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Solicitor legal fees personal injury

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  • 07-07-2020 2:22am
    #1
    neil_peart
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭


    Hi guys,
    I just got a bill from my solicitor for €3400 (all inclusive) for a personal injury claim that got settled through piab. Settlement was €17k plus expenses.
    I was just wondering does this sound excessive or fair?
    Solicitor was very vague from the start and when I said would it be less than 20,% she said yes.
    They she goes the bill is 20% as agreed (which I know she can't do)
    Regardless of this is the 3400 excessive for a case that lasted a year and got settled through piab?

    Thanks


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    #2
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭con747


    A friend of mine is an injury claims solicitor and charges 10% for most straight forward cases. I'm sure some cases will need more work but I think 20% is taking the proverbial.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #3
    neil_peart
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭neil_peart


    con747 wrote: »
    A friend of mine is an injury claims solicitor and charges 10% for most straight forward cases. I'm sure some cases will need more work but I think 20% is taking the proverbial.

    Thanks Con. I assume nsome are more expensive than others, my biggest gripe was when I asked how much fees were I didn't get a straight answer. Got the bill and was 2750 plus vat (3400)

    Do.i have a leg to stand on? They were originally looking for more! €3750 and told them I am not paying a penny over 20 %. Literally made up the fees as they went along.

    Offer from insurance came in at 7k last sept and there fee was 2500 at that point. Very little work done since a few follow up mails to piab yet an increase to 3400.

    I know you can complain to law society but is there any point? But I don't want the piss taking out of me equally if the fee is out of this world.


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    #4
    chops018
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭chops018


    Were you given a section 68 letter, or the newer section 150 letter, when you first engaged the firm? This sets out how the fees will be calculated. Technically, Solicitors cannot charge a percentage of claims but rather they have to charge as per a representation of their work done. Presumably the 20% point was just talked about and the Solicitor then used this as the mark for the professional fee. They will try get the highest fee possible.

    You can also ask them for an itemised bill and a time sheet of the work that they done. Most Solicitors charge circa €300 per hour. Professional fee of €2,750 is circa 9 hours work done on your file of professional time. That would be reasonable enough in my opinion, however, agreed, probably a little on the higher side for a settlement of €17,000. Try haggle them down a few hundred.


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    #5
    neil_peart
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭neil_peart


    chops018 wrote: »
    Were you given a section 68 letter, or the newer section 150 letter, when you first engaged the firm? This sets out how the fees will be calculated. Technically, Solicitors cannot charge a percentage of claims but rather they have to charge as per a representation of their work done. Presumably the 20% point was just talked about and the Solicitor then used this as the mark for the professional fee. They will try get the highest fee possible.

    You can also ask them for an itemised bill and a time sheet of the work that they done. Most Solicitors charge circa €300 per hour. Professional fee of €2,750 is circa 9 hours work done on your file of professional time. That would be reasonable enough in my opinion, however, agreed, probably a little on the higher side for a settlement of €17,000. Try haggle them down a few hundred.


    Thanks for the feedback. I actually had to haggle a few hundred off to get down to that.
    I wasn't given any section 68 letter or 150 letter at the start of even to this day.
    Not sure if the girl looking after it is a solicitor or a legal exec but I'm sure the solicitors firm probably bill you the same no doubt circa 300 per hour.

    I don't mind paying it once I know I'm not being done or taking to the cleaners with a ridiculous fee as happy enough with Piabs figure. They were good to deal with in terms of response to queries etc however I did feel they hadn't a clue at times telling me that the most they wreckoned it's worth was 10k when piab came back with 17k recommended

    Fee was plucked out of the sky and that's what doesn't sit well with me so want to make sure it's reasonable.
    Time lines of claim process from engagement with solicitor to piab finding was 1year


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    #6
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Your solicitor will no doubt produce a schedule showing the amount of hours they worked on your case, times an hourly rate, carry the one, add outlays, phone calls, etc etc... and come to a total of €3400.

    So, what's the problem?


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    #7
    neil_peart
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭neil_peart


    antix80 wrote: »
    Your solicitor will no doubt produce a schedule showing the amount of hours they worked on your case, times an hourly rate, carry the one, add outlays, phone calls, etc etc... and come to a total of €3400.

    So, what's the problem?

    That's the thing there is no breakdown of hours etc. just solicitor fees, circa €2712 + Vat + €45 piab application fee
    Total €3,400

    That's what my query was to see if this is a fair price/ fee to pay.


