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25-04-2017, 22:06   #61
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So you are in favour of using violence if you think it is justifiable for the greater good.
If it stops people like you? Yes.
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25-04-2017, 22:07   #62
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Antifa are only involved in stopping nazi's and fascists not campaigning for anything else.
Who decides who is nazi and fascist? You?
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25-04-2017, 22:09   #63
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Not so much in the rise of Hitler and the Nazi Party. They were are absolute joke among the German people. A miniature but angry racist Austrian weirdo that shouted a lot. A series of unfortunate circumstances conspired to facilitate the power grab. The predominant reason being the harsh nature of the WW1 settlement and the feeling that Germany was humiliated.

I don't get you man, can you not see the point I'm making? I don't know if I can make it any clearer.

Stalin didn't appear out of nowhere like a boogeyman, there was a desire from the people for him to be there (very generally speaking). Same with Nazism, same with bloody everything of that nature.

If you eliminate Nazism....you haven't eliminated the desire. That desire will manifest itself in someone else or another group.

Cause and effect!

If you could personally eliminate Trump....what do you think would happen to all his supporters, all those who voted for him? Ditto for Le Pen if she wins or not....

On the contrary to what youre implying, simply removing these people/entities is only going to STRENGTHEN the desire for them and their message and policies. Its all like a pressure valve, and there are certain people that just want to keep the pressure building and building while pretending theres nothing wrong at all....what can possibly go wrong?!
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25-04-2017, 22:17   #64
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Who decides who is nazi and fascist? You?
Nazi's and fascists decide to be that way themselves.
Richard Spencer and Domigo are open about it.
Plenty are.
Antifa are confronting them not innocent bystanders.
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25-04-2017, 22:22   #65
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Nazi's and fascists decide to be that way themselves.
Richard Spencer and Domigo are open about it.
Plenty are.
Antifa are confronting them not innocent bystanders.
this is a lie, 90% of the protest in berkely had nothing to do with white nationalism, why did antifa attack them? Why throw fireworks and glass bottles indiscriminately into the crowd? It might be fun to play dress up and fight some imaginary nazis but to compare yourself in anyway to people that actually fought actual fascism is a joke. You're not a revolutionary, you're not brave, you're a scumbag who uses violence to get their own way. Its pathetic how scared antifa are to back up their own ridiculous views that their only resort is violence and screeching like a child having a temper tantrum.
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25-04-2017, 22:35   #66
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Nazi's and fascists decide to be that way themselves.
Richard Spencer and Domigo are open about it.
Plenty are.
Antifa are confronting them not innocent bystanders.
There was a programme on RTE a week or so back, something about the allure of hitler....basically the billionth programme made about Nazi Germany.

Some interesting footage though. It was the rise of of the Nazi regime, and there was definitely a power struggle between the Nazis and the communists. Clashing in the streets, fighting, blah blah.

But you cant NOT see the parallels to today, crazy stuff. I mean, its not a stretch to say that if the communists had won, it wouldn't have worked out any better under a german version of stalin.

Antifa, from the little Ive seen, seem to proudly display the communist flags and ideologies.

Do you really think that by supporting antifa you are supporting the "good" guys? Despite the ridiculously accurate comparisons from history?

Is it not more truthful to just accept that something disastrous is on the horizon, no matter which of these ideologies would win out?
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25-04-2017, 22:35   #67
 
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I don't get you man, can you not see the point I'm making? I don't know if I can make it any clearer.

Stalin didn't appear out of nowhere like a boogeyman, there was a desire from the people for him to be there (very generally speaking). Same with Nazism, same with bloody everything of that nature.

If you eliminate Nazism....you haven't eliminated the desire. That desire will manifest itself in someone else or another group.

Cause and effect!

If you could personally eliminate Trump....what do you think would happen to all his supporters, all those who voted for him? Ditto for Le Pen if she wins or not....

On the contrary to what youre implying, simply removing these people/entities is only going to STRENGTHEN the desire for them and their message and policies. Its all like a pressure valve, and there are certain people that just want to keep the pressure building and building while pretending theres nothing wrong at all....what can possibly go wrong?!
You point may hold true in a lot of scenarios but not that of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. The particular set of circumstances that enabled the Nazi's to seize power were pretty unique and if Hitler or goring had been removed the Reichstag probably would have remained as a democratic institution, even if the building itself was to be burned
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25-04-2017, 22:43   #68
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You point may hold true in a lot of scenarios but not that of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. The particular set of circumstances that enabled the Nazi's to seize power were pretty unique and if Hitler or goring had been removed the Reichstag probably would have remained as a democratic institution, even if the building itself was to be burned
But practically all situations are unique in and of themselves. The only thing that matters is the sentiment, the feeling of the people.

