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Farm workers wages!

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12357…12

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    #122
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Feckthis wrote: »
    What wage should each get then frazzled?
    And what are their job descriptions?

    A very good question
    Depends from person to person and their drive. Some unqualified may be worth a lot more than qualified person

    I try to be a fair as possible with a review after a few mths.

    It's amazing how some sell themselves as decision makers yet prove to be otherwise.

    Clock watching is the one thing that drives me banannas. I see some putting down an extra 15 mins yet when finished early forget this. There needs to be give and take. I never employ anyone by the hour any more for this reason. Pay them well and drive hard together


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    #123
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,127 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    what about bonus etc for milk quality or is it taken as a given that standards will be met?


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    #124
    stretch film
    Registered Users Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭stretch film


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    A very good question
    Depends from person to person and their drive. Some unqualified may be worth a lot more than qualified person

    I try to be a fair as possible with a review after a few mths.

    It's amazing how some sell themselves as decision makers yet prove to be otherwise.

    Clock watching is the one thing that drives me banannas. I see some putting down an extra 15 mins yet when finished early forget this. There needs to be give and take. I never employ anyone by the hour any more for this reason. Pay them well and drive hard together

    How do you manoeuvre things to suit, max working hours requirements


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    #125
    Kevin the sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭Kevin the sheep


    whelan2 wrote: »
    what about bonus etc for milk quality or is it taken as a given that standards will be met?

    Hi I'm reading this tread with interest as in thinking of leavening my current employer I'm with him six years milk 100cows Going to 130 Finishes all produce from these cows also has a lot of crops I have missed two days from been sick in the six years and I work 6 days a week from half7 to half 6 I would consider myself a trust-wordy person hard working and will work on my own initiative like he went to France for six months a few years back had farm relief every second weekend there is no food provided which I don't mind like my own space during my break I get €10.80 an hour including holiday pay (don't get payed when take time off) but we agreed on this at time wasn't sure what I was agreeing to but anyway I started on €10 six years ago then went to €10.50 then USC came and I went back down to €10 then my holiday pay came in which baught me to €10.40 and got rise in Feb which baught me to €10.80 I have no formal agri qualifications and have a family at home to support and I'm only a workman noting else so I can be replaced I don't have travel cost (only 7min away) his setup is top notch new machinery new parlour good houses easy to work in my point is more to do with responsibility I have and my wages in relation to this I could liraly go a week without seeing him (when he's on the country) and I have full run of the place should I be getting more or does this sound about right sorry that €10.80 is in hand he does all tax stuff


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    #126
    AP2014
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭AP2014


    Kevin the sheep wrote: »
    Hi I'm reading this tread with interest as in thinking of leavening my current employer I'm with him six years milk 100cows Going to 130 Finishes all produce from these cows also has a lot of crops I have missed two days from been sick in the six years and I work 6 days a week from half7 to half 6 I would consider myself a trust-wordy person hard working and will work on my own initiative like he went to France for six months a few years back had farm relief every second weekend there is no food provided which I don't mind like my own space during my break I get €10.80 an hour including holiday pay (don't get payed when take time off) but we agreed on this at time wasn't sure what I was agreeing to but anyway I started on €10 six years ago then went to €10.50 then USC came and I went back down to €10 then my holiday pay came in which baught me to €10.40 and got rise in Feb which baught me to €10.80 I have no formal agri qualifications and have a family at home to support and I'm only a workman noting else so I can be replaced I don't have travel cost (only 7min away) his setup is top notch new machinery new parlour good houses easy to work in my point is more to do with responsibility I have and my wages in relation to this I could liraly go a week without seeing him (when he's on the country) and I have full run of the place should I be getting more or does this sound about right sorry that €10.80 is in hand he does all tax stuff

    Jaysus thats around 37k for 66 hrs a week. I would look for another job and spend some time with the family.


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    #127
    Feckthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Feckthis


    Kevin the sheep wrote: »
    Hi I'm reading this tread with interest as in thinking of leavening my current employer I'm with him six years milk 100cows Going to 130 Finishes all produce from these cows also has a lot of crops I have missed two days from been sick in the six years and I work 6 days a week from half7 to half 6 I would consider myself a trust-wordy person hard working and will work on my own initiative like he went to France for six months a few years back had farm relief every second weekend there is no food provided which I don't mind like my own space during my break I get €10.80 an hour including holiday pay (don't get payed when take time off) but we agreed on this at time wasn't sure what I was agreeing to but anyway I started on €10 six years ago then went to €10.50 then USC came and I went back down to €10 then my holiday pay came in which baught me to €10.40 and got rise in Feb which baught me to €10.80 I have no formal agri qualifications and have a family at home to support and I'm only a workman noting else so I can be replaced I don't have travel cost (only 7min away) his setup is top notch new machinery new parlour good houses easy to work in my point is more to do with responsibility I have and my wages in relation to this I could liraly go a week without seeing him (when he's on the country) and I have full run of the place should I be getting more or does this sound about right sorry that €10.80 is in hand he does all tax stuff

    Sounds like your boss has the life. Your working a lot of hours but your coming out with a nice wage all the same. but no time to spend it. do you do any of the paper work?


