Lough Cutra 24th May 2015

Dilbert75 · 24-05-2015 8:57pm

Sure was well run. Apart from the juniors cycling on the same path as swimmers running to t1 I saw nothing much I would have changed. The support swimmers and kayakers for the juniors were excellent.

zico10 · 24-05-2015 9:51pm

I don't know if this happened in other races, but the swimmers in The Gaunlet were let swim into rocks when rounding the island. They should have been marked out of bounds with buoys, or at the very least have a kayak warning swimmers of the hazard. It wasn't much fun banging my hands off the rocks just a few inches below the water surface and I imagine a good few people were inspecting their wetsuits for damage after the race. I saw a kayak racing over after I'd passed through, but it was too late for me and many others. It was a major oversight on the part of the organisers.
Perhaps it's unavoidable, and it's a pretty minor in comparison to swimming into rocks, but nor did I like having to cut through a line of cyclists to get back to T2, or having to cross the cycle route three times on the run.
Apart from these things, I thought it was a very well run race.

Ceepo · 24-05-2015 9:55pm

zico10 wrote: »

I don't know if this happened in other races, but the swimmers in The Gaunlet were let swim into rocks when rounding the island. They should have been marked out of bounds with buoys, or at the very least have a kayak warning swimmers of the hazard. It wasn't much fun banging my hands off the rocks just a few inches below the water surface and I imagine a good few people were inspecting their wetsuits for damage after the race. I saw a kayak racing over after I'd passed through, but it was too late for me and many others. It was a major oversight on the part of the organisers.
Perhaps it's unavoidable, and it's a pretty minor in comparison to swimming into rocks, but nor did I like having to cut through a line of cyclists to get back to T2, or having to cross the cycle route three times on the run.
Apart from these things, I thought it was a very well run race.

I could be wrong but I think the oly was a different swim route

Kurt_Godel · 24-05-2015 9:58pm

zico10 wrote: »

I don't know if this happened in other races, but the swimmers in The Gaunlet were let swim into rocks when rounding the island. They should have been marked out of bounds with buoys, or at the very least have a kayak warning swimmers of the hazard. It wasn't much fun banging my hands off the rocks just a few inches below the water surface and I imagine a good few people were inspecting their wetsuits for damage after the race. I saw a kayak racing over after I'd passed through, but it was too late for me and many others. It was a major oversight on the part of the organisers.
Perhaps it's unavoidable, and it's a pretty minor in comparison to swimming into rocks, but nor did I like having to cut through a line of cyclists to get back to T2, or having to cross the cycle route three times on the run.
Apart from these things, I thought it was a very well run race.

Thats dangerous. The Oly swam a long 1,500m, out and back, no rocks and no going around the island. No reason why you guys couldn't have been given that course with a further marker.

(Actually now that I think of it the bike/run crossovers were pretty bad. Also I wondered why people wave 4 were lined up against the barrier, thats pretty bad too. And the backroads were in fairly rag order... a lot more positives than negatives, I probably have rose glasses still on!)

mossym · 24-05-2015 10:22pm

not complaining, but does anyone else have the swim course long? I left my garmin running all the way back to transition. but i did the same last year and i'm reading over 200m more than last year

Ceepo · 24-05-2015 10:37pm

mossym wrote: »

not complaining, but does anyone else have the swim course long? I left my garmin running all the way back to transition. but i did the same last year and i'm reading over 200m more than last year

I hope so as I hope I am not that bad lol.

Most if the people I spoke to said there swim time was down on what they would normally be around.
I know I definitely done more as I kept tight to the bouy going out and back which in normal terms would be fine but the were blown of centre by the breeze. Solely my own fault.

@ Kurt you must be happy to get in a full swim
How did the rest of the race go for you ?

Kurt_Godel · 24-05-2015 10:41pm

Ceepo wrote: »

I hope so as I hope I am not that bad lol.

Most if the people I spoke to said there swim time was down on what they would normally be around.
I know I definitely done more as I kept tight to the bouy going out and back which in normal terms would be fine but the were blown of centre by the breeze. Solely my own fault.

@ Kurt you must be happy to get in a full swim
How did the rest of the race go for you ?

Cold swim going ahead + extra swim distance = best race ever

No garmin but the swim was a lot longer than 2014. I had one of my best swim races today and was down on 2014 time. 200m looks about right. Decent bike for me after and I held together a bad achilles on the run so pretty happy overall.

