"Won't someone think of the children"

Morag · 17-08-2012 1:07pm #1

It's staggering how low some moralising special interest groups will stoop.
Ruhama which was founded as a joint initiative of the Good Shepherd Sisters and Our Lady of Charity Sisters have been working to make paying for sex illegal.

Currently it's not illegal for consenting adults to pay for sex or to charge for sex.
Ruhama want to put a stop to this, and have been beating several drums
in order to make this happen. From saying that all women involved in prostitution are victims( they never mention men who ply that trade) and need to be rescued, to saying that not making paying for sex illegal means women are trafficked and kept as sex slaves.

Ireland already has laws on trafficking people and forced prostitution and now their new campaign is about a fictional 14 year old who gets groomed into prostitution called Anna.

Won't someone think of the children being used to make paid sex between consenting adults illegal. WTF

Kids like 'Anna' don't need paid sex between consenting adults made illegal,
they need the rights which are currently being denied them by the failure of successive governments to ratify The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Kids like 'Anna' need to be reported by teachers and concerned adults.
Kids like 'Anna' need social workers to have the time and resources to help them.
Kids like 'Anna' need to be taken into care away from their abusive/neglectful
parents and to have those parents/guardians prosecuted.
Kids like 'Anna' don't need to be used by christian moralising groups to try police people by putting pressure on the government.

starbelgrade · 17-08-2012 1:09pm

Some people are always thinking of the children.

They call them 'paedophiles'.

MistyCheese · 17-08-2012 1:11pm

I dream of living in a world where people shut the :mad: up about "the children" every once in a while.

17-08-2012 1:11pm

And you're putting this in After hours because.........?

I'm not saying I don't agree, I do, but I wiuldn't give the pond life a chance to take the piss out of this.

marshbaboon · 17-08-2012 1:11pm

I'm thinking of the children right now.

I'm thinking f*ck the children, there's too many of them anyway.

............. not literally of course........

Sauve · 17-08-2012 1:14pm

There is a vast difference between professional prostitution and trafficking children into forced prostitution.

The two are worlds' apart. If nothing else, more regulation of prostitution would pave the way for safer environments for adults who go into the profession.

Grooming children for this purpose is a whole different scenario.

Hardonraging · 17-08-2012 1:15pm

Wait I can charge people to have sex with me .. .as opposed to just given them multiple orgasm ... WTF .. why did nobody tell me this sooner ...

Consenting adults only plz of course !!

some random drunk · 17-08-2012 1:15pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0817/public-support-sought-for-prostitution-law-change.html

Yeah, seen this on RTE:

Public support sought for prostitution law change

A billboard and social media campaign, which seeks public support to change the laws around prostitution in Ireland, gets under way over the weekend.

Sites in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Sligo and Waterford will be used as part of the Turn Off the Red Light campaign.
It is made up of a coalition of over 50 organisations, including trade unions, representative bodies, political parties, human rights groups and victim support networks.
The group wants the law changed to make it illegal to pay for sex.

Backward step in my opinion. Can't see how making it illegal for consenting adults to pay for sex has anything to do with the protection of children.

ScumLord · 17-08-2012 1:17pm

I'm sure they see the issue as being so important that it's ok to tell the odd white lie or embellish the truth for effect. Tis the way of the religious.

17-08-2012 1:18pm

Sauve wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something here but there is a vast difference between professional prostitution and trafficking children into forced prostitution.

The two are worlds' apart.

not in la la land where all sex is wrong especially paying for it

starbelgrade · 17-08-2012 1:19pm

Sauve wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something here but there is a vast difference between professional prostitution and trafficking children into forced prostitution.

The two are worlds' apart.

They're probably a lot closer than a lot of people would care to admit. There are girls working in Ireland who are under the age of 18 who were either trafficked into the country, or "smuggled" in & are now forced to work as prostitutes to pay back their "debts". It's a common problem across most of Europe.

That is not to say however, that a blanket law which criminalises the users of prostitutes would solve the problem.

Sauve · 17-08-2012 1:22pm

bluewolf wrote: »

not in la la land where all sex is wrong especially paying for it

Dirty fornicatin' heathens...

ScumLord · 17-08-2012 1:24pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

That is not to say however, that a blanket law which criminalises the users of prostitutes would solve the problem.

No it would just drive it further underground. I'm sure there are women that do choose to become prostitutes but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't a last desperate resort in the vast majority of cases.

Regulation would bring about some protection and at least allow for a clear path out of the business. If you allow for a legitimate way of doing business even people on the margins would rather work under the protection of the law and the state than be at the mercy of criminal organisations.

