Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-07-2019 9:00pm #1

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48829298

Hong Kong protesters rioters storm government
building and raise British colonial flag in sign of defiance

Its the handover anniversary. During British colonization Hong Kong enjoyed considerably more freedom than mainland china. Even now they still do. If this was mainland china there would be no protests. They are protesting the extradition of people from Hong Kong to China among other things.

The chinese govt say its to extradite criminals protesters say it will be used as a tool of control against protesters etc. Right not Hong Kongese criminals stay in Hong Kong.

The chinese don't understand it. And there is difference between Catonese speaking people in Hong Kong and Chinese mandarin speakers.
For example any Cantonese person I have asked will always say their language is it's own separate language.

Any Chinese person I ask will say it's a dialect of mandarin. It's somewhat mutually intelligible to native speakers with some difficulty.

It's almost like a political difference in perception between them.

In Hong Kong people still have a lot more freedom and access to non state news sources.

In china their internet has 'The Great Fire Wall'. If you want to access FB in China you need a VPN.

In contrast, Hong Kong enjoys unfettered access to the Internet without the need for a VPN.

Thus they have access to very different sources of info.

WeChat is the most popular messaging app in Hong Kong, and Western social media sites and apps like Facebook, Gmail, Instagram and Snapchat are also widespread.

There are also other cultural differences.

Gatling · 01-07-2019 9:05pm

Sooner or later the Chinese government will take action and impose strict control over Hong Kong at some stage they won't let these types of protests to continue ,

Personally I'd like to see how far people are willing to take this my fear is military rule being introduced on the citizens of Hong Kong

ILoveYourVibes · 01-07-2019 9:08pm

Gatling wrote: »

Sooner or later the Chinese government will take action and impose strict control over Hong Kong at some stage they won't let these types of protests to continue ,

Personally I'd like to see how far people are willing to take this my fear is military rule being introduced on the citizens of Hong Kong

Me too.

Jimbob1977 · 01-07-2019 9:08pm

The British days are over. They are not returning.

Hong Kong needs to realise that it is in China now.

Harsh, but true

Kimsang · 01-07-2019 9:10pm

We used to act from a higher morale high-ground, but how can we now; after allowing what happened to Assange to come to pass.

China needs Hong Kong though, they are their capitalist middleman. China would not have nearly the economy it does without Hong Kong.

1/3 Hong Kongese took to the streets recently. What a show of democracy! I only wish other democracies showed support also, if only in spirit.

What gets me though, this was all coming in 30 years anyway, the official full handover. It doesn't make much sense for China to act this way, to expediate what will happen anyway, Hong Kong already has suffered drop in investment.

Gatling · 01-07-2019 9:11pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The British days are over. They are not returning.

Hong Kong needs to realise that it is in China now.

Harsh, but true

Independence may be an option but the Chinese government will never entertain it ,not without massive bloodshed

ILoveYourVibes · 01-07-2019 9:15pm

Its also making people worried about Macau. Portugal’s colony of Macau reverted to Chinese control in 1999.

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/hong-kong-protests-stir-questions-macau

Macau is also 'a special autonomous region' like Hong Kong. Life is better there. More freedoms still.

'So the one country two systems ' applied and applies to them too.

Xi Jinpin is still stressing 'one country two systems' though.

I don't think China ever understood Hong Kong or the Hong Kongese.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-07-2019 9:16pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The British days are over. They are not returning.

Hong Kong needs to realise that it is in China now.

Harsh, but true

They won't stop fighting for their political freedoms.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-07-2019 9:16pm

Kimsang wrote: »

We used to act from a higher morale high-ground, but how can we now; after allowing what happened to Assange to come to pass.

China needs Hong Kong though, they are their capitalist middleman. China would not have nearly the economy it does without Hong Kong.

1/3 Hong Kongese took to the streets recently. What a show of democracy! I only wish other democracies showed support also, if only in spirit.

