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Mark 15:34
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01-11-2019 12:30pm#1The above verse in Mark Bible states the following:Mark 15:34 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
34 At three o’clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
It has always troubled me as to why Jesus would state these words.
Jesus knows that this is the divine plan, the very reason he was sent down to earth, to take upon himself the sins of mankind. So why would he cry out that he has forsaken himself?
I have a few thoughts on it. 1) that Jesus, being fully human, did not have a direct connection to God. That fits with the narrative the Jesus was human, but then how would he know he was the path to God? When he was going around preaching did he do so in the knowledge he was right or was it just something he felt was right? But that calls into question whether Jesus really was God, or simply yet another missionary preaching his own version of religion.
2) That he did have direct contact with God, but that the crucifixion was never part of the plan. It was possible that the plan was the Jesus was to lead a full life spreading the word and healing the world. But that flies in the face of the timelines where Jesus did almost nothing for nearly 30 years before embarking on his mission, but it ended within 3 years. Why did he waste all that time rather than starting much earlier?
As I said, it is something that has always troubled me. The Lords Prayer and indeed the last supper would suggest that Jesus knew of the plan and thus why would he suddenly question God's intentions?0
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Whether you believe in God or not, when you know it's real context and significance, it is in fact one of the most inspiring moments in the New Testament.
He was citing the prophetic Psalm 22, written a thousand years before, where apparent defeat in fact results in a great triumph.
This Psalm, it's opening line, and the significance would be obvious to the Jewish audience at the time but perhaps not today's modern audience not familiar with any context.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the LORD,” they say, “let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, LORD, do not be far from me. You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my people; in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you I will fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied; those who seek the LORD will praise him— may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!0 -
He wasn't just citing it. He was for the first time in His existence experiencing a separation from God.
The effects of sin in the human race.the effects of all sin, past present and future.0 -
The above verse in Mark Bible states the following:
It has always troubled me as to why Jesus would state these words.
Jesus knows that this is the divine plan, the very reason he was sent down to earth, to take upon himself the sins of mankind. So why would he cry out that he has forsaken himself?
I have a few thoughts on it. 1) that Jesus, being fully human, did not have a direct connection to God. That fits with the narrative the Jesus was human, but then how would he know he was the path to God? When he was going around preaching did he do so in the knowledge he was right or was it just something he felt was right? But that calls into question whether Jesus really was God, or simply yet another missionary preaching his own version of religion.
2) That he did have direct contact with God, but that the crucifixion was never part of the plan. It was possible that the plan was the Jesus was to lead a full life spreading the word and healing the world. But that flies in the face of the timelines where Jesus did almost nothing for nearly 30 years before embarking on his mission, but it ended within 3 years. Why did he waste all that time rather than starting much earlier?
As I said, it is something that has always troubled me. The Lords Prayer and indeed the last supper would suggest that Jesus knew of the plan and thus why would he suddenly question God's intentions?
Good post, but you'll never get a straight or logical answer asking Christians.
Jehovah the demon from the middle East was supposedly a sand demon which was jealous, schizophrenic, angry contradictory and a mass murderer.
Depending on his mood he'd either vaporise you or just observe you and leave you have a good life, but more than likely at any time he could just pull the rug From underneath you.
If Jehovah killed his own son for the salvation of mankind, well he did a pretty ****ty job of it.
That poor man was supposedly crucified and tortured for our good.
What a message for all humanity.
Jehovah had a thing about sacrificing family members.
Imagine someone so powerful but yet they seek validation and worship by getting people to commit horrific acts on his behalf ???
Seriously though0 -
Good post, but you'll never get a straight or logical answer asking Christians.
Jehovah the demon from the middle East was supposedly a sand demon which was jealous, schizophrenic, angry contradictory and a mass murderer.
Depending on his mood he'd either vaporise you or just observe you and leave you have a good life, but more than likely at any time he could just pull the rug From underneath you.
