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Incorrect date of fixed notice

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  • 25-06-2020 10:28pm
    #1
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭


    I was caught speeding on 24/05 @9:10 am(Sunday)at 72 km on 50 km area, The Garda told me he will send fine and 3 penalty point, after 1 month I received the notice with wrong date 19/06 Friday 2 am, lesson learned and happy to pay the fine, should I call the Garda to correct the error and may be he change it to 2 points?? Do I have a case if I request cancellation?Or just pay? By no means I don’t want hire solicitor water the the court time
    Thanks for advice if any one had similar experience


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    #2
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭whippet


    if you want to contest it you would have to go to court and take your chances there.

    The 3points is a FPN points allocation - the guard would have no discretion to change it to 2 points.

    As far as I'm aware making small changes to the summons can happen to correct small errors - i'm not sure if the date and time can be changed - but you'd need to go to court to see.


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    #3
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    bilasy wrote: »
    I was caught speeding on 24/05 @9:10 am(Sunday)at 72 km on 50 km area, The Garda told me he will send fine and 3 penalty point, after 1 month I received the notice with wrong date 19/06 Friday 2 am, lesson learned and happy to pay the fine, should I call the Garda to correct the error and may be he change it to 2 points?? Do I have a case if I request cancellation?Or just pay? By no means I don’t want hire solicitor water the the court time
    Thanks for advice if any one had similar experience

    Unless this is for a difference speading offence, and the May one is still in the post.


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    #4
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    The date and time on the FCN isn't a necessary proof, it's merely there to help you remember the incident, which you do. If the case goes to Court, the Guard will simply apply to the Judge to amend the summons to the correct date, and the case will proceed.

    And, as stated above, points are applied by the DTTAS, not by the guards. He'd have no discretion in relation to points, nor does the judge.


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    #5
    Lenar3556
    Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    BaronVon wrote: »
    The date and time on the FCN isn't a necessary proof, it's merely there to help you remember the incident, which you do. If the case goes to Court, the Guard will simply apply to the Judge to amend the summons to the correct date, and the case will proceed.

    And, as stated above, points are applied by the DTTAS, not by the guards. He'd have no discretion in relation to points, nor does the judge.

    Agree, although it depends where the error has arisen and at what point the Garda identify it. If the Garda made incorrect notes in the first instance and provides the wrong date and time in his evidence, the prosecution is likely to fail.

    More likely that his notebook entries are correct however and the alleged offence was simply entered incorrectly on the computer system which is not fatal.


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    #6
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    mod
    court has wide powers to amend summons. Get legal advice


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    #7
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    whippet wrote: »
    if you want to contest it you would have to go to court and take your chances there.

    The 3points is a FPN points allocation - the guard would have no discretion to change it to 2 points.

    As far as I'm aware making small changes to the summons can happen to correct small errors - i'm not sure if the date and time can be changed - but you'd need to go to court to see.

    How about if I apply for cancellation ? In the Garda website guidance it reads: material error: where you wish to contest the speed limit, date or time of the offence - please be advised that minor discrepancy may not invalidate the notice .
    Obviously I don’t want to drag it longer time or go to court, nothing like that . Worst case scenario they will read the letter and decline to change anything and I’ll pay it at the post office


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    #8
    Lenar3556
    Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    bilasy wrote: »
    How about if I apply for cancellation ? In the Garda website guidance it reads: material error: where you wish to contest the speed limit, date or time of the offence - please be advised that minor discrepancy may not invalidate the notice .
    Obviously I don’t want to drag it longer time or go to court, nothing like that . Worst case scenario they will read the letter and decline to change anything and I’ll pay it at the post office

    Certainly worth a try, given your position.
    If you hadn’t been stopped in person by a member of the Garda you may have more success. I would suspect they will decline your request and you are also alerting them to the error which would be unhelpful if it was a case that you were planning to contest in court.


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    #9
    GavMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭GavMan


    Why bother wasting anyone's time with this. Particularly your own. You were speeding, just pay the fine and move with life. What is the material issue with the date and time being wrong. I picked up points for speeding and the insurance company didn't even ding me for it.

    I'm struggling to see that pay off other than save 80 quid and that very unlikely to happen.

    On the other hand, Like another poster said, any chance this is a separate incident and not an error on the first.


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    #10
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    GavMan wrote: »
    Why bother wasting anyone's time with this. Particularly your own. You were speeding, just pay the fine and move with life. What is the material issue with the date and time being wrong. I picked up points for speeding and the insurance company didn't even ding me for it.

    I'm struggling to see that pay off other than save 80 quid and that very unlikely to happen.

    On the other hand, Like another poster said, any chance this is a separate incident and not an error on the first.

    By paying I consent that I was there at 2 am , why would I do that? I’m actually happy if they send another FCN with at least the right date.
    Also correct me if I’m wrong the points will stay in my record for 3 years from the date of issue ( which should’ve been early June , so that’s been delayed by one month now
    And no , it’s not a separate incident, I was home that time
    I emailed them the request already we have 28 day, if they don’t get back to me before my 28 days , I’ll just pay


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    #11
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    If you accept it, you will get 3 penalty points.

    If you go to court and win, you get 0 penalty points.

