RTA. Claim process? Dash cam footage of other party in the wrong.

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 2:51pm #1

Hi
I was in a RTA couple of weeks ago. Travelling as a passenger while working on a mini bus.
Head on collision with another vehicle. Dash cam footage shows other party completely in the wrong. Went to a and e with chest and back pain after accident. Sent home that night with valium amand d painkillers.
I am off work at the minute. My job is very physical, i tried to go back one day last week but went home as my back and neck started to really hurt i didn't give myself enough time to recover after the accident.
I am now out of work for the next two weeks at least. Painkillers for the pain. Trying to rest it with two small children to mind isnt easy. Going to look into physio.
I'm unsure whether to contact a solicitor or address the injury board myself.
Thanks for replies

seagull · 21-01-2020 6:10pm

Have you been in contact with the insurers?

punisher5112 · 21-01-2020 6:12pm

You need to speak with insurance company if they fob you off then get a solicitor.

I would advise getting physio for sure as I left it in a crash and I paid for not doing it.

Which insurer have you contacted if any?

Does work pay if out?

Go to the doctor I'm sure you have get signed off till you're ready and put the social welfare forms in asap that the doctor will fill out.

Keep receipts for everything including pain killers and doc visit as you will get this back.

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 6:13pm

seagull wrote: »

Have you been in contact with the insurers?

No I have not yet. Should I?

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 6:37pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

You need to speak with insurance company if they fob you off then get a solicitor.

I would advise getting physio for sure as I left it in a crash and I paid for not doing it.

Which insurer have you contacted if any?

Does work pay if out?

Go to the doctor I'm sure you have get signed off till you're ready and put the social welfare forms in asap that the doctor will fill out.

Keep receipts for everything including pain killers and doc visit as you will get this back.

Thanks for reply.
Work have been great. They have reimbursed us for doctor and a and e fees. Only 4 weeks payed sick leave, after that its the social welfare.
Yes seeing doctor thursday and will back date forms to the day if accident.
Just want to get back on my feet. I don't want to file a claim against work, just the other driver.
I contacted a solicitor today who advised telling my doctor this week that I am filing a claim and also to ask for a mri scan.

Darc19 · 21-01-2020 6:41pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

I contacted a solicitor today who advised telling my doctor this week that I am filing a claim and also to ask for a mri scan.

Mri scan?

Let the doctor decide not some insurance chasing solicitor who has no medical experience.

All the solicitor is thinking of is how much they can get out of it

punisher5112 · 21-01-2020 6:47pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

Thanks for reply.
Work have been great. They have reimbursed us for doctor and a and e fees. Only 4 weeks payed sick leave, after that its the social welfare.
Yes seeing doctor thursday and will back date forms to the day if accident.
Just want to get back on my feet. I don't want to file a claim against work, just the other driver.
I contacted a solicitor today who advised telling my doctor this week that I am filing a claim and also to ask for a mri scan.

MRI scan is jumping ahead there.

I have been unfortunately been in quite a few crashes driving and passenger over the years.

Get physio and try get walking etc but only once your doctor advised you to do so.

Take your time and don't rush as if there is any serious damage you don't want to make it worse.

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 6:52pm

Darc19 wrote: »

Mri scan?

Let the doctor decide not some insurance chasing solicitor who has no medical experience.

All the solicitor is thinking of is how much they can get out of it

My exact thoughts an MRI scan seems excessiveðŸ€¦*♀️

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 6:54pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

MRI scan is jumping ahead there.

I have been unfortunately been in quite a few crashes driving and passenger over the years.

Get physio and try get walking etc but only once your doctor advised you to do so.

Take your time and don't rush as if there is any serious damage you don't want to make it worse.

Thanks. So do you think theres any need for a MRI scan? Where do I go from here in your experience.

punisher5112 · 21-01-2020 6:59pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

Thanks. So do you think theres any need for a MRI scan? Where do I go from here in your experience.

MRI is sort of last resort if issues persist....

Obviously I'm no doctor so can't comment but neither can a solicitor as they can advise of course but a doctor would decide that.

I'd get the physio and go with someone that has credentials for it and are certified.

I've gone through the process and it really depends on how well you heal and process you know you've made.

Insurance is there for this exact reason and if you're down wages this will be also fixed.

Don't hesitate to pm or whatever if you have any issues.

ED E · 21-01-2020 7:03pm

Its worth noting your boss needs to report this to the HSA if you've missed three days work, if your boss is you then you need to report it.

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 9:23pm

Thankyou for all your advice

punisher5112 wrote: »

MRI is sort of last resort if issues persist....