What gets me though, this was all coming in 30 years anyway, the official full handover. It doesn't make much sense for China to act this way, to expediate what will happen anyway, Hong Kong already has suffered drop in investment.

I think people in Macau will follow.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-07-2019 9:20pm

Kimsang wrote: »

We used to act from a higher morale high-ground, but how can we now; after allowing what happened to Assange to come to pass.

China needs Hong Kong though, they are their capitalist middleman. China would not have nearly the economy it does without Hong Kong.

1/3 Hong Kongese took to the streets recently. What a show of democracy! I only wish other democracies showed support also, if only in spirit.

What gets me though, this was all coming in 30 years anyway, the official full handover. It doesn't make much sense for China to act this way, to expediate what will happen anyway, Hong Kong already has suffered drop in investment.

Its still ahead of shanghai and Beijing economically.

Its floundered under Chinese rule though.

Kimsang · 01-07-2019 9:24pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I think people in Macau will follow.

Well the one-party two-systems was an agreement between the UK and China only about Hong Kong though.

I'd say Taiwan would be more likely to follow suit, since they already consider themselves independent. Its unfortunate the international community won't recognize them as such! Macau has massive income inequality, really just a few wealthy mafia/businesspeople.

My mistake, Portugal had a similar arrangement

Gatling · 01-07-2019 9:29pm

Kimsang wrote: »

Well the one-party two-systems was an agreement between the UK and China only about Hong Kong though.

I'd say Taiwan would be more likely to follow suit, since they already consider themselves independent. Its unfortunate the international community won't recognize them as such!

Most likely out of fear mostly , they have more or less stopped foreign governments or arms companies from selling Taiwan military equipment to make sure they are less than capable of defending themselves ,
They have some decent capabilities but not enough to hold out against China in a medium to long term situation

TheValeyard · 01-07-2019 9:31pm

I'd be protesting too if I was slowly watching my freedoms being eaten by Chinese authorities. That country is still under the iron boot of a repressive authoritarian government in a country where people just disappear and concentration camps still exist.

Sonny noggs · 01-07-2019 9:34pm

None of this is really happening, or so the great firewall would have the people of China believe.

Sonny noggs · 01-07-2019 9:35pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

I'd be protesting too if I was slowly watching my freedoms being eaten by Chinese authorities. That country is still under the iron boot of a repressive authoritarian government in a country where people just disappear and concentration camps still exist.

No social credits for you!

Kimsang · 01-07-2019 9:38pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

I'd be protesting too if I was slowly watching my freedoms being eaten by Chinese authorities. That country is still under the iron boot of a repressive authoritarian government in a country where people just disappear and concentration camps still exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swCf6Z5REwI

Re-education camps!
("Vocational schools for prisoners with what is described as minor offences"- sound familiar?)
("Being forced to embrace communist party propoganda")
We have lost the morale high-ground.

Is there much difference between these re-education camps and the Starbuck's forced re-education of it's employees?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuHmFkbuihc

rossie1977 · 01-07-2019 9:51pm

China won't put the military on the streets in Hong Kong or Macau. That would be a PR disaster aired live around the world that would make the Tiananmen Square protests look like a summer picnic.

This kind of stuff flares up every 2-3 years. China will likely back down and try again down the road.

Kimsang · 01-07-2019 10:10pm

Was just reading this BBC article, this quote was striking;

Once the protesters stormed the legislative council;

Inside, they defaced the emblem of Hong Kong in the central chamber, raised the old British colonial flag, spray-painted messages across the walls, and shattered furniture.

For everyone who argues British colonialists were nothing but bad.... when given the free choice, this is what people choose, when they fully understand each system.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-07-2019 10:20pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The British days are over. They are not returning.

Hong Kong needs to realise that it is in China now.

Harsh, but true

A lot of people couldn't believe they were just abandoned.

Kimsang · 02-07-2019 3:53am

Abandoned is a bit harsh. They honoured previous agreements. Not doing so could have led to war. The initial seizure of Hong Kong was pretty unlawful in the first place(Opium Wars).

