The Americanization of spelling and terminology

riclad · 02-07-2020 11:08pm

There's no shopping malls in Ireland, we have shopping centres, as the cliche goes England and America are separated by a common language. I hope we stay as we are, we speak English in a different way than America and the UK,
If there was an Irish drama made using a lot Dublin slang
I don't think many English people would understand it eg I. Ll bring my moth to your gaff
Of course many Web slang words are used in Ireland eg lol and hashtag
I think some UK drama, s have subtitles on American TV if they feature regional accents
Eg brummie, Scottish etc
There's no elevators in Ireland we use lifts.

riclad · 02-07-2020 11:16pm

I listen to a lot of podcasts, us podcasters seem to only use 2 words, cool, awesome for anything
they like. I think the standard of English and grammar in American schools must be quite low
Can you afford to go to college. Have you some money, great, welcome,
In Ireland you need do fairly well in the leaving cert to get the points to go to university.

riclad · 02-07-2020 11:18pm

It seems theres more American slang and phrases
being used in Ireland because most of the apps
and major social media websites are based in America
there's no popular major app or social media service apart from Spotify that is based in Europe

FVP3 · 02-07-2020 11:24pm

These are minor issues. The use of American left and right rhetoric ( libtard, terf, white privilege etc. etc. etc. ) is poisonous to civility and discourse.

Daisy03 · 02-07-2020 11:27pm

Wibbs wrote: »

It might be, though I never heard it on my many visits to Cork as a kid, but let's say it is/was, it most certainly wasn't in the rest of the country. Ma, mammy, mam, or mum for the posher kids were. When this has come up before I've laid down a challenge for anyone to find any video or film or even written document on youtube or RTE or wherever where any Irish person refers to their mother as "Mom" before the mid 1990's. Good luck with that.

I knew an American lass when I was in my late teens in the 80s and she of course used to use American words and pronunciations and she would get playfully teased about them from time to time and one of them was "Mom". "Store" was another. It was the first time I learned that "shop" in the US meant workshop, not well, a shop. Though Americans also go shopping in stores, which was about the point where the mainspring in my brain let go.

Mom among other things like store are almost entirely a mid Atlantic influence that has spread in the last 20 years, just like the accent to be heard on many a younger Irish person, a certain type among suburban young women tend to affect it the most and have the most pronounced and nasally with a rising tone at the end type. I even noticed this difference in friend's kids. Their daughters are much more mid Atlantic than their sons.

TV has been blamed on it. I'm not so sure. As a kid growing up in Dublin like my peers we had the "piped TV" so got the UK stations and along with RTE showed many American TV series and nobody had the mid Atlantic accent. I grew up from from a toddler onwards on Sesame Street on RTE and yet... Though I did learn some Spanish(I think we got the LA version?). Indeed the accent was derided as daft and usually only present in wedding DJs and the like.

Store I can understand more as online shopping, much of it US or US English based took over. Spelling where zeds(not Zee ) are swapped for S down to the aforementioned auto spellchecks. And since few enough seem to change the standard ringtones on their phones that's not such a surprise.

Mom is 100% a Cork thing and it is not recent. You may have visited Cork but if you didnt live here how are you to know what we call our Mothers! I was born in the 80's and have always called my mother Mom as do all my friends and colleagues except for a small few who would come from rural areas who call their Mom either Mam or Mammy.

The area I come from is now considered part of the suburbs of Cork but back in the 80s was considered a country village.

Das Reich · 02-07-2020 11:30pm

Hispanic and latino are the worst. A word for the Castillan side of Iberia and another for a Italo-Celtic tribe that migrated from Central Europe to Latium are used to describe people with Amerindian ancestry. Was told few times by North Americans that I don't look hispanic or latino despite being 89% South European according to 23andme, with the closest modern genetic group to me being Northern Italians.

FVP3 · 02-07-2020 11:58pm

Das Reich wrote: »

Hispanic and latino are the worst. A word for the Castillan side of Iberia and another for a Italo-Celtic tribe that migrated from Central Europe to Latium are used to describe people with Amerindian ancestry. Was told few times by North Americans that I don't look hispanic or latino despite being 89% South European according to 23andme, with the closest modern genetic group to me being Northern Italians.

Well South Americans arent fully Amerindian but your point is well taken.

Both Hispanic and Latino are moronic terms for ethnicity. South and central America are diverse ethnically. Culturally there is a spanish influence of course.

As for latino as a identifier, it excludes Italians. I kid you not.

riclad · 03-07-2020 12:06am

If I heard an Irish person say my mom, I'd assume they were joking.
Irish people say ma or my mother or maybe mam.
I never heard an Irish person say have you got a buck, or I have to go and get gas for my car.