Obviously I'm no doctor so can't comment but neither can a solicitor as they can advise of course but a doctor would decide that.

I'd get the physio and go with someone that has credentials for it and are certified.

I've gone through the process and it really depends on how well you heal and process you know you've made.

Insurance is there for this exact reason and if you're down wages this will be also fixed.

Don't hesitate to pm or whatever if you have any issues.

AndrewJRenko · 21-01-2020 9:30pm

Is the mini-bus and driver part of your organisation, or is it contracted in? I'm presuming that you were travelling on the bus under your employer's instructions?

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 9:33pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is the mini-bus and driver part of your organisation, or is it contracted in? I'm presuming that you were travelling on the bus under your employer's instructions?

Yes, mini bus and driver part of the organisation.
Yes travelling on the bus during working hours under employer's instructions.

Eggs For Dinner · 21-01-2020 10:30pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

Yes, mini bus and driver part of the organisation.
Yes travelling on the bus during working hours under employer's instructions.

That is not important if the other driver is at fault. It is a standard RTA and your right of redress is directly against the other driver.

Your employer would only be involved if the driver of their minibus was in some way negligent

cuddlebutt · 21-01-2020 10:35pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

That is not important if the other driver is at fault. It is a standard RTA and your right of redress is directly against the other driver.

Your employer would only be involved if the driver of their minibus was in some way negligent

The other driver was at fault. The driver of the mini bus was not.

Eggs For Dinner · 21-01-2020 10:47pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

The other driver was at fault. The driver of the mini bus was not.

That's my point

AndrewJRenko · 21-01-2020 11:20pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

The other driver was at fault. The driver of the mini bus was not.

I'd get a solicitor's advice on this. There may be reasons for taking action against the employer and/or the minibus insurance company, and leaving them to take action against the other driver/insurer.

If you do end up being out of pocket due to loss of earnings, this could become a very substantial claim.

Eggs For Dinner · 21-01-2020 11:28pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd get a solicitor's advice on this. There may be reasons for taking action against the employer and/or the minibus insurance company, and leaving them to take action against the other driver/insurer.

If you do end up being out of pocket due to loss of earnings, this could become a very substantial claim.

How do you consider the OP's employer to have breached his duty of care to his employee?

punisher5112 · 21-01-2020 11:38pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd get a solicitor's advice on this. There may be reasons for taking action against the employer and/or the minibus insurance company, and leaving them to take action against the other driver/insurer.

If you do end up being out of pocket due to loss of earnings, this could become a very substantial claim.

What????

It's up to the person's at faults insurer.

We have established this from the original post where the op states the other party was at fault.

Any out of expense items or wages lost will be compensated but how long is the only question.

AndrewJRenko · 22-01-2020 12:11pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

How do you consider the OP's employer to have breached his duty of care to his employee?

punisher5112 wrote: »

What????

It's up to the person's at faults insurer.

We have established this from the original post where the op states the other party was at fault.

Any out of expense items or wages lost will be compensated but how long is the only question.

There isn't enough information here, but there could be questions about;

- how the employer recruits and trains the driver
- how the employer maintains the bus
- what seat belts are available, and what procedures are in place to ensure they are worn

You don't want to get caught up in a legal dispute about liability and blame for the collision. If you're injured at work, your employer should (in theory) look after you.

cuddlebutt · 22-01-2020 1:10pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There isn't enough information here, but there could be questions about;

- how the employer recruits and trains the driver
- how the employer maintains the bus
- what seat belts are available, and what procedures are in place to ensure they are worn

You don't want to get caught up in a legal dispute about liability and blame for the collision. If you're injured at work, your employer should (in theory) look after you.

Hi I was a passenger in the minibus I work for during working hours carrying out the job I am employed to do. The driver of the mini bus was also injured. The other driver has admitted liability and dash cam footage shows they were 100% in the wrong. We are both off work now claiming social welfare. We have sick pay in work but that will run iut in about a week and a half. I do not want to want to claim from where I Work as I don't see how our workplace is liable? I do want to claim from the party who was in the wrong.
I do hope to be back working in a few more weeks. At the minute I am unable as my job is physical and as I said I tried to go back one day last week and ending up going home as I was unable to carry out my duties without being in pain. So I am resting as much as I can now going back to doctor thursday, I will ask for physio, another cert for a couple of weeks till I'm ok and I do believe I will be ok in time.
Work has said they want me to be well coming back not 50% like I was when I went back one day last week.
As I said above I've contacted a solicitor whonsaid get a MRI? Just seems excessive and I don't want to get myself into a legal muddle with a money hungry solicitor who will prop me up for financial gain.
Thanks for reading.

