Three to buy O2 Ireland for €780 million

cgarvey · 05-02-2014 12:01pm

sawdoubters wrote: »

expect phone bills to go up 20 euro month

How so?

watty · 05-02-2014 2:10pm

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

What are the real issues? Your statement is quite ambiguous.

Proper Regulation: It's rubbish.
Decent Efficient use of Spectrum: One properly regulated Wholesale only operator for masts & base stations. Everyone else resellers with their own "back office" routers, servers etc.

Unlike making Crisps or Baked Beans having "Competition" by splitting up the spectrum is daft. The Spectrum unlike space to build factories is too limited to split up at all. The Regulators want to maximise licence revenue from spectrum which is daft too. The single properly regulated Wholesale mast/Base station operator should get it free. The Government income then is from normal taxes on the retail services.

So the wrong assumptions are used at the start. A single Spectrum operator would result in less congestion and more speed (up to x3 or maybe x4 better in some locations).

The Cush · 10-02-2014 9:38am

From yesterday's Sunday Business Post

Meetings planned with Eircom and Vodafone

Three Ireland is to hold a series of closed door meetings with industry rivals Eircom and Vodafone, as it attempts to assuage European competition concerns over its proposed €850 million takeover of O2.

The telecoms company is hoping to agree terms with its rivals about a package of potential remedies designed to overcome fears in Brussels that the deal would lessen competition here.

and EC officials

Three Ireland will also hold bilateral meetings with European Commission officials, who will in turn liaise with interested Irish stakeholders, including rivals operators, communication regulator Comreg and the Competition Authority.

Agreement with other operators is key

The company has privately acknowledged that securing the agreement of Vodafone and Eircom, which owns the Meteor mobile network, is key to easing compeptition concerns.

watty · 10-02-2014 11:00am

Except "competition" has been made into an Idol, a god as if it's the only issue. Look at UK trains and Energy market. Or our Energy Market.

"competition" needs to be looked at in a total context of competence, effective use of resources, real improvements of national infrastructure, quality and capacity to consumers and not purely price. Even on Price it's not actually true that more competitors actually reduces price to Consumer. Also even if competition does result in lower prices it's often eventually at cost of lack of investment (sometimes in other areas e.g. fixed Broadband vs Mobile Internet) and reduced customer support and quality.
Today Voice prices are too high, SMS far too high and both are subsidising Data and there is not universal coverage. How will any decision either way affect this?

Fixed Phone, Electricity and Postal delivery are services with Universal Service obligation. Broadband and Mobole are as important as Phone and Post. Why no USO? Also fixed lines are about 66% or less and Mobile Phones about 110%.

There could be joint USO implemented with Roaming enforced by Comreg and Law. Each operator could then agree particular unserviced geographic areas with Comreg (why create another quango?). This avoids wasteful duplication and shares the burden of USO to all rather than the case with fixed line phones where burden is purely on Eircom.

The next step would be 100% spectrum & site sharing which on average will reduce dropped or blocked calls/data connections to a 1/3rd.

So this whole process is nearly irrelevant. The "ignoring Elephant in room" syndrome.

The Cush · 24-02-2014 6:04pm

Sunday Indo article - http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/decision-time-for-eu-on-3-irelands-780m-bid-for-o2-30033113.html

The European Commission is holding its final oral hearings this week on whether to allow the mobile takeover.
...
Vodafone, which would see its large lead in the Irish market narrowed if the deal went through, will argue against the takeover on Tuesday.

Eircom, which has offered qualified support for the takeover, will also outline concerns over network sharing and 4G spectrum allocation.

UPC, which could harbour hopes of bidding for O2 Ireland or 3 Ireland if the takeover fails, has declined to comment about its plans to testify against the acquisition in front of the Commission.

Senior Irish telecoms executives think the Commission, which is due to issue a verdict on the takeover bid by March 24, has hardened its position on the core issue of reducing the number of operators here from four to three.

Three Ireland could exit the Irish market if the takeover fails

If the takeover does not proceed, it raises the prospect of 3-owner Hutchinson Whampoa seeking to exit the Irish market. That would leave any potential buyer facing the prospect of turning the operator around.

