Traditional vs humanist funerals

completedit · 10-01-2021 6:02pm #1

Has anyone ever been at a humanist funeral? They seem quite freaky from what I've heard. Lack any sort of the metaphorical or symbolic power of the tradition funeral and sound more like an evening gala than a time honored ritual. Lack depth based on what I've heard.

Funerals can also leave us a bit detached in this hyper individualstic culture we live in. So little time is spend on the deceased that it's easy to forget that this is a send off to a loved one. You have to be deeper to appreciate the trsiditonal funeral because its less on the nose than humanist versions. Different stokes though.

hynesie08 · 10-01-2021 6:06pm

Sounds great to me, cremate me in the morning, stick my ashes on a high stool while the celebrant invites people to tell stories and a band plays in the corner. Money I would have spent on a coffin and burial plot goes behind the bar....

branie2 · 10-01-2021 6:07pm

No, just church funerals

Loveinapril · 10-01-2021 6:08pm

I have only been to one, the father of my husband's friend, and I cried my way through it. It was beautiful and personal and no 'breaks' in the service to chant random prayers. The deceased was the focus. And the funeral was only attended by people connected to the man, unlike in a church where mass goers go in for a nosey.

My whole family will be having humanist funerals.

Upforthematch · 10-01-2021 6:15pm

I don't see anything wrong or freaky with a humanist funeral if that is what the person and family want? I'm sure they can have as much symbolic power as any other type of funeral. A lot of people see funerals as celebrating the life of the person whether their humanist or christian.

Perhaps the biggest differences are the venue of the church and parts the christian funerals add in about meeting family in eternal life, God's judgment etc...

The_Brood · 10-01-2021 6:17pm

I think Europe/the west has funerals completely wrong. Everyone dies, there is no spoiler alert in that. African dance and song celebration funerals are the way to go. What is the point in mourning the inevitable? Funerals should be a celebration of the life that was lived and, perhaps hopefully, the journey the soul is to continue to take, if one believes as such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EroOICwfD3g&t=51s&ab_channel=BBCNewsAfrica

If this was actually adopted is the majority funeral practice, I think it would greatly improve societal mental health as a whole.

Tork · 10-01-2021 6:17pm

Why would they be freaky? I haven't been to one so I can't comment on them. Are you bothered by God not being mentioned?

I have been to humanist weddings and thought they were lovely, personal ceremonies. They still had a wedding-y feel to them but instead of readings, had poems and some nice things written up about the couple getting married.

completedit · 10-01-2021 6:20pm

The_Brood wrote: »

I think Europe/the west has funerals completely wrong. Everyone dies, there is no spoiler alert in that. African dance and song celebration funerals are the way to go. What is the point in mourning the inevitable? Funerals should be a celebration of the life that was lived and, perhaps hopefully, the journey the soul is to continue to take, if one believes as such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EroOICwfD3g&t=51s&ab_channel=BBCNewsAfrica

If this was actually adopted is the majority funeral practice, I think it would greatly improve societal mental health as a whole.

Because in Europe tradition and spiritualism meet rationalism and science so we don't know how to mourn. I think Ireland celebrates death so well because people truly believed that salvation beckoned in the next life.

Larbre34 · 10-01-2021 6:22pm

The whole point is, they aren't time honoured. I'm not a practising humanist or even very informed about the ritual, but I have attended 3 humanist funerals and one humanist wedding and the whole point of it is that the person is, if you like, sovereign and the the celebration is of their life and of their impact on others and on the World.

Last summer, when restrictions were at their lowest, I went to a humanist funeral held in a natural burial ground in County Wexford. About 40 people were there.

The deceased had lived quite a long life and had an amazing loving family as well as great achievements in work and the Community, but he had cancer and wasn't long retired.

The entire ceremony happened at the burial ground, he was carried up the lane by his family and friends and laid in the ground, while his favourite music and poetry was read and people chose to tell a few stories about him, including some things others might have known. The humanist celebrant just MCd the event and spoke herself about the planning he had done with her for his own funeral.

When the main bit was over, everyone that wanted to took turns filling in the grave, which took maybe 40 minutes, while others chatted and kids ran off chasing wildlife. Once the grave was filled, people planted native wildflowers and shrubs they had been asked to bring. It was a new idea to me, but the graves nearby that had begun to mature looked beautiful, full of colour and bees flying about.

In the end, his kids and grandkids placed a painted rock from his home, with his name decorated on it, onto the grave and people drifted away, a few had picnics in the carpark due to the Covid restrictions and the distance they had come etc.