Sauve · 17-08-2012 1:24pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

They're probably a lot closer than a lot of people would care to admit. There are girls working in Ireland who are under the age of 18 who were either trafficked into the country, or "smuggled" in & are now forced to work as prostitutes to pay back their "debts". It's a common problem across most of Europe.

That is not to say however, that a blanket law which criminalises the users of prostitutes would solve the problem.

One is horiffic child abuse, the other is (if it was properly regulated), a perfectly legitimate way for an informed adult to make a living.

The only connection that I can see is that they both involve sex.

starbelgrade · 17-08-2012 1:25pm

Sauve wrote: »

Dirty fornicatin' heathens...

Or as Woody Allen once put it... "Is sex dirty? Only when it's being done right"

some random drunk · 17-08-2012 1:25pm

http://www.turnofftheredlight.ie/

This is the website behind the campaign, for anyone interested in having a look.

In fairness, it's not just Ruhama behind it, there's a whole bunch of different organisations including the Labour Party, ICTU, UNITE, Pavee Point, Barnados, Irish Girl Guides amongst others.

sbsquarepants · 17-08-2012 1:28pm

Ruhama - Catholic hand wringing fúckwits.

If you want to stop people being trafficked into prostitution (which i'm sure does happen but i very much doubt it's all that rampant) Then legalise and regulate it - if some lady wants to rent her vag out by the hour, who the fúck is anyone else to tell she can't? Who is she hurting?

starbelgrade · 17-08-2012 1:29pm

Sauve wrote: »

One is horiffic child abuse, the other is (if it was properly regulated), a perfectly legitimate way for an informed adult to make a living.

The only connection that I can see is that they both involve sex.

This is true - and I never meant to suggest otherwise. However, the fact still remains that many young women are forced into this "profession" and I would imagine that in practice, in a lot of cases, it would be very difficult to make a distinction between the two.

LoYL · 17-08-2012 1:29pm

There needs to be a discussion and an analysis of it; if this campaign starts that it can only be good. I hope we can have an adult debate as a country that has lost its illusions might just be able to look at the issue from a realistic basis of what is in the public good rather than "Jesus/ Moses/Mohammed/Buddha/Ron Hubbard/Book of Mormon said that..."
Finally, I resent being called pond life because I post in AH. I crawled onto the bank years ago.

Sauve · 17-08-2012 1:29pm

some random drunk wrote: »

http://www.turnofftheredlight.ie/

This is the website behind the campaign, for anyone interested in having a look.

In fairness, it's not just Ruhama behind it, there's a whole bunch of different organisations including the Labour Party, ICTU, UNITE, Pavee Point, Barnados, Irish Girl Guides amongst others.

A lot of organisations there with long standing Catholic backgrounds.

That approach is badly covering more agendas than the protection of kids.

starbelgrade · 17-08-2012 1:31pm

LoYL wrote: »

There needs to be a discussion and an analysis of it;

+1

LoYL wrote: »

Finally, I resent being called pond life because I post in AH.

+100

ScumLord · 17-08-2012 1:31pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

the fact still remains that many young women are forced into this "profession"

It wouldn't even have to be forced by crime gangs either, the current economic climate could be forcing plenty of women into the profession.

Sauve · 17-08-2012 1:34pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

This is true - and I never meant to suggest otherwise. However, the fact still remains that many young women are forced into this "profession" and I would imagine that in practice, in a lot of cases, it would be very difficult to make a distinction between the two.

Yeah maybe. Though I'd hope that a well prepared and efficient regulatory body would be equipped with the resources to identify and tackle such problems.
Probably wishful thinking though...

Morag · 17-08-2012 1:35pm

some random drunk wrote: »

http://www.turnofftheredlight.ie/

This is the website behind the campaign, for anyone interested in having a look.

In fairness, it's not just Ruhama behind it, there's a whole bunch of different organisations including the Labour Party, ICTU, UNITE, Pavee Point, Barnados, Irish Girl Guides amongst others.

None of which have consulted sex workers or have sexworkers involved.

http://www.turnoffthebluelight.ie/

Welcome to the “Turn Off the Blue Light” (TOBL) website.

We are a sex worker led association campaigning against calls to criminalise the purchase of sex, and for the health, safety, human, civil and labour rights of sex workers in Ireland.

starbelgrade · 17-08-2012 1:35pm

ScumLord wrote: »

It wouldn't even have to be forced by crime gangs either, the current economic climate could be forcing plenty of women into the profession.

