When will the general public reach the stage 4 of denial?

Zubeneschamali · 18-03-2019 11:31am

lafors wrote: »

Exactly, anyway why is it a fight?

It's not a fight - most people don't care and will buy electric cars when they are better than ICE cars for the money.

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 1:06pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's not a fight - most people don't care and will buy electric cars when they are better than ICE cars for the money.

Which they won't be for the forseeable future...if ever!

As nobody can address the issue of charging without a garden i won't even mention it.

Squatter · 19-03-2019 1:08pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

As nobody can address the issue of charging without a garden i won't even mention it.

Meh, you just lug the car battery into the house and charge it in your hallway. No big deal!

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 1:10pm

Squatter wrote: »

Meh, you just lug the car battery into the house and charge it in your hallway. No big deal!

No..no..some as-yet-unknown-agency is going to rig up streetlamps so you can power your battery car off of that

All gonna be ready by next year!

ELM327 · 19-03-2019 1:29pm

Old diesel wrote: »

He is saying there are costs to how we do things now.

But part of the answer of Cork to Dublin long term is actually very good public transport offerings.

You need to consider things like whether 53 people on a coach is better for emissions vs all 53 people been in a car.

A good modern coach could do 12 mpg - using 13.3 gallons.

If 53 people all individually use 64 mpg car it would add up to 132 gallons.

Edit - based on a 160 mile journey

The more fuel you use also increases your emissions..

But if you consider a standard bus load factor is nowhere near 100% it skews the figures back to reality. I'd say over a full day the average load factor is below 50%. And of those, the majority are on free travel passes so wouldnt be driving anyway.

Zenith74 · 19-03-2019 1:36pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

No..no..some as-yet-unknown-agency is going to rig up streetlamps so you can power your battery car off of that

This has already been done at scale in the likes of Holland, and particularly cold places like Canada have block-heater sockets at every parking spot. This is a solved problem and while it hasn’t been decided who will do it, it’s not unknowable, it could easily be the Public Lighting divisions of Councils in some form of PPP, could be eCars, could be a purely private company.

You can certainly argue it won’t be done by next year, but to imply it cannot be done or we don’t know how it would be done is simply incorrect.

Gumbo · 19-03-2019 1:40pm

Zenith74 wrote: »

This has already been done at scale in the likes of Holland, and particularly cold places like Canada have block-heater sockets at every parking spot. This is a solved problem and while it hasn’t been decided who will do it, it’s not unknowable, it could easily be the Public Lighting divisions of Councils in some form of PPP, could be eCars, could be a purely private company.

You can certainly argue it won’t be done by next year, but to imply it cannot be done or we don’t know how it would be done is simply incorrect.

Added to the fact that it is already in a trial period with DLRCC and Fingal County Council.

ethernet · 19-03-2019 1:45pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

No..no..some as-yet-unknown-agency is going to rig up streetlamps so you can power your battery car off of that

All gonna be ready by next year!

I know you're scoffing at this but it's already happening - especially in London: https://www.ubitricity.co.uk/

Johnnyhpipe · 19-03-2019 1:47pm

I dont think there’s any denial. I’d buy one - but won’t until there’s more charge points and a nissan leaf doesn’t cost the same as a new 3 series!

Gumbo · 19-03-2019 1:57pm

Johnnyhpipe wrote: »

I’d buy one - but won’t until there’s more charge points !

But you shouldn't need the charge points for your daily use.
If the range of a car now, doesn't suit your daily needs then you shouldn't by an EV.

But, you shouldn't buy an EV based on charge points as these will be more expensive than charging at home. You should be driving, then charging over night at home.

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 2:05pm

ethernet wrote: »

I know you're scoffing at this but it's already happening - especially in London: https://www.ubitricity.co.uk/

This isn't London.

If you think irish local authorities have the time or money for this sort of nonsense you're mistaken.

The only way this can happen is with private-sector investment and there arent many companies investing in battery car "technology".

