Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

New environmental era of farming. Are you playing your part?

Options
24

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Dakota Dan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    I only put out fertilizer on silage ground yet only starting with fertilizer on grazing ground now after 2 grazings but it’s mainly because I was under stocked due to cows not going in calf. But this environmental alarmism that has nothing to do with the environment, they have already admitted that.


  • Options
    #33
    TPF2012
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭TPF2012


    Buford T. Justice V wrote:
    From dealings with the Dept over the years, the one thing you WILL NOT be allowed do is let a piece of ground become a natural wildlife reserve.

    Buford T. Justice V wrote:
    To qualify, it can ONLY be artificially created


    Sure everyone has to get their cut, the planners, co-ops, contractors, icbf and so on. Take WBC that I have put in for GLAS, ground was cleared of scrub, sprayed off with glycophosphate, ploughed, seeded and fertilized. All this, removed natural habitat, released carbon from soil through cultivation, increase fertiliser use, chemicals introduced to the soil. I wasn't forced to do it but it was the biggest return I was going to get from that bit of ground. I get 900 a hectare for that. Would giving a farmer 300 a hectare to maintain existing habitats not give greater return for less?


  • Options
    #34
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,143 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    If you had any stock and put them into it for a week or two, you wouldn't have had to spray it. I did end up ploughing mine afterwards, I suppose if I disced it, would have done.
    We need to examine each action.


  • Options
    #35
    TPF2012
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭TPF2012


    Water John wrote:
    If you had any stock and put them into it for a week or two, you wouldn't have had to spray it. I did end up ploughing mine afterwards, I suppose if I disced it, would have done. We need to examine each action.

    I had cattle in it for a week but it still had a lot of weeds mainly rushes. I only got it ploughed the 1st year, diced every year since but without spraying of at start it is not going to get much of a chance. Post emergence spraying is not allowed.


  • Options
    #36
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    TPF2012 wrote: »
    I had cattle in it for a week but it still had a lot of weeds mainly rushes. I only got it ploughed the 1st year, diced every year since but without spraying of at start it is not going to get much of a chance. Post emergence spraying is not allowed.

    Put horses on my WBC for a few weeks, they made a savage job of it, ate it down bare...
    Good few docks left all right though...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    _Brian wrote: »
    That’s just untrue and lazy.
    Consumers make a choice every single time they shop.

    For beef that means finding an artisan butcher shop that kills its own animal and butchers on site. That ensures better beef, local beef and a fairer price to the farmer.

    Consumers actually have a lot of power regarding how farming operates. Consumers get the food they buy, keep buying cheap crap and that is all there will be, buy better quality ethically farmed animals and that is where the market will move to fill that demand.


    I honestly don’t believe that. People may say this and that and virtue signal etc but at the end of the day price is king. It’s been that way since time began.
    You have two products the exact same and the cheapest one will sell.
    No matter how many artisan butchers there are the cheapest one will be the busiest.
    The market will reward him for cutting costs and cutting corners and he will cut further costs and corners. It is the essence of business and a market economy unless the government come in and control even then corners will be cut its human nature.


  • Options
    #38
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,143 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The consumer market is far more complicated and nuanced than that. If price only was king, then we would all be shopping in Aldi and Lidl.


  • Options
    #39
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,700 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Tesco bread is sh1te. That's all I have to say on the matter.

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



  • Options
    #40
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Water John wrote: »
    The consumer market is far more complicated and nuanced than that. If price only was king, then we would all be shopping in Aldi and Lidl.

    If you have two artisan butchers in a town and both are equal in terms of product and one is cheaper than the other.
    Then the cheaper one will be busier.


    If the bread in Aldi is as good as the bread in superquinn people will pop into Aldi on the way home from superquinn .

    Once you meet the standards the market demands then price is king.


  • Options
    #41
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Put horses on my WBC for a few weeks, they made a savage job of it, ate it down bare...
    Good few docks left all right though...

    Australia?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Supermarkets are part of the cartel that drives down prices. They are in league with processors to control and suppress beef prices and as a result we are seeing more and more feedlot cattle through the system. Artisan butchers buy locally grown cattle from small farmers and kill them locally, so the two 10oz steaks aren’t equal, they are very different products. The payment to the farmer and the life the animal has had is very different too.

    They not only do it for meat but they also treat the likes of veg growers terribly. Dropping prices when crops are ready to harvest, they often cause crops to be ploughed back into the ground with their unfair tactics. You won’t see smaller shops doing stuff like that.

    If farmers think that buying farm products on price alone is acceptable that the whole thing is ****ed for sure.

    If we start with the message that supermarkets are good places to buy meat and veg then we are handing them and the processors all the power and may as well put up and shut up about poor prices going forward.

    Yes if the two products are actually the same then price is key.