If Jehovah killed his own son for the salvation of mankind, well he did a pretty ****ty job of it.
That poor man was supposedly crucified and tortured for our good.
What a message for all humanity.
Jehovah had a thing about sacrificing family members.
Imagine someone so powerful but yet they seek validation and worship by getting people to commit horrific acts on his behalf ???
Seriously though
If you've nothing positive to add to a thread , why bother.0 -
Whether you believe in God or not, when you know it's real context and significance, it is in fact one of the most inspiring moments in the New Testament.
He was citing the prophetic Psalm 22, written a thousand years before, where apparent defeat in fact results in a great triumph.
This Psalm, it's opening line, and the significance would be obvious to the Jewish audience at the time but perhaps not today's modern audience not familiar with any context.
And you know this how? Remember that this was the second time (that we know of) that Jesus called into question the plan. The night before after the Last Supper he had asked for the chalice to be taken from him.
It also doesn't deal with the questions I raised. If he was god then why would he be asking himself why he had abandoned himself? This was part of the plan, that Jesus must die to defeat death. Why would he suddenly start to question what was happening? If, by chance, God had brought him down from the cross, the removal of sins wouldn't have happened.0 -
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Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »He wasn't just citing it. He was for the first time in His existence experiencing a separation from God.
The effects of sin in the human race.the effects of all sin, past present and future.
But Jesus is God, right? So going back to my initial questions;
1) that Jesus, being fully human, did not have a direct connection to God. That fits with the narrative the Jesus was human, but then how would he know he was the path to God? When he was going around preaching, did he do so in the knowledge he was right or was it just something he felt was right? But that calls into question whether Jesus really was God, or simply yet another missionary preaching his own version of religion.
2) That he did have direct contact with God, but that the crucifixion was never part of the plan. It was possible that the plan was the Jesus was to lead a full life spreading the word and healing the world. But that flies in the face of the timelines where Jesus did almost nothing for nearly 30 years before embarking on his mission, but it ended within 3 years. Why did he waste all that time rather than starting much earlier?
Particularly when we look at the context of how Jesus acted in the face of the trial. He refused to answer, refused to take part. This could be because he fully believed that God would save him. He believed he would not die, that God would save him. Upon being crucified, it became clear to this man that he wasn't going to be saved, that he was in fact, going to to die. Just all of those before him had died.
This is a man that firmly believed that he was the son of god. Either he knew he was god, and thus how could he possibly feel any separation, or he simply believed he was just like countless others throughout history have and continue to.0 -
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Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »He wasn't just citing it.
Just to be clear, and so there is no misrepresentation - I didn't say he was "just" citing it.0 -
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You so far off what's written that it's beyond a response. Just read the gospels. Read the storyBut Jesus is God, right? So going back to my initial questions;
1) that Jesus, being fully human, did not have a direct connection to God. That fits with the narrative the Jesus was human, but then how would he know he was the path to God? When he was going around preaching, did he do so in the knowledge he was right or was it just something he felt was right? But that calls into question whether Jesus really was God, or simply yet another missionary preaching his own version of religion.
2) That he did have direct contact with God, but that the crucifixion was never part of the plan. It was possible that the plan was the Jesus was to lead a full life spreading the word and healing the world. But that flies in the face of the timelines where Jesus did almost nothing for nearly 30 years before embarking on his mission, but it ended within 3 years. Why did he waste all that time rather than starting much earlier?
Particularly when we look at the context of how Jesus acted in the face of the trial. He refused to answer, refused to take part. This could be because he fully believed that God would save him. He believed he would not die, that God would save him. Upon being crucified, it became clear to this man that he wasn't going to be saved, that he was in fact, going to to die. Just all of those before him had died.
This is a man that firmly believed that he was the son of god. Either he knew he was god, and thus how could he possibly feel any separation, or he simply believed he was just like countless others throughout history have and continue to.0 -
Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »You said he was citing it. I said he wasn't just citing.