I heard a Henry McKeane report on Newstalk one day - he was talking to women who work as prostitutes on the streets of inner city Dublin and quite a few of them said they only do it "seasonally" to pay for the likes of birthdays, Christmas, communions & other events.

Crazy stuff.

"Hope you like your birthday present son - I had to suck five cocks off to get you that Xbox".

Irish_wolf · 17-08-2012 1:37pm

So what constitutes paying for sex then?

If I hadn't signed any contract or written deal how would they know it wasnt just two consenting adults having a quickie. One could simply say they'd met the girl in a bar and didnt even know she was a prostitute.... Or worse for the paranoid, a girl could regret a one night stand claim that someone had paid her for sex and get them arrested.

Also does it have to be money? Will I get arrested for buying a girl a drink in a bar because that will fall under exchanging gifts/buying things for a girl for sex.

Making prostitution illegal will just make the criminals find better ways of hiding themselves from the law, i.e. making the situation worse. Of course legalising it and regulating it havent been that successful in other countries so that solution is out of the window.

There is no easy solution to this problem, and it is a big social problem dont get me wrong. But making it illegal is not the answer.

starbelgrade · 17-08-2012 1:38pm

Sauve wrote: »

Yeah maybe. Though I'd hope that a well prepared and efficient regulatory body would be equipped with the resources to identify and tackle such problems.
Probably wishful thinking though...

Probably... I can't think of one regulatory body in Ireland that's efficient as it stands!

Even in the likes of Holland - where the perception is that the whole prostitution thing is above board, there are still huge problems with criminal gangs racketeering a lot of the business.

The bottom line is that it's a very tough industry to police and to regulate.

GAAman · 17-08-2012 1:40pm

some random drunk wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0817/public-support-sought-for-prostitution-law-change.html

Yeah, seen this on RTE:

Backward step in my opinion. Can't see how making it illegal for consenting adults to pay for sex has anything to do with the protection of children.

You are talking about the same arsé backward country that instead of tackling the very real and muchly ignored issue of mental health, made it all but illegal for you to purchase solpadeine in a chemists......

p to the e · 17-08-2012 1:44pm

Sharrow wrote: »

Currently it's not illegal for consenting adults to pay for sex or to charge for sex.
Ruhama want to put a stop to this, and have been beating several drums
in order to make this happen.

Those poor drums.

Sauve · 17-08-2012 1:45pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

Probably... I can't think of one regulatory body in Ireland that's efficient as it stands!

Even in the likes of Holland - where the perception is that the whole prostitution thing is above board, there are still huge problems with criminal gangs racketeering a lot of the business.

The bottom line is that it's a very tough industry to police and to regulate.

Morality of punters can't be policed unfortunately.
If there wasn't a demand for a 13 year old being forced to have sex with someone, there'd be no problem to start with.

Everyone has their kinks, but the 'men' who sleep with these children?
Absolute scum doesn't begin to describe what I think of them.

dttq · 17-08-2012 1:55pm

Sharrow wrote: »

It's staggering how low some moralising special interest groups will stoop.
Ruhama which was founded as a joint initiative of the Good Shepherd Sisters and Our Lady of Charity Sisters have been working to make paying for sex illegal.

Currently it's not illegal for consenting adults to pay for sex or to charge for sex.
Ruhama want to put a stop to this, and have been beating several drums
in order to make this happen. From saying that all women involved in prostitution are victims( they never mention men who ply that trade) and need to be rescued, to saying that not making paying for sex illegal means women are trafficked and kept as sex slaves.

Ireland already has laws on trafficking people and forced prostitution and now their new campaign is about a fictional 14 year old who gets groomed into prostitution called Anna.

Won't someone think of the children being used to make paid sex between consenting adults illegal. WTF

Kids like 'Anna' don't need paid sex between consenting adults made illegal,
they need the rights which are currently being denied them by the failure of successive governments to ratify The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Kids like 'Anna' need to be reported by teachers and concerned adults.
Kids like 'Anna' need social workers to have the time and resources to help them.
Kids like 'Anna' need to be taken into care away from their abusive/neglectful
parents and to have those parents/guardians prosecuted.
Kids like 'Anna' don't need to be used by christian moralising groups to try police people by putting pressure on the government.

It's one of the oldest tricks in the book - be as shrill and sensational as possible to try and win the public over to your side. e.g.

"Do you smoke pot? Are you aware that you are supporting dictators and groups like the taliban? Every time you smoke that joint remember that you are funding terrorism and child slave labour in the third world. Remember that every time you light that up that joint you are supporting child slavery and the murder of innocent civilians around the world".

"Won't someone think of the children"

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