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Profit in Summer Grazing

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Comments

  • #102
    cute geoge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    Anto_Meath wrote: »
    Agent wouldn't be something I could go for, you are better off buying and selling your own cattle in my opinion. Was talking to a lad last night in the mart who buys and sells cattle for people and he would be sound enough. He had 30 cattle in the mart yesterday between buying and selling for different people plus 6 for himself. He said he made more on the 30 cattle (€10 for buying / selling & €10 for hauling) than he did on his own 6 and I would safely say he was telling the truth.

    Is not that the crux of the problem ,everyone get their cut and every cost has increased yet when the finish price has dropped every one still has to get their full cut!!!
    I am a dairy man but it will be hard not to blame dry stock men for letting calves after them next year


  • #103
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    cute geoge wrote: »
    Is not that the crux of the problem ,everyone get their cut and every cost has increased yet when the finish price has dropped every one still has to get their full cut!!!
    I am a dairy man but it will be hard not to blame dry stock men for letting calves after them next year
    You are correct, like each animal this agent handles for his customers has an additional cost of €30 over anything I would buy for myself (€5 each way would cover my transport costs to the mart). There are plenty of marts on at night or on a Saturday so people should be able to buy the cattle they want at a time that suits them.
    I also rear some sucks and if possible I would prefer to buy direct from the Farmer as that way it keeps scours & chills to a minimum. Calves tend to pick up all sorts of bugs when they spend a day at the mart.


  • #104
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Anto_Meath wrote: »
    Agent wouldn't be something I could go for, you are better off buying and selling your own cattle in my opinion. Was talking to a lad last night in the mart who buys and sells cattle for people and he would be sound enough. He had 30 cattle in the mart yesterday between buying and selling for different people plus 6 for himself. He said he made more on the 30 cattle (€10 for buying / selling & €10 for hauling) than he did on his own 6 and I would safely say he was telling the truth.

    He must be a fairly useless agent if he cannot pick up value for himself. If as you say he has 20/head on 30 cattle which is 600 euro that is 100/head on 6 cattle. Not sure how long he has them but if he cannot buy value for himself he cannot buy value for you.

    My big issues with agents buying cattle is that first they hold onto any value themselves. Then they dump the expensive cattle they have to buy as they are bidding against the lads up above. As well you have them buying cattle off belonging to other agents/dealer in the mart. You then have to pay 10/ head as well as transport and commission to the mart.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #105
    Albert Johnson
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Albert Johnson


    Anto_Meath wrote: »
    You are correct, like each animal this agent handles for his customers has an additional cost of €30 over anything I would buy for myself (€5 each way would cover my transport costs to the mart). There are plenty of marts on at night or on a Saturday so people should be able to buy the cattle they want at a time that suits them.
    I also rear some sucks and if possible I would prefer to buy direct from the Farmer as that way it keeps scours & chills to a minimum. Calves tend to pick up all sorts of bugs when they spend a day at the mart.

    A lot of lads wouldn't belittle themselves to standing around the ring from what I can see and would much prefer to pay a go between to do there business. An uncle of my own went to the mart for about 3 hours last week with his brother in law and never stopped complaining about it for 2 days before and afterwards. Those sort of fellas would much rather part with a fee per head bought or sold and do whatever else they see fit for the day. Then most other younger lads have families and full time jobs with no time to do there own business and are again happy to pay someone who has the time and interest.


  • #106
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭kk.man


    I am hearing a good few leases with were big money are being negotiated down during their term. All these diary ppl are getting the jitters or are in the early stages of trouble.


  • #107
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    kk.man wrote: »
    I am hearing a good few leases with were big money are being negotiated down during their term. All these diary ppl are getting the jitters or are in the early stages of trouble.

    Maybe, there was some high money paid in some cases... But people love to talk and the worse the talk the more they love it...


  • #108
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    Maybe, there was some high money paid in some cases... But people love to talk and the worse the talk the more they love it...
    That maybe true but the last guy I was chatting to was saying apart from renageing on the deal, the big issue is with the revenue. There is no clause to reduce the tax payment as its a binding agreement.


  • #109
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,925 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    ...... As well you have them buying cattle off belonging to other agents/dealer in the mart. You then have to pay 10/ head as well as transport and commission to the mart.

