HELP!! (coffee extraction)

alec76 · 17-05-2020 11:37am

Bluefoam wrote: »

Aghh... This is wrecking my head...

Yesterday, I got a good shot.
Grind size 8, 17 seconds
The basket was slightly over filled & the puc stuck to the head (but a nice enough shot).

Tried the same today, but dropped the grind time to 16.6 seconds... no extraction...

Increased the grind incrementally until I got an extraction at 14 grind size, but the shot wasn't good, infact it was far from drinkable.

I'm pulling my hair out... All fun though.

Have ordered a stash of Kaph blend, so hoping I don't waste too much of that.

You definitely should use scales to weight input /output.....
It is all learning curve and practice.... Better machines and grinders give you SAME ,CONSISTENT results with less effort, but even with Sage/Delonghi you will get perfect shots sooner or later.

Bluefoam · 17-05-2020 12:48pm

Oh no! Before I realised what I was doing... I started logging my progress. I'm very sad now...

Grind: 14 sec, 15 size, 17.9g
Output: 35.7g, 15.9 seconds, 17/05 sour

The Hound Gone Wild · 17-05-2020 2:56pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Oh no! Before I realised what I was doing... I started logging my progress. I'm very sad now...

Grind: 14 sec, 15 size, 17.9g
Output: 35.7g, 15.9 seconds, 17/05 sour

17.9g is a huge dose for the 54mm baskets. Drop the dose to 16g and aim for 34g in the cup in 25-28 seconds.

Keep your grind where it is, drop the dose and see what happens, then adjust the grind.

alec76 · 17-05-2020 3:26pm

When it is 18 g at 16 sec, hardly possible to get 16g in 25-28 sec with the same grind settings, otherwise totally agree.

The Hound Gone Wild · 17-05-2020 3:34pm

alec76 wrote: »

When it is 18 g at 16 sec, hardly possible to get 16g in 25-28 sec with the same grind settings, otherwise totally agree.

At the start it's good to see what changing only one parameter does. The grind will need to drop by about 5 clicks I'd imagine before he's close.

Damo 2k9 · 18-05-2020 11:51am

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

17.9g is a huge dose for the 54mm baskets. Drop the dose to 16g and aim for 34g in the cup in 25-28 seconds.

Keep your grind where it is, drop the dose and see what happens, then adjust the grind.

I started on 18g in the basket when I bought my Barista Express, it was veryyy hit and miss tho. Dropped to 16g as someone told me 18g was a lot for that basket, much better results.

I still find it hard to get past 25 seconds, even on like a 3 grind setting. The coffee is really nice tho.

Bluefoam · 18-05-2020 1:36pm

I just wanted to say: agggghhhhhhhhhh

That is all.

Planet X · 18-05-2020 1:44pm

When I had a GC, I used the pressurised basket at first.....for a while. Nice crema n all that but reading on line, was told most people don't use them, not a natural flow. It's the pin hole one right?

If so, I'd stash it away and use the normal basket. Takes a while to get it sorted re grind size etc but persevere. I used to weigh and time everything etc but after a while you'll get the hand of it. Actually, it was my wife who suggested to grind coarser (Baratza Encore). Hate to admit it but she was right. Too fine and not alot was coming out, portafilter was working it's way off and destroying the gaff!! Too much pressure, water wasn't coming through the coffee.

Like now, Rocket Appartamento, I had to buy the E61 thermometer to get used to how much to flush out the "boiling water" to get it down to the right brewing temp. It cost me about €100 or so. But essential to begin with. I was all over the place.
Trial and error and a few dozen brews it's second nature now and I don't really need the E61 brewhead thermometer. (Won't be selling it though, I don't think

)

Correct me if I'm wrong but you never see other espresso makers using a pressurised basket.

Bluefoam · 18-05-2020 1:56pm

Planet X wrote: »

When I had a GC, I used the pressurised basket at first.....for a while. Nice crema n all that but reading on line, was told most people don't use them, not a natural flow. It's the pin hole one right?

If so, I'd stash it away and use the normal basket. Takes a while to get it sorted re grind size etc but persevere. I used to weigh and time everything etc but after a while you'll get the hand of it. Actually, it was my wife who suggested to grind coarser (Baratza Encore). Hate to admit it but she was right. Too fine and not alot was coming out, portafilter was working it's way off and destroying the gaff!! Too much pressure, water wasn't coming through the coffee.

Like now, Rocket Appartamento, I had to buy the E61 thermometer to get used to how much to flush out the "boiling water" to get it down to the right brewing temp. It cost me about €100 or so. But essential to begin with. I was all over the place.
Trial and error and a few dozen brews it's second nature now and I don't really need the E61 brewhead thermometer. (Won't be selling it though, I don't think )

Correct me if I'm wrong but you never see other espresso makers using a pressurised basket.

