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Is it true Irish counties were decided by the British as administrative divisions?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Does it really matter if Insect Overloads set out the Irish counties if they work and we have built up and affinity for them?

    Why don't we change the side of the road we drive on just the spite the brits?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Speaking of a 'poor education system' and 'badness', as long as one person in the Free State - namely, yourself - persists in bizarrely claiming the Irish still living under the remnant of British colonial rule that is Northern Ireland are not Irish, you're in absolutely no position to be giving out to them for calling you a Free Stater. That ridiculous excuse for logic implies that all my definitely Irish grandparents who were born in this 26-county state when it, too, was under British rule, were not Irish. Indeed, it implies that the Irish people never existed before this state came into existence on 6 December 1922.

    There's only one Ireland, no matter how many states the British might create out of this country. Country versus state. A simple distinction. That Ireland is synonymous with the Irish Republic, which remains unfulfilled for the moment and which explains why the current state is described only as the Republic of Ireland (this simple yet important nuance clearly evades some of our less refined minds).

    Make no mistake but that is very much going to change in the foreseeable future. The current two states are only a temporary little arrangement - just as they were designed to be when they were invented by the British state on 23 December 1920 - a stepping stone to Irish political freedom. That's the easy part. Freeing the mind, Irish intellectual and cultural freedom from English ways and thinking, is another thing altogether.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,520 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Owryan wrote: »
    Why hasn't a nationalistic organisation such as the GAA not restored the lost province? think of the extra cash they could squeeze from it.

    Meath might have a chance at a provincial title then!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Patww79 wrote: »
    People in Northern Ireland can't get their heads around not using Free State. A mixture of a poor education system and badness.

    Speaking of a 'poor education system' and 'badness', as long as one person in the Free State - namely, yourself - persists in bizarrely claiming the Irish still living under the remnant of British colonial rule that is Northern Ireland are not Irish, you're in absolutely no position to be giving out to them for calling you a Free Stater. That ridiculous excuse for logic implies that all my definitely Irish grandparents who were born in this 26-county state when it, too, was under British rule, were not Irish. Indeed, it implies that the Irish people never existed before this state came into existence on 6 December 1922.  

    There's only one Ireland, no matter how many states the British might create out of this country. Country versus state. A simple distinction. That Ireland is synonymous with the Irish Republic, which remains unfulfilled for the moment and which explains why the current state is described only as the Republic of Ireland (this simple yet important nuance clearly evades some of our less refined minds).

    Make no mistake but that is very much going to change in the foreseeable future. The current two states are only a temporary little arrangement - just as they were designed to be when they were invented by the British state on 23 December 1920 - a stepping stone to Irish political freedom. That's the easy part. Freeing the mind, Irish intellectual and cultural freedom from English ways and thinking, is another thing altogether.
    Do you want a 32 county socialist Irish Republic? One in the image of James Connolly? If so, be honest with the Irish people on this forum and tell them that is the vision you have. James Connolly said himself replacing one flag for another while the English banking institutions rule over you won't change anything. 

    Do you want to see the destruction of the capitalist system in Ireland? The destruction of free trade, the introduction of collectivization, public ownership of means of production, the destruction of private property?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Taytoland wrote: »
    Do you want a 32 county socialist Irish Republic? One in the image of James Connolly? If so, be honest with the Irish people on this forum and tell them that is the vision you have. James Connolly said himself replacing one flag for another while the English banking institutions rule over you won't change anything. 

    Do you want to see the destruction of the capitalist system in Ireland? The destruction of free trade, the introduction of collectivization, public ownership of means of production, the destruction of private property?

    For the moment, let's just focus on ending British rule and reunifying Ireland. The democratic wishes of the people acting free from foreign rule will work the details of the new state out. It's called democracy. By the way, you may have missed it but this state (and your own British state) is far more 'socialist' now than it was under British rule. In terms of improving the welfare, education and housing of the slum-dwelling abject poor of Dublin in 1913, much of what Connolly wanted has become a reality thanks to the welfare state - something which was introduced by conservative politicians largely out of a fear of the growth of communism (not out of a newfound niceness by the powerful). Those enormous social advances which improved the lives of most Irish people are also under threat now from a huge shift to the right and growing inequality in the western world. Like many others who are aware of our very recent past I'm solidly against that usurpation of the socially progressive and democratic capitalist state by a bunch of rabble-rising neocons and populists and their historically ignorant followers.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Taytoland wrote: »
    Do you want a 32 county socialist Irish Republic? One in the image of James Connolly? If so, be honest with the Irish people on this forum and tell them that is the vision you have. James Connolly said himself replacing one flag for another while the English banking institutions rule over you won't change anything. 