I'm not saying I agree they should have "abandoned" it, but it is quite complicated.

ILoveYourVibes · 02-07-2019 2:31pm

Kimsang wrote: »

Abandoned is a bit harsh. They honoured previous agreements. Not doing so could have led to war. The initial seizure of Hong Kong was pretty unlawful in the first place(Opium Wars).

I'm not saying I agree they should have "abandoned" it, but it is quite complicated.

I disagree. I know a family all with British passports from birth who have no right to live in the uk. They have Irish passports know though.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-extradition-britain/hong-kong-residents-with-uk-passports-seek-right-to-live-in-britain-idUSKCN1TT21N

It's pure racism.

Kimsang · 02-07-2019 5:50pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I disagree. I know a family all with British passports from birth who have no right to live in the uk. They have Irish passports know though.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-extradition-britain/hong-kong-residents-with-uk-passports-seek-right-to-live-in-britain-idUSKCN1TT21N

It's pure racism.

But you understand its not the Falklands. The proximity of Hong Kong to China, its lack of military, amount of people, importance as an economic hub... would you honestly expect the UK to engage military with China?

TheValeyard · 02-07-2019 7:03pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

China won't put the military on the streets in Hong Kong or Macau. That would be a PR disaster aired live around the world that would make the Tiananmen Square protests look like a summer picnic.

This kind of stuff flares up every 2-3 years. China will likely back down and try again down the road.

Wait for the international press to get bored and go off to the next big world event, then arrest and re-educate the ringleaders.

ILoveYourVibes · 02-07-2019 8:24pm

Kimsang wrote: »

But you understand its not the Falklands. The proximity of Hong Kong to China, its lack of military, amount of people, importance as an economic hub... would you honestly expect the UK to engage military with China?

No.

But i expect those people who where born there and entitled to british passports because their parents had them to be treated equal to british citizens with british passports elsewhere.

kerrylogan · 29-07-2019 12:56pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In china their internet has 'The Great Fire Wall'. If you want to access FB in China you need a VPN.

In contrast, Hong Kong enjoys unfettered access to the Internet without the need for a VPN.

Thus they have access to very different sources of info.

WeChat is the most popular messaging app in Hong Kong, and Western social media sites and apps like Facebook, Gmail, Instagram and Snapchat are also widespread.

There are also other cultural differences.

The china firewall also blocks the VPN services, there are very few VPN's that actually works in china. ALso the hongkong is getting restricted now, and many china laws are effecting the internet freedom of hong kong people. I have been using hong kong servers of PureVPN, purevpn.com/servers/hongkong-vpn but now they also workssome times.

Gatling · 29-07-2019 1:06pm

Makes you wonder how long the Chinese government will tolerate the current situation before coming down on Hong Kong with an iron fist

Muahahaha · 29-07-2019 2:50pm

Was wondering the same myself, things have really escalated there in the last week since the Triad attacks in the subway station. Hard to know what Beijing will do next, they know the world is watching but at the same time they'll feel under pressure to put a lid on these protests, one of which saw over 2 million people take to the streets.

BlackandGreen · 05-08-2019 11:37am

Can't believe how little coverage this is getting.
Today marks another day of angry clashes and protests between police.

After a few weeks ago when the police and chinese gangsters were found to be colluding to beat so many innocent civilians and protestors seneless and police did nothing about it, the public are furious.
Each weekend that goes by more and more people go to the streets.

Right now as I type this the general strike is happening. The majority of flights are cancelled, all trains are at a standstill, most business and services are shut and people are working from home.

Thousands of people are clashing with police right now. Tear gas and rubber bullets are being fired. However about 20 minutes ago protestors just rushed police lines and pushed them back hurling bricks.

