Irishmen who fought for the British Empire in WW1 fought for 'European freedom'

who the fug wrote: »

Killing home rule by kindness, was a bitch

Can we have a bit more thought out and considered posts in this thread/forum in future please? This sort of thing borders on spam.

who the fug wrote: »

The British government was pumping money into the Ireland from 1890 onwards, and there was very little repression in Ireland, so what was Britain doing to Little Catholic Ireland in 1914 that makes it as bad as what was going on in Belgium

Clearly you don't understand the point that was being made so. Morlar was referring to British recruitment in Ireland during WWI which concentrated heavily on atrocities/attacks on Belgium, another small Catholic country which Ireland had a lot of connections to. Morlar is also no doubt referencing repressive measures introduced as a result of the war, such as DORA, and also the disproportionate cost of the war burdened on Ireland, which was used as counter propaganda by republicans.

So I made a sarky comment on what was posted

Yes I know. Less of them please.

It is not as simple as you make out.

The Land League and the question of land ownership operated independently to the Irish Independence Party for a long time and it does seem that they were often two seperate and distinct issues. There is some crossover.

You were not talking about a unified concensus movement. The political IIP became more interested in the Land Question with the extention of the franchise. Remember that at this time only 32 % of males had the vote and in 1900 the numbers of true democracies worldwide was Zero. So democracy was in its infancy too.

Also, at that time the Land War was very much settled unless you are talking about the Ranch War 1906 09 -which was in the west of Ireland and concerned commercial cattle farms vs tillage. Tillage being labour intensive but precarious owing to Irish Weather. The Ranch Wars often concerned Irish Catholic owners too.

Job creation - Land League style.

On specifics, the Phoenix Park Murders and the John O'Connell Curtain murder would be more pivotal. The latter moreso as he was a tenant farmer who was murdered for his gun in the 1880's and his family were forced to emigrate as they were boycotted as they had named his murdererers. In the former assassination the Invincibles were a splinter group of the IRB.

So class was important and not all sectors of society shared the same aspirations. Michael Collins came from a relatively prosperous farming family and he emigrated as did the Protestant Sam Maguire -a neighbour of his.

I mean the Carriginimma/.Muskerry Whiteboy executions in West Cork in 1822 were stuck in popular culture as a more relevant event-especially with the West Cork Brigade- and even then when you read the history of the case the local protestants & landlords were against some of the executions. The headson spikes in Macroom (black balls) is mentioned by Peader O'Laoighaire in "Mo Sceal Fein".

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67179621&postcount=47

The fate of Carey the Invincibles leader who "gave up" his colleagues is mentioned the "Monto" the Dubliners song. However, the treatment of John O'Connell Curtains family and their Boycott and subsequent emigration is something that does nobody any credit.

I don't think you can equate it in terms of modern day politics. The Home Rule Party were definately middle class and some of their aims were economic and they wanted their economic policies for Ireland adopted.

To give a specific example. Just take the Irish Cooperative Movement which grew out of the new environment.

You also had the Irish Cooperative movement which has been hugely significant in the development of the Irish Food and Dairy industry which was contemporaneous with this

Horace Plunkett set up the first co-operative creamery in 1889. Plunkett felt that if farmers were to prosper they needed to combine together in business organisations. Together with RA Andersen, the Reverend Tom Finlay SJ and Lord Monteagle and some other friends, Plunkett began to promote the setting up of co-operative creameries and co-operative agricultural societies.

Sir Horace Plunkett, 1854- 1932

By 1894 there were 33 co-operatives established and Plunkett recognised the need to establish his work on a more formal basis. On April 18th, 1894, the inaugural meeting of the Irish Agricultural Organisation Society- known as IAOS- was held. This name would remain until 1979, when it was changed to ICOS.

IAOS was designed to help farmers organise every branch of their industry co-operatively and represent them on large questions through a central body.
Arising from Plunkett’s efforts to encourage the government to provide the necessary educational and technical assistance, a Recess Committee was convened that recommended the setting up of a Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction. This gave rise to the setting up of the Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction in 1899, with Plunkett as its first Vice-President and Chief Executive.
The numbers of co-operatives in Ireland grew to 1,114 by 1920. The creameries and agriculture societies were the first to be established, but there were closely followed by the setting up of Agricultural Credit Co-operatives.

http://www.icos.ie/content/content.asp?section_id=278

Take Kerry Co-op largely born out of this and probably would not have happened at all if you had to wait for political thinking on economics to catch up.

A major catalyst for growth was that in needed replacement activities as a result of EC supported programmes to eradicate TB etc

However in 1979 everything changed for Kerry Co-op when the county was chosen as a pilot area for a bovine disease eradication scheme. Allied to this, milk production was further depressed due to wet summer weather in 1979 and in 1980, which meant that Kerry lost almost 20% of its milk supply. This was highly significant in that it happened at a time when the Co-op was in the course of completing a €18 million capital expenditure programme at the NKMP plant in Listowel.

The Group has grown organically and through a series of strategic acquisitions in its relatively short history, from the commissioning of its first dairy and ingredients plant in Listowel, Ireland in 1972, and has achieved sustained profitable growth with current annualised sales of approximately €4.5 billion.
Headquartered in Tralee, Ireland, the Group employs over 20,000 people throughout its manufacturing, sales, technology and application centres across Europe, North America, South America, Australia, New Zealand and Asian Markets.
We supply over 15,000 food, food ingredients and flavour products to customers in more than 140 countries worldwide. We have established manufacturing facilities in 20 different countries and international sales offices in 20 other countries across the globe.
Launched as a public company in 1986, Kerry Group plc is listed on the Dublin and London Stock Markets and has a current market capitalisation in excess of €3.5 billion.

http://www.kerrygroup.com/page.asp?pid=80

So to say it was unified is an over simplification. There were some sectors who welcomed the economic policies and worked them and Plunketts Co-op Model has been used worldwide by developing economies.

Lesser thinkers have been Nobel Laureates and he has affected the lives of so many people. Maybe we should have a Horace Plunkett Day as a National Holiday as he truly was a giant in the field of Agricultural Economics. He was probably Irelands Karl Marx.