Epsom Derby & Oaks, Sat 04th July

Joe_ Public · 04-07-2020 5:10pm

The pack never even caught the second which is even more telling.

The Tetrarch · 04-07-2020 5:11pm

Tom Marquand on the 2nd.

ctrl-alt-delete · 04-07-2020 5:11pm

Aidan's phone going mental on ITV,

They were never going to catch that horse.

Great day for the O'Brien's

Slattsy · 04-07-2020 5:14pm

aidankkk wrote: »

For anyone who likes a less risky bet 365 are offering full cash out for the 4 places and the best of the extra place bets looks to be 70/1 6 places . I’ve gone with that .

I left it as is and got the 100s. Be brave or go home! Lol

The Tetrarch · 04-07-2020 5:17pm

The Derby time was 0.37s slower than the Oaks.
The Derby winner would have been about a length behind Love in the Oaks, the closing pack about six lengths behind Love in the Oaks.
The jocks in the Derby misjudged the pace. The Derby winning jockey didn't.

Panrich · 04-07-2020 5:17pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The pack never even caught the second which is even more telling.

or the third. First three stayed where they were.

The Tetrarch · 04-07-2020 5:19pm

English King was beaten by his draw in stall 1. :rolleyes:

supremenovice · 04-07-2020 5:20pm

Love wins the Arc in October. Hopefully Enable wins handy enough tomorrow to setup an O'Brien v Gosden match at Longchamp.

DDC1990 · 04-07-2020 5:21pm

Pity I didn't read this thread beforehand.

Serious tipping with Amhrán na bhFiann at 100/1 and plenty sweet on Serpentine.

Also funny to see the the comments on the Navan race the other day. Foreshadowing.

BumperD · 04-07-2020 5:23pm

I was waiting for Aidan to say Emmet Mac is a world class jockey and it was obvious :pac:

madmoose · 04-07-2020 5:23pm

madmoose wrote: »

I guess Serpantine will lead here and try and slip the field the way he won from the front the last day but be caught by a couple of stronger finishers.

The first part was right! Didn’t have a penny on him.

byronbay2 · 04-07-2020 5:27pm

supremenovice wrote: »

Love wins the Arc in October. Hopefully Enable wins handy enough tomorrow to setup an O'Brien v Gosden match at Longchamp.

Yeah. Should put her away now and come back in September with a view to The Arc on 04/10. Very hard to see her beaten with the 3yo and filly allowances!!

The Tetrarch · 04-07-2020 5:30pm

Galileo runners 1,3,6,7,8

Rabbit Redux · 04-07-2020 5:38pm

supremenovice wrote: »

Love wins the Arc in October. Hopefully Enable wins handy enough tomorrow to setup an O'Brien v Gosden match at Longchamp.

Coolmore might have an eye on the fillies' triple crown with her. Hasn't been done since Oh So Sharp.

BoldReason · 04-07-2020 5:56pm

That art power is an absolute weapon. He will win the 6f sprint on champions day.

Plasandrunt · 04-07-2020 6:05pm

Does Billeston Brook look big at 11/10 at Chelmsford?

Morleystreet · 04-07-2020 7:01pm

aidankkk wrote: »

Amhran Na Bhfiann, was the greenest of the runners in that top-class maiden that had its form franked in the Irish Derby. He travelled well and got worried out of it in the closing stages. 100/1 is madness considering his possible improvement. He doesn’t look the type to be a pacemaker, as he is too inexperienced. I don’t normally put up a price when its only 1 bookie, but 365 are the strongest book out there.

1 Point EW 100/1 4 places Bet365

Well done Aidan and slattsy on that call!

BoldReason · 04-07-2020 8:44pm

This stuff from Oisín Murphy is great.

https://twitter.com/oismurphy/status/1279479271984070656?s=19

Robson99 · 04-07-2020 10:26pm

Agreed. Thought he spoke very well about it.
IMO no one wanted to make the move to close the gap mid race and when Emmet mac went for home the were done by a horse with a lot of stamina

The Mig · 04-07-2020 10:50pm

Pissing and moaning about Jamie Codd a few nights ago and silence here. Just as fcuking rancid that

Francie Barrett · 04-07-2020 10:51pm

Oisin is a class act, contrast that with the utterly miserable interview that Ryan Moore gave after winning on Love.

Regarding the Derby, Emmet McNamara's comments were interesting.

"Aidan O'Brien filled me with a huge amount of confidence, so it's not a complete surprise," he said. "He told me if we got things right he was one horse who actually could win the Derby. I actually did believe him. If he tells you the sky is green, you believe him.

"During the race I thought I was getting quite an easy lead. I never looked behind but all I could hear was the horse breathing. I knew I wasn’t going a million miles an hour, so I was imagining they might be ignoring me. I was hoping the clock in my head was working a little bit because I thought I’d saved enough through the first half of the race."