AndrewJRenko · 22-01-2020 1:42pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

Hi I was a passenger in the minibus I work for during working hours carrying out the job I am employed to do. The driver of the mini bus was also injured. The other driver has admitted liability and dash cam footage shows they were 100% in the wrong. We are both off work now claiming social welfare. We have sick pay in work but that will run iut in about a week and a half. I do not want to want to claim from where I Work as I don't see how our workplace is liable? I do want to claim from the party who was in the wrong.
I do hope to be back working in a few more weeks. At the minute I am unable as my job is physical and as I said I tried to go back one day last week and ending up going home as I was unable to carry out my duties without being in pain. So I am resting as much as I can now going back to doctor thursday, I will ask for physio, another cert for a couple of weeks till I'm ok and I do believe I will be ok in time.
Work has said they want me to be well coming back not 50% like I was when I went back one day last week.
As I said above I've contacted a solicitor whonsaid get a MRI? Just seems excessive and I don't want to get myself into a legal muddle with a money hungry solicitor who will prop me up for financial gain.
Thanks for reading.

It's your call, though:

I'd be inclined to leave questions of liability to the legal folks involved - there may be stuff going on that you're not aware of. When was the last time the brakes were serviced on your bus, for example?
I understand the reluctance to take action against your employer. If this is a short term issue that requires a few physio sessions to address, you're probably on the right track. If this proves to be an issue of lifetime chronic pain and unable to continue in your current career, you may not have the luxury of choosing who you want to sue.

seagull · 22-01-2020 2:23pm

I'd expect your employer's insurance to be giving you some guidance on this. Given you were travelling in your employer's vehicle, you could claim from them and then leave it to them to go after the driver who caused the accident.

Eggs For Dinner · 22-01-2020 2:42pm

seagull wrote: »

I'd expect your employer's insurance to be giving you some guidance on this. Given you were travelling in your employer's vehicle, you could claim from them and then leave it to them to go after the driver who caused the accident.

You cannot claim against your employer if they were not liable for the injury caused to their employee. Yes, a duty of care is owed, but where have they breached that duty?

*We are taking the OP's word that there is no doubt the other driver clearly caused the accident.

AndrewJRenko · 22-01-2020 9:57pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

You cannot claim against your employer if they were not liable for the injury caused to their employee. Yes, a duty of care is owed, but where have they breached that duty?

*We are taking the OP's word that there is no doubt the other driver clearly caused the accident.

With all due respect, it is unlikely that the OP has either sufficient information or the technical skill to make that judgement.

cuddlebutt · 22-01-2020 10:46pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

With all due respect, it is unlikely that the OP has either sufficient information or the technical skill to make that judgement.

The other driver admitted liability at the scene. My company has already filed a claim for a new bus.

punisher5112 · 22-01-2020 10:48pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

With all due respect, it is unlikely that the OP has either sufficient information or the technical skill to make that judgement.

Insurance is there for a reason and it's up to the person's that are at faults side to rectify any issues.

Darc19 · 22-01-2020 11:53pm

I think Andrewjrenko could be correct as the op was working at the time.

Maybe check with someone who has knowledge of the intricacies of workplace accidents - even if a third party is to blame.

I don't think they cannot pay you as the accident was during work hours in a work vehicle.

Different if you had the accident in your vehicle on the way home.

I'd contact the company's insurance company for their opinion - they would in turn claim off the other insurance

Eggs For Dinner · 23-01-2020 8:33am

Darc19 wrote: »

I think Andrewjrenko could be correct as the op was working at the time.

Maybe check with someone who has knowledge of the intricacies of workplace accidents - even if a third party is to blame.

I don't think they cannot pay you as the accident was during work hours in a work vehicle.

Different if you had the accident in your vehicle on the way home.

I'd contact the company's insurance company for their opinion - they would in turn claim off the other insurance

What would be the specific allegation the OP should make against the employer in this instance?

AndrewJRenko · 23-01-2020 12:48pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

The other driver admitted liability at the scene. My company has already filed a claim for a new bus.

The other driver's admission is not legally binding, and may indeed cause him difficulties with his own insurance, which may not be good news for those trying to claim off that insurance.

Your employer's claim for a new bus is entirely irrelevant to your claim.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Insurance is there for a reason and it's up to the person's that are at faults side to rectify any issues.

The employer also has Employer's Liability insurance to cover their liability to their employees.

punisher5112 · 23-01-2020 12:50pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The other driver's admission is not legally binding, and may indeed cause him difficulties with his own insurance, which may not be good news for those trying to claim off that insurance.