There is parking for 200+ cars where i work and there were 2 EV charge points which have since been removed because nobody was using them.

ethernet · 19-03-2019 2:19pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

This isn't London.

If you think irish local authorities have the time or money for this sort of nonsense you're mistaken.

The only way this can happen is with private-sector investment and there arent many companies investing in battery car "technology".

There is parking for 200+ cars where i work and there were 2 EV charge points which have since been removed because nobody was using them.

I know it isn't - just giving you an example of such a private sector investment. We already have a private EV charging company in the market here so I would expect to see this branch out into on-street solutions as EV adoption grows.

Nice anecdote. I'll give you a contrasting one. There's strong demand for chargers where I work - with people calling out nearby employers who already have charger. But it's just that, an anecdote. Sales figures tell the real story.

Gumbo · 19-03-2019 2:21pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

This isn't London.

If you think irish local authorities have the time or money for this sort of nonsense you're mistaken.

The only way this can happen is with private-sector investment and there arent many companies investing in battery car "technology".

There is parking for 200+ cars where i work and there were 2 EV charge points which have since been removed because nobody was using them.

Why not look at the 2 trials currently going on in Swords and Dun Laoghaire, which wont suit your attitude, but I can guarantee you, are in Ireland.

Old diesel · 19-03-2019 2:26pm

ELM327 wrote: »

But if you consider a standard bus load factor is nowhere near 100% it skews the figures back to reality. I'd say over a full day the average load factor is below 50%. And of those, the majority are on free travel passes so wouldnt be driving anyway.

That's how it is now.

But the days of sitting into a diesel Passat by yourself for a trip from Cork to Dublin are unlikely to survive moves to more sustainability in the longer term.

In years to come driving the Passat from Cork to Dublin could actually be seen as unacceptable as smoking in publIc spaces.

Clearly public transport has to improve drastically.

ELM327 · 19-03-2019 2:36pm

But what replaces it? Don't say public transport because we are a convenience based society and people pay for the convenience of having an idle car 99% of the time to have the convenience of on demand use.

Old diesel · 19-03-2019 2:58pm

ELM327 wrote: »

But what replaces it? Don't say public transport because we are a convenience based society and people pay for the convenience of having an idle car 99% of the time to have the convenience of on demand use.

Society is going to have to change to more sustainable models in order to address climate change.

The fact public transport is currently crap isn't to say that we can insist indefinitely that we can be entitled to drive up and down the motorway in a diesel with one occupant.

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 3:02pm

kceire wrote: »

Why not look at the 2 trials currently going on in Swords and Dun Laoghaire, which wont suit your attitude, but I can guarantee you, are in Ireland.

Trials,shmials..they will be deemed to be unworkable,expensive,useless or whatever and the plans will be shelved.

People here are talking about EVs being the future yet you can't charge the bloody things...they're going to fail!

Old diesel · 19-03-2019 3:05pm

If you are going to have personal transport Dublin to Cork in the future the likely way forward is that your 300 mile future EV will be used for the journey and you will have proper charging infrastructure to support your use of the vehicle.

I'm talking of the future as in say 10 years time - not next week.

Old diesel · 19-03-2019 3:09pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Trials,shmials..they will be deemed to be unworkable,expensive,useless or whatever and the plans will be shelved.

People here are talking about EVs being the future yet you can't charge the bloody things...they're going to fail!

The point is the technology to support EV use for drivers is ALREADY available AND evolving every year.

The technology ALREADY gives you the potential to do on street charging.

EVs are not perfect but they have a future.

ELM327 · 19-03-2019 3:12pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Society is going to have to change to more sustainable models in order to address climate change.

The fact public transport is currently crap isn't to say that we can insist indefinitely that we can be entitled to drive up and down the motorway in a diesel with one occupant.

Personal mobility has been one of the great advances of society, from the 60's to now.
People will not step back from this, nor should they.
I don't think most people cares what powers their individual transport, moreso that it exists and that any mooted replacement should improve upon and not be worse than the current tech.