I did not say he was "just" citing it. I would appreciate a little honesty.0 -
But Jesus is God, right? So going back to my initial questions;
1) that Jesus, being fully human, did not have a direct connection to God. That fits with the narrative the Jesus was human, but then how would he know he was the path to God? When he was going around preaching, did he do so in the knowledge he was right or was it just something he felt was right? But that calls into question whether Jesus really was God, or simply yet another missionary preaching his own version of religion.
2) That he did have direct contact with God, but that the crucifixion was never part of the plan. It was possible that the plan was the Jesus was to lead a full life spreading the word and healing the world. But that flies in the face of the timelines where Jesus did almost nothing for nearly 30 years before embarking on his mission, but it ended within 3 years. Why did he waste all that time rather than starting much earlier?
Particularly when we look at the context of how Jesus acted in the face of the trial. He refused to answer, refused to take part. This could be because he fully believed that God would save him. He believed he would not die, that God would save him. Upon being crucified, it became clear to this man that he wasn't going to be saved, that he was in fact, going to to die. Just all of those before him had died.
This is a man that firmly believed that he was the son of god. Either he knew he was god, and thus how could he possibly feel any separation, or he simply believed he was just like countless others throughout history have and continue to.
You've received some excellent answers so far. Let me try to fill in some gaps.
Jesus is fully God and fully man. God in Christian thought is a Trinity. Jesus in His humanity was separated from God the Father on the cross. For all intents and purposes He was separated from Him in His humanity. Not in His divinity.
Jesus didn't have "direct contact with God" He was God. That's important to emphasise. As for timing we're told that Jesus came at the right time for humanity (Galatians 4:4-5). As for why that was the right time we're not told. Part of being a Christian is to engage with what God has revealed to us and not to speculate wildly beyond it. This requires a humble acceptance to say I can't know or understand everything that God does.
Jesus refused to answer because He knew He had to go through with the crucifixion to fulfil God's word which foretold hundreds of years before that this was the fate of the suffering servant (Isaiah 52-54).
I hope this provides some clarity.0 -
theological wrote: »You've received some excellent answers so far.
Your definition of excellent is clearly different to mine.theological wrote: »Let me try to fill in some gaps.
Jesus is fully God and fully man. God in Christian thought is a Trinity. Jesus in His humanity was separated from God the Father on the cross. For all intents and purposes He was separated from Him in His humanity. Not in His divinity.
Ok. Well apart from your opinion on what Jesus is or was lets try to work out the logic of your position. How is it possible for Jesus to be both fully God and fully human? 100% of both? Being a god, by definition means one is not human.
So he was separated from God from a human level but not in his divinity. But he is god. So cannot be separated. Did he know he was divine, and thus god?theological wrote: »Jesus didn't have "direct contact with God" He was God. That's important to emphasise.
So your point is hat since he was God, he couldn't lose contact? That is exactly my point. Why cry out that god (himself) had forsaken him (himself) when he knew that it wasn't true?theological wrote: »As for timing we're told that Jesus came at the right time for humanity (Galatians 4:4-5). As for why that was the right time we're not told. Part of being a Christian is to engage with what God has revealed to us and not to speculate wildly beyond it. This requires a humble acceptance to say I can't know or understand everything that God does.
Totally off topic but just to highlight that Christianity is build on speculation on what God really meant.theological wrote: »Jesus refused to answer because He knew He had to go through with the crucifixion to fulfil God's word which foretold hundreds of years before that this was the fate of the suffering servant (Isaiah 52-54).
I hope this provides some clarity.
Again, we are in agreement. Jesus didn't answer because this was his fate, he had to die to take on the sins of the world. But that then opens the question of why he calls out god for forsaking him when he already knew that was part of the plan.