Your employer's claim for a new bus is entirely irrelevant to your claim.

The employer also has Employer's Liability insurance to cover their liability to their employees.

Yes but it all comes back to exactly what I said, the other parties insurance company will have to reimburse them for any monies given....

I've been there and done it.

AndrewJRenko · 23-01-2020 12:55pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes but it all comes back to exactly what I said, the other parties insurance company will have to reimburse them for any monies given....

I've been there and done it.

Reimburse who? What's to stop the employee from making a claim against their employer for injuries received while at work?

punisher5112 · 23-01-2020 12:58pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Reimburse who? What's to stop the employee from making a claim against their employer for injuries received while at work?

Then they would be reimbursed by the insurance company, it's not that difficult.

She can't claim if they aren't at fault.

I was injured at work, other driver at fault, I was paid by work and when claim was settled the job was reimbursed all the money that was paid while I was out.

AndrewJRenko · 23-01-2020 1:05pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Then they would be reimbursed by the insurance company, it's not that difficult.

Who is the 'they' that you're referring to here.

punisher5112 wrote: »

She can't claim if they aren't at fault.

That is generally correct. There isn't sufficient information here, or in the OP's head to confirm whether the employer may be at fault.

From https://mccarthy.ie/personal-injury/accident-at-work/ with my bolding

Not every accident that occurs in the workplace will give rise to an entitlement to be compensated. Unlike many other jurisdictions (such as, for example, the USA, Brazil and Australia), where workers’ compensation schemes provide that suffering an injury at work automatically entitles an employee to wage replacement and the cost of all medical treatments required, in Ireland the onus lies on an injured worker to prove that their accident was caused by some form of negligence or breach of statutory duty on the part of their employer.

If, for example, your employer was fully compliant with all applicable health and safety rules and standards, and you were injured in a freak accident which was completely unforeseeable, your employer would not be deemed to be at fault and you would not be entitled to damages , irrespective of how badly you have been injured.

However, it’s important to remember that while you may not be aware of any particular shortcoming on your employer’s part as having given rise to your injuries, that’s not to say that an experienced solicitor specialising in work-related injuries * claims who carries out a detailed investigation with the assistance of experts such as forensic engineers and health and safety consultants will not be in a position to pinpoint breaches of relevant legislation which could be used to ground a successful claim for compensation * on your behalf.

This means that while it’s unwise to assume that you’ll be entitled to recover damages if you’re injured at work no matter what, you should likewise never assume that you don’t have a good case just because you’re not aware of anything in particular being wrong in your work environment.

The safest course of action is always to provide all of the facts to a solicitor with expertise in work-related accidents * so that they can advise you on the strengths and weaknesses of your particular case. The sooner this is done the better to ensure that vital evidence that might be the difference between you winning or losing your case is not lost.

Obviously, that's from a solicitor who has a commercial vested interest in encouraging a claim, but the fact still stands.

punisher5112 wrote: »

I was injured at work, other driver at fault, I was paid by work and when claim was settled the job was reimbursed all the money that was paid while I was out.

That's good for new - not all employers are so decent. The OPs employer has a very short sick-pay period, so unless the employer steps up and does the decent thing, the OP could be out of pocket for considerable amounts very soon.

Eggs For Dinner · 23-01-2020 2:40pm

[PHP][/PHP]

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The employer also has Employer's Liability insurance to cover their liability to their employees.

That statement is correct, but I keep asking, what the specific allegation of negligence is in this instance which would give the OP a right to take an action against his employer, making him "liable"

The fact that an employee is injured during the working day does not automatically mean the employer is liable. You need to show that the employer has breached one of the following duties

Safe system of work
Safe Location
Safe equipment
Safe colleagues

Which one applies here??

AndrewJRenko · 23-01-2020 3:18pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

That statement is correct, but I keep asking, what the specific allegation of negligence is in this instance which would give the OP a right to take an action against his employer, making him "liable"

The fact that an employee is injured during the working day does not automatically mean the employer is liable. You need to show that the employer has breached one of the following duties

Safe system of work
Safe Location
Safe equipment
Safe colleagues

Which one applies here??

And I keep saying - we don't have enough information to answer that question, either to say that the employer was or wasn't negligent in some way.

Eggs For Dinner · 23-01-2020 7:26pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And I keep saying - we don't have enough information to answer that question, either to say that the employer was or wasn't negligent in some way.