    But 6 burgers from a butcher where they are minced “beef” hand prepared, you can’t pretend they are the same as 6 burgers in a box from Tesco from “meat” for €1.99


  • Options
    #43
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Agree supermarkets have too much of a share of the pie, however the vast majority of our beef is exported so it needs to be shown on an international level the advantages of Irish beef, which processors aren't willing to do. They prefer to buy it as cheap as possible, and it's worked for them as the barons are all in the rich list every year so why would they bother changing.


  • Options
    #44
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Agree supermarkets have too much of a share of the pie, however the vast majority of our beef is exported so it needs to be shown on an international level the advantages of Irish beef, which processors aren't willing to do. They prefer to buy it as cheap as possible, and it's worked for them as the barons are all in the rich list every year so why would they bother changing.

    How will this work though and keep production so high, is it too simplistic to say we’re overproducing would limiting sticking density of beef animals help green credentials ?


  • Options
    #45
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    _Brian wrote: »
    How will this work though and keep production so high, is it too simplistic to say we’re overproducing would limiting sticking density of beef animals help green credentials ?

    I think the government are looking for regional status for Irish beef, or whatever the term is, similar to cheeses etc in France would help i guess dunno will anythimg trickle down to the beef farmer tho. Removing age limits would allow more fully grass fed beef as younger stock have to be pushed with meal. All these things won't behind benefit to mii so they will go against it


  • Options
    #46
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    _Brian wrote: »
    How will this work though and keep production so high, is it too simplistic to say we’re overproducing would limiting sticking density of beef animals help green credentials ?

    They’d only increase production in Brazil and Argentina.


  • Options
    #47
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Mooooo wrote: »
    I think the government are looking for regional status for Irish beef, or whatever the term is, similar to cheeses etc in France would help i guess dunno will anythimg trickle down to the beef farmer tho. Removing age limits would allow more fully grass fed beef as younger stock have to be pushed with meal. All these things won't behind benefit to mii so they will go against it

    The problem with beef is it would take a fair sensitive palate to detect the nuances of differently produced beef.
    It’s the beef type and cooking process that makes the most difference to taste and texture.
    The sad reality is people were unwittingly eating horse meat and didn’t know it at one stage. That was one epic corner cutting exercise. Highlights the cut throat nature of the beef market.


  • Options
    #48
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    _Brian wrote: »
    Really, do you think our health is worse because of diesel cars since the cheap tax came in ??

    Have to say it’s a link I can never see, granted I don’t live in an urban area but even on the odd occasion I visit Dublin it seems cleaner air than wine I would have visited 20 or 30 years ago.

    The man that invented putting lead in petrol Thomas Midgley according to some historians was the single most destructive organism ever to exist on Earth. The greastest single threat to the environment ever, also the greatest ever killer- take the two world wars and mutiply by ten. And he knew lead was poison! He also messed with CFCs. I'm not saying petrol is great now but diesel is not good causing all sorts of ill health. There will be a time (it's here already for the majority of specialized scientists) when we will look back at the combustion engine and ask ' what the heck were we thinking'.


  • Options
    #49
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,189 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    lalababa wrote: »
    The man that invented putting lead in petrol Thomas Midgley according to some historians was the single most destructive organism ever to exist on Earth. The greastest single threat to the environment ever, also the greatest ever killer- take the two world wars and mutiply by ten. And he knew lead was poison! He also messed with CFCs. I'm not saying petrol is great now but diesel is not good causing all sorts of ill health. There will be a time (it's here already for the majority of specialized scientists) when we will look back at the combustion engine and ask ' what the heck were we thinking'.

    Its a pity that lead is poisonous, as its was such a great lubricant for the ic engine for 70 years.
    Of course, while we do have some pollution from engines, (lead is gone) we no longer have lead in every thing thats painted.
    Every kitchen door, shed roof, cart, barrow and piece of farm equipment was painted with red lead or orange lead paint.
    Water pipe threads had white lead compound as a lubricant/anti-seize paste, not to mention the wide spread use of lead piping in houses before pvc was invented.


  • Options
    #50
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    lalababa wrote: »
    The man that invented putting lead in petrol Thomas Midgley according to some historians was the single most destructive organism ever to exist on Earth. The greastest single threat to the environment ever, also the greatest ever killer- take the two world wars and mutiply by ten. And he knew lead was poison! He also messed with CFCs. I'm not saying petrol is great now but diesel is not good causing all sorts of ill health. There will be a time (it's here already for the majority of specialized scientists) when we will look back at the combustion engine and ask ' what the heck were we thinking'.

    That’s all well documented.

    I was just surprised by the claim that health has suffered since the introduction of lower tax bands and sales of diesel cars. I’m struggling to see that to be honest.

    Two biggest issues faced in the health services is still smoking and drinking related illnesses.