I've been told it was part of prophecy, that Jesus didn't really believe what he said but had to say it in order for the prophecy to come true. I suppose that is part of the excellent answers I have received. But if you continue that line, then surely everything Jesus is claimed to have done can be seen in the context of fulfilling the prophecy and as such is very open to question about it veracity if those writing about it were intent on showing that the prophecy had been fulfilled.0 -
Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »You so far off what's written that it's beyond a response. Just read the gospels. Read the story
You do this every time I raise any questions. I know the story, I quoted you a part of it and you cannot explain it.
This is the usual victim blaming. God decides to give the world his message, but it is the worlds fault for not understanding it?
So rather than simply try to belittle me why not explain.
Did Jesus state that God had forsaken him on the cross?
A)yes, then why did he make that claim?
B)no, then what else in the bible is made up?
We will go with A) which then opens the question as to why.
Did he do it just to fulfil prophecy? Did he make the statement because he truly felt separated from god at that moment?
One recalls that he called into question god plans only the night before when he asked for the chalice to be taken from him. Both statement would suggest a man that was scared. Certainly not an all powerful god that controls the universe.
To me it all points to Jesus being human, no different than you or me, just that he had a true belief in God and believed that living on terms set out in the scriptures was the key to a relationship with God. And when he faced death, with the terrible pain and suffering he endured and facing into his own mortality, he called out for his god to save him.
The idea that on one of the most impactfull moments in history God could thing of nothing else to say than to part quote a psalm is a stretch.0 -
Ok. Well apart from your opinion on what Jesus is or was lets try to work out the logic of your position. How is it possible for Jesus to be both fully God and fully human? 100% of both? Being a god, by definition means one is not human.
So he was separated from God from a human level but not in his divinity. But he is god. So cannot be separated. Did he know he was divine, and thus god?
I'm going to leave the discussion after this post but a few things first.
This isn't just my opinion but it is the teaching of the church over thousands of years on this issue.
You question if it is possible for God to take human flesh and how that is possible. Given that God is the creator of the world there's no reason why it wouldn't be possible.
Your question as to whether Jesus knew He was God can be answered by reading the New Testament clearly. So I'll encourage you to do this instead.So your point is hat since he was God, he couldn't lose contact? That is exactly my point. Why cry out that god (himself) had forsaken him (himself) when he knew that it wasn't true?
Contact with what? Your questioning isn't making sense.
What I did say is that Jesus experienced separation from God the Father in His humanity (human nature) but not in His divinity.
This is your secular opinion and not my Christian one. I believe Christianity is based on the testimony of Jesus who came down from heaven to give life to the world.Totally off topic but just to highlight that Christianity is build on speculation on what God really meant.Again, we are in agreement. Jesus didn't answer because this was his fate, he had to die to take on the sins of the world. But that then opens the question of why he calls out god for forsaking him when he already knew that was part of the plan.
You've had this question answered. He was forsaken by God the Father in His humanity and fulfils Psalm 22 by being so.I've been told it was part of prophecy, that Jesus didn't really believe what he said but had to say it in order for the prophecy to come true. I suppose that is part of the excellent answers I have received. But if you continue that line, then surely everything Jesus is claimed to have done can be seen in the context of fulfilling the prophecy and as such is very open to question about it veracity if those writing about it were intent on showing that the prophecy had been fulfilled.
It is both. Jesus was forsaken by God the Father and He was fulfilling prophecy.0 -
I gave you the answer in post 3.You do this every time I raise any questions. I know the story, I quoted you a part of it and you cannot explain it.
This is the usual victim blaming. God decides to give the world his message, but it is the worlds fault for not understanding it?
So rather than simply try to belittle me why not explain.
Did Jesus state that God had forsaken him on the cross?
A)yes, then why did he make that claim?
B)no, then what else in the bible is made up?
We will go with A) which then opens the question as to why.
Did he do it just to fulfil prophecy? Did he make the statement because he truly felt separated from god at that moment?