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    #128
    Count Mondego
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭Count Mondego


    AP2014 wrote: »
    Jaysus thats around 37k for 66 hrs a week. I would look for another job and spend some time with the family.

    That's 37K in the hand after tax, equvi to around 65K Gross.


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    #129
    AP2014
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭AP2014


    Count Mondego wrote: »
    That's 37K in the hand after tax, equvi to around 65K Gross.

    After 6 years he is on 10.80. In 6 yrs he has been sick 2 days. He works 6 days a week a 11 hrs a day. I think he deserves it and more!


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    #130
    Count Mondego
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭Count Mondego


    AP2014 wrote: »
    After 6 years he is on 10.80. In 6 yrs he has been sick 2 days. He works 6 days a week a 11 hrs a day. I think he deserves it and more!

    You should hire him, sure you're the only one here that can afford it :-)

    PS, not saying he doesn't deserve it or more. That's for him to decide.


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    #131
    AP2014
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭AP2014


    Count Mondego wrote: »
    You should hire him, sure you're the only one here that can afford it :-)

    Ha if I could I would and give him a decently hourly rate and not work him into the ground. Sounds like a model employee. Not good hrs for a family man.

    Money is money. Your health is your wealth.


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    #132
    Kevin the sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭Kevin the sheep


    Feckthis wrote: »
    Sounds like your boss has the life. Your working a lot of hours but your coming out with a nice wage all the same. but no time to spend it. do you do any of the paper work?


    No none of that end just put heats in on computer and whatever dose/antibiotics are given


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    #133
    Kevin the sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭Kevin the sheep


    AP2014 wrote: »
    After 6 years he is on 10.80. In 6 yrs he has been sick 2 days. He works 6 days a week a 11 hrs a day. I think he deserves it and more!

    Sorry get 1.30 for break and lunch unpaid and few hours off on Sunday I'm workin in middle of day


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    #134
    Damo810
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Damo810


    whelan2 wrote: »
    think alot of young people dont want to do the work now adays

    Indeed. In college with plenty of them and I never hear the end of how they'd love to get jobs while in college, none go and look for it though. Have been in two places since I moved, one was €5/hr, 'breakfast' (Cup of tea) and dinner provided. Dinners hour was not accounted for. Second place is 10/hr, dinner provided and like the first place not accounted for. Two completely different places. More than happy with 10/hr. Pays for the week in college.


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    #135
    Damo810
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭Damo810


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Lads. Is it a farm worker, manager or decision maker ye're employing. That what decided pay rate

    Just cause a lad went to UCD and did a course doesn't entitle them to a big wedge. They must prove themselves on the ground

    Would rather have someone with experience over a piece of paper. Theres lads in college who can't back an 8X5 trailer. What would they be like spreading fert, or with a 2000 Gallon tanker behind them?

    Another had never seen a crush head gate, had no idea how to open it. They'll all get a degree, what use would they be on farms though.


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    #136
    Deepsouthwest
    Registered Users Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭Deepsouthwest


    Kevin the sheep wrote: »
    Sorry get 1.30 for break and lunch unpaid and few hours off on Sunday I'm workin in middle of day

    So you're effectively working seven days a wk?


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    #137
    Miname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Miname


    Kevin the sheep wrote: »
    Hi I'm reading this tread with interest as in thinking of leavening my current employer I'm with him six years milk 100cows Going to 130 Finishes all produce from these cows also has a lot of crops I have missed two days from been sick in the six years and I work 6 days a week from half7 to half 6 I would consider myself a trust-wordy person hard working and will work on my own initiative like he went to France for six months a few years back had farm relief every second weekend there is no food provided which I don't mind like my own space during my break I get €10.80 an hour including holiday pay (don't get payed when take time off) but we agreed on this at time wasn't sure what I was agreeing to but anyway I started on €10 six years ago then went to €10.50 then USC came and I went back down to €10 then my holiday pay came in which baught me to €10.40 and got rise in Feb which baught me to €10.80 I have no formal agri qualifications and have a family at home to support and I'm only a workman noting else so I can be replaced I don't have travel cost (only 7min away) his setup is top notch new machinery new parlour good houses easy to work in my point is more to do with responsibility I have and my wages in relation to this I could liraly go a week without seeing him (when he's on the country) and I have full run of the place should I be getting more or does this sound about right sorry that €10.80 is in hand he does all tax stuff

    Personally id say your doing alright at near 11 take home. Taxes and all the charges run into massive money these days. Its really only your decision whether its enough or not at the end of the day. theres plenty of lads on here will tell you theres far more to be got, how easy are these jobs got when you go looking.