    Do you want to see the destruction of the capitalist system in Ireland? The destruction of free trade, the introduction of collectivization, public ownership of means of production, the destruction of private property?

    For the moment, let's just focus on ending British rule and reunifying Ireland. The democratic wishes of the people acting free from foreign rule will work the details of the new state out. It's called democracy. By the way, you may have missed it but this state (and your own British state) is far more 'socialist' now than it was under British rule. In terms of improving the welfare, education and housing of the slum-dwelling abject poor of Dublin in 1913, much of what Connolly wanted has become a reality thanks to the welfare state - something which was introduced by conservative politicians largely out of a fear of the growth of communism (not out of a newfound niceness by the powerful). Those enormous social advances which improved the lives of most Irish people are also under threat now from a huge shift to the right and growing inequality in the western world. Like many others who are aware of our very recent past I'm solidly against that usurpation of the socially progressive and democratic capitalist state by a bunch of rabble-rising neocons and populists and their historically ignorant followers.

    Leo Varadkar has turned the state into a low corporation tax state, a glorified tax avoiding heaven. It's not good enough to just say you want unity. You aren't giving any details on what you want it to look like, how the economics will work. Would you embrace corporations like Leo Varadkar and modern Irish politicians or do you want a Socialist Irish Republic with wealth redistribution at the heart of it, overthrowing the capitalist class in Ireland?

    Do you want to remain part of the capitalist neoliberal European Union?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    lawred2 wrote: »
    :confused:

    Many county boundaries follow natural borders - the Shannon is a major one, and the Barrow. Also, the Blackstairs Mountains divide Carlow from Wexford


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Why does the GAA, an organisation that prides itself on Irish nationalism, prpgate this British invention?

    the whole idea of county teams was borrowed from cricket


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,493 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    If so why didn't the Irish Free State scrap them and come up with our own county boundaries? Why does the GAA, an organisation that prides itself on Irish nationalism, prpgate this British invention?
    Establishment of counties as we currently know them was in 1898. Most of those counties were closely based on previous boundaries, but there were changes, especially where towns straddled boundaries. In the 1898-1922 era, local government was a solely Irish affair and councils jealously guarded this relative independence.
    ACADasltiv wrote: »
    There was always going to be a need to subdivide the country and set out proper boundaries. I don't think there's cause for anger about counties which were founded soon enough after the Norman invasion (especially considering the Norman's had invaded England relatively recently).

    Norman conquest of England: 1066. Norman conquest of Ireland: 1169. That's a difference of 103 years - several generations! :)
    Waterford had no border imposed upon it The county line follows two rivers - Suir and Blackwater, if you dug a 8-10 mile long trench in the right bit of west waterford we'd be an island.
    You forget the Suir has a slope.

    There is a thin sliver of Waterford north of the Suir at Waterford train station.
    goose2005 wrote: »
    Many county boundaries follow natural borders - the Shannon is a major one, and the Barrow.
    This is a slight simplification - both Limerick and Westmeath straddle the Shannon (as does Leitrim).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Speaking of a 'poor education system' and 'badness', as long as one person in the Free State - namely, yourself - persists in bizarrely claiming the Irish still living under the remnant of British colonial rule that is Northern Ireland are not Irish, you're in absolutely no position to be giving out to them for calling you a Free Stater. That ridiculous excuse for logic implies that all my definitely Irish grandparents who were born in this 26-county state when it, too, was under British rule, were not Irish. Indeed, it implies that the Irish people never existed before this state came into existence on 6 December 1922.

    There's only one Ireland, no matter how many states the British might create out of this country. Country versus state. A simple distinction. That Ireland is synonymous with the Irish Republic, which remains unfulfilled for the moment and which explains why the current state is described only as the Republic of Ireland (this simple yet important nuance clearly evades some of our less refined minds).