Squeaker · 24-05-2015 11:34pm

We're all the run routes short?
Are relay teams second class citizens in lough cutra? (I ask this simply because I see that the team prize,when compared to the entry fee,is embarrassing) [the winning team got a e15 voucher for a shop in south Galway,each,off a e125 entry fee]
A very well organized event without a doubt,however,if you are prepared to charge good money for entry,then it seems only fair to reflect that in the prize structure.

Ceepo · 24-05-2015 11:35pm

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Cold swim going ahead + extra swim distance = best race ever

No garmin but the swim was a lot longer than 2014. I had one of my best swim races today and was down on 2014 time. 200m looks about right. Decent bike for me after and I held together a bad achilles on the run so pretty happy overall.[/quote

Great stuff so faith us restored so.

Probably the opposite for me down on the swim happy enough with the bike but I think I had a good run ( for me anyway )

Chartsengrafs · 24-05-2015 11:56pm

Squeaker wrote: »

Are relay teams second class citizens in lough cutra?

Not sure a relay prize should be comparable to an individual one considering there's usually considerably more competition on an individual level. How many relay teams were there?

rodneyr1981 · 25-05-2015 7:56am

Thought yesterday was very well run. There was big numbers across all races. Agree with zico on the rocks on the far side of island. Was close to damaging wet suit. Water was lovely though. The bike course on the HIM had me rattled but was expecting that. Very honest course

gparker · 25-05-2015 8:47am

My Garmin in the Standard was reading 2.08k for the Swim ... not sure how long I was running towards transition before hitting the lap button, but going by my swim time 2k would be roughly right. Water was cold but not as cold as I was expecting, fine once you got going. Some of the road surface on the bike course was brutal. Dont't like cross county run courses but I knew that was the case when signing up. Very well marshalled event and a great venue, having never been there before.

mossym · 25-05-2015 8:56am

yeah, looking at my garmins for the last 2 years i'd suspect significantly more than a 200m difference now.

edit, not a complaint, for reasons i'll go into in my own log it was the best of swims and the worst of swims, by the end if they had told us head off on another lap i;d gladly have done. so i've no issue with anything extra

topcat77 · 25-05-2015 9:26am

My swim time this year (Olympic) was the same as my swim last year (Gauntlet). 200m - 400m sounds about right.

iAcesHigh · 25-05-2015 9:38am

Lol, it seems that everybody loved this race but also everybody has some problems with it

My impression (and I'll go much deeper in my blog) is that the organization was great, but because of few problems it actually isn't worth as much as they charge (crossing between cycle and run is a big no-no for me). Also, cycle part had few km of really bad roads, but not much to do there for organizers and transition was quite clear for me (since I was way back due to awful swim, as mentioned this was my first swim below 20 degrees :P) but it seemed a bit hectic for others there

When it comes to distances, my swim was 1k but I did have some problems and I can see in ma Garmin graph it isn't as straight as it should be

On the other hand, my bike records show 42 km (don't want to object since I compensated some time lost on the swim) and run was a bit shorter for me but that was the easiest (only part of race I felt comfortable really) for me - although I'm used running on roads tbh.

All in all, venue was great, atmosphere was nice and I'm glad this was my choice for first triathlon in Ireland.

mossym · 25-05-2015 10:48am

does anyone know what the gloves are for?

Kander · 25-05-2015 11:01am

mossym wrote: »

does anyone know what the gloves are for?

Lol no idea, I'm still trying to guess.

Fitting gloves maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHH5vkK_2ac

rodneyr1981 · 25-05-2015 11:02am

mossym wrote:

does anyone know what the gloves are for?

Protecting wetsuit when putting on. Or gardening which ever suits

mossym · 25-05-2015 11:08am

rodneyr1981 wrote: »

Protecting wetsuit when putting on.

that's the best suggestion i've heard yet. they were a real source of conversation in transition yesterday

tunney · 25-05-2015 11:15am

mossym wrote: »

that's the best suggestion i've heard yet. they were a real source of conversation in transition yesterday

Anyone see "Fight Club" - remember the scene with Tyler and Marla in the bedroom with the gloves....................

peter kern · 25-05-2015 4:35pm

I thought this was a brill race ( and yes have to agree with zico re the rocks that's something for the organizer to consider for next year)

great swim course
stunning bike course , I love the Burren ever since i cycled there as an teenager on a trip around ireland. and the roads are the same for everybody and never boring.
And one of the best running courses I have seen.

the week after an Saint Poelten I loved the simplicity for pre race prep and no nonsense atmoshpere.