It's clear Serpentine needed the strong gallop, and that is exactly the ride that Emmet gave him. As Emmet himself said, he was riding to sectional timing, and I am sure the tactics he used today were rehearsed many times over on the Ballydoyle primary gallop which was specifically designed to mimic Epsom. This is the most important day of the year for Ballydoyle and you can be sure all the bases are covered.

It's a fantastic training performance from Aidan.

tryfix · 04-07-2020 10:55pm

The race went very much like Sovereign's Irish Derby win last year, although Serpentine was unexposed so we're in the dark as to how talented he is.

There were 2 races in the one race today. Take the frontrunners out and concentrate on the fancied horses who finished on the heels of the 3rd placed frontrunner, then we have something very close to last year's pretty moderate Derby. A bunch finish of the fancied horses with the talented Kameko winning by a nose from a group of 110-112 rated horses headed by the Camelot colt English King who is probably flattered by his proximity to Kameko. While Kameko did stay the 12f, he was inconvenienced by it and that allowed English King to close on him at the line.

To my eye Mogul who was 1L behind Kameko was the most promising of this bunch, he was given a very calm clear race. Basically like his brother Japan he is getting fitter with his racing and he looked anything but the finished article today. He is being given every chance to blossom later on. He may follow his brother's route of going for the G1 Grand Prix De Paris and then on to the Juddmonte.

Not far behind Mogul were the two other fancied O'Brien horses, Russian Emperor and Vatican City. There is no real reference point to figure where these two go from here. Both stayed on well and were only 2 1/4L behind Kameko. Whether they'd prefer shorter or not isn't too clear. Neither looked to be busting a gut in the finish so it would be no surprise if one of them improved significantly from today's race.

BoldReason · 05-07-2020 12:32am

Robson99 wrote: »

Agreed. Thought he spoke very well about it.
IMO no one wanted to make the move to close the gap mid race and when Emmet mac went for home the were done by a horse with a lot of stamina

Yep I backed Kameko and was quite happy with the ride he got. It went exactly how I expected apart from the winner slipping them and he just didn't stay as he said. Couldn't fault the ride.

Morgans · 05-07-2020 9:01am

The Mig wrote: »

Pissing and moaning about Jamie Codd a few nights ago and silence here. Just as fcuking rancid that

Or neither were 'rancid'

Slattsy · 05-07-2020 9:07am

English King to one to take out of the race, if Marquand was riding him people would be slating the ride. He finished full of running under hands and heels.

Panrich · 05-07-2020 9:13am

It will be interesting to see how the horses from this race perform next. It certainly looks like form to treat with a lot of caution.
Also the next logical race for the winner is already run this year. He doesn’t strike me as an Arc type. I’d say they’ll be looking at the St Leger.

Morgans · 05-07-2020 10:08am

Slattsy wrote: »

English King to one to take out of the race, if Marquand was riding him people would be slating the ride. He finished full of running under hands and heels.

Looked slow to be and if Kameko didn't stay English King couldnt get past him having been a length down with a furlong to run.

The question is would Love have won.

Francie Barrett · 05-07-2020 10:28am

Morgans wrote: »

Looked slow to be and if Kameko didn't stay English King couldnt get past him having been a length down with a furlong to run.

The question is would Love have won.

Love would have won, especially when you consider the 3lb fillies allowance she would have got. Serpentine was flat to the boards to get up. Love ran quicker and may even have had a little extra left in the tank based on the way she finished. This was all before you even consider the allowance.

She clearly looks the best three year old out there and when you consider she will get a fillies and three year old allowance, she absolutely should be running in the Arc.

The White Wolf · 05-07-2020 10:44am

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Love would have won, especially when you consider the 3lb fillies allowance she would have got. Serpentine was flat to the boards to get up. Love ran quicker and may even have had a little extra left in the tank based on the way she finished. This was all before you even consider the allowance.

She clearly looks the best three year old out there and when you consider she will get a fillies and three year old allowance, she absolutely should be running in the Arc.

Flat to the board yet still won by 5 and a half lengths.

It really is too early to say how good Serpentine is but I can't stand the kind of spoof talk you see every time an upset is pulled off about how this and that would of won had they run. Some people really do sound just as bitter as the commentators on ITV were yesterday.

All credit to the horse that actually won and the jockey that got his tactics spot on. Hopefully the ceiling is sky high for him.

Itziger · 05-07-2020 11:28am

Did anyone else get the feeling that the horses in behind were just not very good and/or didn't stay?

Not saying the jockeys did a great job but you'd expect a good horse to at least get very close to the leader.

akelly02 · 05-07-2020 12:59pm

BoldReason wrote: »

He won the race last year.