The departure of Hutchinson Whampoa would also be bad news for Irish industry at a time when money is still scarce. The Hong Kong-based company has been a significant investor in infrastructure projects in other countries where it operates.
...
For its part, Hutchison Whampoa is expected to argue that it cannot justify further investment in its loss-making Irish network if the deal fails to go through. The operator is currently losing €50m per year in Ireland, having spent over €1bn since its launch a decade years ago. The operator has struggled to win market share, gaining just 8 per cent in that time.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-02-2014 7:44pm

The Cush wrote: »

Three Ireland could exit the Irish market if the takeover fails

For its part, Hutchison Whampoa is expected to argue that it cannot justify further investment in its loss-making Irish network if the deal fails to go through. The operator is currently losing €50m per year in Ireland, having spent over €1bn since its launch a decade years ago. The operator has struggled to win market share, gaining just 8 per cent in that time.

hmmm...

If they stay they'll need to make up that €1Bn out of phone charges

relative to that what's the down side if they go ?

Mr. G · 25-02-2014 12:58am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

hmmm...

If they stay they'll need to make up that €1Bn out of phone charges

relative to that what's the down side if they go ?

NBS?

Potentially it could cause a lack of competition in the market, meaning higher prices unless there is Government intervention in the oligopolistic industry. It would be an interesting move for UPC, although there is not much profits in the mobile industry I would imagine.

watty · 25-02-2014 10:25am

There are a lot of profits in Mobile. On voice and SMS. Three has sold Data packages practically below cost and with Caps too large and not had enough voice customers. This is a double whammy of giving less income and far worse network performance due to too high a percentage of data users, too many of which are mis-sold "Mobile Internet" as "Fixed Broadband" thus being on line longer than "real" Mobile users.

Three did this to try and build Market Share.

I can't see how buying O2 will really fix this unless they plan to have 2G data cap and at least double Data Packages.

The Cush · 25-02-2014 11:36pm

Report on today's hearing in Brussels

Hutchison's Three Ireland is prepared to sell radio spectrum and continue a network sharing deal with a rival in order to win EU approval of its $1 billion (600 million pounds) bid for Telefonica's O2 Ireland, a source familiar with the matter said on Tuesday.

...

"Hutchison will offer to sell spectrum to MVNOs (mobile virtual network operators) and guarantee to keep in place a network sharing agreement with eircom," the source told Reuters, adding that Hutchison would submit its offer to the European Commission within two weeks.

...

Hutchison confirmed it has not offered any concessions to regulators up to now.

"We haven't put any remedies forward; whatever is being said is speculative. Hutchison has said that it is very happy to produce strong remedies as it wants a positive outcome as soon as possible," said company spokesman Neil McMillan.

The company set out the case for allowing its 02 Ireland deal before senior Commission officials and national competition officials at a closed door hearing on Tuesday.

Executives from eircom, Vodafone, Tesco Ireland, which runs a virtual mobile network in Ireland, cable operator Liberty Global and BT Communications Ireland also attended the session.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/02/25/uk-hutchison-telefonica-eu-idUKBREA1O1DL20140225

EU to take a hardline approach to the 3 Ireland takeover of O2 following the lessons learned from Three Austria's purchase of Orange Austria and the failure to increase competition in that market

The European Union’s failure to stoke competition when Hutchison Whampoa Ltd. bought a rival Austrian unit should be a warning for EU probes into other telecommunications deals by Hutchison and Telefonica SA, said the head of the nation’s antitrust authority.

Prices surged after EU watchdogs waved through Hutchison’s purchase of wireless carrier Orange Austria even after regulators imposed conditions aimed at mitigating the effect of losing one of the nation’s four operators. The EU should heed that lesson as it examines two deals that would also knock out a competitor

...

Ireland’s and Germany’s telecommunication regulators, the Commission for Communications Regulation and the Federal Network Agency, inquired about Austria’s experience with the merger, Gungl said. The two agencies were curious about the RTR’s dealings with the European Commission and also wanted to know what Austria would do differently in another takeover decision, he said.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-02-25/hutchison-austria-seen-as-lesson-for-eu-in-e-plus-o2-probes

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/technology/hutchison-ready-to-sell-spectrum-to-get-o2-ireland-1.1705503
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0226/506800-o2-three-europe/

clohamon · 26-02-2014 10:39pm

The Cush wrote: »

Sunday Indo article - http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/decision-time-for-eu-on-3-irelands-780m-bid-for-o2-30033113.html

Three Ireland could exit the Irish market if the takeover fails

If the takeover does not proceed, it raises the prospect of 3-owner Hutchinson Whampoa seeking to exit the Irish market. That would leave any potential buyer facing the prospect of turning the operator around.

The departure of Hutchinson Whampoa would also be bad news for Irish industry at a time when money is still scarce. The Hong Kong-based company has been a significant investor in infrastructure projects in other countries where it operates.
...