Despite being a morron and not being able to interpret a sign that was almost 1 meter wide , that was the best marshalled -after the tris organiced by wicklow tri club- and signed course , I have seen in Ireland .Especially the half , and i did a lap of the oly course too ;-)

I dodnt really understand the problem people had to cross the bike path. there was a nice marshall informing you to take care and all you had to do was to look up for a few seconds and be greatful that you had already finished the bike ahead of them ;-0

It was great to see so many people camping at the venue and kind of reviving the old tri spirit .

tunney · 25-05-2015 4:55pm

Squeaker wrote: »

We're all the run routes short?
Are relay teams second class citizens in lough cutra? (I ask this simply because I see that the team prize,when compared to the entry fee,is embarrassing) [the winning team got a e15 voucher for a shop in south Galway,each,off a e125 entry fee]
A very well organized event without a doubt,however,if you are prepared to charge good money for entry,then it seems only fair to reflect that in the prize structure.

Really relays should not be allowed in triathlons. I support anything that dissuades people from entering as a relay.

Ceepo · 25-05-2015 6:52pm

tunney wrote: »

Really people should not be allowed in triathlons. I support anything that dissuades people from entering a triathlon.

I fixed that for you !!

Squeaker · 25-05-2015 11:25pm

Basster wrote: »

Not sure a relay prize should be comparable to an individual one considering there's usually considerably more competition on an individual level. How many relay teams were there?

Of course it isn't comparable to the real deal,anyone that finished any of the events yesterday deserves acknowledgement.
My point is more about the fact that the organisers see fit to hold a relay race in conjunction with the triathlon (happily charging e125),but seem to think a token voucher represents a prize.
In fairness the organisers are content to give out 50% off vouchers to many of the prize winners (and consider them 'a prize')....not the most professional set up on the triathlon calendar me thinks,but then,if we are only in it for the glory of participation,this is the way to go.

Squeaker · 25-05-2015 11:29pm

tunney wrote: »

Really relays should not be allowed in triathlons. I support anything that dissuades people from entering as a relay.

Dude,you need to get a life....that's way below the belt for all the poor people innocent enough to participate.

sconhome · 26-05-2015 8:50am

Squeaker wrote: »

My point is more about the fact that the organisers see fit to hold a relay race in conjunction with the triathlon (happily charging e125),but seem to think a token voucher represents a prize.
In fairness the organisers are content to give out 50% off vouchers to many of the prize winners (and consider them 'a prize')....not the most professional set up on the triathlon calendar me thinks,but then,if we are only in it for the glory of participation,this is the way to go.

I think the point being missed is you were happy to pay the €125 as a team to enter the race without expectations of a win so anything you get in return is a bonus.

If you entered a relay race with the sole intention of cleaning up on prizes then really you should be good enough to race solo.

mossym · 26-05-2015 9:06am

peter kern wrote: »

I dodnt really understand the problem people had to cross the bike path. there was a nice marshall informing you to take care and all you had to do was to look up for a few seconds and be greatful that you had already finished the bike ahead of them ;-0

i'm with Peter on this. wasn't a big fan of the course overall last year, but had different aims this year and i really enjoyed it. back road was lumpy but everyone got bounced around. run course, after cursing majorly last year, i really enjoyed, even if i couldn't get going. other than slowing down to check for bikes at the crossing it wasn't an issue.

and the looks of the cyclists as they realised they still had to do what you had done already brought a smile as well...

tunney · 26-05-2015 9:16am

Squeaker wrote: »

Dude,you need to get a life....that's way below the belt for all the poor people innocent enough to participate.

Get a life and do a relay? And then tell everyone that I did a triathlon and I'm a triathlete? That sort of life?

gilleek2 · 26-05-2015 10:00am

peter kern wrote: »

I thought this was a brill race ( and yes have to agree with zico re the rocks that's something for the organizer to consider for next year)

great swim course
stunning bike course , I love the Burren ever since i cycled there as an teenager on a trip around ireland. and the roads are the same for everybody and never boring.
And one of the best running courses I have seen.

the week after an Saint Poelten I loved the simplicity for pre race prep and no nonsense atmoshpere.