Was a good effort from him yesterday wasn't it. Didn't half set it up for love in the oaks did he

BoldReason · 05-07-2020 3:30pm

akelly02 wrote: »

Was a good effort from him yesterday wasn't it. Didn't half set it up for love in the oaks did he

Easy there Kelly. I don't really rate Heffernan myself. Was just commenting on what you said that he might win a Derby.

Andrew00 · 05-07-2020 3:34pm

Enable has a fair bit of weight put on

slimshady007 · 05-07-2020 3:41pm

Andrew00 wrote: »

Enable has a fair bit of weight put on

A lot of us in the same boat Andrew, we were all guilty of over indulging during lockdown.

tryfix · 05-07-2020 3:45pm

That was a great win that proves Ghayyaith is the real deal and he looked comfortable in the end. Wouldn't touch him for the Arc.

BoldReason · 05-07-2020 3:45pm

Don't think many can crab Ghaiyyath much anymore. That was a proper proper performance.

akelly02 · 05-07-2020 8:28pm

BoldReason wrote: »

Easy there Kelly. I don't really rate Heffernan myself. Was just commenting on what you said that he might win a Derby.

Maybe I didn't word it right , I meant he might try in a race like the derby compared to the likes of dundalk , bellewstown etc .

Slattsy · 05-07-2020 8:51pm

Did Heffernan stop riding on Peaceful??

05-07-2020 9:38pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Flat to the board yet still won by 5 and a half lengths.

It really is too early to say how good Serpentine is but I can't stand the kind of spoof talk you see every time an upset is pulled off about how this and that would of won had they run. Some people really do sound just as bitter as the commentators on ITV were yesterday.

All credit to the horse that actually won and the jockey that got his tactics spot on. Hopefully the ceiling is sky high for him.

This exactly.

There’s no point judging the horse until he races again. He may or may not be a world beater, let’s just wait and see after his next run. He blew away the competition on the day and did what was asked of him.

I wonder if he wasn’t a Ballydoyle horse would the reactions be the same? Would there be praise all around for the tactics and jockey??

akelly02 · 05-07-2020 9:58pm

Slattsy wrote: »

Did Heffernan stop riding on Peaceful??

Not that I seen .

His ride on ennistymon was clearly to tow love to the 2f marker.

Heffernan made a mid race move from last to 3rd when he realised the 2 pacemakers had gone off way too fast , and ended up hitting the front for a bit before being brushed aside by love.

BoldReason · 05-07-2020 10:47pm

akelly02 wrote: »

Not that I seen .

His ride on ennistymon was clearly to tow love to the 2f marker.

Heffernan made a mid race move from last to 3rd when he realised the 2 pacemakers had gone off way too fast , and ended up hitting the front for a bit before being brushed aside by love.

In fairness it was all a matter love is just a beeter horse than Ennistymon.

Thought it was a poor enough ride on Peaceful myself and the ride on Alpine Star was absolutely chronic. She has taken a lead on every run and Pasquier decided to set a pretty good pace on a horse trying 10f for the first time after showing loads of speed on her last run. Bonkers.

Heffernan also picked up a 22day ban for his ride on Order of Australia. Using the whip 11 times in the straight. He will be quartinijg for 14 of those anyway i guess.

The Tetrarch · 06-07-2020 9:22am

The Racing Post Weekender has a one letter Running Style in front of each horse:
L = Leads; P = Prominent; M = Midfield; H = Held Up

The English Derby field

L: (2) Khalifa Sat; Serpentine
P: (3) Amhran Na Bhfiann; Emissary; Gold Maze
M: (1) Kameko;
H: (10) English King; Highland Chief; Max Vega; Mogul; Mohican Heights; Mythical; Plyedriver; Russian Emperor; Vatican City; Worthily

That is a lot of hold up horses, and almost no midfield horses.

Randy Archer · 06-07-2020 9:29am

11117 wrote: »

This exactly.

There’s no point judging the horse until he races again. He may or may not be a world beater, let’s just wait and see after his next run. He blew away the competition on the day and did what was asked of him.

I wonder if he wasn’t a Ballydoyle horse would the reactions be the same? Would there be praise all around for the tactics and jockey??

Ah they’d be singing . ITV main presenter would be choking with tears blathering out some superlative and Cumani playing captain hindsight (nice to look at but is becoming a bit of a spoofer , love looking at the reaction of Jason Weaver n Johnny Murtagh towards her when they are on )

The English are sickening , be it flat or jumps , and especially if the trainer is chums with their media . Sure they couldn’t shut up whinging at last years Arc when Enable went down fighting in a gallant defence of her title , the better horse had won but ......

Great thing is , one day Aidan will obliterate the Royal Wscot record set by Stoute and Cecil

Any decent Dante or Lingfield winner the English based mob score they start to lose their minds (especially if Aidan had a few in the race )

The other social media comment sections aren’t too kind to the result either. Usual whinging

Epsom Derby & Oaks, Sat 04th July

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