Well one fact we do have is that this was a RTA. If the driver of the minibus the OP was travelling in was in some way responsible for the accient, it would be the appropriate motor policy that the OP would have to seek redress from, not an Employer's Liability policy as such incidents are excluded

AndrewJRenko · 24-01-2020 10:40pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Well one fact we do have is that this was a RTA. If the driver of the minibus the OP was travelling in was in some way responsible for the accient, it would be the appropriate motor policy that the OP would have to seek redress from, not an Employer's Liability policy as such incidents are excluded

We don't have RTAs we have RTCs. Gardai, rescue services, Road Safety Authorities don't use the word 'accident' anymore - they talk about crashes or collisions.

The word 'accident' was dreamt up by the PR industry working for the motor industry in the 1930s to sanitise the widespread mayhem that cars and trucks were causing on the road, and it stuck.

Again, we don't have anything like enough information to make judgements about liability here. What was the maintenance schedule on the bus? When was the last time the brakes were services or tyres replaced? Has the bus driver been trained or assessed recently? How do they ensure that he wasn't over the limit with a hangover before driving?

There's not enough information to judge here, so the OP shouldn't be rushing to judgement.

cuddlebutt · 25-01-2020 12:17pm

I am very confused. I was asking for advice. To make it clear, everything concerning the bus and the driver was above board, Doe, driver training, bus checks. All recorded, everything A1. Garda support all the above and the other driver I hear is being charged with an offence.
I am not seeking a payout from my company's insurance even tho they are footing the medical bills. They are reimbursing us come pay day. I've paid my medical bills and waiting to be reimbursed so I'm still out of pocket untill pay day. I've had to use my savings to pay doctors and a and e and now physio untill I'm reimbursed.
That's if I'm reimbursed for physio but i think i will be.
Food for thought, I've already contacted a solicitor who is acting on my behalf against the other might I add dangerous driver which had transpired they shouldn't of been driving at all and were told not to due to medication they were on. My colleague is more injured than I.
Are you saying because this incident happened in work and work seem to be looking after us for now (I don't know will they continue after the 4 weeks sick leave is up) that's to be decided. That I shouldn't claim a personal injury claim from the other driver.?

Wesser · 25-01-2020 12:29pm

your solicitor i assume does not have medical qualifications and is therefore not in a position to give medical advice ( i.e. to ask for an mri scan).

on the basis that your solicitior is providing medical advice which he is not qualified to do...... i would find a new solicitor.

disgraceful behaviour

cuddlebutt · 25-01-2020 12:30pm

Wesser wrote: »

your solicitor i assume does not have medical qualifications and is therefore not in a position to give medical advice ( i.e. to ask for an mri scan).

on the basis that your solicitior is providing medical advice which he is not qualified to do...... i would find a new solicitor.

disgraceful behaviour

I went to a different solicitor in the end who said what carrys a case is a legal medical report from the A @ E doctor

AndrewJRenko · 25-01-2020 12:35pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

Are you saying because this incident happened in work and work seem to be looking after us for now (I don't know will they continue after the 4 weeks sick leave is up) that's to be decided. That I shouldn't claim a personal injury claim from the other driver.?

I'm saying you should discuss that with your solicitor.

Eggs For Dinner · 25-01-2020 2:26pm

cuddlebutt wrote: »

I am very confused. I was asking for advice. To make it clear, everything concerning the bus and the driver was above board, Doe, driver training, bus checks. All recorded, everything A1. Garda support all the above and the other driver I hear is being charged with an offence.
I am not seeking a payout from my company's insurance even tho they are footing the medical bills. They are reimbursing us come pay day. I've paid my medical bills and waiting to be reimbursed so I'm still out of pocket untill pay day. I've had to use my savings to pay doctors and a and e and now physio untill I'm reimbursed.
That's if I'm reimbursed for physio but i think i will be.
Food for thought, I've already contacted a solicitor who is acting on my behalf against the other might I add dangerous driver which had transpired they shouldn't of been driving at all and were told not to due to medication they were on. My colleague is more injured than I.
Are you saying because this incident happened in work and work seem to be looking after us for now (I don't know will they continue after the 4 weeks sick leave is up) that's to be decided. That I shouldn't claim a personal injury claim from the other driver.?

Your employer's only obligation to you is what you are entitled to under your contract of employment with regard to sick pay / absences. If they are paying for your medical bills etc., you have a very good employer, but they are not obliged to do it All your other expenses are recoverable from the driver of the other vehicle and your employer should be able to take an action to recover their outlay too.

Bottom line is the wrongdoer pays all the bills

RTA. Claim process? Dash cam footage of other party in the wrong.

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