Despite being a morron and not being able to interpret a sign that was almost 1 meter wide , that was the best marshalled -after the tris organiced by wicklow tri club- and signed course , I have seen in Ireland .Especially the half , and i did a lap of the oly course too ;-)

I dodnt really understand the problem people had to cross the bike path. there was a nice marshall informing you to take care and all you had to do was to look up for a few seconds and be greatful that you had already finished the bike ahead of them ;-0

It was great to see so many people camping at the venue and kind of reviving the old tri spirit .

Rocks were a right pain especially with a nearly new wetsuit that cost a months rent and its something that could easily be fixed by shifting the buoys 5 yards away from the island.

Out of interest, how short do you think the swim was? Zico and I were trying to work it out and reckoned it was around 1700-1750? Any thoughts?

Crossing the bike course had the potential to be dodgey but perhaps there was no way around it.

Kander · 26-05-2015 10:39am

Have to admit I really enjoyed the whole course and the set up that was done from start to finish. Any failings were my own :P

I'll be back again next year for sure.

Oh did anyone hear more on the injured cyclist on the downhill section to the bridge? I heard the ambulance was needed for them.

peter kern · 26-05-2015 11:55am

gilleek2 wrote: »

Rocks were a right pain especially with a nearly new wetsuit that cost a months rent and its something that could easily be fixed by shifting the buoys 5 yards away from the island.

Out of interest, how short do you think the swim was? Zico and I were trying to work it out and reckoned it was around 1700-1750? Any thoughts?

Crossing the bike course had the potential to be dodgey but perhaps there was no way around it.

you could have built a bridge over the cycle pass and then people would complain they had to go up the hill while going over the bridge... ( the crossing was at an uphill setcion for cyclist so it was in my mind very safely designed)
or you could do a split transiton but i dodnt think thats worth the hassle either.

I believe the organisers took on feedback form last year ( like dismount aerea etc ) so i guess if we let them know re rocks they will sort it out.

re swim lenght i am sure it was at least 1800 and more like 1825 -1850 m

sconhome · 26-05-2015 12:44pm

peter kern wrote: »

I believe the organisers took on feedback form last year ( like dismount aerea etc ) so i guess if we let them know re rocks they will sort it out.

From what I understand the buoys were blow or drifted off line which may have meant the rocks at the island came into play. I don't think there was any issue with the Gauntlet swim last year so likely down to buoy positioning.

peter kern · 26-05-2015 1:44pm

AKW wrote: »

From what I understand the buoys were blow or drifted off line which may have meant the rocks at the island came into play. I don't think there was any issue with the Gauntlet swim last year so likely down to buoy positioning.

I would think so too, theyhad been aware of them before the race and made it clear to stay to the left of buoys , so there is a god chance one buoy moved, it just means they have to be a bit more careful to fix the buoys better.

For the Gentelman complaining about his prime.
I would ask him how much he thinks he will get if he wins the 70.3 relay
I will answers that for him and it will be absolutely nada and not even a 50% discount for next years entry. Lough cultra actually had the 2nd highest prize purse of any triathlon In ireland in 2015 not that far off 70.3 Dublin .

zico10 · 26-05-2015 3:08pm

peter kern wrote: »

you could have built a bridge over the cycle pass and then people would complain they had to go up the hill while going over the bridge... ( the crossing was at an uphill setcion for cyclist so it was in my mind very safely designed)
or you could do a split transiton but i dodnt think thats worth the hassle either.

Had they built the bridge, everybody would have had to go over it. There would have been no need to stop, slow down, or run a circuitous route to avoid cyclists, and it would have been a fair race. Having to run across the cycle route wasn't necessarily so equitable. Twice I made it across without having to stop, but the first time I wasn't so lucky.
Finishing up the bike, I was also held up turning back into the castle. I had to overshoot the turn to avoid cyclists on the opposite side of the road and lost considerable momentum here.
I only lost between 5-10 seconds because of the course design and on the day neither of these hold ups had any bearing on my finishing position, but they might have had. Somebody might have had the good fortune to have never been held up, or it could have quite easily been the case that other people were held up longer than me.
I know it was a tiny, tiny part of the race, and maybe there is genuinely no way around it, but not everybody necessarily had to race under the same conditions. It's this fairness of it that I take issue with.