Were they happy? Were they content with the future ahead of them? Were they humiliated? Did they want identity back? Did they refuse the status quo?

Putting those things in context, they apply to everything. Nazi Germany was NOT a fluke, it just so happened to be the first country to go "large" on a proper worldwide scale so it seems unique. It wasn't! And it wont be the last either.

A fundamental mistake is to assume that people are intelligent. They aren't, individuals can be, but people are not. They forget history, they think they are unique, they look at the past and breathe a sigh of relief, "thank goodness that can never happen again!".....theres a reason history repeats (or rhymes). People don't learn and think theyre smarter than ever before. Pride before the fall.....for the millionth time.
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25-04-2017, 23:19   #69
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There was a programme on RTE a week or so back, something about the allure of hitler....basically the billionth programme made about Nazi Germany.

Some interesting footage though. It was the rise of of the Nazi regime, and there was definitely a power struggle between the Nazis and the communists. Clashing in the streets, fighting, blah blah.

But you cant NOT see the parallels to today, crazy stuff. I mean, its not a stretch to say that if the communists had won, it wouldn't have worked out any better under a german version of stalin.

Antifa, from the little Ive seen, seem to proudly display the communist flags and ideologies.

Do you really think that by supporting antifa you are supporting the "good" guys? Despite the ridiculously accurate comparisons from history?

Is it not more truthful to just accept that something disastrous is on the horizon, no matter which of these ideologies would win out?
Antifa are countering the white supremacists and Nazi's attending these marches. If there were no fascists they wouldn't be an antifa.
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25-04-2017, 23:25   #70
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Antifa are countering the white supremacists and Nazi's attending these marches. If there were no fascists they wouldn't be an antifa.
And if the conditions of society weren't such as they are, there wouldn't be a fascist group.

Its not the groups, its the reason for the groups existence that matters.
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25-04-2017, 23:39   #71
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Who decides who should get boxed, where does it start and end. What speech or views deserve a box and who decides that. And what happens when those people fight back.
You could argue the same about criminal law - who decides what is a crime?
For any society to function there has to be consensus of some sort.
Do we all agree that racism has no basis in science, for a start?
If we all agree on that, then can we all agree that society should attempt to get rid of racism since it leads to huge problems in society in general, and leads the nation down a self-destructive course similar to that followed by by many countries in the past, including nazi germany as a very recent example?

Fascism: an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy, absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism

Racism and fascism/ultra-nationalism are usually very closely linked
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25-04-2017, 23:48   #72
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Antifa are countering the white supremacists and Nazi's attending these marches. If there were no fascists they wouldn't be an antifa.
antifa deciding someone a fascist doesnt make them fascists. Also when will antifa step in to put a stop to antifa members acting like fascists? or is fascism ok in certain circumstances? Its all well and good being an ''antifascist'' but when you start acting like a fascist you stop being an antifascist and start being a fascist
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26-04-2017, 01:06   #73
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...when you start acting like a fascist you stop being an antifascist and start being a fascist
I'm not sure if that is true - there is an ideological difference here since they are anti-fascist surely?

Saying that they're the same (as fascists) - Isn't that like saying that in any war, both the armies are as bad as each other? Even if one side is the aggressor and invades the other for no reason?
It's simplistic and not true IMO.
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26-04-2017, 01:53   #74
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I'm not sure if that is true - there is an ideological difference here since they are anti-fascist surely?

Saying that they're the same (as fascists) - Isn't that like saying that in any war, both the armies are as bad as each other? Even if one side is the aggressor and invades the other for no reason?
It's simplistic and not true IMO.
maybe an idealogical difference no doubt but when you see groups of uniformed masked thugs using violence to silence political opinions they disagree with is very reminiscent of fascism to me, which leads to the question, if you behave like a fascist, are you any better than one? Just because you call yourself an ''anti-fascist'' doesnt mean you can behave like a fascist and get away with it
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26-04-2017, 02:18   #75
 
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Ive read both these threads and all I can conclude is AntiFa are NOT the law and they are not the people who uphold the law.
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