Inheritance after 2nd marriage

Lainey1975 · 07-07-2020 5:48pm #1

Hi,
Just looking for some advice as I'm pretty clueless when it comes to legal stuff!

Ok so my mum passed away in 2007, 6 years later Dad re-marries. His 2nd wife has her own property and one son, rented out her property and moved in with my Dad in the family home with youngest teenage daughter who soon headed off to college and never moved back home.

Dad has been living abroad with 2nd wife for the past year and a half, with family home rented out and presumably they're living off the rental income. Dad is very tight lipped about such things and is not the type to disclose such info even if pressed. Dad hasn't had the best health of late; major heart issues and a heart attack (his 3rd) in Oct. Obviously this is a worry for the 3 daughters living in Ireland given that he's abroad and obviously we all got quite a fright when he had another 'turn' back in Dec.

The topic of wills came up recently, as he's currently going through the process in relation to his own mother who passed away last year, and he stated 'our family home will go to 2nd wife' and upon her death will go to me, the eldest. This is fine except the 2nd wife is 10 years older than me, there was no provision made for myself and my sisters when our mum died....or at least not that we know of. Dad has a history of being EXTREMELY economical with the truth when it comes to finances and we know my sister was in receipt of a portion of my mum's public service pension but she never received any of it at the time as Dad was presumably using it for her upkeep. During the processing of my granny's estate a lot has come to light with regards to a Power of Attorney my Dad gained and it would appear that funds in accounts held by my granny may have been cleared out. This has led to some serious wrangling between my Dad and his siblings and we want to make sure that myself and my sisters don't have to deal with the same stress were he to pass away.

So that was a bit long-winded but really we are wondering what is the legal position with regards to our family home? Will it automatically go to his 2nd wife? Have we any rights whatsoever, is there anything we can do to ensure we are looked after, as our Mum would've wanted. As 2nd wife is only 10 years older than me and I passed away before her what would happen to the house?

Maybe there's not much we can do but even a bit of clarity would be great.

Thoie · 08-07-2020 11:48am

This might be a good starting point:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/married_couples/marital_status_and_inheritance.html

You seem to have two different questions.

1. On your mother's death, if she had not left a will, her children would have been entitled to one third of the estate. For a fee (about €20/30) you can check with the Probate office to see if there was a will, and what it said. If it turns out she did leave you something that you never received, you'll need a solicitor.

2. If your father makes a will, he doesn't have to leave his children anything. If he doesn't leave you anything, you can challenge that in court, but you'd need to talk to a solicitor about that. If he doesn't make a will, then his children would share a third of the estate, and his new wife would get two thirds.

cnocbui · 08-07-2020 2:30pm

Would I be right in thinking that in such a situation, that once the house passes to a spouse, the are under no compulsion to then pass it on to the children of the deceased, but could pass it on to their own offspring?

Thoie · 08-07-2020 2:47pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking that in such a situation, that once the house passes to a spouse, the are under no compulsion to then pass it on to the children of the deceased, but could pass it on to their own offspring?

I think so, unless the original will said something along the lines of "Mary gets the use of house X for her lifetime, after which it passes to Child1". This is where a solicitor will word things properly to ensure the intention is what's actually written down.

There could be further complications in the OP's scenario, depending on how old the new wife's son was - if the father had adopted him that could change things again.

OP, if your father doesn't want to discuss his own will/wishes, there's not much you can do until such time as he passes away, and see what he's put in the will. At that point you can consult with a solicitor if you think you want to challenge the will.

I would suggest doing the probate search to determine if your mother left a will or not.

Mrs OBumble · 08-07-2020 3:51pm

If the father is living in another country, is irish law relevant? Surely the laws of the country he is now living in should apply?

cnocbui · 08-07-2020 4:08pm

As someone who is dealing with an Irish property, foreign death messy inheritance issue, it has been my experience that Irish law prevails, unfortunately.

Peregrinus · 09-07-2020 3:30am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If the father is living in another country, is irish law relevant? Surely the laws of the country he is now living in should apply?

In general, Irish law applies to determine how land (including houses on land, obviously) in Ireland passes on the death of the owner. It makes no difference where the owner lives (or dies). We couldn't have, e.g., the Russian parliament passing laws about who is entitled to Irish land.

I'm pretty sure a similar rule applies in nearly every country.

3DataModem · 09-07-2020 7:00am

Thoie wrote: »

1. On your mother's death, if she had not left a will, her children would have been entitled to one third of the estate.

Just a clarification for those who may not understand what "estate" means here... it generally does not include shared assets so in this case would most likely exclude the family home (i.e. the home is not inherited as it was jointly owned by the couple so doesn't really 'change hands').

3DataModem · 09-07-2020 7:03am

Lainey1975 wrote: »

Hi,
'our family home will go to 2nd wife' and upon her death will go to me, the eldest.

As a poster above said, this is not something that is executable in law in Ireland. The house can be 'usable' by the 2nd wife and then pass on to the child, but you generally cannot compel people to will property they own to someone else. Once the house title goes to the 2nd wife, it's hers forever.

Thoie · 09-07-2020 10:25am

3DataModem wrote: »

As a poster above said, this is not something that is executable in law in Ireland. The house can be 'usable' by the 2nd wife and then pass on to the child, but you generally cannot compel people to will property they own to someone else. Once the house title goes to the 2nd wife, it's hers forever.

Apologies for veering off topic, but if a house is left to my use for my lifetime, and then is being passed to someone else, I presume my "use" doesn't include the ability to sell it? What about making improvements/adding an extension, etc? Would all those things need permission from the eventual owner?

Peregrinus · 09-07-2020 11:08am

Thoie wrote: »

Apologies for veering off topic, but if a house is left to my use for my lifetime, and then is being passed to someone else, I presume my "use" doesn't include the ability to sell it?

Correct. You could possibly sell somebody your interest in it - i.e. you could sell him the right to live in for the rest of your life (not the rest of his life) - unless the instrument which created your interest in the house specified that the interest was not transferrrable.

A lifetime right of residence in a home is generally not transferrable. A life estate in property, which is a different thing, generally is tranferrable in principle. But in practice very few people would be interested in buying it.

Thoie wrote: »

What about making improvements/adding an extension, etc? Would all those things need permission from the eventual owner?

Any improvements you make to the property will accrue to the benefit of the next owner, which is generous of you. That's why people with only a life interest in property generally don't invest in it. To be honest, they often don't maintain it very well, and it tends to deteriorate. In theory they are liable to the next owner for not keeping the property in good condition; in practice this is hard to enforce, since by the time they come into possession they person they have a claim against is dead.

3DataModem · 09-07-2020 1:02pm

I'll add one final comment. Based on what you have said OP, it suggests to me that your dad is not telling you the truth when they say "it goes to 2nd wife then to you".

I've seen this lie told in families before to appease certain family members. In your case where the property is not even being lived in by the "minder" it doesn't make sense. If you asked him to write it down, I wonder what he would do. This alone could be cause to have his will set aside if indeed it turns out that it is actually left lock stock and barrel to the 2nd wife.

Anyway, good luck. Always remember it's your dad's gaff.

mick987 · 09-07-2020 1:09pm

Sorry can't give you any legal advice

But if I was you I would expect to get nothing at least that way you will not be disappointed and if you do get something it will be a bonus

Inheritance after 2nd marriage

Comments