Anybody know what a small, slightly used network is worth?

watty · 26-02-2014 11:48pm

The departure of Hutchinson Whampoa would also be bad news for Irish industry at a time when money is still scarce. The Hong Kong-based company has been a significant investor in infrastructure projects in other countries where it operates.

But not really here as they were in breach of licence for NOT rolling out prior to NBS. The subsequent roll out was mostly financed by Irish Gov. and EU using money intended for Broadband. (NBS). Not one Broadband connection ever supplied. Their aggressive mis-selling of Mobile as Broadband I believe has inhibited investment in Fixed Broadband, especially Rural FWALA.

So has someone decided that four operators is the minimum? I hope not. But it's surely not the only basis to block the O2 takeover?

The Cush · 06-03-2014 1:23am

Irish Times article from earlier this week - http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/technology/cantillon-eircom-sits-on-the-ransom-strip-for-the-proposed-three-o2-merger-1.1711430

It has become increasingly obvious that Three and its parent Hutchison Whampoa will not get its €850 million offer for O2 past European regulators unless Eircom gives its imprimatur. Eircom’s approval is its ransom strip.

And, boy, is the former state incumbent determined to wring as much as it can out of the deal.

...

European regulators are now stalling on approving the deal because of nervousness over reducing network operators from four to three.

Three's concession to Eircom

Objections from Vodafone, the long-time market leader, carry far less weight then objections from Eircom/Meteor, which would be much more likely to be disenfranchised by a merger of O2/Three. So what has it got so far?

Three has told the commission it is prepared to guarantee Meteor the continuance of a network-share deal to keep its costs down.

It has also floated the idea of transferring some of O2/Three’s valuable spectrum to Meteor, and the word is that it will do this for free.

There was even talk recently that Three had considered a cash payment to Meteor for its approval, although sources on all sides privately deny this.

Together with its commitment to offer cheap network access deals to new operators, all this means that the total cost to Hutchison of acquiring O2 could nudge towards €1 billion.

The Cush · 06-03-2014 1:44am

This from Reuters yesterday afternoon - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/05/uk-hutchison-telefonica-eu-idUKBREA241II20140305

The European Commission confirmed yesterday that Hutchison Whampoa has offered concessions for its bid for 02 and also extended the decision deadline to May 19th.

(Reuters) - Hutchison Whampoa has offered concessions to counter European Union regulatory concerns about its proposed $1 billion (597 million pounds) bid for Telefonica's 02 Ireland unit, the European Commission said on Wednesday.

Hong Kong-based conglomerate Hutchison, controlled by Asia's richest man Li Ka-shing, is seeking to boost its position in Europe via a series of acquisitions.

Its latest takeover offer however has fuelled regulatory worries that the deal, which reduces the number of mobile telephony operators from four to three in Ireland, may lead to higher consumer prices.

Hutchison offered concessions on Tuesday, European Commission spokesman for competition policy, Antoine Colombani, said, adding that the deadline for a decision on whether to clear the deal or not had been extended until May 19.

A Hutchison spokesman declined to comment.

Hutchison is prepared to sell radio spectrum and continue a network sharing agreement with rival eircom's subsidiary Meteor, the third biggest operator in Ireland, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters last month.

Vodafone is the market leader in Ireland.

The Commission's decision is expected to show how tough it will be on a much bigger telecoms deal in Germany where Telefonica Deutschland wants to buy KPN's E-Plus unit for 8.6 billion euros.

clohamon · 06-03-2014 10:04am

I can't see how any of the mentioned remedies protect customers. It's more like racketeering.

bealtine · 06-03-2014 10:55am

clohamon wrote: »

I can't see how any of the mentioned remedies protect customers. It's more like racketeering.

Racketeering is a rather dirty word but rather apt really.

The EU Commission (or indeed any regulator) is not interested in consumers at all they are just consumers of services with very few rights, the job of the regulators is to make sure that companies are doing well at the expense of consumers and as long as consumers can pay all is good in the world

watty · 06-03-2014 7:24pm

I think the EU commission cares slightly more than Ofcom or Comreg though.
But they are all examining the wrong issues.

The Cush · 21-03-2014 9:53am

3 Ireland offers help to set up new operator in bid to buy 02 - Irish Independent

Three proposes new network operator in O2 takeover - Irish Times

Three Ireland has proposed assisting the set up of a brand new mobile network operator as part of a last-ditch bid to smooth the passage of its €850 million takeover of O2 Ireland past European competition regulators.