The crosstown harbour tunnel and freeway was just flooded with hundreds of people and the road is now shut down. (again)

Multiple protests are happening all over the city and protestor tactics are getting smarter and I'm not sure how much long police can handle it.

some live streams.

https://www.facebook.com/RTHKVNEWS/videos/717584902003103/
https://www.facebook.com/icablenews/videos/1616869761781560/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ4NZt3HV-U

There's a moratorium on imports of certain objects from China such as helmets, facemasks, etc.

Today Beijing said they're about to announce something new in regards to HK so that is honestly scary.

Worldwide we've seen protests and support from Australia, New Zealand, US, Japan, Canada, UK and many more countries.

Similar scenes of Mainland PRC supporters losing their **** in those countries and attacking the peaceful protests too.
It's a real shame the Irish have had little to nothing to say in regards.
Just the same usually hand wringing and spineless criticisms of anybody who dares stand up to whats wrong.

China is a major threat not only to HK but worldwide.

Elmer Blooker · 05-08-2019 11:59am

protestors just rushed police lines and pushed them back hurling bricks.

The media is calling them 'pro democracy' protesters.
The next time there is a dissident Republican riot in Derry or Belfast we can call it a 'pro democracy' protest.
The tearing down of the flag of China and dumping it in the sea shows that there are provocateurs who are trying to escalate the situation.

BlackandGreen · 05-08-2019 12:07pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The media is calling them 'pro democracy' protesters.
The next time there is a dissident Republican riot in Derry or Belfast we can call it a 'pro democracy' protest.
The tearing down of the flag of China and dumping it in the sea shows that there are provocateurs who are trying to escalate the situation.

Oh get a grip. Their entire culture and way of life has been erroded and destroyed. Years of peaceful attempts of negotiation and political routes have failed.
China is tightening their grip. The current government is has failed them.

This is a very serious crisis, and you have utter eejits like yourself hand wringing ohh they threw a few bricks.

Hong Kongers have been pushed to the very edge, this is their last resort. They do no want to end up like Tibet, or the Uighurs. Chief executive Carrie Lam has done nothing.

All protests were peaceful, and every time police and triad gangsters were the instigators of violence and attacking/riling up the crows. Have you been pulling the wool over your eyes?

I get the feeling you haven't even once followed the past weeks protests or seen what has happening if you're going to start wagging your finger because waaah they threw a flag in the river.
And comparing dissident republicans to the Hong Kong public is pathetic and a very different situation.

JFC.

Sonny noggs · 05-08-2019 12:10pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The media is calling them 'pro democracy' protesters.
The next time there is a dissident Republican riot in Derry or Belfast we can call it a 'pro democracy' protest.
The tearing down of the flag of China and dumping it in the sea shows that there are provocateurs who are trying to escalate the situation.

This is the sort of post where I like to keep an eye on the Thanks.

BlackandGreen · 05-08-2019 12:16pm

Sonny noggs wrote: »

This is the sort of post where I like to keep an eye on the Thanks.

They're not a new reg or anything so I wouldn't think they're pro PRC shill or anything. But it's such a laughable ignorant response.
Honestly if anything like this happened in Ireland (again). We'd be truly f*cked. So many Irish people are spineless cowards and we'd just be steamrolled.

Gatling · 05-08-2019 12:26pm

Seen a report the other day where the Chinese military were practicing for riot and public order ,
It's likely before long the Chinese government will go full marshal law and mass deploy Chinese military forces to restore order,

We all remember tiananmen square

Sonny noggs · 05-08-2019 12:34pm

Gatling wrote: »

Seen a report the other day where the Chinese military were practicing for riot and public order ,
It's likely before long the Chinese government will go full marshal law and mass deploy Chinese military forces to restore order,

We all remember tiananmen square

Elmer would probably deny that anything newsworthy has ever happened in Tiananmen Square...