  • Options
    #51
    Track9
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Track9


    Timmaay wrote: »
    You do recycle the most of them I assume? But if you want to reduce the above, more pit silage, more fert in bulk, meal in bulk, and you'll reduce your plastic use by 90%.

    Im absolutely demented by Single Use Plastic on the Farm.
    It comes from the House & the Farm . Around food ( Fruit , Vegs etc )
    Fertiliser , Meals etc .
    Shrink Wrapping around tools etc irritates me .
    Recenty asked our Suppler of Farm meds , Drugs, etc if they had a return system , to which he replied they pay a company to take their empty med bottles & if did it for us , they would have to charge .
    Govt bodies should do more so we can do the right thing & reduce our waste to close to zero .


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,143 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Did you vote Green?
    https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-farmers-should-support-the-green-party-and-secretly-some-of-them-probably-do-4667297-Jun2019/

    I did. Know sometimes flawed in their thinking, but willing to step up to the plate.
    How we vote may be part of having some control of farming direction.


  • Options
    #53
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Water John wrote: »
    Did you vote Green?
    https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-farmers-should-support-the-green-party-and-secretly-some-of-them-probably-do-4667297-Jun2019/

    I did. Know sometimes flawed in their thinking, but willing to step up to the plate.
    How we vote may be part of having some control of farming direction.

    sometimes flawed or fundamentally flawed?

    I bought my diesel car back in 2008 when the Green Party pushed through motor tax reforms so that evil petrol cars were at a motor tax disadvantage relative to diesel cars - to make diesel cars more popular. the outcome of this policy which was very successful i might add as diesel car sales soared

    That same car i bought in 2008 is still going strong but in the next couple of years i won't be able to drive it through Paris or some of the other major European cities - because its a dirty diesel car

    So in the space of a cars lifetime it has gone from planet saviour to a dirty diesel.

    The problem with alot of "green" policy is that it actually only short term-ism - as soon as a different scientist says something completely different then the "green" policy changes completely


  • Options
    #54
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Water John wrote: »
    Did you vote Green?
    https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-farmers-should-support-the-green-party-and-secretly-some-of-them-probably-do-4667297-Jun2019/

    I did. Know sometimes flawed in their thinking, but willing to step up to the plate.
    How we vote may be part of having some control of farming direction.

    How we become part of the Green party and influence policy and p1ss out of the tent rather than leave it to urbanites to decide policy and just p1ss against the outside of the closed tent, more like? To put it in plain language.

    They're going to be a force now like it or not with the increased affluence of society and environmental education of younger society.

    I didn't give them my number one vote but as a party my number two.


  • Options
    #55
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Panch18 wrote: »
    sometimes flawed or fundamentally flawed?

    I bought my diesel car back in 2008 when the Green Party pushed through motor tax reforms so that evil petrol cars were at a motor tax disadvantage relative to diesel cars - to make diesel cars more popular. the outcome of this policy which was very successful i might add as diesel car sales soared

    That same car i bought in 2008 is still going strong but in the next couple of years i won't be able to drive it through Paris or some of the other major European cities - because its a dirty diesel car

    So in the space of a cars lifetime it has gone from planet saviour to a dirty diesel.

    The problem with alot of "green" policy is that it actually only short term-ism - as soon as a different scientist says something completely different then the "green" policy changes completely

    No offense but that is group think similar to what youd see on Facebook, I'm not getting at you but the the logic behind blaming green party's for these measures is flawed in itself. Not forgetting they were also in government with fianna fail. Recent scandals by VW have shown the car industry to be dishonest, and the government in Ireland take their lead off Europe

    Farmers need to get involved with green party policies because it's the hot topic right now and old right/left wing parties are being left behind, theres no use farmers complaining if the dont get involved and waiting for the next election with their fingers crossed hoping for a return of the old guard

    Farmers can lead the way in this by getting involved, I've seen some lads on Facebook talking about the harm flying can do,, that's bollox in my opinion, a man can only look after what's inside his own gate and the thinking of "sur what harm am I doing when theres planes doing worse above in the sky" is infantile thinking, we can all make a change, it's simply a matter of small changes here and there and if every farmer did it then it all adds up in the end


  • Options
    #56
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Still waters wrote: »
    No offense but that is group think similar to what youd see on Facebook, I'm not getting at you but the the logic behind blaming green party's for these measures is flawed in itself. Not forgetting they were also in government with fianna fail. Recent scandals by VW have shown the car industry to be dishonest, and the government in Ireland take their lead off Europe

    Farmers need to get involved with green party policies because it's the hot topic right now and old right/left wing parties are being left behind, theres no use farmers complaining if the dont get involved and waiting for the next election with their fingers crossed hoping for a return of the old guard

    Farmers can lead the way in this by getting involved, I've seen some lads on Facebook talking about the harm flying can do,, that's bollox in my opinion, a man can only look after what's inside his own gate and the thinking of "sur what harm am I doing when theres planes doing worse above in the sky" is infantile thinking, we can all make a change, it's simply a matter of small changes here and there and if every farmer did it then it all adds up in the end

    I doubt it. Leaving the vegan influenced attacks on methane aside, the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are at levels where only fundamental change is going to make any difference.