The European Commission yesterday asked Three’s market rivals in Ireland for their views on its final set of competition remedies, which were submitted by Three to the commission on Monday.

The proposed remedies were also sent for comment yesterday to communications regulator Comreg and government officials, in a process known as “market testing”.

The commission has expressed concern about the takeover because it would reduce by one the number of network operators in Ireland, which stands at four.

In the package of remedies, Three says it will initially offer a mobile network virtual operator (MVNO) to a new market entrant. It is believed to already have an agreement in place with cable operator UPC for an MVNO, which is where a new player piggybacks on the network of an existing operator. UPC would bundle mobile services into its television and broadband packages.

In an effort to address the commission’s concerns, Three has suggested it will offer a “glide path” to the new MVNO to help it become a fully-fledged network operator.

The MVNO would be offered the option of acquiring a ready-made customer base of between 50,000 and 75,000 users from the merged O2-Three entity. It is believed many of these would be drawn from O2’s existing MVNO, called 48.

Three has proposed that it would also transfer a certain amount of digital spectrum to the MVNO, if the new operator chose to become a fully fledged network business.

It would also offer the new operator a network-sharing arrangement in urban areas and a national roaming deal on Three’s network.

clohamon · 21-03-2014 11:38am

The Cush wrote: »

In an effort to address the commission’s concerns, Three has suggested it will offer a “glide path” to the new MVNO to help it become a fully-fledged network operator.

Nothing new here; this contingent agreement with UPC was already in place. There's nothing to suggest that UPC wants to become a 'fully fledged' MNO.

The proposed remedies were also sent for comment yesterday to communications regulator Comreg and government officials, in a process known as “market testing”.

That's almost a definition of the opposite.

The Cush · 21-03-2014 11:47am

Three has proposed that it would also transfer a certain amount of digital spectrum to the MVNO, if the new operator chose to become a fully fledged network business.

I assume if the MVNO decides not to become a full network operator Three keeps the spectrum under their proposal, win win

bealtine · 21-03-2014 8:06pm

The Cush wrote: »

I assume if the MVNO decides not to become a full network operator Three keeps the spectrum under their proposal, win win

win win for 3...lose lose for consumers

The Cush · 05-04-2014 12:04am

THE European Union has paused its review of Hutchison Whampoa's bid to buy O2 Ireland as the regulator seeks revisions to concessions the company made to win approval for the tie-up.

3 Ireland owner Hutchison and the EU agreed on a short suspension to allow the company to work on changes to the company's offer and for the European Commission to examine them, 3 Ireland said in a statement.

The EU previously had a May 19 deadline to make a final decision on the deal. "The clock was stopped yesterday until we obtain the information we requested from the parties," Antoine Colombani, a spokesman for the European Commission, said in an email.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/in-business-30154003.html

EU regulators stop clock on review of Hutchison, 02 Ireland deal - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/uk-hutchison-telefonica-eu-idUKBREA321HT20140403

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cfm?proc_code=2_M_6992

Deadline suspended under Article 11(3) from 01.04.2014
Commitments submitted in N/2 on 03.03.2014

clohamon · 05-04-2014 10:09am

Sources with knowledge of the case said the company is prepared to cede spectrum and customers to a smaller rival for free and to continue a network sharing agreement with competitor eircom's subsidiary Meteor, the third biggest operator in Ireland.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/uk-hutchison-telefonica-eu-idUKBREA321HT20140403

How do they choose the customers?

The Cush · 10-04-2014 10:43am

Hutchison 3G gets €780m cash injection for O2 takeover bid

Hutchison 3G's Irish arm has received a €780m cash injection from a newly-formed UK group as it tries to push its planned takeover of O2's operations here over the line. Hutchison 3G has offered to pay €780m for the business.

New filings at the Companies Office show that Hutchison 3G Ireland received €780m within the past three weeks from newly-registered UK firm Hutchison 3G Ireland Holdings.

The transaction was completed on March 24 – just days after 3 Ireland pledged to establish a new mobile operator in an effort to persuade the European Commission to allow it to buy O2 Ireland, which is owned by Spain's Telefonica group.

...

The filings with the Companies Office indicate that London-based Hutchison 3G Ireland Holdings subscribed to 780 million shares in Hutchison 3G Ireland, paying €780m for the shares, which were allotted on March 24. The UK firm was only established in February.