The crossover on the run route might have been safe, but cyclists crossing the path of other cyclists on the way into the castle certainly wasn't.

Colly8 · 26-05-2015 3:16pm

My Garmin had the swim as 1780 meters but I usually swim a but taking account of the fact that I never swim in a straight line, I would guess that the swim was between 1700-1750.
I clocked the bike at about 94km and the run as 20.2km. Not sure if this is consistent with what others had....

gilleek2 · 26-05-2015 4:16pm

peter kern wrote: »

you could have built a bridge over the cycle pass and then people would complain they had to go up the hill while going over the bridge... ( the crossing was at an uphill setcion for cyclist so it was in my mind very safely designed)
or you could do a split transiton but i dodnt think thats worth the hassle either.

I believe the organisers took on feedback form last year ( like dismount aerea etc ) so i guess if we let them know re rocks they will sort it out.

re swim lenght i am sure it was at least 1800 and more like 1825 -1850 m

Well, if you reckon 1800 then i'm over the moon with my time.
If the race grows significantly the numbers on the course may necessitate some form of work-around at the bike/run crossover but for me personally i only had to briefly adjust my stride to allow a look left and right. Maybe having an extra and quite vocal marshall there would be sufficient. There was a guy loitering around near the carpark shouting encouragment at people when he might have been better used elsewhere. He was heard at one point bellowing out "yes, i like shouting"!

sconhome · 26-05-2015 4:30pm

gilleek2 wrote: »

Well, if you reckon 1800 then i'm over the moon with my time.
If the race grows significantly the numbers on the course may necessitate some form of work-around at the bike/run crossover but for me personally i only had to briefly adjust my stride to allow a look left and right. Maybe having an extra and quite vocal marshall there would be sufficient. There was a guy loitering around near the carpark shouting encouragment at people when he might have been better used elsewhere. He was heard at one point bellowing out "yes, i like shouting"!

Easily capacity in terms of facilities to grown massively there over the next few years. The more events that are happening in Lough Cutra the more they are learning about managing numbers.

No reason why the races can't be split over a 2 day festival with acres of onsite camping and the kids area, all the family could be there for the weekend.

Ceepo · 26-05-2015 5:29pm

AKW wrote: »

Easily capacity in terms of facilities to grown massively there over the next few years. The more events that are happening in Lough Cutra the more they are learning about managing numbers.

No reason why the races can't be split over a 2 day festival with acres of onsite camping and the kids area, all the family could be there for the weekend.

They could start be making sure that have enough bike racks for the volume of people that have entered. Bikes racked against the railings is one thing but just left in the ground was unacceptable imo

peter kern · 26-05-2015 5:36pm

triathlon is not a sport in a controlled environment so some people will always have small advantages and disatvantgaes. sometimes you get a good group in the swim sometimes you dont etc .
and i dodnt really think you can say you have not goinaed those 5 seconds you lost, being around other cyclists on the course. so you lost 10 seconds and maybe won 1 min somewhere else ... while kevin T was in another zipp code and really the only thing we should think about is to close the gap to kevin rather than complaining aoubt 10 seconds when we are 10 min behind....

zico10 wrote: »

Had they built the bridge, everybody would have had to go over it. There would have been no need to stop, slow down, or run a circuitous route to avoid cyclists, and it would have been a fair race. Having to run across the cycle route wasn't necessarily so equitable. Twice I made it across without having to stop, but the first time I wasn't so lucky.
Finishing up the bike, I was also held up turning back into the castle. I had to overshoot the turn to avoid cyclists on the opposite side of the road and lost considerable momentum here.
I only lost between 5-10 seconds because of the course design and on the day neither of these hold ups had any bearing on my finishing position, but they might have had. Somebody might have had the good fortune to have never been held up, or it could have quite easily been the case that other people were held up longer than me.
I know it was a tiny, tiny part of the race, and maybe there is genuinely no way around it, but not everybody necessarily had to race under the same conditions. It's this fairness of it that I take issue with.

The crossover on the run route might have been safe, but cyclists crossing the path of other cyclists on the way into the castle certainly wasn't.

Ceepo · 26-05-2015 6:08pm

peter kern wrote: »

I would think so too, theyhad been aware of them before the race and made it clear to stay to the left of buoys , so there is a god chance one buoy moved, it just means they have to be a bit more careful to fix the buoys better.