    Make no mistake but that is very much going to change in the foreseeable future. The current two states are only a temporary little arrangement - just as they were designed to be when they were invented by the British state on 23 December 1920 - a stepping stone to Irish political freedom. That's the easy part. Freeing the mind, Irish intellectual and cultural freedom from English ways and thinking, is another thing altogether.

    The current state is constitutionally named Ireland, the Republic of Ireland is a description.

    There’s no naming distinction between an Irish republic or a Republic of Ireland that tells you anything about its legitimacy.

    More important to this thread the name of this state is not the Irish Free State. Please use the proper nomenclature.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,972 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    goose2005 wrote: »
    the whole idea of county teams was borrowed from cricket

    Tipperary and Kilkenny were the strongholds of cricket. In the 1870's Tipp had 43 clubs and Kilkenny had 45

    They never lost their ball skills, just transferred over to a new code :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Tipperary and Kilkenny were the strongholds of cricket. In the 1870's Tipp had 43 clubs and Kilkenny had 45

    They never lost their ball skills, just transferred over to a new code :)

    Yes, that is very true.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭dd972


    I've always wondered how the Beara peninsula got split between Cork and Kerry, just seems illogical that the whole thing isn't one or the other.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    It never fails to surprise me the number of things people manage to blame on "the Brits".

    It's mad isn't it? you'd think the brits ran the place for the guts of 500 years they way people go on.

    Anyway you were making a point of some sort, do continue :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Bambi wrote: »
    It never fails to surprise me the number of things people manage to blame on "the Brits".

    It's mad isn't it? you'd think the brits ran the place for the guts of 500 years they way people go on.

    Anyway you were making a point of some sort, do continue :)
    It will soon be 100 years. Take responsibility for once.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Taytoland wrote: »
    It will soon be 100 years. Take responsibility for once.

    Oh don't worry we'll be taking responsibility for all 32 of the British made counties on this wee island soon enough.

    We might even pull that backward northern province dragging and screaming out of the economic ****heap its been on for the last 80 odd years :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Bambi wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    It will soon be 100 years. Take responsibility for once.

    Oh don't worry we'll be taking responsibility for all 32 of the British made counties on this wee island soon enough.

    We might even pull that backward northern province dragging and screaming out of the economic ****heap its been on for the last 80 odd years :)

    And I'll be flying to the moon tomorrow. Behave and take responsibility for your governance. Stop blaming the "Brits".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Taytoland wrote: »
    And I'll be flying to the moon tomorrow. Behave and take responsibility for your governance. Stop blaming the "Brits".

    Be sure to bring a fleg with you :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,257 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Taytoland wrote: »
    It will soon be 100 years. Take responsibility for once.
    Bambi wrote: »
    It's mad isn't it? you'd think the brits ran the place for the guts of 500 years they way people go on.

    Anyway you were making a point of some sort, do continue :)




    The feckers are still here. A few miles up the road. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    goose2005 wrote: »
    the whole idea of county teams was borrowed from cricket


    there were no county 'teams' as we know them no in the early years. A club, usually the co champions represented the county in the provincial and all ireland cships


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    goose2005 wrote: »
    the whole idea of county teams was borrowed from cricket

    The last county to be shired in Ireland was Wicklow. Yes, that is the correct verb. The counties were shired, or put under the control of a sheriff.

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/braypeople/news/wicklow-last-county-formed-because-of-rebellious-clans-26970327.html

    Funny thing about republicanism in Ireland is that the founder of Sinn Féin was keen on copying the dual monarchy thing going on in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    http://www.askaboutireland.ie/narrative-notes/arthur-griffith-(1871-192/index.xml


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Any attempts to change it now will be met with huge opposition most of the population identify strongly with the county they are born and grew up and their counties GAA team its been that way well over a century now so any attempt to change it is on a hiding to nothing. When Limerick and Clare meet in a provisional hurling county championship you can really see the passion from both sets of fans for their county teams do you seriously think they would be willing to give that up for the sake of a redrawing of boundaries not a chance in hell, the same goes for all others as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,535 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    my3cents wrote: »
    But where is Taytoland and can we blame the Brits for it?

    Tayto Land is partitioned into North Tayto and South Tayto.

    Tayto-Logo-4.png

    200px-Mr_tayto.jpg

    Scrap the cap!



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