Quantum Erasure · 03-07-2020 1:51am

'literally' literally means figuratively now....

FVP3 · 03-07-2020 9:19am

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

'literally' literally means figuratively now....

1 Not American
2 Been like that for centuries.

FVP3 · 03-07-2020 9:25am

riclad wrote: »

If I heard an Irish person say my mom, I'd assume they were joking.
Irish people say ma or my mother or maybe mam.
.

Or Mum, or Mom.

I dont live in Kerry or visit that much but the discussion on this is always amazing.

Dub: Irish people don't say Mom.
Kerryfolk: We do. Its an anglicization of the munster Irish pronunciation of mham
Dub: you don't
Kerryfolk: We do though. We would know.
Dub: Naw
Kerryfolk: WE WOULD KNOW!
Dub:Nope
Kerryfolk: WE DO!
Dub: lies

I mean I had no idea until some people on here said it, and I cant see why they would lie.

Wibbs · 03-07-2020 9:43am

Daisy03 wrote: »

Mom is 100% a Cork thing and it is not recent. You may have visited Cork but if you didnt live here how are you to know what we call our Mothers!

Man people get really defensive over this one in particular.

I was born in the 80's and have always called my mother Mom as do all my friends and colleagues except for a small few who would come from rural areas who call their Mom either Mam or Mammy.

So it's now narrowed down to a particular part of Cork county, specifically suburban or near suburban Cork city(though when this has come up before others have said it was rural not urban)? Actually that wouldn't altogether surprise me as Ireland has a lot of local accents and pronunciations. I can think of four Dublin ones off the top of my head and Two Cork.

However, maybe you missed this part:

but let's say it is/was[a Cork thing], it most certainly wasn't in the rest of the country. Ma, mammy, mam, or mum for the posher kids were.

That's why I followed it with this:

When this has come up before I've laid down a challenge for anyone to find any video or film or even written document on youtube or RTE or wherever where any Irish person refers to their mother as "Mom" before the mid 1990's. Good luck with that.

Now it's everywhere, pretty much a complete swap out and it didn't come from a small enough non rural group of Corkonians. It's almost certainly from American media and spread from there. Just like the mid Atlantic twang found on many voices.

Gregor Samsa · 03-07-2020 10:31am

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

So, like, there I was waiting in line in the parking lot with my shopping cart to enter the grocery store in the shopping mall. I was parked on the top floor so I had to get the elevator to the first floor with the cart.

In the US, a "parking lot" is usually just outdoor ground level. A "parking garage" is what they call a multi-story carpark, although in Minnesota they call them "parking ramps". I use to get very confused when my Minneapolis colleagues told me they were building a "ramp" outside the company HQ. I had visions of cars taking off stunt-style.

whisky_galore · 03-07-2020 11:39am

riffmongous wrote: »

Something I used to get annoyed by.. but now it's like **** it, what difference does it really make if one language that was forced on Ireland in the past it supplanted by another.

Which one? The one I was forced to learn at school that I don't use?

Gregor Samsa · 03-07-2020 11:51am

riclad wrote: »

I listen to a lot of podcasts, us podcasters seem to only use 2 words, cool, awesome for anything
they like. I think the standard of English and grammar in American schools must be quite low
Can you afford to go to college. Have you some money, great, welcome,
In Ireland you need do fairly well in the leaving cert to get the points to go to university.

The way your posts are formatted with the line breaks, I assumed they were poems or verse. I've been reading them over and over looking for the metre or rhyme!

dotsman · 03-07-2020 12:15pm

Guys, it is pretty simple. For as far back as anybody can remember:

Mom- for normal/Munster people.
Ma - for Dublin skangers
Mam/Mammy - for boggers
Mum/Mummy - for prods or people with illusions (especially if said with posh pre-pubescent english boy accent)

Wibbs · 03-07-2020 12:24pm

dotsman wrote: »

Guys, it is pretty simple. For as far back as anybody can remember:

Mom- for normal/Munster people.

A) there's feck all normal to be found among Munster people.

and

again find any video or film or even written document on youtube or RTE or wherever where any Irish person refers to their mother as "Mom" before the mid 1990's.

Mum/Mummy - for prods or people with allusions (especially if said with posh pre-pubescent english boy accent)

Though if one has illusions of grandeur one is best not to write it as allusions.

dotsman · 03-07-2020 12:37pm

Wibbs wrote: »

A) there's feck all normal to be found among Munster people. and again find any video or film or even written document on youtube or RTE or wherever where any Irish person refers to their mother as "Mom" before the mid 1990's.

