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20-03-2006, 08:36   #1
Maskhadov
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Dublin-Cork to take just two hours on 200kmh train

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Dublin-Cork to take just two hours on 200kmh train
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Treacy Hogan

Environment

Correspondent

HIGH-SPEED trains travelling at 200kmh will cut the Dublin-Cork journey to just two hours.

Passengers can look forward to at least 30 minutes being slashed from the trip.

CIE chairman, John Lynch, last week ordered Iarnrod Eireann chiefs to activate the radical plan.

A €117m fleet of new trains will come into service on the Dublin-Cork route in coming weeks, clearing the way for an hourly service in each direction by the end of the year.

Replaced

Some 100 miles of track is being replaced for the project.

The current maximum speeds on the route are 160kmh with a best journey time of two hours 30 minutes.

The plan involves significant changes to the infrastructure and to the powering of trains on the route.

Under the scheme, traditional locomotive-hauling, which will operate the new fleet this year, would be upgraded to twin lightweight power cars, operating at either end of the train.

This technology has recently been adopted by some rail operators in the UK and elsewhere, with notable success.

Not only would twin power cars deliver a boost to speed and journey time, but reliability would also improve dramatically.

To facilitate the increased speeds envisaged, a number of infrastructure initiatives are involved.

Iarnrod Eireann proposes to make a number of improvements to the line, including:

* Track renewal of 100 miles of track.

* Elimination of a number of level crossings.

* Realignment of certain sections of curved track.

* Renewal of signalling and train protection systems.

Currently, 160kph operation covers approximately 25pc of the Dublin-Cork route.

The infrastructure plans would see 200kmh adopted in the link between Clondalkin, Co Dublin and Limerick Junction, over 62pc of the route distance.

Barry Kenny, Iarnrod Eireann spokesperson, said yesterday: "The Cork-Dublin route is our flagship Intercity route, with almost 4,000,000 passenger journeys annually today."

Target

He added: "Improving speeds is the next target, to extend still further our speed advantage over road transport."

Mr Kenny told the Irish Independent that no other mode of transport would rival the new project.

"A two-hour city centre to city centre journey time would simply be impossible for any other transport mode in this country to even come close to matching," he said.

Detailed feasibility work is to be undertaken this year to establish likely costs and timescales for the plan.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=13822
This is outstanding !! Great news
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20-03-2006, 10:01   #2
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How much will the fare go up by though??
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20-03-2006, 10:47   #3
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I'm not sure if this a reflection on IE or Translink but I remember reading a report on the then planned introduction of the Dublin-Belfast intercity Enterprise service that projected journey times between the two cities to be 1hr 40 minutes - but this never transpired and travel times between the two cities on Enterprise still take well over two hours.
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20-03-2006, 11:08   #4
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Dublin Belfast got down to 1:51 for a while (its now 1:55/2:05) the non stop 100mph timing was never realised as they never spent the money to allow the increase from 90mph to 100mph to make it happen (more NIR than IE at fault as they still have a fair bit of 70mph), its a bit like the 2:15 Dublin Cork promise of 1986. Translink are now talking about going 125mph as well

Fares will go up 3-5% per year as before as the DoT control them not IE, off peak fares are going to fall next year if you book in advance, well so they say.

Its about time, the first 200km/h coaches entered service in May 1984, and where tested in Ireland at 200km/h
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20-03-2006, 11:29   #5
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I have never believed anything more than 125mph would be required here (TGV is 186mph in service IIRC) as our land mass (and the centre island nature of the principal destination-Dublin) would never see the advantages of 186mph style trains given the relatively short distance journeys that IC trains make here.

125mph is perfect IMO. My only quandry is why stop at Limerick Junction? Take it on to Cork and why start at Clondalkin? Surely if the bar has been set for the route then the Kildare Route Project should ensure 125mph from the start gate at Heuston, not a few miles out the road at Clondalkin!

These two measures would further slash the journey time to well under 2 hrs, the road alternative would never be able to compete, regardless of motorways and that's what we need.

If this is the new way forward, then I'm pleased. I'd hope any works on the upgrade would be carried out in such a way to make later electrification straightforward. In fairness to IE they have always done this in the past.

If they could get complete 125mph running Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast it would pave the way for Cork-Belfast direct via the Phoenix Park Tunnel. It might be possible to do it in 4.5 hrs, which might suit many business travellers as they can work onboard and it's city centre to city centre travel. A long long way off no doubt, but a possibility perhaps. Would probably require quading the northern line out beyond Howth Junction at least to make it viable.

