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faster boarding procedure

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    #32
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    L1011 wrote: »
    And in a quite significant number of flights (has Gold Circle at the time) I never saw it be anything other than an utter mess.

    EI never implemented anything as structured, or as controlled, as the KLM model.

    EI would call for a large range of numbers (up to 54 PAX at a time), and then immediately ignore it. I saw it happen for plenty of flights as well, and could see exactly how it was set to fail from the start due to poor implementation.

    Much as how they often now ignore people using the priority boarding or AerClub lines now.

    Half-arsed, unenforced measures have a strange tendency to fail.


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    #33
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    blackwhite wrote: »
    EI never implemented anything as structured, or as controlled, as the KLM model.

    EI would call for a large range of numbers (up to 54 PAX at a time), and then immediately ignore it. I saw it happen for plenty of flights as well, and could see exactly how it was set to fail from the start due to poor implementation.

    Much as how they often now ignore people using the priority boarding or AerClub lines now.

    Half-arsed, unenforced measures have a strange tendency to fail.

    Window/middle/aisle is going to have up to 70 in a group

    Seriously, this will not work in DUB without lanes and there is no space for lanes. When you can't hyper-control boarding it's shown that complete random boarding is as fast as anything else.

    If you really need to cut boarding times, bring back free hold luggage


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    #34
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,155 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    blackwhite wrote: »
    EI never implemented anything as structured, or as controlled, as the KLM model.

    EI would call for a large range of numbers (up to 54 PAX at a time), and then immediately ignore it. I saw it happen for plenty of flights as well, and could see exactly how it was set to fail from the start due to poor implementation.

    Much as how they often now ignore people using the priority boarding or AerClub lines now.

    Half-arsed, unenforced measures have a strange tendency to fail.
    EI found the priority followed by general boarding is the fastest method, this was also demonstrated in the video as being one of the faster methods.
    It also removes the arguments about who’s bag fits inside the the cabin and who’s doesn’t. If you board by groups, those in the last group won’t have bag space, I recall the boarding groups were assigned based on seat row number. Now it’s more simple, a voluntary gate bag announcement is made, then AerClub/Priority are called, followed by general boarding and locker space is first come first serve until it’s gone.
    This also entices the purchase of priority boarding, an additional revenue stream for the airline


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    #35
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,155 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    L1011 wrote: »
    If you really need to cut boarding times, bring back free hold luggage

    This


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    #36
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    L1011 wrote: »
    Window/middle/aisle is going to have up to 70 in a group

    Seriously, this will not work in DUB without lanes and there is no space for lanes. When you can't hyper-control boarding it's shown that complete random boarding is as fast as anything else.

    If you really need to cut boarding times, bring back free hold luggage

    Did you read the detail of what KLM did. It wasn't grouping, it was issuing individual boarding order numbers to passengers as they arrived at the gate, with instructions to take a seat until their number was called on the screen.

    When "Now Boarding" shows number 1, it also stated for 2/3/4 (can't remember how many, but was certainly no more than 5 numbers at a time) to "prepare to board". Numbers were in sequential order, with a couple of gaps for no-shows.

    Worked smoothly and very efficiently, because it was very clear that you weren't getting through until your number was called, and so everyone stayed put until their number was getting close. A few "hoverers" waiting for their number, but no scrum at the gate and nobody trying to board out of turn


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    #37
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,848 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It’s not practical I think.. while it can be proven to work in a scenario of 180 single, mobile and efficient not hard of thinking people...

    You have the anomaly’s of families with small kids who need help, oaps or people with a mobility issue who need assistance etc..idiots etc... it’s something when thought about works ok if every passenger is a fit, healthy and mobile but the mixtures of client and so on, I can’t see it being practical.


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    #38
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    How much extra manpower does they require and how do you differentiate who is arriving at what gate without Schiphols now gone corrals at each gate?

    Won't work in DUB. Can't.


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    #39
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    trellheim wrote: »
    very selective thinking and is welded to jetways as a concept. FR board like a shot with priority boarding, combing the queue in advance, no jetways, front and back boarding

    put a jetway in and it slows down tremendously
    My recent experience of Ryanair's boarding skills went like this: aircraft not yet on stand but pax called for boarding, priority boarding first, so everyone stands up and queues. The aircraft arrives a few minutes later and parks and soon begins to unload. After about a minute, the queue is allowed to descend the stairs, until the entire stairwell is full. Pax are getting off the aircraft at the usual pace, but roadworks on the ramp are making life difficult, as people have to snake around between barriers, and avoid getting killed by vehicles. So, ten or so minutes go by and people start complaining about being stood in the stairwell. two of them are on crutches and are feeling the pain of standing on a stairs. They are given a stiff ignoring by staff. Another few minutes pass and we are then streamed out to the aircraft but confusion immediately reigns because people get into the wrong queue or go in the wrong direction around the roadworks and have to be picked out and sent to the rear of the aircraft, in the middle of all the hassle of the repair work to the ramp, vehicles and ramp workers not withstanding. The queue for the front of the aircraft is tightly packed into a steel meshed walk way because of the large hole in the ramp and then a gob****e of a tug driver decides to swing a towbar around at shin height, scattering people until he is accosted by one of his own supervisors. Thereafter, boarding goes quickly but there are several delays getting airborne (ATC, not Ryanair) and we get away...not FR's finest day on the ramp.