But I would imagine there would be no video/document from pre mid-90's for any of them. Mom is an informal term. Prior to mobile phones, I can't think of many scenarios where a person would be recorded saying or where a person would write the word "mom/ma/mam/mum" etc, other than maybe, a birthday card?

Wibbs wrote: »

Though if one has illusions of grandeur one is best not to write it as allusions.

I'll put that one down to the hangover I'm currently experiencing

Wibbs · 03-07-2020 1:00pm

Hangovers will do that alright.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! · 03-07-2020 4:29pm

Any of my Facebook friends who post about the 4th of July will be unfriended. I only have 60 friends anyway :pac:

I see they are arranging 4th July fireworks to celebrate frontline workers. Did they choose that day because it's Saturday or because they are trying to emulate that poxy day here.

Hamsterchops · 03-07-2020 5:01pm

Down with Movie Theatres, Shopping Malls, gas, trash, candy, potato chips (crisps), math, & elevators...

Save our Cinemas, Shopping centres, petrol, rubbish, sweets, crisps, maths, & lifts.

....and keep our fannys where they've always been, at the front. Americans sit on their fanny

764dak · 03-07-2020 11:07pm

Das Reich wrote: »

Hispanic and latino are the worst. A word for the Castillan side of Iberia and another for a Italo-Celtic tribe that migrated from Central Europe to Latium are used to describe people with Amerindian ancestry. Was told few times by North Americans that I don't look hispanic or latino despite being 89% South European according to 23andme, with the closest modern genetic group to me being Northern Italians.

FVP3 wrote: »

Well South Americans arent fully Amerindian but your point is well taken.

Both Hispanic and Latino are moronic terms for ethnicity. South and central America are diverse ethnically. Culturally there is a spanish influence of course.

As for latino as a identifier, it excludes Italians. I kid you not.

Latino (English word) isn't the same as Latino (Spanish/Portuguese/Italian word). Latino (Spanish/Portuguese/Italian) can either mean Latin or Latino (English). Latin means a native or inhabitant of Latium or a Romance-speaking country. Latino (English) is someone of Latin American origin. Latin American (noun) means a native or inhabitant of Latin America or as an adjective it means of or relating to Latin America. Latin America means the parts of the American continent where Spanish or Portuguese are the main national languages.

Chorcai · 04-07-2020 1:10am

SANITIZER! It's everywhere!

An Ri rua · 04-07-2020 1:30am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Which one? The one I was forced to learn at school that I don't use?

Catch yourself on, would ya. That's disrespectful.

FVP3 · 04-07-2020 1:16pm

764dak wrote: »

Latino (American English word) isn't the same as Latino (Spanish/Portuguese/Italian word). Latino (Spanish/Portuguese/Italian) can either mean Latin or Latino (English). Latin means a native or inhabitant of Latium or a Romance-speaking country. Latino (American English) is someone of Latin American origin. Latin American (noun) means a native or inhabitant of Latin America or as an adjective it means of or relating to Latin America. Latin America means the parts of the American continent where Spanish or Portuguese are the main national languages.

It is that American use of the language I am disputing. Which is the nature of the thread. That use of Latin is also specifically American as in British english you can call the French and Italians Latin.

The US has moved away from Latino which is gendered ( not surprising since Spanish is a highly gendered language) to LatinX which hurts everybody's ears. The gender neutral term would be Latin, presumably they aren't using that because it conflicts with the British English version.

764dak · 04-07-2020 6:03pm

FVP3 wrote: »

It is that American use of the language I am disputing. Which is the nature of the thread. That use of Latin is also specifically American as in British english you can call the French and Italians Latin.

American English use of Latin is the same as British use. Latino isn't the same as Latin. Latino means Latin American. Etymology:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/Latino#etymonline_v_2103
Latino

"male Latin-American inhabitant of the United States" (fem. Latina), 1946, American English, from American Spanish, a shortening of Latinoamericano "Latin-American" (see Latin America). As an adjective, attested from 1974.

Latino was intended to differ from Latin from the start.

FVP3 wrote: »

The US has moved away from Latino which is gendered ( not surprising since Spanish is a highly gendered language) to LatinX which hurts everybody's ears.The gender neutral term would be Latin, presumably they aren't using that because it conflicts with the British English version.

Technically, the gender-neutral term would be Latin American.

SlowMotion321 · 10-07-2020 12:39am

Chorcai wrote: »

SANITIZER! It's everywhere!

That's because there is a pandemic!