    That's exactly why I wouldn't buy from a dealer. Jeez, if they told me it was raining, I'd still have to look out the window to see for myself.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #110
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    kk.man wrote: »
    That maybe true but the last guy I was chatting to was saying apart from renageing on the deal, the big issue is with the revenue. There is no clause to reduce the tax payment as its a binding agreement.

    Tax has to be paid even if farmer renting fails to make payments

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #111
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Tax has to be paid even if farmer renting fails to make payments

    I was shocked at that.. Very unfair.


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  • #112
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    kk.man wrote: »
    I was shocked at that.. Very unfair.

    It is and it isn’t...

    Long term leases are now tax free... you have to pay stamp at the start and then usc I think...

    Or, the farmer could lease it out on a yearly basis, but pay tax.

    You chose either one or the other...


  • #113
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    kk.man wrote: »
    I was shocked at that.. Very unfair.

    The tax relief is on a five year or longer lease. As well there are different limits depending on length of lease.

    The other option would be for owner to become responsible for the tax on the previous years as lease did not last full length.

    In general it's the lessor of two evils

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #114
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Yesterday I was talking to two lads. The first farmer bought yearlings in the late spring and sold them two weeks ago. They put on 170 kgs and went from 415 to 585 kgs . The other lad had a mixture of over and underage bullocks and he slaughtered them last week.. after mart fees and commission both systems left a gross margin of less than 100/head.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #115
    kk.man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Yesterday I was talking to two lads. The first farmer bought yearlings in the late spring and sold them two weeks ago. They put on 170 kgs and went from 415 to 585 kgs . The other lad had a mixture of over and underage bullocks and he slaughtered them last week.. after mart fees and commission both systems left a gross margin of less than 100/head.

    Buying store cattle to return to the store ring is a non runner in any given year. the second farmer you mention would probably have made a net profit had cattle base been 3.70 ish instead of the 3.45 atm. this year its very hard to make a margin in any system.


  • #116
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Yesterday I was talking to two lads. The first farmer bought yearlings in the late spring and sold them two weeks ago. They put on 170 kgs and went from 415 to 585 kgs . The other lad had a mixture of over and underage bullocks and he slaughtered them last week.. after mart fees and commission both systems left a gross margin of less than 100/head.

    It's amazing he didn't loose a hundred per head if he bought in the spring regardless of weight gain

    Cousin of mine ( with a job so hobby is cattle) buys in spring and offloads in autumn, bloodbath this year for him


  • #117
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Yesterday I was talking to two lads. The first farmer bought yearlings in the late spring and sold them two weeks ago. They put on 170 kgs and went from 415 to 585 kgs . The other lad had a mixture of over and underage bullocks and he slaughtered them last week.. after mart fees and commission both systems left a gross margin of less than 100/head.

    Excellent so long as not dipping into payments. And that a bad year. Plus less expenses to subtract and less time


  • #118
    Albert Johnson
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Albert Johnson


    Muckit wrote: »
    Excellent so long as not dipping into payments. And that a bad year. Plus less expenses to subtract and less time

    My sentiment exactly, this year has been a right off as regards store prices and yet a low labour input summer system can still remain in the black, perhaps I'm missing something but I'd consider that happy days. As KK man said above buying store's to go back to the ring with is a tricky business at any time and especially this year. Unless you have great land and the potential to put serious weight on stock off grass than summer grazing isn't a highly profitable system imo and is only medium term dealing. However if I could have the advantages of only being a fair weather farmer and still clear the best part of €100 a head after costs then I'd be very happy being honest.

    Summer grazing in my eyes is as much about the lifestyle advantages as the actual financial benefits. The worst and most labour intensive months are now your own to do as you please and this is a massive saving on both man and wallet. You have the best months of the year to arse about doing the few jobs to pass the longer evenings and hammer everything at the first sign of hardship in the back end. The English talk about "dog and stick farmer's" but replace Fido with a pair of boots and we're basically a summer grazer. If the stock clear themselves and something reasonable alongside it and we bank the GLAS, BPS ect I don't honestly see how the average system could be improved upon without loosing some of it's initial low input appeal. The law of diminishing returns is bound to come into play at some point and there is a sweet spot of maximizing the gains but minimizing the losses and I'm not talking solely about finance's.


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