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Sinn Watches

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    If I were in the market for a brand new watch I have to say Sinn would be about top of my list.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭hitemfrank


    There's a 5 week wait on the black mother of pearl version I want.

    It'll probably be ordered on payday at the end of this month.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,230 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    They have a great range of watches. I really like the 104


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    What I like about them is they are very nice quality, have actual history with issued military stuff, but are well under the radar and not "fashionable".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,501 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Wibbs wrote: »
    What I like about them is they are very nice quality, have actual history with issued military stuff, but are well under the radar and not "fashionable".

    I'd be of the same opinion really.
    I'd seen a few people post about them on here, but to be quite honest until I'd started looking for an alternative to the Bund, I actually had not paid much attention to the brand.

    There is a Sinn JDM reissue of their version of the flyback chrono that in my limited experience is overpriced for what it is.

    There does appear to be some very good value however for their tool watches 2nd hand so that's where I'm looking and the U2 SDR really is catching my eye.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    ronnie3585 wrote: »
    I've a U1 SDR for the last 8 years and I love it. It's one of few watches I own that I wouldn't consider selling. It is very much a marmite watch as it's completely different to most styles out there.

    The build quality is superb. Mine is worn in rotation and doesn't get babied, yet it looks like new. I've no issues with the H bracelet, I find it very comfortable. Mine has an ETA movement (think they've moved to Sellita now) which keeps excellent time. It's due a service so I'll send it to Sinn later in the year when I'm due to be in the Fatherland.

    Sinn's pricing has increased significantly over the past decade, so they're not as good value as they used to be, but you still get a lot of bang for your buck. Something like a second hand 104 (with an ETA movement) can be picked up for well under a grand, that is stonkingly good value.

    My next purchase will be an 857UTC. I've been after one for years but they never sold in big numbers so second hand ones are rare, so I may have to buy new.

    There’s an 856 UTC on TZ-UK at the moment, if it’s any interest. I think it needs that bezel though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Zagato


    https://monochrome-watches.com/relaunching-the-bundeswehr-chronograph-meet-the-sinn-x-the-rake-revolution-155-bundeswehr-dark-star/

    This looks nice.
    A bit like Zenith Chronometro Tipo CP-2 which is currently my grail.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That new Sinn BUND is very nice. Pretty reasonable price too considering how mad the vintage Heuer/Leonidas ones have gone(that Sinnis the price of a Heuer service for one of their bunds. Rip off merchants). Mad that Heuer never did a reissue, you'd think it would sell like hot cakes?

    I particularly like that Sinn have reproduced the four screws holding in the movement feature. It would have been much simpler to do a screwback.

    Maybe I'm missing it but is it still a flyback chrono? Having had a few chronos down the years for me the flyback function is the "killer app" on these. First invented in the 30's by Longines the flyback or "faux rattrapante" was the feature on pilots and navigators and artillery watches.

    Though on that page this bit is inaccurate:

    It was during this period that the luminous materials used were changed from the earlier radioactive substance to something safer, hence the dials with “3H” (Hydrogen-3) to denote the conversion. Some versions of the dial also included a small “t” on top of the 6 o’clock index that also referred to the presence of tritium.

    None of the Heuer(or Leonidas AFAIR) came with radium. They were always tritium. Sinn produced some dials in the late 80's with luminova or similar, as well as keeping the older tritium dials too, but the 3H and small T denotes tritium. The 3H seems to be a later mid 70's onward military service dial. I seem to recall a German military standard was brought out in the 70's that required better labelling of radioactive service items. You see the same 3H on German issued IWC watches. All early original condition examples have the small T.

    Of course these days with so many "new old stock" in the vintage market, the German market in particular preferring "as new" condition, dodgy dealers and many with dubious dials and the utter lack of Heuer records of any use it's buyer beware.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,501 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Zagato wrote: »

    I suppose joining the waitlist won't cost me anything?
    ;)

    Have a U2 SDR deal on the go at the moment, but the Bund has been since I've seen Wibbs' been a bit of a grail.
    Can't afford a genuine vintage, but I'd happily flip the Breitling my wife has set aside for my 40th for one.
    TBH even finding a good homage is hard, so I'll take a Sinn repop if I can get one ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭thelizardking1


    Wibbs wrote: »
    First invented in the 20's by Breitling the flyback or "faux rattrapante" was the feature on pilots and navigators and artillery watches.