One recalls that he called into question god plans only the night before when he asked for the chalice to be taken from him. Both statement would suggest a man that was scared. Certainly not an all powerful god that controls the universe.
To me it all points to Jesus being human, no different than you or me, just that he had a true belief in God and believed that living on terms set out in the scriptures was the key to a relationship with God. And when he faced death, with the terrible pain and suffering he endured and facing into his own mortality, he called out for his god to save him.
The idea that on one of the most impactfull moments in history God could thing of nothing else to say than to part quote a psalm is a stretch.
A scared man doesn't declare that He's going to die in Jerusalem and then set His face to go up to Jerusalem with that full knowledge.
As I said, you really need to read the story.0 -
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Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »I never said you did say it. I just said He wasnt just citing it, He actually experienced it due to His separation from God due to His becoming sin.
But if he became sin, how did he end up in heaven ?0 -
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Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »I never said you did say it. I just said He wasnt just citing it
In the English language what you say is, "he was also". "He was not just citing it" as a reply is attempting to contradict / misrepresent, when there was nothing to contradict.0 -
Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »I gave you the answer in post 3.
A scared man doesn't declare that He's going to die in Jerusalem and then set His face to go up to Jerusalem with that full knowledge.
As I said, you really need to read the story.
So in that case you believe suicide bombers are doing gods will?
I've said a few times now, the story reads like a man that truly believed that he wouldn't die. That God would save him. And that belief crashed against reality when facing death on the cross.
With so many varied interpretations of the bible, even christianity cannot agree on a single interpretation, why you think me reading the story will achieve anything is beyond me. 2ven in this thread we have a version where Jesus is merely fulfilling prophecy and another where he is humanely separated but not divinely.
If you can show me the fully interpreted and accepted gospel, not made up of different books all giving different accounts, I will happily read it.
I have read the gospel and like everyone that reads it I have questions.0 -
[quote="Leroy42;111707252"]So in that case you believe suicide bombers are doing gods will?
I've said a few times now, the story reads like a man that truly believed that he wouldn't die. That God would save him. And that belief crashed against reality when facing death on the cross.
With so many varied interpretations of the bible, even christianity cannot agree on a single interpretation, why you think me reading the story again will achieve anything is beyond me. 2ven in this thread we have a version where Jesus is merely fulfilling prophecy and another where he is humanely separated but not divinely.
If you can show me the fully interpreted and accepted gospel, not made up of different books all giving different accounts, I will happily read it.
I have read the gospel and like everyone that reads it I have questions.[/quote]
The first bit I never said.
The second bolded bit. It's grand having questions but the problem is not liking the answers because they don't fit your world view .
An honest heart is needed in reading the Bible. I don't believe yours is.0 -
Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »The first bit I never said.
This is what you saidA scared man doesn't declare that He's going to die in Jerusalem and then set His face to go up to Jerusalem with that full knowledge.
Your point being that if he was scared he wouldn't have do it, but then can't the same be true for suicide bombers? So their God must be talking to them?Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »The second bolded bit. It's grand having questions but the problem is not liking the answers because they don't fit your world view .
An honest heart is needed in reading the Bible. I don't believe yours is.
But I have shown the answers have issues. You don't want to face the contradictions inherent in your position.
But in regard to the honest heart, since there are so many interpretations of the bible do you really believe that all those that don't agree with your interpretation are not doing it honestly?
I don't know why you would call me as dishonest, I have not done anything but ask questions. Christianity has had 2000+ years to get this straight, with plenty of times that God has sent down messages, so I don't understand how issues like this can still exist.
Like state the 'facts' again. Jesus got scared because he felt that he was separated from himself despite being the person that actually came up with the plan. Then based on nothing except you opinion, you have decided that his calling out is due to his separation from God in part but not really.
So when I question what is simply your interpretation your response is to tell me to read the story again, a story with different versions within the bible itself and has lead to multiple interpretations.