TheDenialTwist · 10-07-2020 4:55am

theteal wrote: »

I get you OP, I work with Cisco equipment and quite regularly have to type the word "neighbor". . . .the baxtards!

Also, "Mom" is a Cork thing

I am born and bred in Cork County in a large urban town and we use the word 'Mam' not 'Mom'.

TheDenialTwist · 10-07-2020 5:08am

dotsman wrote: »

Guys, it is pretty simple. For as far back as anybody can remember:

Mom- for normal/Munster people.
Ma - for Dublin skangers
Mam/Mammy - for boggers
Mum/Mummy - for prods or people with illusions (especially if said with posh pre-pubescent english boy accent)

I am in Cork, I'm not a "bogger" ...and we say Mam, as far back as anyone can remember! So, is it a certain part of Cork that uses the word Mom? I always thought 'Mom' was an Americanisation or people trying to be posh?

dotsman · 24-07-2020 5:48pm

TheDenialTwist wrote: »

I am born and bred in Cork County

TheDenialTwist wrote: »

I'm not a "bogger"

Slight contradiction there!

24-07-2020 6:09pm

Did anyone do chemistry at school after the new course came in sometime in the 00's?

All of the textbooks and study guides were written in American English. We had "mandatory" experiments and we learned about the "color" of "sulfur" and the chemical properties of "aluminum".

Apparently it was assumed that if you were interested in Chemistry, you'd probably want to go and work for an American MNC, and they didn't want us looking illiterate. I still struggle to remember whether it's litre or liter.

GinSoaked · 24-07-2020 6:17pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Did anyone do chemistry at school after the new course came in sometime in the 00's?

All of the textbooks and study guides were written in American English. We had "mandatory" experiments and we learned about the "color" of "sulfur" and the chemical properties of "aluminum".

Apparently it was assumed that if you were interested in Chemistry, you'd probably want to go and work for an American MNC, and they didn't want us looking illiterate. I still struggle to remember whether it's litre or liter.

Americans don't use liters or liters

24-07-2020 6:31pm

GinSoaked wrote: »

Americans don't use liters or liters

Ah they do. Maybe not in the kitchen, but it's the standard unit for volume, so nobody has to be fiddling around with cups and pints.

GinSoaked · 24-07-2020 6:37pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ah they do. Maybe not in the kitchen, but it's the standard unit for volume, so nobody has to be fiddling around with cups and pints.

Wikipedia has a whole page on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units, but I wouldn't suggest scientists use old imperial measures.

8mv · 24-07-2020 7:16pm

Not sure if it has been mentioned already in this thread but I noticed at least two posts earlier today on Boards where the poster was "calling BS" on something or other. So I did a search and found to my horror that this is running rampant through the site. When, why and how
did this new imported American ****e take hold?

ShatterAlan · 24-07-2020 8:10pm

TheDenialTwist wrote: »

I am in Cork, I'm not a "bogger" ...and we say Mam, as far back as anyone can remember! So, is it a certain part of Cork that uses the word Mom? I always thought 'Mom' was an Americanisation or people trying to be posh?

You ARE a bogger and to cement that fact you come from Cork, home to the Boggeragh Mountains. You live up one of them...ADMIT IT! :pac:

JohnnyFlash · 24-07-2020 8:13pm

Staycation.

ShatterAlan · 24-07-2020 8:18pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Did anyone do chemistry at school after the new course came in sometime in the 00's?

All of the textbooks and study guides were written in American English. We had "mandatory" experiments and we learned about the "color" of "sulfur" and the chemical properties of "aluminum".

Apparently it was assumed that if you were interested in Chemistry, you'd probably want to go and work for an American MNC, and they didn't want us looking illiterate. I still struggle to remember whether it's litre or liter.

Aluminum is an abomination. Some tit decided to change the emphasis on the 2nd rather than 3rd syllable and realised that pronouncing the i was then rather difficult so just discarded it.

And it's litre no liter. They are all derived from French....theatre, not theater, etc.

The distance measurement is METRE but the device to measure something is METER if I'm not mistaken, e.g. THERMOMETER. TACHOMETER, OPISOMETER.

boardise · 24-07-2020 8:31pm

Some white dudes think it's cool to hang with people of color to show how inclusive they are...this could happen at ballgames , in nite clubs or on vacation. Ain't gonna happen much round my neighborhood though . You do the math man and go figure.

riclad · 24-07-2020 9:35pm

Irish people use my ma, or mother, if they use the word mom it's a joke. Of course some people use Internet slang like LOL and WTF,
so many websites are based in America,
they influence anyone that reads them in any country. I hope we do not switch over to American spelling of words. There's no malls in Ireland, Americans use feet no metres. Miles not km. Many news websites block EU users as they do not want to follow the terms on Gdpr.
And there's rural slang, and dublin slang.
Many Irish and UK programs are shown in America with subtitles as they may not understand regional accents even though we speak English.

the purple tin · 24-07-2020 9:49pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

American dates are worse. Many people in my work do it as they have worked for American companies in the past. It drives me mad... I don't know what date that is now. So so stupid.