Gatling · 05-08-2019 12:36pm

This was released by the Chinese government two days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvilmqJa8Yg

Muahahaha · 05-08-2019 12:39pm

Yeah the statement from Beijing yesterday definitely suggests they are soon to send in the 'Peoples Liberation Army' to liberate Hong Kongers of that pesky democracy they hold dear. The US has been remarkably quiet on all this, if PLA troops storm Hong Kong we could be looking at a massacre far worse than Tianamen, the only thing the Chinese would be worried about is it being caught on camera.

Sonny noggs · 05-08-2019 12:39pm

Subtle. The pole to get in the window was cool though. Think they stole that from an early Seagal movie.

BlackandGreen · 05-08-2019 12:49pm

Gatling wrote: »

This was released by the Chinese government two days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvilmqJa8Yg

I've seen reports from people who live in China that the news regarding the HK crisis is largely censored, but when it is being reported its forcibly being insert as adverts in webservices like tiktok, and depicts protestors as the ones beating police and makes them out to be the bad guys.

No impartial reporting. Just government brainwashing and PLA propaganda videos.

One of the many things HK'ers are protesting against.

Muahahaha · 05-08-2019 1:33pm

That video is incredible at how brazen it is and especially so as it is the Hong Kong garrison of the PLA who released it. They're basically saying look whats coming next to the protesters.

Id also fear that the Chinese have already infiltrated the protest groups to flush out the leaders. They'll be working to disappear them.

gutenberg · 05-08-2019 3:01pm

BlackandGreen wrote: »

I've seen reports from people who live in China that the news regarding the HK crisis is largely censored, but when it is being reported its forcibly being insert as adverts in webservices like tiktok, and depicts protestors as the ones beating police and makes them out to be the bad guys.

No impartial reporting. Just government brainwashing and PLA propaganda videos.

One of the many things HK'ers are protesting against.

I was in China a few weeks ago, and had access to CNN & BBC News in the hotel room. Once any item about HK came on, the screen went black. Only came back on once they had moved on to the next segment. Absolutely terrifying.

Cheerful Spring2 · 05-08-2019 3:13pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah the statement from Beijing yesterday definitely suggests they are soon to send in the 'Peoples Liberation Army' to liberate Hong Kongers of that pesky democracy they hold dear. The US has been remarkably quiet on all this, if PLA troops storm Hong Kong we could be looking at a massacre far worse than Tianamen, the only thing the Chinese would be worried about is it being caught on camera.

Problem is there heavy rioting and the protestors are smashing up the city. China will only tolerate this for so long. Police can't handle the situation. China will declare martial law and then troops will pour in to restore order. Anarchy just today this reported.

Riot police in Hong Kong have fired teargas and rubber bullets on protesters in at least five locations as demonstrators staged a daylong citywide strike during which two cars rammed the crowds.

Officers charged protesters who had occupied roads, surrounded police stations, and staged a rally near government offices on Monday. Police fired multiple rounds of teargas, pepper spray and rubber bullets and had arrested 82 people by the early evening.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/05/hong-kong-riot-police-fire-teargas-at-protesters-as-two-cars-ram-crowds

Gatling · 05-08-2019 3:19pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Problem is there heavy rioting and the protestors are smashing up the city. China will only tolerate this for so long.

But there not smashing up the city unless you're quoting Chinese government sources .
They had a go at a police station to show the Chinese police they weren't afraid

Cheerful Spring2 · 05-08-2019 3:28pm

Gatling wrote: »

But there not smashing up the city unless you're quoting Chinese government sources .
They had a go at a police station to show the Chinese police they weren't afraid

This is not a peaceful protest they are storming government buildings.

Cheerful Spring2 · 05-08-2019 3:33pm

Place gone mental and modern developed city too, imagine getting caught up in this madness?

Gatling · 05-08-2019 3:38pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Place gone mental and modern developed city

Talking sensational posts .

Cop on .

Did you ever think the people of Hong Kong have had enough of Chinese authoritism

ILoveYourVibes · 05-08-2019 3:40pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This is not a peaceful protest they are storming government buildings.