    Even if we can stop all carbon additions to the atmosphere today, it'll take years to start to reverse the CO2 levels already there and then you'll have CO2 levels starting to be pulled out of the worlds oceans to balance the reductions in the atmosphere.

    Basically, I reckon we're screwed and the actions being favoured atm are just rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. It'll make no discernible difference to the outcome until oil, coal and gas uses are cut by over 50% or more.


  • Options
    #57
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »
    I doubt it. Leaving the vegan influenced attacks on methane aside, the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are at levels where only fundamental change is going to make any difference.

    Even if we can stop all carbon additions to the atmosphere today, it'll take years to start to reverse the CO2 levels already there and then you'll have CO2 levels starting to be pulled out of the worlds oceans to balance the reductions in the atmosphere.

    Basically, I reckon we're screwed and the actions being favoured atm are just rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. It'll make no discernible difference to the outcome until oil, coal and gas uses are cut by over 50% or more.

    Sad to say you're probably right


  • Options
    #58
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Still waters wrote: »
    No offense but that is group think similar to what youd see on Facebook, I'm not getting at you but the the logic behind blaming green party's for these measures is flawed in itself. Not forgetting they were also in government with fianna fail. Recent scandals by VW have shown the car industry to be dishonest, and the government in Ireland take their lead off Europe

    Farmers need to get involved with green party policies because it's the hot topic right now and old right/left wing parties are being left behind, theres no use farmers complaining if the dont get involved and waiting for the next election with their fingers crossed hoping for a return of the old guard

    Farmers can lead the way in this by getting involved, I've seen some lads on Facebook talking about the harm flying can do,, that's bollox in my opinion, a man can only look after what's inside his own gate and the thinking of "sur what harm am I doing when theres planes doing worse above in the sky" is infantile thinking, we can all make a change, it's simply a matter of small changes here and there and if every farmer did it then it all adds up in the end

    Look the policy that the Green party introduced on cars in 2008 was fundamentally flawed - that is now proven to be a fact, whether you like or not.

    So now Greens want to ban diesel cars in certain cities - not 10 years ago they pursued policy that promoted diesel cars

    This merely highlights that they can flip flop with the best of politicians. Whatever is en vogue at the time.

    The thing is thats not how the environment works - whether the greens know it or not


  • Options
    #59
    Capercaillie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Capercaillie


    Biodiversity crisis in Ireland. Agriculture is a major problem, but virtually every sector in Country at fault as well. Untreated sewage going into rivers, County Council/NRA obliterating road side hedges. New housing destroying habitats.


  • Options
    #60
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Still waters wrote: »
    No

    Farmers need to get involved with green party policies because it's the hot topic right now and old right/left wing parties are being left behind, theres no use farmers complaining if the dont get involved and waiting for the next election with their fingers crossed hoping for a return of the old guard
    Throwing the Christians to the lions was in vogue as well not that long ago.

    Granted we need to look after the earth but the so called environmentalists and save the earth campaigners on about global warming forget the main cause of the Antarctic glaciers melting. ...90+ active volcanoes underneath them.

    It also now looks like the ozone over Australia is healing itself. By any chance is it cyclical??

    Call me sceptic about global warming.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Dante Tangy Wisecrack wrote: »
    Throwing the Christians to the lions was in vogue as well not that long ago.

    Granted we need to look after the earth but the so called environmentalists and save the earth campaigners on about global warming forget the main cause of the Antarctic glaciers melting. ...90+ active volcanoes underneath them.

    It also now looks like the ozone over Australia is healing itself. By any chance is it cyclical??

    Call me sceptic about global warming.

    Don’t think anyone denies there is annatural cycle to how the earth regulates itself, there plenty of evidence that is the case.

    What is concerning is the additional change driven by man made factors, that’s again a proven fact, over and over.

    Both added together seem to be pushing a runaway warming effect.

    We can’t influence the natural cycle.

    But we can effect our effect on the climate. That’s the key here, we should be doing what we can to mitigate our effects.

    I’m not saying we need to go back to neolithic era living but we need to identify areas that we can modify while supporting a developing civilisation.

    Food production is definitely one area, but so are transportation and energy production. Best case we will reduce our effects on the planet and let it find a balance, worst case we will have less effect on the planet, it’s kinda a no brainier, there is no loose out here.


Advertisement