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    #40
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    L1011 wrote: »
    How much extra manpower does they require and how do you differentiate who is arriving at what gate without Schiphols now gone corrals at each gate?

    Won't work in DUB. Can't.

    There were no corrals at the gate where they did it. Plenty of signs explaining you needed to scan pass at one of 2/3 machines to get a ticket. I think it was 2 staff manning the gates to monitor


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    #41
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,155 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    My recent experience of Ryanair's boarding skills went like this: aircraft not yet on stand but pax called for boarding, priority boarding first, so everyone stands up and queues. The aircraft arrives a few minutes later and parks and soon begins to unload. After about a minute, the queue is allowed to descend the stairs, until the entire stairwell is full. Pax are getting off the aircraft at the usual pace, but roadworks on the ramp are making life difficult, as people have to snake around between barriers, and avoid getting killed by vehicles. So, ten or so minutes go by and people start complaining about being stood in the stairwell. two of them are on crutches and are feeling the pain of standing on a stairs. They are given a stiff ignoring by staff. Another few minutes pass and we are then streamed out to the aircraft but confusion immediately reigns because people get into the wrong queue or go in the wrong direction around the roadworks and have to be picked out and sent to the rear of the aircraft, in the middle of all the hassle of the repair work to the ramp, vehicles and ramp workers not withstanding. The queue for the front of the aircraft is tightly packed into a steel meshed walk way because of the large hole in the ramp and then a gob****e of a tug driver decides to swing a towbar around at shin height, scattering people until he is accosted by one of his own supervisors. Thereafter, boarding goes quickly but there are several delays getting airborne (ATC, not Ryanair) and we get away...not FR's finest day on the ramp.

    Ahh the classic “hurry up and wait” method. Probably one of the worst things about flying Ryanair


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    #42
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I had Flightradar on the other day while sitting in the lounge in Cork waiting to fly to Budapest. The incoming flight was on the way. "Go To Gate" comes up and people scatter in all directions... on Flightradar the plane was still over Wales.


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    #43
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I had Flightradar on the other day while sitting in the lounge in Cork waiting to fly to Budapest. The incoming flight was on the way. "Go To Gate" comes up and people scatter in all directions... on Flightradar the plane was still over Wales.

    Yeah but it makes sense to have people there ready to board rather than buying duty free, eating, drinking pints.
    If not you'd end up waiting for these eejits.
    Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


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    #44
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    I will continue doing my bit to help by waiting a distance from the departure gate but in view and then boarding near last while putting my carry on baggage at my feet while seated. You're welcome!


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    #45
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,155 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    rivegauche wrote: »
    I will continue doing my bit to help by waiting a distance from the departure gate but in view and then boarding near last while putting my carry on baggage at my feet while seated. You're welcome!

    I do this, but many people don’t have baggage that can fit under the seat hence the delays


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    #46
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Locker10a wrote: »
    I do this, but many people don’t have baggage that can fit under the seat hence the delays

    Its understandable queing if you have a large carry-on that has to go in the overhead bin. But its the people with no carry-on luggage, or just small backpacks, that queue for 30min to board that always amaze me on EI/FR flights. They're really surprisingly common.

    I can never figure out the thinking that they'd prefer to stand in line queing, to then spend longer in the cramped economy seat, instead of sitting in a (relatively) comfortable seat near the gate.


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    #47
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    United used to board this way but they seem have ditched it sometime in 2017.


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    #48
    Kev11491
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Kev11491


    Flew from CPH to FRA last week and they had the new boarding. It was still a bit messy and genuinely couldn't tell if it was faster.


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    #49
    Board Walker
    Registered Users Posts: 770 ✭✭✭Board Walker


    Loaded front to back in Dublin last week and Boarding took almost a hour.

    Loaded back to front in JFK at the weekend and took half the time as expected. Its not rocket science


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    #50
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,113 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Interesting thread and good observations however........... doomed to failure certainly at DUB.

    Why Bren ...whoooy?

    The Irish ‘mucker’ lads that’s whoooy.

    You know the type, usually in a group goin over for the Liverpewell gayam or Arsenal.

    Ramble up from the bar to the gate following about 6 final calls, three of them usually have left their wallets/passports/boarding passes/ rucksacks in the bar.One fella has gone for a piss and is now headed for the wrong boarding area, another three NOW decide it’s time for a piss, and the auld “Aaah take yer time Jem, Dey can’t go without us”

    “Where’s Billy lads ,he has my boarding card”

    Lookit.... ask the lad who works out there.... they will tell you that scenario is not fantasy.

    Won’t work with Pat... make no mistake there.


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