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 3:13pm

Old diesel wrote: »

If you are going to have personal transport Dublin to Cork in the future the likely way forward is that your 300 mile future EV will be used for the journey and you will have proper charging infrastructure to support your use of the vehicle.

I'm talking of the future as in say 10 years time - not next week.

No,no..we have a prediction from a poster on here claiming it will all be ready to go within 12 months.

I suppose if you parted with 30k for a battery on wheels you would try to ameliorate your stupidity by making baseless predictions.

Still none of the EV faithful have managed to answer my question about charging if you live in an apartment although some seem to think they can plug into a lampost and away they go..it'd be funny if people weren't so deluded.

BarryD2 · 19-03-2019 3:14pm

Tell me where all this electricity is going to come from and at what cost and then I'll start believing..

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 3:20pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Tell me where all this electricity is going to come from and at what cost and then I'll start believing..

From burning dirty fossil fuel,the same as now.

Only with all the EVs trundling around they'll have to burn MORE fossil fuel not less to meet the extra demand...Even the "green" credentials on these things don't stack up.

AndrewJRenko · 19-03-2019 3:24pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

As nobody can address the issue of charging without a garden i won't even mention it.

Maybe we need to move to the Japanese model, where you need to prove that you have access to private parking before you can buy a car.

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 3:33pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Maybe we need to move to the Japanese model, where you need to prove that you have access to private parking before you can buy a car.

Lol.

Very green and not even slightly discriminatory.

Old diesel · 19-03-2019 3:36pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Personal mobility has been one of the great advances of society, from the 60's to now.
People will not step back from this, nor should they.
I don't think most people cares what powers their individual transport, moreso that it exists and that any mooted replacement should improve upon and not be worse than the current tech.

Addressing climate change will force us all to make difficult decisions.

So for example farmers will have to reduce beef and dairy production.

I dont know what the future holds - but that's how I see it playing out.

How we live etc will evolve as we move to a lower carbon economy. The reasons we do a Cork to Dublin journey in a diesel car alone will need to be studied.

ethernet · 19-03-2019 4:01pm

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Still none of the EV faithful have managed to answer my question about charging if you live in an apartment although some seem to think they can plug into a lampost and away they go..it'd be funny if people weren't so deluded.

That's just one emerging solution. It's a bit like electrification at the beginning - it was mostly for lighting. Want to use an electric iron? Plug it into the lamp connector in your home. Seems crazy now in hindsight.

A good few people had EVs where I last lived - mixture of terraced housing and apartments without assigned parking. I saw them charging at the local SCP from time to time - maybe in conjunction with work charging.

Other people in apartments have managed to get chargers installed and connected to their apt/house electrical meter. There are solutions.

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 4:06pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Addressing climate change will force us all to make difficult decisions.

So for example farmers will have to reduce beef and dairy production.

I dont know what the future holds - but that's how I see it playing out.

How we live etc will evolve as we move to a lower carbon economy. The reasons we do a Cork to Dublin journey in a diesel car alone will need to be studied.

Are you an eco-fascist or something?

How about we don't HAVE TO address anything because Climate change has been proven to be nothing but a load of hot air (ahem).

ELM327 · 19-03-2019 4:16pm

There's no "have to" in this.
People will not change to some duracell powered funny shaped go kart or public sweatbox when they have a nice personal car outside.

Other than ecomentalists no one on this thread or anywhere has posed a viable workable alternative to private transport

The Enbalmer · 19-03-2019 4:20pm

ELM327 wrote: »

There's no "have to" in this.
People will not change to some duracell powered funny shaped go kart or public sweatbox when they have a nice personal car outside.

Other than ecomentalists no one on this thread or anywhere has posed a viable workable alternative to private transport

Spot on friend.

It's the same libertarian rent-a-mob that think that bitcoin will replace normal currency because they have skin in the game.

This nonsense was tried before,remember the Sinclair C5?.."The future of transport"...yeah it was the future of crappy ideas alright and it ended up making anybody who bought one look like an idiot.

When will the general public reach the stage 4 of denial?

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