Not using pressurised baskets

Bluefoam · 18-05-2020 3:00pm

14 sec, 15 grind, 17.9, 35.7g out, 15.9 seconds, 17/05 sour, dry puck
13.6 sec, 15 grind, 17g, 31g out, 15.3 seconds 17/05 bitter, wet puck, bad
15 sec, 12 grind, 17.63g, 9g out, 23.39 seconds,, 18/05 not good
14 sec, 12 grind. 17g, 1.7g out, 15seconds, 18/05 nothing to show
13 sec, 12 grind, 15.26g, 23g out, 16sec, 18/05 slightly sloppy puck

I need to stop drinking coffee for a while... I'm not sure where to go next with this. Might aim for a 16g grind at size 13... I'm nowhere near getting the extract time I'm looking for, although taste is a bit better. I wasn't expecting to spend a week trying to get the basics.

Squidgy Black · 18-05-2020 3:45pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

14 sec, 15 grind, 17.9, 35.7g out, 15.9 seconds, 17/05 sour, dry puck
13.6 sec, 15 grind, 17g, 31g out, 15.3 seconds 17/05 bitter, wet puck, bad
15 sec, 12 grind, 17.63g, 9g out, 23.39 seconds,, 18/05 not good
14 sec, 12 grind. 17g, 1.7g out, 15seconds, 18/05 nothing to show
13 sec, 12 grind, 15.26g, 23g out, 16sec, 18/05 slightly sloppy puck

I need to stop drinking coffee for a while... I'm not sure where to go next with this. Might aim for a 16g grind at size 13... I'm nowhere near getting the extract time I'm looking for, although taste is a bit better. I wasn't expecting to spend a week trying to get the basics.

Try and keep the amount your putting into the portafilter the same and the output, you need consistency to try and get the right variables.

So for example, use 16g every time and get 32g out. Then you try and adjust the grind finer to get closer to your desired time. Try and tamp evenly and with the same pressure each time.

The less variables you change the easier it'll be to dial in.

Bluefoam · 18-05-2020 3:56pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Try and keep the amount your putting into the portafilter the same and the output, you need consistency to try and get the right variables.

So for example, use 16g every time and get 32g out. Then you try and adjust the grind finer to get closer to your desired time. Try and tamp evenly and with the same pressure each time.

The less variables you change the easier it'll be to dial in.

That seems like a reasonable approach... I'm gonna take a break from it till tomorrow, for everything I've listed above, there's more that wasn't worth recording...

I feel like I'm at least understanding what I'm doing a bit more, so hopefully should get closer to a good shot soon...

Technocentral · 21-05-2020 11:15am

Technocentral wrote: »

It's a pity its so difficult sourcing those baskets, I ordered mine last week said mid to end of June delivery time.

Actually it arrived this morning, going to try it later.

Technocentral · 21-05-2020 2:34pm

Just had my first coffee with non pressurised basket, dialled Sage Pro to12 and it produced a richer espresso than I could get with my pressurised basket at grind size 20 which I had to use due to it choking Dedica on a lower grind size. Delighted for the change around a tenner made.

Bluefoam · 22-05-2020 11:47am

The cappucino I'm getting is usually quite tastey... But the espresso isn't so good... Any advice would be appreciated:

15 grind, 17.9g, --- Out: 35.7g, 15.9 seconds, 17/05 sour, dry puck, decent *
15 grind, 17g, --- Out: 31g, 15.3 seconds 17/05 bitter, wet puck, bad
12 grind, 17.63g, --- Out: 9g, 23.39 seconds,, 18/05 not good
12 grind. 17g, --- Out: 1.7g, 15seconds, 18/05 nothing to show
12 grind, 15.26g, --- Out: 23g, 16 seconds, 18/05 slightly sloppy puck
13 grind, 15.93g, --- Out: 27.7, 20 seconds, 18/05 wetish puck
13 grind, 16.73, --- Out: 30.85g, 16 seconds, 19/05 wet puck stuck to PF*
12 grind, 15.64, --- Out: 32.29g, 17.54 sec, 20/05 bitter, wet puk stk 2 Pk
12 grind, 15.7g, --- Out: 17g, 21.94 seconds, sour
12 grind, 16.74g, --- Out: 28.71g, 16.63 seconds,
11 grind, 16.77g, --- Out: 9.96g. 22.6 seconds
11 grind, 16g, --- Out: 1g, 24.51 seconds

adrian522 · 22-05-2020 1:56pm

You need to change 1 thing at a time. So start with 17g, grind 12 (or whatever) and pull the shot until you get to around 35g. How long does it take. If it takes longer than 30 seconds, change to a coarser grind setting, if it takes shorter than 25 seconds go with a finer grind.

Bluefoam · 22-05-2020 3:34pm

Got some advice over at the sage user group on Facebook...

14 grind at 19g... Here's what I got:
27.8g, 19.36 seconds... It's a huge improvement, I'm much closer now!!!

HELP!! (coffee extraction)

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