Yet you think that your interpretation is right?0 -
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Like state the 'facts' again. Jesus got scared because he felt that he was separated from himself despite being the person that actually came up with the plan. Then based on nothing except you opinion, you have decided that his calling out is due to his separation from God in part but not really.
Yet you think that your interpretation is right?
Let's be very clear...the above is your interpretation, not mine.
It's interesting but nothing more than a twisting of reality.0 -
Taylor Wonderful Collar wrote: »Let's be very clear...the above is your interpretation, not mine.
It's interesting but nothing more than a twisting of reality.
Absolutely, neither of us know what the reality is so you can't say that only I am twisting it. I am interpreting it, just as you are.
On what basis do you base your reality that Jesus was quoting prophecy?
You can't possibly know that that is what he was thinking.
So, like you do everytime I ask a question, you come back with an incomplete answer, based entirely on your own interpretations, and then get upset when I won't simply accept your version as being correct. And then tell read to read one of the most differently interpreted books ever written to understand the story!
Very clearly there is a question to answer here. A simply making up that he was quoting prophecy, when that does nothing to explain anything. If he was quoting prophecy then he didn't really believe what he was saying, he was doing it for effect.
If he really did feel separated, then you still have explained how Jesus (being God) could be separated from himself. And even if he did feel it, he knew full well the plan so it seems a bit strange that he would lose faith in God given that he knew what the plan actually was.0 -
@Leroy42, you are getting hung up on details, unless you approach Christianity with an open mind and open heart, you will never accept it. Accept through faith the offer of salvation through God's Grace, and God will reveal himself to you. As Christians we don't have ALL the answers, but we know enough to be able to be saved, and we learn more as we walk closer with God each day.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13%3A12&version=ESV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19%3A14&version=NIV0 -
Or how could God talk to God as we read happened...Absolutely, neither of us know what the reality is so you can't say that only I am twisting it. I am interpreting it, just as you are.
On what basis do you base your reality that Jesus was quoting prophecy?
You can't possibly know that that is what he was thinking.
So, like you do everytime I ask a question, you come back with an incomplete answer, based entirely on your own interpretations, and then get upset when I won't simply accept your version as being correct. And then tell read to read one of the most differently interpreted books ever written to understand the story!
Very clearly there is a question to answer here. A simply making up that he was quoting prophecy, when that does nothing to explain anything. If he was quoting prophecy then he didn't really believe what he was saying, he was doing it for effect.
If he really did feel separated, then you still have explained how Jesus (being God) could be separated from himself. And even if he did feel it, he knew full well the plan so it seems a bit strange that he would lose faith in God given that he knew what the plan actually was.
We know from the record that He quoted the Old testament on several occasions. It's safe to assume He did so again.
You leave out the truth bthat as well as being God, He was also 100% man.
A Son with His Father.
The Word of God, made flesh.
When He said He was I Am, everyone knew what He meant.0 -
100% man and 100% god? Or maybe 50% god?
You realise how illogical that sounds?
Or maybe at the time he was just 100% man, which would explain his actions but then calls into question his belief that he was god. Dud he know, as is assumed, or just believe like so many before and since.
Of course your answer will be that god can do anything, which as usual is based on nothing but your own belief. But even accepting that, they why the elaborate made up life and crucifixion when he could just have easily taken all sin away without all the fuss.0 -
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This used to disturb me also but then one day I was reading Psalms and I came across this:
"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?"
Psalm 22
Seeing this for me made everything clear. Jesus was quoting King David in that moment. If you study the Gospels you'll see that Jesus quoted the old testament a lot. When he was being tempted in the wilderness he never engaged with Satan in any kind of conventional dialogue, he just threw scripture at him. I think David was talking about Jesus when he wrote those words and Jesus, hanging on the cross, was fulfilling the prophecy. If you read the old testament again but this time watch out for mentions of Jesus, you'll see clearly that he is everywhere in that book. Its quite amazing to see this.0
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