routinely to nurses at all.
    It is indeed low skilled as well as the social care workers and I could add child care too.

    Not doctors, rocket scientists, engineers, researchers, IT people or academics. Hence low skilled. Makes sense?


  • #251
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Stop **** with your left arm. Give a break and use your right. Totally changes perspective.


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