How come Dr. Lynch gets to make all these grand plans? Where are IE management in all this?
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20-03-2006, 15:27   #6
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i said on previous threads that IE should buy new locos as it would really increase the speed of services on the Cork Dublin line. Someone flamed the rear end off me. I knew I was correct. Those old minging 201's (or whatever they are called) are passed it and we need new ones.

Some people were laughing their heads off at a 200kmph service or a TGV/ICE but we could actually do with it and it would be very pratical.
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20-03-2006, 16:05   #7
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i believe you were suggesting that we should build a new dedicated TGV line from scratch

i suggested that the current alignment be upgraded for higher speeds

what does the article say?
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20-03-2006, 16:25   #8
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Perhaps the train will now ACTUALLY BE ON TIME, rather than arriving in Cork half an hour late each time.

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with a current best journey time of two hours 30 minutes.
2 1/2 hours to get to Cork on the train? Takes at least 3.
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20-03-2006, 16:37   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maskhadov
i said on previous threads that IE should buy new locos as it would really increase the speed of services on the Cork Dublin line. Someone flamed the rear end off me. I knew I was correct. Those old minging 201's (or whatever they are called) are passed it and we need new ones.

Some people were laughing their heads off at a 200kmph service or a TGV/ICE but we could actually do with it and it would be very pratical.
I believe the argument was that there was no point in faster locos as the speed restrictions on the line was the limiting factor. This is still the case and you'll notice that this proposal greatly reduces the number of speed restrictions. I'm sure the mathematics was explained.
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20-03-2006, 16:39   #10
Maskhadov
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well i was backing both TGV/ICE or upgrading the existing rail service to 200Kmph. TGV/ICE would be completely seperate guage and thus could be built to European standards..

The service to Belfast should get a similar 200kmph overhaul.
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20-03-2006, 17:08   #11
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Originally Posted by Maskhadov
The service to Belfast should get a similar 200kmph overhaul.
Agreed, wonder would it qualify for TEN funding. Most of the bad bendy bits are up north though, so unless the EU is willing to stump up some cash, it might not be a runner. 125mph Dublin-Belfast would be very good though.
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21-03-2006, 00:42   #12
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The most telling part of that article is this line:

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Detailed feasibility work is to be undertaken this year to establish likely costs and timescales for the plan.
No fear of any improvements in the near future then, 10 years minimum I'd say.
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21-03-2006, 01:35   #13
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Can you only imagine the "stress" the unions will have over that.

What's the story with the new Dublin-Cork half pointy coaches then? Seem to be taken really long to enter service.
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21-03-2006, 02:20   #14
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Well the new coaches are 200km/h capable so it's just a case of ordering several sets of new pointy ends complete with light-weight high speed engines inside. The coaches will happily run at 125mph (200km/h).

You'll prob. see a new fleet of power cars that look almost identical to the current DVTs. There would be very little logic in changing the design, it's quite well styled. One will go at either end of the train. It'll look a lot nicer to have a point at either end rather than a boxy general purpose locomotive at one end and a pointy driving van at the other.

There's nothing particularly new about this sort of technology. In fact, it's just a modern version of the Intercity 125s that have operated in Britain since the 1970s. The existing Cork-Dublin fleet (The orange mark 3 coaches) are derived from this design.


It's a very successful sollution and has worked extremely well in the UK. Two light engines, one at each end, gives you excellent accelleration and spreads the weight over more axels thus reducing track wear. It also improves reliability as if one engine should fail, you can still continue on, albeit with poor accelleration.

IE's Intercity 200 will benefit from more modern computer controls, a wider variety of engines and 30 years of technologicial progress. There are many more high powered DMU trains on the rails around Europe thesedays which means that there are many efficient, fast, light engines out there to pick from.

If it works, CAF may end up with a nice off-the-shelf design suitable for 200km/h+ intercity use across europe.


The existing DVTs will be kinda wasted, however it's possible that they could be adapted to work with MK3 coaches to produce a nice intercity push-pull capable of 90mph that could be used to suplement the enterprise.
Worst case scenario, IE end up with a few useless DVTs sitting at inchicore.

I donno what they'll do with the pool of 201 locos that's going to be left as within 10 years almost no passenger trains, apart from the enteprise, will require them!

It's a *VERY* cost-effective way of upgrading the country's busiest and most profitable rail route and will give air a major run for its money. I suspect that IE had this planned all along somehow and simply wern't given the appropriate funding. It seemed a bit odd to buy high-spec 200km/h coaches to have them hauled by existing engines.

Last edited by Solair; 21-03-2006 at 02:24.
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21-03-2006, 04:17   #15
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more likely the DVTs will end up on Enterprise I'd say.
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