Tito Ortiz on his back surgery, UFC and career

Dragan · 08-10-2008 1:33pm #1

Interesting read from Tito.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7303&zoneid=2

08-10-2008 1:56pm

Hopefully he can mount some sort of return to form. I agree he hasn't looked good in a long time, we'll now see if it was injuries or if the game has just passed him by. He did look good on his feet against Rashad and nearly suprised Machida with a tight looking triangle!

Dragan · 08-10-2008 2:39pm

If his back really was affecting him as he said ( I don't know, a lot of fighters seem to have a reason they lost, as oppossed to just the other person being better than them on the night ) then yeah, it being solved should make a massive difference to his game.

The simply fact is the the power and drive and agressiveness of his shot was gone, you saw it in the Griffin fight, first round mauling, Tito got tired and just couldn't seem to get his TD until very late in the fight.

For me, Tito has a surgical style of GnP and that is what makes him incredibly dangerous. When he gets you down he really does open up on you, and those shots land. They are not thrown wild.

I'd love to see Tito get back on form, he is an exciting fighter.

Killme00 · 08-10-2008 3:13pm

It must be all that pounding he is doing with Jenna. Maybe now that she is "with child" he'll get a rest.

Either way i wouldnt fancy his chances against many off the top LH around now. Id like to see him fight Wanderlei though.

stevemc01 · 08-10-2008 3:27pm

It would be great for Tito if this back surgery sorted him out. He hasnt been able to train properly for his recent fights and his cardio has been lacking as a result.

People talk about the bad performances he has had. Chuck was just a bad match up for him full stop. He was the better fighter in the fight against Rashad and well no-one has found a way of beating Machida yet.

A 100% fit Tito still has some good fights left in him.

Dragan · 08-10-2008 4:13pm

stevemc01 wrote: »

Chuck was just a bad match up for him full stop.

I don't think so. Chuck falls apart in the face of agression, and especially aggressive wrestlers. Tito spent too much time thinking "if i get him down i can't keep him down" and "if he it's me it's over".

Chuck TKO'd him twice, at least one of those wins should have been Tito.

Namely the first time they fought.

IMO.

08-10-2008 4:22pm

the way to beat Chuck is to either get off first as Randy and Rampage did the first time which is dodgy cos you HAVE to get off first EVERY time because you're still going after him but if you get off first you will beat him......or not to go after him and instead sit back and make Chuck move forward a la Jardine and Rashad and Rampage the second time.

Tito came in with neither gameplan. His gameplan was to try to set up takedowns with strikes but there was no intent in his strikes. Granted the second fight he threw some haymaker overhand rights but he wasnt prepared to get into the redzone hence he missed with pretty much every single one he threw. The first fight Tito just looked absolutely terrified.

G-izzles · 08-10-2008 4:38pm

Good for him. I know what it's like to have back pain, my friend's irresponsible gym guidance caused me to be out of any sport for a few weeks and now what seems like a lifetime of taking it easy when it comes to any heavy lifting. So I can relate, sort of. But what pisses me off reading that is the UFC's unwillingness to support him outside of the Octagon. Surely they'd take some sort of responsibility?! I know it's his decision to train and get in there but he was and still is a big name for them and makes them a lot of money. Surely it's in their best interests to make sure he's in full health?

The UFC's a big name, but not many promotions are bigger than their biggest fighters and Tito's surely an important player, business wise. No?

Fozzy · 08-10-2008 6:48pm

G-izzles wrote: »

But what pisses me off reading that is the UFC's unwillingness to support him outside of the Octagon. Surely they'd take some sort of responsibility?! I know it's his decision to train and get in there but he was and still is a big name for them and makes them a lot of money. Surely it's in their best interests to make sure he's in full health?

The UFC's a big name, but not many promotions are bigger than their biggest fighters and Tito's surely an important player, business wise. No?

Well, the thing is that if they were to help out Tito in this case then they'd have to help out every other fighter they have under contract, because every single one of them is going to pick up some sort of injury

This is just Tito making it all about himself again. He wasn't treated any different than any other UFC fighter. Keep in mind too that he's better able to provide his own healthcare than 90%+ of UFC fighters

G-izzles · 08-10-2008 8:47pm

Alright but surely as an extremely financially successful company, the UFC would take care of its employees. I'm sure Footballers would be helped out by their clubs, why can't the UFC intervine even slightly?

I do take your point about Tito being able to take care of himself tho, he must have quite a bit in the bank. I was mainly talking about fighters who don't have the support net of fame

rovert · 08-10-2008 8:53pm

He wasnt complaining about this when he was in the UFC, so your answer is there.

Fozzy · 08-10-2008 9:10pm

G-izzles wrote: »

Alright but surely as an extremely financially successful company, the UFC would take care of its employees. I'm sure Footballers would be helped out by their clubs, why can't the UFC intervine even slightly?