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    #138
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Lads ye tying yourself up in knots over a very simple process.farmer wants help and puts ad in paper.worker answers ad and farmer says this is the job and this is the pay .worker either says ye or neigh and farmer makes up mind wether this lad is worth going after or is their plenty more fish in sea. if worker says yes they work away for a while and then work figures he could be worth more so he says to farmer that he wants this much.this time farmer says yeah or neigh.if yeah all good but he says neigh worker has to mqke up his mind wether to stay or go.dosent matter what anyone else says Its a business deal for both and its up to everyone to look after themselves


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    #139
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,127 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    will there be much of a demand for workers this spring with lower milk price and super levy? Will people we able to afford to take on workers. If I was in Kevin the sheeps position I would make sure I had a long term suitable position in place before moving, better the devil you know and all that.


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    #140
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    Miname wrote: »
    Personally id say your doing alright at near 11 take home. Taxes and all the charges run into massive money these days. Its really only your decision whether its enough or not at the end of the day. theres plenty of lads on here will tell you theres far more to be got, how easy are these jobs got when you go looking.

    Not quite as good as you think it is 10.8 including holiday pay. Minimum holidays are 4 weeks for employees working 1365 hours a week and the 9 public holidays. Again Kevin's employer is disobeying the the max working week average 48 hours over 3 months.

    His holiday pay being included in his rate it is rising his wages by 12%. This bring him back to 9.5/hour. One thing farmers need to be aware of is breaching employment law. In Frazzle case and here both are in breach of employment law re working week. In Kevin's case his employer is also in breach of weekly rest period. He is supposed to have one day off ever week.


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    #141
    Blackgrass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Blackgrass


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    Not quite as good as you think it is 10.8 including holiday pay. Minimum holidays are 4 weeks for employees working 1365 hours a week and the 9 public holidays. Again Kevin's employer is disobeying the the max working week average 48 hours over 3 months.

    His holiday pay being included in his rate it is rising his wages by 12%. This bring him back to 9.5/hour. One thing farmers need to be aware of is breaching employment law. In Frazzle case and here both are in breach of employment law re working week. In Kevin's case his employer is also in breach of weekly rest period. He is supposed to have one day off ever week.
    Agriculture has a deregation, well we do but employee has to sign and agree


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    #142
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    Blackgrass wrote: »
    Agriculture has a deregation, well we do but employee has to sign and agree

    As far as I knwo there is very few derogations to 48 hour week. Ant that I have heard of still have it averaging 48 hours over 6 months and this was pub talk. However there is no derogation to rest periods and it is illegal to pay in lieu of holidays unless worker is being laid off.

    In Kevins his employer may be laying him off for a few months during the winter if so he should pay him with a lump sum in that case as he lays him off


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    #143
    Blackgrass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Blackgrass


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    As far as I knwo there is very few derogations to 48 hour week. Ant that I have heard of still have it averaging 48 hours over 6 months and this was pub talk. However there is no derogation to rest periods and it is illegal to pay in lieu of holidays unless worker is being laid off.

    In Kevins his employer may be laying him off for a few months during the winter if so he should pay him with a lump sum in that case as he lays him off
    I'm not going to say too much as not 100%, but along the lines of what your saying on farm at 'peak times' in our case harvest/planting the workers agree to work 'extra hours' which for full timers balances out over mid winter/summer when slack and temporary harvest staff are different again iirc.
    In the Uk alot of employers(like kevins) want employees to go self emplyeed as less responsibilities to employee then but employee can only earn 'x' amount of income from one source before regarded as full time.


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    #144
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,157 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Blackgrass wrote: »
    In the Uk alot of employers(like kevins) want employees to go self emplyeed as less responsibilities to employee then but employee can only earn 'x' amount of income from one source before regarded as full time.
    That trend is happening here in other industries. Employers no longer want to take on full time employees due to the additional costs of ER PRSI, USC etc, administration of same and the legal entitlement of employees.
    Contract employment is becoming the norm and it is up to the employee to directly sort out their own PAYE affairs.

    Pudsey has made a very valid comment regarding the legal responsibility of the employer to ensure correct working hours etc. One is leaving oneself open to litigation by not adhering to employment laws. I posted a link earlier to the relevant legislation.