China has huge concentration camps of Uyghers. This is well known in Hong Kong.

BlackandGreen · 05-08-2019 3:44pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This is not a peaceful protest they are storming government buildings.

Sorry, what do you expect them to do? Lie down and let China destroy their city and culture and everything they've known?

This is a direct result of nothing else working. ]
Cop yourself on.

Cheerful Spring2 · 05-08-2019 3:48pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

China has huge concentration camps of Uyghers. This is well known in Hong Kong.

Police in Ireland would not tolerate protestors storming Dáil Éireann and smashing the place up, so don't expect the chinese to just sit back and allow this kind of thing to continue. China is showing restraint so far, but the place is a mess right now and order will need to be restored soon. Cars are ramming protestors right now today, that can't continue. China has to protect both sides from killing each other and its a dangerous situation.

BlackandGreen · 05-08-2019 3:52pm

As has been a regular occurance, several press/journalists were injured by police.
Journalists reacted angrily and formed outside the police station in the last hour angrily demanding answers. One of them was also dragged inside but later released.

A fire has been lit to try and slow the riot polices advances just now but it seems fire brigade is extinguishing it.

Also, much of the protestors have gone home and as we've seen happen during the past assemblies, once the protestors go home, the residents of the neighborhoods have emerged to criticise police and ask them to leave their neighborhood.

Also reminder that the only reason these protests turn violent is because the government has stone walled them. Their right to peaceful assembly is being erroded and collared.
Each and every protest turned messy purely because police show up in mass and rush/trample indiscriminately.

Press, civilians, children, and protestors have been batoned and tear gassed.

This is continuing purely because the government and police are compounding it.

But lets not forget lads...throwing a flag in the river makes you the instigator justifies chinese goons beating you and your civil rights asunder. :rolleyes:

ILoveYourVibes · 05-08-2019 4:10pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Police in Ireland would not tolerate protestors storming Dáil Éireann and smashing the place up, so don't expect the chinese to just sit back and allow this kind of thing to continue. China is showing restraint so far, but the place is a mess right now and order will need to be restored soon. Cars are ramming protestors right now today, that can't continue. China has to protect both sides from killing each other and its a dangerous situation.

Does the Irish govt harvest the organs of the Irish people?

Are you serious? China doesn't protect humans it protects its power. It CRUSHES humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China

They are right to fight. Its beyond what it is possible to live with.

the hukou system
No freedom of association.
Forced abortions.
Labor Camps (TO THIS DAY)
ORGAN HARVESTING.
Political abuse of psychiatry.

They used the organs of members of the Falun Gong sect to sell to transplant tourists.

n 2006 allegations emerged that the vital organs of non-consenting Falun Gong practitioners had been used to supply China's organ tourism industry.[98][110] In 2008, two United Nations Special Rapporteurs reiterated their requests for "the Chinese government to fully explain the allegation of taking vital organs from Falun Gong practitioners and the source of organs for the sudden increase in organ transplants that has been going on in China since the year 2000

Its estimated 60,000 were killed for their organs from 2000 to 2008.

The forced labour of uighurs.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/world/asia/xinjiang-china-forced-labor-camps-uighurs.html

For years and years Hong Kong police have been pushing the boundaries.

They have been using unlawful methods for yrs. They have harassed the falun gong sect for years in hong Kong.

Enough is enough.

Elmer Blooker · 05-08-2019 4:44pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Police in Ireland would not tolerate protestors storming D reann and smashing the place up, so don't expect the chinese to just sit back and allow this kind of thing to continue. China is showing restraint so far, but the place is a mess right now and order will need to be restored soon. Cars are ramming protestors right now today, that can't continue. China has to protect both sides from killing each other and its a dangerous situation.

Reminding me of Kiev February 2014 more and more by the day.
Did you take note of who thanked above post Sonny?

When Ukrainians decided they had enough of putin

I don't think Ukrainians 'decided' anything.

Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

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