    Fixed that for you ;)


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Well... yes and no T. Breitling's setup was different to the Longines version and the Longines setup was different enough to earlier types like the Breitling to be granted the patent for the layout fitted to watches from the 30's down to today.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭thelizardking1


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well... yes and no T. Breitling's setup was different to the Longines version and the Longines setup was different enough to earlier types like the Breitling to be granted the patent for the layout fitted to watches from the 30's down to today.

    Well yes in fact. The Flyback function was "invented" by Breitling in the 20's. It was later patented by Longines in the 30's.

    Sorry to be pedantic but facts matter!

    I know from reading here that you have a fantastic knowledge of watches so do understand that I'm not trying to insult you!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh jaysus T, no insult at all felt, nor expected.

    I 100% agree with you T that Breitling were major innovators in wrist chronographs. During the first world war they were the first to add a button separate to the winding crown to start/stop the chronograph*. Previously the action was all in the crown to start, stop and reset which is what Longines, Zenith and others used. They were also the first to remove the winding crown from the proceedings entirely by adding the second button.

    Well... again yes and no. Yes on the second claim, but on the first maybe not. While Breitling did bring out a watch with the start/stop button they weren't the only ones out at the time. Gallet was another.

    Now we get to the flyback function. That is while the chronograph is running it can be stopped and reset to zero and continue running and measuring a new time period from zero by hitting one button. The Breitling chronos didn't have to be stopped and then reset to be started again, but it seems they didn't return to zero. From their own history which I had knocking about;

    In 1915, Breitling heralded the emergence of the wrist chronograph by inventing the first independent chronograph pushpiece. In 1923, the firm perfected this system by separating the stop/start functions from that of resetting. This patented innovation thereby made it possible to add several successive times without returning the hands to zero – which proved extremely useful both for timing sports competitions and for calculating flight times."

    Now Breitling held a load of patents for chronographs(and other innovations), but that specific function they clearly didn't as Longines nor anybody else could have patented over an existing patent.

    The problem these days with a lot of this who innovated what is the century of Swiss marketing BS that has been left to us and ramped up over the last couple of decades and there's a helluva lot of dodgy info out there. Wikipedia and forums and outlets like Hodinkee often support the dodgy info. At one time Rolex's wiki was a joke where it seemed they invented everything of note in the wristwatch(and many forums and youtubers seem still convinced of this). Girard Perregaux claim the first male wristwatch and a military one no less in the 1880's and there's zero evidence for it and I suspect it goes back to a forum post in the late 90's by a well respected "expert" and dealer. Cartier jump into the first wristwatch arena too with their story of the Santos, yet not a single example of one exists before circa 1920. Never mind that Omega had advertised wristwatches in 1908(or 6?) and wristlets are mentioned as far back as the Boer war. Unless new evidence comes to light Omega were the first to specifically release them under their own name and specifically men's watches.

    So over the years I've learned to take any marques claims with a pinch of salt unless they can be independently verified. If I see a video of a Breitling from the 20's where the the hand resets to zero and continues running I'll be convinced. I have seen videos of the Longines examples from the 30's doing precisely that(I've even held one in my trembling hands :D). That and their patent would seem to seal the deal for them and the flyback. As things currently stand.





    *in a wristwatch. That had been in pocket watches since the mid 1800's

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Just popped in to say, in case anyone isn't aware, you can go to the Sinn website and request a catalog and they'll post it for free. Nowadays many brands don't do physical catalogs I find, and some won't ship to Ireland.

    And it isn't just a pamphlet, it's a gorgeous hardbound book, with the entire line illustrated. Doesn't include prices but has a LOT of writing about the history of their different pieces from how the ideas were gestated to their design and manufacture. I've been reading it before I sleep at night like a bedtime story :)

    While I'd be over the moon with a simple 104 they have some really extraordinary pieces, like the ones where the case and dial is made from one piece of damascus steel (about 8k retail). The swirly look on a dial probably wouldn't be to everyones taste but I think they're class, would certainly be durable to. And despite having a very tool based identity they also have amazing looking dress watches and one of the best looking ladies' lines I've ever seen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭funkyouup


    I reckon come monday morning some lad working at Sinn will be wondering about the sudden interest in their catalog from Ireland:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    funkyouup wrote: »
    I reckon come monday morning some lad working at Sinn will be wondering about the sudden interest in their catalog from Ireland:)

    I'm sure they will happily fill any requests with the typical German efficiency! meanwhile not a single Swiss swatch group brand has the option on their website.

    have to say I know where I'm more likely to spend my money if I ever get some!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,501 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Just popped in to say, in case anyone isn't aware, you can go to the Sinn website and request a catalog and they'll post it for free.