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    #145
    Fuxake
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Fuxake


    48 hour working time rules are another reason why I would be dubious about both Kevin and Frazzled situations. As I said in a previous post, tax system here means that 60 hour working weeks are economic insanity. However, 48 hour rule is something to be conscious of. As far as I understand it, 48 hours is average amount of time calculated over 4 month period for most, but for agriculture its six months (to allow for peak season) and it can be 12 months but this would require a written agreement (as part of an employment contract).
    Thing is that it means that employers like Frazz and whoever Kevin's boss is, need to make damn sure that they don't fall out with the employee over something trivial (which in employment is everything short of the employee shooting your missus twice!) because if you end up at an appeals tribunal the employee will almost certainly wipe the floor with you when it emerges that you have been slave driving them for 60 hours a week over a prolonged period.


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    #146
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Waaaay to many employees on this thread and not enough employers.

    I've left Frazzledhome to fight his corner on his own.

    Ye sound awfully like a bunch of Celtic Tiger cubs....


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    #147
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,157 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Waaaay to many employees on this thread and not enough employers.

    I've left Frazzledhome to fight his corner on his own.

    Ye sound awfully like a bunch of Celtic Tiger cubs....
    I was both an employer and employee. As I see it employment laws favour the employee and for that reason I would never become an employer again.
    Better off having a worker as a sub contractor as it relieves the employer of most of the responsibilities associated with employing directly, excluding health and safety.


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    #148
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Base price wrote: »
    I was both an employer and employee. As I see it employment laws favour the employee and for that reason I would never become an employer again.
    Better off having a worker as a sub contractor as it relieves the employer of most of the responsibilities associated with employing directly, excluding health and safety.

    It's all about vision Base. If somebody comes to work talking hours and takehome pay they can go...
    Blackgrass is correct about full hours/wage and subbing...

    I don't want/need a youngster talking hours.
    Before Xmas I had a young lad (Irish) looking for work on HIS terms. His "wishes" were 1. €600/week in hand for 40hrs. 2. House. 3. Car. 4. Phone. 5. Free flights home.

    This child comes from home farm with 35 sucklers in Mayo.
    FFS.


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    #149
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,157 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    I agree with you Dawg.
    Most people on here find it difficult to yet a local young lad to come in on a Saturday to do a bit of feeding, power washing etc.
    The mindset out there is that people have a high opinion of their worth.
    On the flip side, as an employer, one needs to be aware of the legislation and not leave themselves exposed. There seems to be more and more cases going before the Employment Appeals Tribunal and in the majority of those cases the employee wins mainly due to the employer not covering their arses properly.


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    #150
    Fuxake
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Fuxake


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Waaaay to many employees on this thread and not enough employers.

    I've left Frazzledhome to fight his corner on his own.

    Ye sound awfully like a bunch of Celtic Tiger cubs....

    Dont know if you're including me in this? As it happens, Ive been employing workers part time over twenty years while I farm and also pursue off-farm activity.

    As I said at the outset, I think everything is out of synch (wages, dole etc) in this country as is the cost of living. Yes Dawg you are correct to say that there are a lot of celtic cubs who think the world owes them a living. But the other side of the coin is that there are also grafters who are reliable, skilled and decent in every way. Problem is that most farmers cant afford to hold these in the economy we have. I would fear that as the economy recovers and the building kicks off again we're gonna have a mighty struggle to get enough help to cover existing requirements and that's before we figure who's gonna milk all the extra cows.

    I think Base has a point when he says contract work is the way. But let's face some realities- FRS is charging €15.50 upwards plus VAT!! for good lads who get 12 outta that. Sounds way out. BUt when you factor in not having to pay for bank holidays, not having to pay for 4 weeks leave, not having to worry about sick pay, no risk of big redundancy bill, not being exposed to unfair dismassal/ tribunal etc and not having to pay 10.75% employers PRSI along with having to do a monthly P30 where you pay the taxman PAYE, PRSI and USC on behalf of your employee, then you see the reality of hiring help in all its glory!

    However, this is a really important thread insofar as it raises the question who's gonna do all the work on Irish farms over the next 10 years as we plan expansion yet the actual farmers are mostly over 55 already.

    What I do know from experience is that good farm workers have become more available in recent years due to downturn but it was a hell of a job to get anyone in the boom years.

    Im just saying that there will be more people looking to hire than people worth hiring. In an ideal world Teagasc or somesuch should be running courses to train youngsters from a non-farming background into being farm workers, foremen etc. But in turn, there will have to be a relatively respectable career path to attract anyone. We simply wont get enough workers from farming backgrounds cos they are either off pursuing professional careers or are unsuitable for other reasons.


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    #151
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭arctictree


    Biggest problem I have is part time labour. How can I expense it in my books if I can't get a receipt for €50?


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