The UK firm's shareholder is Luxembourg-based Hutchison 3G Ireland Investments. Accounts for the Luxembourg firm for 2012 reveal it had outstanding loans paid to an affiliate undertaking amounting to €920.6m at the end of that year. The facilities expire in 2032.

Banjoxed · 10-04-2014 10:44am

If I'm saddled with bloody Three or shunted to bloody expensive Meteor again then I will seek ways to extract myself from the contract. Escalate that query.

RangeR · 10-04-2014 11:21am

clohamon wrote: »

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/uk-hutchison-telefonica-eu-idUKBREA321HT20140403

How do they choose the customers?

It will probably be Three's entire customer base. Isn't this rumoured to be in the region of 20,000?

The Cush · 25-04-2014 1:12am

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ec-to-decide-on-o2-deal-by-june-30212590.html

EUROPEAN Commission decisions on Hutchison Whampao's bid for O2 Ireland, as well as Telefonica's plan to merge its German unit with KPN's E-Plus, should come by mid-June, EU competition chief Joaquin Almunia has said.

EU competition authorities have received concessions in both deals and finished market tests for the Hutchison review, Commissioner Almunia told reporters in Marrakesh.

The EU had previously indicated that a decision on the O2 deal here would be made by the end of May. Regulators have suspended that deadline to seek more information.

daithi7 · 26-04-2014 11:06am

watty wrote: »

Yes, it's bad (but not for the reasons that Comreg might suggest), be better the other way round. O2 was owned by a Spanish telecom company with a clue. Three is owned by Hutchinson Whampoa (Hong Kong) who out source almost everything, main support for all countries in India and their only Telecom expertise is selling contracts. Their "3G repeaters" for NBS should have been illegal and their supply of Satellite services particularly inept.

There is Irish expertise to make sensible Engineering decisions, but Three are unlikely to employ it.

Three's strategy of pricing, data caps and marketing of 3G/HSPA data is unsustainable.

But Comreg's only judgement of fitness to hold a 3G licence seems to be paying the fee. Have they ever either had decent licence conditions or properly enforced the conditions that do exist?

The DCENR, or dept of Post & Telegraphs or whatever tf they were called at the time, did a great job under, Lowry of selling the first set of spectrum. That has been severely condemned under a hideously ex pensive tribunal of enquiry already and is the subject of court proceedings that could cost the exchequer an absolute fortune in damages & costs by the beaten consortia bidders.

Meanwhile DOB has deployed the capital he garnered largely because of that bent process wisely in other such transparent regimes such as Jamaica, Haiti, etc. Tipperary North still return Michael Lowry to the dail and the broke, banana republic that is Ireland shuffles on lamely with a Dail full of over paid, over secure, windbag teachers, who can go back to their state backed job, while agreeing to overpaying civil servants by over 40% versus their private sector peers , and granting them (selves) gold plated pensions that Ireland simply cannot afford.

In that context, 3 taking over O2, is small beans in a country that needs a route & branch reform, and had just missed a once in a generation opportunity to make it happen. The troika left saying our civil &, public services, our legal services and our health services were all not fit for purpose. That's still the case.

The Cush · 06-05-2014 9:14pm

From Bloomberg News today - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-06/liberty-global-said-to-pave-way-for-hutchison-s-o2-irish-deal.html

Liberty Global's UPC unit is poised to offer mobile phone services in Ireland, according to two people familiar with a transaction that may pave the way for Hutchison Whampoa to win European Union approval to take over Telefonica's O2 Ireland unit.

UPC would add mobile phone services to its existing Irish Internet and cable services, taking up an offer of network access from Hutchison, the people said on condition of anonymity because the offer isn’t public. This would involve UPC initially becoming a so-called mobile virtual network operator piggybacking on Hutchison’s network. UPC could move toward running its own infrastructure in the country within three years, they said.

...

Anna-Maria Barry, a spokeswoman for UPC Ireland, declined to comment, as did Hutchison.

European Commission's provisional deadline for the decision on the merger is now 20th June - http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cfm?proc_code=2_M_6992

watty · 07-05-2014 6:53pm

I wonder what Tesco thinks.

clohamon · 07-05-2014 9:11pm

UPC would add mobile phone services to its existing Irish Internet and cable services, taking up an offer of network access from Hutchison, the people said on condition of anonymity because the offer isn’t public.

According to the Irish Times, UPC had been in negotiations with Three since Nov 2011.

This would involve UPC initially becoming a so-called mobile virtual network operator piggybacking on Hutchison’s network. UPC could move toward running its own infrastructure in the country within three years, they said.