Now, I'm not religious and have always had some basic ideas about my own send off, hopefully many years from now - but given the choice between a traditional Catholic funeral and what I saw that day, I know what I like the idea more of.

At the same time, I know traditional religious services are a great comfort for those of faith, so each to their own.

PCeeeee · 10-01-2021 6:24pm

hynesie08 wrote: »

Sounds great to me, cremate me in the morning, stick my ashes on a high stool while the celebrant invites people to tell stories and a band plays in the corner. Money I would have spent on a coffin and burial plot goes behind the bar....

Is cremation cheap? I have honestly never thought about it?

Tork · 10-01-2021 6:25pm

It's cheaper but a funeral is still a big bill.

From Stafford's website

There is a common but inaccurate perception in Ireland that a cremation costs considerably less than a burial. In actual fact, the significant cost difference occurs only when a family does not already possess a family grave plot, and thereby have to incur the cost of a new plot, which can indeed be expensive. ...In general, burial costs a little more than cremation. The cost of opening an existing grave in Dublin is between €900-€1120. A Cremation can cost between €590-€670 but extra costs accrue depending on your chosen options like booking a place in the Garden of Remembrance.

Gregor Samsa · 10-01-2021 6:26pm

The vast majority of Catholic funerals I’ve been to have been totally by the standard script. Apart from the picture on the coffin, maybe some of the items left on the altar, and the odd eulogy (which aren’t allowed in some parishes), any one funeral is hard to tell from the next. So I’m not sure what “depth” would be missing. The movement you feel at a funeral usually comes from your relationship with the deceased or their family, as opposed to anything specific to do with the ceremony.

At least the humanist ones allow for a bit of personalisation.

Guy:Incognito · 10-01-2021 6:32pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

The vast majority of Catholic funerals I’ve been to have been totally by the standard script. Apart from the picture in the coffin, maybe some of the items left on the altar, and the odd eulogy (which aren’t allowed in some parishes), any one funeral is hard to tell from the next.so I’m not sure what “depth” would be missing. The movement you feel at a funeral usually comes from your relationship with the deceased or their family, as opposed to anything specific to do with the ceremony.

At least the humanist ones allow for a bit of personalisation.

My dad and my grandads funerals actually annoyed me (my dad was as far from religious as you can be so be normal traditional funeral shouldn't have been done but I was in no state at the time to put a stop to it) . The priests giving a speech about people they don't know from info given to them (not their fault but a crap way to do it) . My grandads house in 100m from a pub and the priest was going on about him enjoying himself going to the pub. Only thing was, outside of my nannies funeral a decade earlier, I don't remember him setting foot in the place and I never saw him drinking.

Gregor Samsa · 10-01-2021 6:40pm

hynesie08 wrote: »

Sounds great to me, cremate me in the morning, stick my ashes on a high stool while the celebrant invites people to tell stories and a band plays in the corner. Money I would have spent on a coffin and burial plot goes behind the bar....

Cremation usually happens after a funeral, not before it. You can also be waiting quite a while to get the ashes. I mean, it would be possible to do what you describe, but not on the timescales we’re used to in Irish funerals.

My Dad was cremated in May last year - it was July before his ashes were put in his memorial spot in Glasnevin. I had actually assumed that they were put straight in after the cremation, so I hadn’t given it any thought (we already had the place for them there, as my mother died a decade ago), but I got a call one day during the summer telling me they were only putting his ashes in that day.

hynesie08 · 10-01-2021 7:03pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Cremation usually happens after a funeral, not before it. You can also be waiting quite a while to get the ashes. I mean, it would be possible to do what you describe, but not on the timescales we’re used to in Irish funerals.

My Dad was cremated in May last year - it was July before his ashes were put in his memorial spot in Glasnevin. I had actually assumed that they were put straight in after the cremation, so I hadn’t given it any thought (we already had the place for them there, as my mother died a decade ago), but I got a call one day during the summer telling me they were only putting his ashes in that day.

Fair enough, replace ashes with life size cardboard cut out....... The rest stays the same.

Tippman24 · 10-01-2021 7:46pm

I was at a funeral back in the 80s of a gentleman who insisted that there be no religious input. the cortege arrived in Mount Jerome (?) and the remains were brought to the graveside. A few of us were wondering what happens next went a friend of the deceased gave a short speech. That was it and we all went our seperate ways. I remember one of the people at same who like myself had only experience Church funerals at one point turning to me and asking "What happens now." It was unusual back in the 1980s to have a non-religious rite of passage to the next life.

Thelonious Monk · 10-01-2021 7:51pm

The Catholic ones are awful anyway, I'd rather not have to go to a church or expect anyone to have to go to one for mine.

