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joist hanging

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  • 02-04-2008 8:28am
    #1
    sculptor
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭


    The carpenter wants to hang the first floor joists on a timber wall plate, should they not be on metal hangers?
    The span is 12 ft. they are 7 x 2


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    #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    you cant hang 'onto' a wall plate.

    Is the cavity stopping at joist level or continuing up another storey?

    have you a professional engaged to inspect or supervise this build?


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    #3
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,821 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    He can fix them to the wallplate which has been a traditional method but its always a better job to use metal hangers.


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    #4
    250882
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭250882


    if he is fixing them onto a wallplate fixed to the blockwork then

    A) they will sit on the wallplate and you will have to slab out this wallplate with plasterboard to form a step in the ceiling. not really ideal.
    B) they will notch out the joist so that the bottom of the wallplate is level with the bottom of the joist. with this solution the joist is only as strong as the depth of timber above the notch e.g. a 174 x 44mm joist notched to fit a 75 x 100 wallplate will only have a structural depth of 75mm

    Use the joist hangers


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    #5
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    250882 wrote: »
    if he is fixing them onto a wallplate fixed to the blockwork then

    A) they will sit on the wallplate and you will have to slab out this wallplate with plasterboard to form a step in the ceiling. not really ideal.
    B) they will notch out the joist so that the bottom of the wallplate is level with the bottom of the joist. with this solution the joist is only as strong as the depth of timber above the notch e.g. a 174 x 44mm joist notched to fit a 75 x 100 wallplate will only have a structural depth of 75mm

    Use the joist hangers

    people actually do this???? :eek: my god, im glad ive never seen this on a site.... id die from the shock.

    Why go to all that trouble, notching, fixing wallplate etc, when they can just build the joists into the blockwork?????


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    #6
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I think it might be a dormer.
    It must be, or else it would be built it.


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    #7
    250882
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭250882


    Yup. I seen it done once and I had to insist that they replace the timbers as they had cut into a 225 joist by 175mm!!! I genuinely dont agree with it.

    If its a dormer then the joists will probably be resting on the wall plate and fixed into the rafters and as long as the wall plate is tied down there is no problem, but how could you use joist hangers in this situation. I got the impression that it was an intermediate floor and the wall plate solution was instead of the joist hangers. I dont agree with it and I think its a p1ss poor solution but I am not naive enough to believe that it wouldnt be done especially if there are no construction details and nobody is inspecting the site.

    Also I remember reading somewhere that homebond had a problem with building joists into the external walls, I'll look it up but if the wood is treated then I personally dont see a problem as long as the blockwork coursing lines up


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    #8
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    250882 wrote: »
    Also I remember reading somewhere that homebond had a problem with building joists into the external walls, I'll look it up but if the wood is treated then I personally dont see a problem as long as the blockwork coursing lines up

    metal hangers are the best option, but personally i wouldnt have any issue with treated timber built into blockwork, aslong as they dont protrue into the cavity.


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    #9
    sculptor
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭sculptor


    Sorry I havnt got back to you, it is an intermediate floor. Yes I think it would be a poor job. Thanks for the conformation.


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    #10
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    sculptor... have you any professional certifying this build?


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    #11
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    oh, well then, hangers it is.


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    #12
    sculptor
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭sculptor


    Sydthebeat,
    I thought I had an engineer (2400euro for 3 visits) on the last visit he told me his only responsibility was the steel work , 2 203s spanning 3m to support the remaining 8ft. of chimneybreast. Bit of an overkill.
    I also let go the builders he had recommended (left out rebar in supporting piers) Now I am responsible for the cocking ups but at half the price.
    End of rant.


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    #13
    gsxr1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭gsxr1


    sculptor wrote: »
    Sydthebeat,
    I thought I had an engineer (2400euro for 3 visits) on the last visit he told me his only responsibility was the steel work , 2 203s spanning 3m to support the remaining 8ft. of chimneybreast. Bit of an overkill.
    I also let go the builders he had recommended (left out rebar in supporting piers) Now I am responsible for the cocking ups but at half the price.
    End of rant.

    a project manager may be a good investment. Someone who can keep an eye on the quality of work being done.


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    #14
    sculptor
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭sculptor


    When I started the works last May I couldn't find anyone willing to take on such a small project, the engineer was 'doing me a favour'. Anyway they would want to live on the site to cop everything (the engineer didn't sus the rebar cheat, I did).
    Is this a common problem on small projects?
    We got the roof finished today and I'm very pleased, the apex is off centre but in line with the original roof, the end elevation is faced with the original bricks that I cleaned myself, even though I was told there weren't enough, that they was a different brick internally, that the old brick couldn't be built as an outside leaf for blocks because the courses wouldn't match and couldn't be tied. So I built to the first floor myself so the brickie could see what I wanted done.
    I have spent too long giving my best because this is what my profession is about that I cant cope with people who don't do likewise.
    And yes I sound like a pompous ass.


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    #15
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    sculptor wrote: »
    When I started the works last May I couldn't find anyone willing to take on such a small project, the engineer was 'doing me a favour'. Anyway they would want to live on the site to cop everything (the engineer didn't sus the rebar cheat, I did).
    Is this a common problem on small projects?
    We got the roof finished today and I'm very pleased, the apex is off centre but in line with the original roof, the end elevation is faced with the original bricks that I cleaned myself, even though I was told there weren't enough, that they was a different brick internally, that the old brick couldn't be built as an outside leaf for blocks because the courses wouldn't match and couldn't be tied. So I built to the first floor myself so the brickie could see what I wanted done.
    I have spent too long giving my best because this is what my profession is about that I cant cope with people who don't do likewise.
    And yes I sound like a pompous ass.

    you should expect no less, its not pomposity, its your hard earned!!

    2400 for 3 visits to sign off 2 pieces of steel seems a bit high BTW.... surely he could throw a cert of compliance in for that money.....


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    #16
    sculptor
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭sculptor


    Does this involve much work on the engineers part?, the extension/renovation is 40m2.


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    #17
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,995 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    no, all it involes is completing a certificate at completion to stated the extension is in compliance with building regs and planning permission. hes visiting the site 3 times anyway so he should have no problem doing it.


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    #18
    sculptor
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭sculptor


    Thanks


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    #19
    Dumitru Ivanov
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Dumitru Ivanov


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    no, all it involes is completing a certificate at completion to stated the extension is in compliance with building regs and planning permission. hes visiting the site 3 times anyway so he should have no problem doing it.

    Thanks for confirming. Do you know if the permission takes long to come by? What's the standard time frame?
    ___________________________
    Dumitru from Agro


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