AFAIK UPC do not run a fully fledged MNO anywhere else. So either they think that they can run an MNO more efficiently than O2, Three or Vodafone or they don’t expect the MVNO deal to work out?

Instead of buying a functioning MNO themselves - complete with technical divisions, UPC will be buying some spectrum, and then, apparently, Three will teach them how to run a mobile network - hello? That’s Three btw, who have thrown €1bn at a their Irish operation since 2005 and not made a cent of profit .

Then look at it from Three's point of view. Apparently, they are going to help UPC - a competitor with no customers - to develop a mobile network so as to acquire more customers. Some of those customers will be customers of Three, and the more diligently Three assist UPC, the more its customers that will be move to UPC.

Is anyone else finding the UPC - MNO story hard to believe?

watty · 07-05-2014 9:33pm

UPC has been dreaming of Quadplay since maybe 2007 or earlier? So the idea that UPC would be an MVNO isn't implausible

Tesco uses O2, but has own back end gear. In UK with success of Hudl (why none in Limerick but two shelves of useless DAB junk?) they are launching their own high end Android phone and a Hudl-2.

They presumably thus have some interest in what is happening (or not) to O2. If I was Tesco or UPC I'd not be happy about Three. They have shown ability to sell Data Contracts and PAYG, by selling at a loss, poor ability to sell voice and made a mess out of outsourcing their engineering. They do ZERO engineering. Virtually every 3G repeater that they have installed is inappropriate and they have had the most visibly misleading marketing of Mobile Data of all Mobile operators in Ireland.

So what skill and expertise are Three bringing. All they appear to have is the Hong Kong "parents" willingness to spend money. They know nothing about running anything other than retail.

The Cush · 07-05-2014 9:58pm

clohamon wrote: »

Is anyone else finding the UPC - MNO story hard to believe?

Initially yes, but looking at Liberty Global's Q1 results announced yesterday they have quiet a lot of mobile subscribers already.

They recently launched mobile services via their UPC Cablecom network in Switzerland as a "full-MVNO" on the Orange mobile network. All together Liberty Global has over 4m mobile subscribers spread across Europe and Chile at the end of March.

This from their Q1 2014 results press release

We’re also making significant progress on the wireless front, with the recent launch of mobile services in Switzerland, the introduction of new and improved quad-play offers in the U.K and the expansion of our WiFi-spots in Belgium and the Netherlands to over 1.5 million locations. Building on this momentum, we expect to continue to launch MVNO and WiFi services in more markets throughout our footprint, which will further enhance the customer experience.”

http://www.libertyglobal.com/pdf/press-release/LG-Earnings-Release-Q1-14-FINAL.pdf

12 months after the EC make their decision on the merger, Jul 2015, Comreg's Time-Slice 2 mobile spectrum allocations kicks-in, this could be a natural point where the EC requires spectrum to be sold off to a new operator like UPC.

clohamon · 07-05-2014 10:11pm

watty wrote: »

UPC has been dreaming of Quadplay since maybe 2007 or earlier? So the idea that UPC would be an MVNO isn't implausible

MVNO I can understand, but MNO looks mad. They have no quad-play bundle to sell outside their urban areas.

Its not clear which spectrum they would be getting or whether the original coverage obligations would transfer with the purchased spectrum. That's 85% of population for the 3g licence and 70% of population for the liberalised-use licence.

bk · 08-05-2014 3:49am

I would be surprised if UPC became a full MNO, but they might become something a bit more then a traditional MVNO.

AFAIK At the moment a traditional MVNO like Tesco Mobile, rents capacity on o2's spectrum, towers and fibre/P2P backhaul network, but has their own gear from the network center on.

UPC has their own large and very deep fibre network in urban areas, so they could run the fibre to the Three towers, thus eliminating that cost and just renting the spectrum and tower access.

Think of it more as a LLU operator rather then a bit-stream operator.

Also UPC seem to have big plans for their wifree service, that could help take a lot of the data load off the 3/4G networks and onto their cable network instead. Chine Mobile were able to move 80% of their data from 3/4G to wifi by doing the same.

bealtine · 08-05-2014 11:30pm

Well their "no comment" is more telling than it looks really I wonder if they could just do "urban areas" much like their cable system and not bother with rural areas or just have them as an "after thought"

bealtine · 16-05-2014 4:17pm

EU regulators set to clear Hutchison, O2 Ireland deal

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0516/617858-o2-ireland-deal/

The Cush · 16-05-2014 10:00pm

bealtine wrote: »

EU regulators set to clear Hutchison, O2 Ireland deal

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2014/0516/617858-o2-ireland-deal/

This from Reuters - http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/16/us-hutchison-wham-telefonica-eu-idUSBREA4F0F820140516

The Cush · 24-05-2014 8:00am

Hutchison Whampoa will win European Union approval to take over Telefonica’s O2 Ireland unit as soon as May 28 after a key EU panel backed the deal, according to two people familiar with transaction.