Water John · 10-01-2021 8:23pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The Catholic ones are awful anyway, I'd rather not have to go to a church or expect anyone to have to go to one for mine.

It's so dependent on the priest. Some poor and others exceptionally good.

PCeeeee · 10-01-2021 8:52pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The Catholic ones are awful anyway, I'd rather not have to go to a church or expect anyone to have to go to one for mine.

It's one of the reasons I'd have a Catholic funeral, it'd make it easier for my family/friends.

eviltwin · 10-01-2021 8:59pm

I was at a humanist funeral this year in the deceased’s home and it was beautiful which was surprising given the person who died was young and died in tragic circumstances. It was a celebration of a life and very personal to the deceased. Despite the sadness there were lots of stories, memories, laughter, songs. I just wish he’d been there to see it himself. Definitely how I want it done for me.

Thelonious Monk · 10-01-2021 9:19pm

PCeeeee wrote: »

It's one of the reasons I'd have a Catholic funeral, it'd make it easier for my family/friends.

why would it be easier for them?

the beer revolu · 10-01-2021 9:23pm

My father-in-law wasn't religious but was very conservative in most every other way. We had a funeral when he died. We didn't have a "humanist funeral", we had a non religious funeral at which a humanist celebrant spoke at key moments, appropriately and sensitively, respecting everyone's beliefs.
It wasn't in any way freaky, cold or strange and was appropriate for a conservative, non religious English man.
(it was a burial of ashes)
The day was not dissimilar to an Irish, traditional funeral, generally, in this case but without the church and prayers. There was ceremony, people, food and drink, chat and reminiscing.

PCeeeee · 10-01-2021 9:33pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

why would it be easier for them?

My family especially are Catholic, I would imagine that they (my Mother in particular) would worry for my immortal soul were I not to get the ceremony.

As to my friends, I like the routine of a funeral, you know what to do, the things to say, the way it goes, it's nice to have a familiar structure. I just think it would be easier.

I'll be dead, nothing will bother me, I'd hope it would be easier for someone mourning.

Thelonious Monk · 10-01-2021 9:39pm

In January, the musician David Bowie didn't have a funeral either - his body was cremated in New York without any of his friends or family present. This type of ending, where a coffin goes straight from the place of death to the cremator, where it is burned, is known as a "direct cremation".

David Bowie did the above. Always appealed to me, I hate the idea of people moping around when I die (if anyone was bothered!).
I remember reading the BFG as a kid and the giants would just appear one day and disappear one day, I always liked the idea of that instead of the rigmarole of a funeral.

10-01-2021 9:47pm

I was at a humanist funeral in IMMA a few years back. It was exactly the same as a church funeral except all the god stuff was replaced with people talking about the deceased. It was wonderful.

suicide_circus · 10-01-2021 9:55pm

There's something to be said for "by the numbers" institutional choreography when you're too in bits grieving to put much thought into a unique production.

PCeeeee · 10-01-2021 9:56pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

There's something to be said for "by the numbers" institutional choreography when you're too in bits grieving to put much thought into a unique production.

Thank you. That is a much more lucid version of what I was was thinking.

Ubbquittious · 10-01-2021 10:47pm

These are funerals for bitter atheists who have beef with the catholic church innit mate?

Tom Mann Centuria · 10-01-2021 10:51pm

My dad had a non religious funeral and it was very moving. Celebrant was excellent and made the effort of finding out about my dad's life and the service was just a celebration of what he'd got up to (well the stuff we knew about anyway). It was only short, 20 minutes because of the quick turnaround in the crematorium but I don't think you need any longer than that.

It's just a chance to say goodbye and remember the good times, you don't need religion for that.

strandroad · 10-01-2021 10:55pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

There's something to be said for "by the numbers" institutional choreography when you're too in bits grieving to put much thought into a unique production.

You don't need to put much thought in it if you're too affected, celebrants have standard ceremony plans too that they can suggest.

I haven't been to one yet but I heard of several in my circle, and the pattern seemed to be that the deceased communicated their wishes to the family in advance and included some sort of a plan or a preference list to guide them. In one case, of a person who had a long term illness, they even picked a celebrant and basically planned out the ceremony with them themselves.

hynesie08 · 10-01-2021 10:56pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

There's something to be said for "by the numbers" institutional choreography when you're too in bits grieving to put much thought into a unique production.

With unexpected deaths, maybe. But if I know I'm on the way out, I'm picking the readers, the setlist, the youtube clips, the works....

Traditional vs humanist funerals

Comments