Like Stewart Lee used to say when people talked about how 9-11 changed America 'why, what happened on the 9th of November?' :pac:

764dak · 24-07-2020 9:52pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Aluminum is an abomination. Some tit decided to change the emphasis on the 2nd rather than 3rd syllable and realised that pronouncing the i was then rather difficult so just discarded it.

Sir Humphrey Davy discovered and named the metal. Aluminum is a slightly older spelling of aluminium.

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/06/aluminum-vs-aluminium.html

In 1808 Sir Humphry Davy, the British chemist who discovered the metal, named it “alumium.” With just one “i” and an “ium” ending, it straddled the two competing versions we have today.

Four years later, however, Davy changed his mind and gave the metal the name “aluminum” (yup, the one-“i” American version). In his book Elements of Chemical Philosophy, published in 1812, Davy wrote, “As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state. “

But later that same year other scientists decided “aluminum” didn’t sound sufficiently Latin, so they began calling it “aluminium.” Here’s a quote from the Quarterly Review: “Aluminium, for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound.”

the purple tin · 24-07-2020 9:55pm

The yanks say miss-sill for missile.
Then by rights they should also say 'who left this pill of clothes on the floor?' and 'I'm so tired, I went on a 5 mill run this morning'.

Tom Mann Centuria · 24-07-2020 10:01pm

Flavoursome is becoming flavourful (only a matter of time before we lose the o in flavour).

Buns have become cupcakes.

I'm old enough to remember when it was a new series of a telly programme, not a new season.

Announcing date as July 24th (other dates are available).

An "assist" is something in sport. A golfer who hits a good shot is told "great golf shot".

I've even heard the odd cnut call Autumn "Fall"

The way they pronounce Solder as sawder.

Granadino · 24-07-2020 10:07pm

Mom is usually used or was used by posh folk or folk who wanted to sound posh. Now it's used by lots of young folk. Drives me mad. Anyone who is not American who uses "fall" instead of Autumn deserves beating.

boardise · 24-07-2020 10:20pm

Duplicate post.

ShatterAlan · 25-07-2020 12:50am

GinSoaked wrote: »

Wikipedia has a whole page on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units, but I wouldn't suggest scientists use old imperial measures.

If I'm not mistaken a bunch of Americans in consort with others around the world built some kind of drone or satellite or something. The Americans did their "math" in imperial units and the project crashed costing a few million because of their retarded calculations.

Usual American "We know best" Horsesh1t.

Yeah..this is the one:

https://www.simscale.com/blog/2017/12/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/

I studied Engineering in University and the SI units are metric, volume, speed, distance, weight, temperature, the lot.

These dopes tried to calibrate metric into ridiculous measurements and fcuked it all up.

They'd still be at hogheads, cubits, dynes and roods if they could get away with it.

A "gallon" of ice-cream? Effing hell!

Capt'n Midnight · 25-07-2020 1:19am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Did anyone do chemistry at school after the new course came in sometime in the 00's?

All of the textbooks and study guides were written in American English. We had "mandatory" experiments and we learned about the "color" of "sulfur" and the chemical properties of "aluminum".

Apparently it was assumed that if you were interested in Chemistry, you'd probably want to go and work for an American MNC, and they didn't want us looking illiterate. I still struggle to remember whether it's litre or liter.

How international is the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry ?
https://iupac.org/what-we-do/periodic-table-of-elements/

CBear1993 · 25-07-2020 1:22am

I’ve noticed on iPhones and other platforms now it always tries to autocorrect centre to center and tyres to tires.

Colour to color, realise to realize.

F*ck off America.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-07-2020 1:25am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken a bunch of Americans in consort with others around the world built some kind of drone or satellite or something. The Americans did their "math" in imperial units and the project crashed costing a few million because of their retarded calculations.

Just like the Hubble Space telescope NASA told the contractor what to do, but didn't check they actually did it.

The US military has been using Klicks* since forever

Metric units are defined. Imperial units changed over time. In the USA a foot depends on the date.

On US maps heights are measured in different sized feet

*Kilometers.

The Americanization of spelling and terminology

Comments