Officials from the EU’s national competition authorities met this week and gave their support to the European Commission’s plans to approve the deal, said the people who couldn’t be identified because the EU approval process isn’t public. National regulators’ decision, which isn’t binding, paves the way for the European Commission to grant final approval at its next meeting on Wednesday, the people said.

Liberty Global Plc’s UPC unit is poised to provide mobile phone services in Ireland, taking up Hutchison’s offer of network access that sought to allay EU regulatory concerns, two people said earlier this month. Hutchison’s concessions are designed to overcoming EU objections to the combination of two of Ireland’s four mobile operators.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-23/hutchison-said-to-win-eu-approval-for-o2-irish-deal-next-week.html

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/eu-poised-to-give-three-green-light-for-o2-takeover-30300034.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/technology/hutchison-s-acquisition-of-o2-may-be-given-go-ahead-next-week-1.1806507
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/hutchison-set-for-o2-ireland-takeover-269748.html

An Irish Times article says the mobile deal concessions are a face-saving ploy, UPC will buy 50,000 customer accounts and have the option in future to become a full mobile network operator but this may never happen

What is already apparent is that some of the concessions made by Hutchison since it lodged its original set of remedies are just meaningless items of window dressing, and are designed solely for the commission to save face.

The commission’s main concern all along about the takeover was that it cut the number of mobile network operators in the State from four to three. This seemingly illogical stance totally ignored the fact that Ireland’s tiny mobile market has only ever supported three network operators. 3 Ireland has never made a red cent – the market never supported the number four player. The deep pockets of its Hong Kong parent Hutchison did that.

Hutchison originally offered to open up 3’s infrastructure to an MVNO network-piggybacking arrangement for cable operator UPC. This wasn’t enough for the commission, because an MVNO is not a network operator.

So, to mollify the commission, an option for a silly “glide path” to potentially turn the UPC MVNO into a full network operator – by selling it spectrum – was tacked on to the plan.

To make it sound plausible, it was agreed UPC would buy a ready-made customer base of about 50,000 accounts from O2.

This concession was meaningless. UPC does not want to be a mobile network operator. The “glide path” option will never be taken up by UPC, and everyone knows it. The cable operator only wants some form of mobile offering so it can bundle it with its TV and broadband services.

But it allows the commission to point to the possibility the number of Irish network operators could potentially grow from three to four again in the future. An Irish solution to a European problem.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/technology/mobile-deal-concessions-a-face-saving-ploy-1.1807237

clohamon · 24-05-2014 9:14am

Pretty much spot-on by the Irish Times, except...

To make it sound plausible, it was agreed UPC would buy a ready-made customer base of about 50,000 accounts from O2.

I can't see how they can just dump 50,000 customers without their permission.

Still no news on the Vodafone/Three network agreement.
Still no news on whether the NBS masts must be retained.

SpaceTime · 25-05-2014 2:10am

Easy: Three Ireland's existing customer base (perhaps bill pay only) gets sold to UPC and Hutichson concerns itself with the more lucrative O2 customer base which is more business and high spend oriented.

As Three and O2's customer bases are totally separate, there wouldn't be a major issue doing this.

AlmightyCushion · 25-05-2014 3:11am

clohamon wrote: »

Pretty much spot-on by the Irish Times, except...

I can't see how they can just dump 50,000 customers without their permission.

Still no news on the Vodafone/Three network agreement.
Still no news on whether the NBS masts must be retained.

It's happened before. Didn't Vodafone buy BT's customer base a few years back. As long as the terms of their contract are kept the same, it won't affect customers.

watty · 25-05-2014 10:33am

Also TalkTalk in Ireland.

This is another example of why the "competition" Mantra distorts Regulatory decisions and it's less appropriate to anything with a fixed small amount of resource than say Milk, Tyres or Baked Beans production, or services such as Insurance, Pensions, Mortgages, Credit Cards.

clohamon · 25-05-2014 4:37pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It's happened before. Didn't Vodafone buy BT's customer base a few years back. As long as the terms of their contract are kept the same, it won't affect customers.