    If you go to court and lose, you get 5 penalty points.


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    #12
    iomusicdublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 154 ✭✭iomusicdublin


    bilasy wrote: »
    I was caught speeding on 24/05 @9:10 am(Sunday)at 72 km on 50 km area, The Garda told me he will send fine and 3 penalty point, after 1 month I received the notice with wrong date 19/06 Friday 2 am, lesson learned and happy to pay the fine, should I call the Garda to correct the error and may be he change it to 2 points?? Do I have a case if I request cancellation?Or just pay? By no means I don’t want hire solicitor water the the court time
    Thanks for advice if any one had similar experience


    Were you speedng in your car on the 19 June at 2am?


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    #13
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    iomusicdublin wrote: »
    Were you speedng in your car on the 19 June at 2am?

    No, I was home that time


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    #14
    iomusicdublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 154 ✭✭iomusicdublin


    bilasy wrote: »
    No, I was home that time


    then you are not guilty of the offence you have been accused of


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    #15
    Lenar3556
    Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    iomusicdublin wrote: »
    then you are not guilty of the offence you have been accused of

    You have to remember the purpose of an FCN is to avoid the necessity for a court appearance. While there is an error in the FCN, this does not make the whole thing dead in the water. If the OP doesn’t pay, a summons to court will issue. He can raise the fact that the detail was incorrect, the judge will amend the summons to the correct time/date, the OP will plead guilty and he will be convicted. This means more points and recorded conviction.

    There is a possibility he could get it thrown out if the Garda didn’t realise the error and provided the incorrect time and date in his evidence, or at a stretch if the Garda didn’t attend the court. But this is risky. I would notify the FCPO of the error, see if they wish to amend the notice, but pay the damn thing and be done with it.


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    #16
    iomusicdublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 154 ✭✭iomusicdublin


    Lenar3556 wrote: »
    You have to remember the purpose of an FCN is to avoid the necessity for a court appearance. While there is an error in the FCN, this does not make the whole thing dead in the water.


    They are not guilty of the offence.


    It is the incorrect month, the incorrect day, the incorrect time.


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    #17
    Lenar3556
    Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    iomusicdublin wrote: »
    They are not guilty of the offence.


    It is the incorrect month, the incorrect day, the incorrect time.

    The judge will agree with you. Then promptly amend the summons so it shows the correct particulars.


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    #18
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    iomusicdublin wrote: »
    They are not guilty of the offence.


    It is the incorrect month, the incorrect day, the incorrect time.

    I’ve sent a cancellation request citing a material error, I’ll wait and see, frankly I’m happy if they amend the date and time and send me a new FCN, happier if it’s cancelled, but I was never in the said date and time, also I don’t wish to drag it to court.


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    #19
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    iomusicdublin wrote: »
    They are not guilty of the offence.


    It is the incorrect month, the incorrect day, the incorrect time.

    Also it’s the wrong speed , but I didn’t mention as it’s 8 km difference only.


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    #20
    iomusicdublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 154 ✭✭iomusicdublin


    bilasy wrote: »
    I’ve sent a cancellation request citing a material error, I’ll wait and see, frankly I’m happy if they amend the date and time and send me a new FCN, happier if it’s cancelled, but I was never in the said date and time, also I don’t wish to drag it to court.


    Best of luck with that.


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    #21
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    bilasy wrote: »
    Also it’s the wrong speed , but I didn’t mention as it’s 8 km difference only.

    Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet to be awake but how do you know that it's the wrong speed?


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    #22
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    iomusicdublin wrote: »
    They are not guilty of the offence.


    It is the incorrect month, the incorrect day, the incorrect time.

    Doesn't mean he won't be found guilty!


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    #23
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet to be awake but how do you know that it's the wrong speed?


    Because the garda pulled them over and told them what speed they were doing and it seems the FPN speed is different to that.


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    #24
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Because the garda pulled them over and told them what speed they were doing and it seems the FPN speed is different to that.

    Do the Gardai give you a print-out of the speed you were doing there and then when they stop you?


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    #25
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Do the Gardai give you a print-out of the speed you were doing there and then when they stop you?

    No I don't think so, they just slap some sense into you and tell you a notice will be issued to your address.


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    #26
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    No I don't think so, they just slap some sense into you and tell you a notice will be issued to your address.

    So no proof that there is an 8km mistake with the speed.


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    #27
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    So no proof that there is an 8km mistake with the speed.

    They tell you the speed and show you it on the gun so the OP would know if there was a difference but they wouldn't have physical proof.


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    #28
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet to be awake but how do you know that it's the wrong speed?

    The Garda who stopped me said you we’re driving 72km/ hr


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    #29
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,701 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Is the location of the offense the same as the one you were stopped for? All evidence points to you being caught on a separate occasion tbh


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    #30
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Doesn't mean he won't be found guilty!

    I’m sorry guys why will be found guilty? I just want to do the right thing ( pay the penalty in the correct time and date) why can’t they just issue a new FCN ?


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    #31
    bilasy
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭bilasy


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Is the location of the offense the same as the one you were stopped for? All evidence points to you being caught on a separate occasion tbh

    😂 location is right, Drummartin link Rd, I seldom drive through, the one time I did I was caught speeding


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