For the Gentelman complaining about his prime.
I would ask him how much he thinks he will get if he wins the 70.3 relay
I will answers that for him and it will be absolutely nada and not even a 50% discount for next years entry. Lough cultra actually had the 2nd highest prize purse of any triathlon In ireland in 2015 not that far off 70.3 Dublin .

I don't think that to compare a race that gives out nada is something to aspire to.
Imo they should at least get something to the value of the entry.

While they might have a good prize fund they also have that fund split up between a lot of races. Winning one of the races wouldn't be to far away from parity with some stand alone races.

tunney · 26-05-2015 6:15pm

Ceepo wrote: »

I don't think that to compare a race that gives out nada is something to aspire to.
Imo they should at least get something to the value of the entry.

While they might have a good prize fund they also have that fund split up between a lot of races. Winning one of the races wouldn't be to far away from parity with some stand alone races.

Relay.............................

Ceepo · 26-05-2015 6:52pm

tunney wrote: »

Relay.............................

?

zico10 · 26-05-2015 8:47pm

peter kern wrote: »

triathlon is not a sport in a controlled environment so some people will always have small advantages and disatvantgaes. sometimes you get a good group in the swim sometimes you dont etc .

That's not a fair comparison. Organisers have no control over packs forming in the swim, but they most definitely have control over the course layout. It doesn't matter if it's the 1st guy held up or the 101st, in so far as is possible, they're both fully entitled to race under the exact same conditions.

and i dodnt really think you can say you have not goinaed those 5 seconds you lost, being around other cyclists on the course. so you lost 10 seconds and maybe won 1 min somewhere else ... while kevin T was in another zipp code and really the only thing we should think about is to close the gap to kevin rather than complaining aoubt 10 seconds when we are 10 min behind....

I dont think I was complaining. I merely stated a fact, I was held up because of the course layout.
I don't want to discuss my own performance here, but seeing as you commented on it; The way the cycle went for me, I don't see how I gained anything from any other cyclists on the course.
And I know exactly where I stand in relation to Kevin Thornton.

peter kern · 27-05-2015 1:34pm

Ceepo wrote: »

I don't think that to compare a race that gives out nada is something to aspire to.
Imo they should at least get something to the value of the entry.

While they might have a good prize fund they also have that fund split up between a lot of races. Winning one of the races wouldn't be to far away from parity with some stand alone races.

the gountlet half had a very good prize purse , only for dublin 70.3 and the lost sheep would you get more money if you make it top 3 in any tri in ireland. ( actually only winning the lost sheep would get you more money 2nd and third i think would be equal )

re age group prices as long as trevor woods and matt malloy win races at the age of 45 plus I do not think we need them ... but again this is my opnion and i do understand if other people think differently but realisitcally 5 year age groups are a bit of a joke as we see people winning races between the age of 16 and 46.
it would almost make more sense to have catogoryies like no kid 1 kid and 3 plus kids ( the only problem matt has 3 kids ....trevor 1)

peter kern · 27-05-2015 6:35pm

That's not a fair comparison. Organisers have no control over packs forming in the swim, but they most definitely have control over the course layout. It doesn't matter if it's the 1st guy held up or the 101st, in so far as is possible, they're both fully entitled to race under the exact same conditions

i am not sure why this is not a fair comparasion, what iam getting at is that race dynamics have a bigger impact than waiting 5 seconds on a road.

I think you probably vastly understimate how difficult it is to organice a race and even dublin 70.3 with some high level backing behind the sceans could not get the course it wants.... often course design is not only in the hands of the race organiser.( and as i was told in the 70 .3 thread Irish people apear to be the biggest whinner when it comes to races and most people complain if a road gets closed ,( i think it was tunney who said it ) so often you have to make compromises.

btw i do agree with you that this crossing back into transiton is something that could be improved on. Despite the fact that do think this has a minor impact on a race.

iAcesHigh · 03-06-2015 2:22pm

Here is my review of the race. Hope you'll like it and sorry translation lasted so long this time, mostly Croatian and English version go out at the same time ...

Goran - Lough Cutra blog review

Dilbert75 · 03-06-2015 6:51pm

Nice read Goran!

Lough Cutra 24th May 2015

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