    Thanks for that!
    I've just ordered one of those :)
    It's really so I can get a good look at the bracelet options and actually give them some money tho :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Northern Monkey


    I was thinking about going to Frankfurt for the motor show. Might try and visit Sinn if I do. My 856utc needs a service so it would be a good opportunity to hand deliver it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭hitemfrank


    banie01 wrote: »
    Thanks for that!
    I've just ordered one of those :)
    It's really so I can get a good look at the bracelet options and actually give them some money tho :P

    I did the same. It'll be nice to look through the physical catalog.

    In other news I decided to wait until the end of next work before ordering a Sinn. I've a holiday in the middle of this month so decided to keep some extra money for that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,501 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The Sinn catalogue was delivered this morning.
    It's beautiful!
    A hardbacked piece of marketing beauty that has made me want to give those lovely Germans a piece of my pension!

    It really is a substantial and quite lovely little thing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭funkyouup


    All my postman brought me was a supervalu brochure:(


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭Ryath


    Got mine too! They really do have some lovely pieces. One or two have caught my eye before but I've never really looked through their full range. I may have a new grail or two!

    Can't complain about German efficiency though I ordered something from Amazon the day before the catalogue and it still hasn't shipped! Pity though they didn't use a padded envelope, mines a tiny bit bashed up on the corners.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    All I got was an effin gas bill. :D

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,501 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Ryath wrote: »
    Got mine too! They really do have some lovely pieces. One or two have caught my eye before but I've never really looked through their full range. I may have a new grail or two!

    The Damaszener, The Hunting Watch and the Space Chrono's...
    Sweet Jesus they really, really do make some beautiful pieces.
    I had been aware of the 856, the U2 and a few of their other models but in particular the 155...

    But the catalogue has just made me wish I had a stack of cash to give Sinn!

    I'm even happier that I actually own one now :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Northern Monkey


    Now booked for Frankfurt for this weekend. Will be nice to see all the models in the flesh! I will take a few (loads) pictures and post them up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,501 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Now booked for Frankfurt for this weekend. Will be nice to see all the models in the flesh! I will take a few (loads) pictures and post them up.

    You lucky lucky bastárd :P

    The images of the shop in the catalogue have me thinking I must do the same!
    Just have to slowly introduce the notion of a trip to Frankfurt in such a way that its her idea ;)

    Enjoy the trip, and I hope the experience is a great one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Northern Monkey


    I was originally just going to go as a day trip for the motor show as the flight times are perfect for it but decided to tack on the extra day to have a look around. Mid week flights were €100 return when I looked at it last week for this/next week and hotels seem reasonable too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,230 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Now booked for Frankfurt for this weekend. Will be nice to see all the models in the flesh! I will take a few (loads) pictures and post them up.

    Set your camera/phone on high quality. Definitely want to see these


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭Northern Monkey


    A quick link to the pics from the Sinn trip until I get to a PC to do a proper post about it.

    I went to both the shop in the centre of Frankfurt as well as to the factory. The shop is nice but the factory is worth the extra effort. It was about €20 in a taxi to get out there.

    They are extremely trusting at the factory, all watches are sitting out in the open to try on without having to ask. I’m sure I was there 20 minutes before anyone came over to see if I needed help!

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/vyyzu5ui/

    Favourites for me where the financial district 6000, the U1 SE, the 903 and the 756 diapal. I went there expecting to pick up a 103 of some description but didn’t really fall in love with any of them when trying them on. A special mention also goes to the hunting watch, it looked nice but was a tad large.

    If I had to pick one I think it would be the financial district.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,501 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    A quick link to the pics from the Sinn trip until I get to a PC to do a proper post about it.

    NM, thank you so much for the pictures and the mini-review.
    You have reinforced my already high opinion of those Germans ;)


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