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    #8
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    antix80 wrote: »
    Your solicitor will no doubt produce a schedule showing the amount of hours they worked on your case, times an hourly rate, carry the one, add outlays, phone calls, etc etc... and come to a total of €3400.

    So, what's the problem?

    I think you've just outlined the problem. There is no way to verify hours worked


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    #9
    neil_peart
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭neil_peart


    Eggs For Dinner wrote: »
    I think you've just outlined the problem. There is no way to verify hours worked

    Thanks guys.

    The main question was is the fee about right for the service provided and my take from the comments here in large is that it probably is about right.


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    #10
    Kaylami
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Kaylami


    I just settled a case myself for nearly the same amount and fees where the exact same.

    It matched the outline they have given me at the very start of the procedure.


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    #11
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    There is an obligation to set out the proposed fee structure per section 150 of the Legal Services Regulation Act 2015.

    It's not a light duty. You are entitled to seek clarification of the notice and same must be provided.

    It's also impermissible to deduct fees from an amount payable to the client in damages.

    A sort of smoke and mirrors approach really sticks in the craw tbh.


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    #12
    neil_peart
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭neil_peart


    Kaylami wrote: »
    I just settled a case myself for nearly the same amount and fees where the exact same.

    It matched the outline they have given me at the very start of the procedure.

    Thanks Kaylami this gives me some idea that fees are inline with market rate. Was yours settled through PIAB?
    At least you were given an idea of outlays from the start by your solicitor


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    #13
    neil_peart
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭neil_peart


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    There is an obligation to set out the proposed fee structure per section 150 of the Legal Services Regulation Act 2015.

    It's not a light duty. You are entitled to seek clarification of the notice and same must be provided.

    It's also impermissible to deduct fees from an amount payable to the client in damages.

    A sort of smoke and mirrors approach really sticks in the craw tbh.


    100% agree this is what has stuck in my craw too tbh. I asked clearly at the outset and was given wishy washy reply and no section 150 letter was ever provided to me, only finding out about this now.
    Any point in asking for it at this point?


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    #14
    Kaylami
    Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Kaylami


    neil_peart wrote: »
    Thanks Kaylami this gives me some idea that fees are inline with market rate. Was yours settled through PIAB?
    At least you were given an idea of outlays from the start by your solicitor

    No they settled before it got to that but overseas insurer so took nearly 9 months.

    My solicitor gave me a full breakdown of the fees and it included consultants fees etc as well as a breakdown of how the hours were spent.


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    #15
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    neil_peart wrote: »
    100% agree this is what has stuck in my craw too tbh. I asked clearly at the outset and was given wishy washy reply and no section 150 letter was ever provided to me, only finding out about this now.
    Any point in asking for it at this point?

    Well, the Act requires that the section 150 notice is given prior to a legal practitioner commencing work. If it isn't, in the even of a dispute, the Cost Adjudicator can refuse to confirm the amount sought in fees by a legal practitioner but then there's a grey area because the CA has the discretion to decide that if such refusal results in an injustice between the parties, they can confirm it. The solicitor also has an onerous obligation to provide an itemised bill of costs, which is the point you're at now.

    Long before it gets to the CA, however, there are things you can consider like do I have the stomach for a fight or will I just accept what the solicitor wants to avoid it? If you want to argue the case, you can say to the solicitor that they didn't give you a section 150 notice, fees weren't agreed in advance, and that you are aware it is not permissible to charge fees as a percentage of the award.

    The likelihood is there will be pushback from the solicitor, they will probably say you agreed to fees at 20%, they will probably refuse to pay over your damages check until the fees are paid or something like that. They will say you agreed to fees at 20%. You can at that stage if you so wish point to the clear provision of section 149 that say "(2) A legal practitioner shall not, without the prior written agreement of his or her client, deduct or appropriate any amount in respect of legal costs from the amount of any damages or moneys that become payable to the client in respect of legal services that the legal practitioner provided to the client."

    The caveat that I have is that these are just tactics to put pressure on the solicitor to reduce their fee where they should have done things differently. It might delay you getting your damages. It might not get you anywhere on the fees point if they refuse to budge. They may think you are bluffing about costs adjudication. You probably are bluffing about costs adjudicating.

    I think what I would do personally is say all of the above, tell them to take their fees out of the award if it means you can get your money and then make a complaint to the LSRA. But I like a row more than most people.

    Or of course, as I have said a few times now, you can just agree to the fees now, avoid any hassle and have your money within days. Totally your choice.


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