There’s about 4,900,000 mobile subscriptions excluding ‘broadband-only’ subs. Three have 6.2% of them at Q4 2012 - that’s 304,000 subs

If Three are only offloading 50,000 then they will be hanging onto most of their customers, so the question remains - how do they choose the lucky/unlucky ones?

AFAIR the Vodafone BT thing was when BT had decided to exit the retail market altogether, so there was no question of choosing between customers.

Heraldoffreeent · 25-05-2014 4:45pm

clohamon wrote: »

There’s about 4,900,000 mobile subscriptions excluding ‘broadband-only’ subs. Three have 6.2% of them at Q4 2012 - that’s 304,000 subs

If Three are only offloading 50,000 then they will be hanging onto most of their customers, so the question remains - how do they choose the lucky/unlucky ones?

AFAIR the Vodafone BT thing was when BT had decided to exit the retail market altogether, so there was no question of choosing between customers.

According to the article quoted above, It's 50,000 O2 customers that will be flogged to UPC. in that scenario, I'd imagune they'll look for readymade, easy to dislodge customers. The telefonica MVNO base 48months looks the most likely. I'm not sure if they have that many subscribers, but that plus some low performing PAYG customers would be my guess.

SpaceTime · 25-05-2014 5:10pm

They might flog 48 Go Conquer or whatever it's called.

I'd say they've about 50,000 subs?

It'd be a poor strategic fit for UPC though who would want multiplay / triple play customers i.e. bill pay people mostly to work with their cable, telephony and broadband offerings.

They're also a youth market focused brand, which again doesn't fit UPC's profile which would mostly be householders.

I can't really see UPC wanting primarily prepay.

They could hive off a group of people on one particular bill pay plan too. Nothing to prevent them doing that. So, perhaps 50,000 people on some unlimited package or something get sold to UPC?

I'd suspect they'll try to off load less profitable Three bill pay customers.

If I were them I'd do this:

1) Offload some aspect of Three Ireland to UPC.
2) Get rid of 48 months and merge it back into the general prepay package. Its just an advertising overhead and unnecessary sub brand. I find the whole brand totally confusing.
3) Try and leverage the O2 brand as much as possible for as long as they can get away with it as Three has a very limited reputation in the business market.

It would be fantastic though (for me) if UPC Mobile offered cheap/free roaming on UPC NL and Telenet in Belgium.

Heraldoffreeent · 25-05-2014 6:49pm

I don't think either Three or UPC really care about the 50K users. What I've heard from some of the interested parties is that UPC are happy for the deal to go over the line.
UPC and Three have been negotiating the MVNO agreement since early 2012 and UPC have no intention of becoming an MNO in any shape or form in Ireland as its too small a market and the cost of deploying an anyway decent network relative to that is too high.

As for the quadplay proposition, well yes they do want to offer that, but what they really want to do is add 30-50 euro per month to as many bills as they can as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible, thats the bottom line. The fact that this kind of offering also protects their base from Eircom and Voda is also part of their stratagy.

The EU stuff is just window dressing to get the deal done.

bealtine · 27-05-2014 9:31am

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

As for the quadplay proposition, well yes they do want to offer that, but what they really want to do is add 30-50 euro per month to as many bills as they can as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible, thats the bottom line. The fact that this kind of offering also protects their base from Eircom and Voda is also part of their stratagy.

The EU stuff is just window dressing to get the deal done.

Sounds about right to me...

SpaceTime · 27-05-2014 2:15pm

Three will do whatever they have to to push this over the line, there's no question about that.

UPC would be mad not to look for a lot of freebees

bealtine · 28-05-2014 11:16am

Deal seems to be cleared by the EU now
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-387_en.htm

clohamon · 28-05-2014 12:09pm

bealtine wrote: »

Deal seems to be cleared by the EU now
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-387_en.htm

Silo'd bandwidth (lower speeds) and reduced coverage. It's a useless decision.

The Commission seems to think reduced coverage in rural areas is a good thing - more 'efficient' they say - i.e. more profitable for networks.

The Commission found that the merger would have brought limited efficiencies in relation to broadband access in isolated rural areas of Ireland where Three - currently the beneficiary of the National Broadband Scheme - may have decommissioned some loss-making sites upon expiry of the scheme. However, it is clear that such limited efficiencies could not counter the harm that consumers would suffer from the elimination of the retail competition between Three and O2 and the reduction in overall competitive pressure on the Irish mobile telecoms market.

Three to buy O2 Ireland for €780 million

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