I remember a good while ago Dana was asked about the UFC providing health insurance and he sort of laughed it off, asking if you can imagine the cost that it would be for a company full of ultimate fighters

Randy Couture talked last month about this topic: http://www.mmaontap.com/mma/entry/couture-talks-ufc-medical-claims/ So it appears that the UFC do help out some fighters at times

stevemc01 · 09-10-2008 10:01am

I dont think they give the fighters sweet fa towards medical to be honest. I read on MMA Weekly last year that they agreed to contribute towrads Tim Sylvias back surgery if he took the Couture fight but I havent heard of anything else.

Although you have to see it from both sides, covering medical expenses in MMA would cost a fortune, maybe they could work it so they covered injuries obtained in fights and not training, IDK?

On the fighters side of things having to pay for expensive medical procedures when realistically the operations could end their career is a big outlay and a huge decision considering at lot of these guys are not paid a huge amount of money. If the operation doesnt go well and they cant fight again they are basically finished.

With regards to Tito's earnings, its all relative guys, half his earnings are gone in tax anyway, plus the life style someone like himself would lead would drain a lot of cash. I'd also imagine buying De la Hoya's house in big bear put a big hole in his wallet.

Killme00 · 09-10-2008 10:41am

stevemc01 wrote: »

With regards to Tito's earnings, its all relative guys, half his earnings are gone in tax anyway, plus the life style someone like himself would lead would drain a lot of cash. I'd also imagine buying De la Hoya's house in big bear put a big hole in his wallet.

What makes you think that?

stevemc01 · 09-10-2008 11:28am

US tax Rates

Income___________Tax Rate
0-8025___________10%
8025-32550_______15%
32550-78850______25%
78850-164550_____28%
164550-357700____33%
>357770__________35%

Social Secuity rates
Social Security: 12.4% on your first $102,000 of wages
Medicare: 2.9% on all your wages

Total FICA: 15.3% maximiumTax Year

I know it would work out at less than half, but its still a huge chunk gone, so although these guys look like they take home a big pay packet for each fight the tax man gets lots of $$$$$$
out of it. Not just saying it about Tito, same goes for Chuck , Randy, Rampage and the rest.

PS. not trying to be a dick, but I'm an accountant

Killme00 · 09-10-2008 11:37am

stevemc01 wrote: »

US tax Rates

Income___________Tax Rate
0-8025___________10%
8025-32550_______15%
32550-78850______25%
78850-164550_____28%
164550-357700____33%
>357770__________35%

Social Secuity rates
Social Security: 12.4% on your first $102,000 of wages
Medicare: 2.9% on all your wages

Total FICA: 15.3% maximiumTax Year

I know it would work out at less than half, but its still a huge chunk gone, so although these guys look like they take home a big pay packet for each fight the tax man gets lots of $$$$$$
out of it. Not just saying it about Tito, same goes for Chuck , Randy, Rampage and the rest.

PS. not trying to be a dick, but I'm an accountant

me too. But what about offsetting the costs associated with training agianst the income leaving the taxable part alot smaller. Also their under the table income in the forms of seminars and whatnot wwould be significant for the better guys.

Edit to add: Its so much worse for guys like GSP who is getting taxed in the US and Canada

Dragan · 09-10-2008 12:17pm

Tito's lifestye is something he choses to life, his house is something he choses to buy. TAX is paid by everybody and cannot be used as an excuse to demand more money.

Tito was well paid by the UFC when he was with them, he would normally end up in the main event, meaning PPV shares. He runs a very successful clothing company, gym and training camps. He has many sponsorship deals as well.

I like Tito, but he needs to shut the **** up as if he is living hand to mouth.

stevemc01 · 09-10-2008 1:42pm

Killme00 wrote: »

me too. But what about offsetting the costs associated with training agianst the income leaving the taxable part alot smaller. Also their under the table income in the forms of seminars and whatnot wwould be significant for the better guys.

Edit to add: Its so much worse for guys like GSP who is getting taxed in the US and Canada

You too? my condolences, lol.

I agree about GSP that sucks.

My point is just trying to get accross to people that the reported salaries fighters make be it Tito, Rampage Randy or Chuck are liable to tax and thats not what the guys gets at the end of the day. There is still a big chunk of it going to the IRS over there.

Dragan, yes everyone pays tax buts its not a thread where everyones salary/bank account balance has been brought up. I'm aware that the guys choice of lifestyle and house are his decisions, the reasons he bitches and moans is to keep his name out there when he is not fighting. Check every MMA forum out there, it works.

On the original subject www.mmaweekly.com have a response from the UFC saying they have not got any say in turning down insurance claims, thats in the hands of their brokers AIG.

dunkamania · 09-10-2008 5:13pm

“The UFC does not have the authority to deny or approve any insurance claims asserted by UFC athletes. Rather, Zuffa purchases medical insurance coverage for the benefit of fighters at levels significantly higher than those required by state athletic commissions. The decision regarding whether a filed claim is valid and therefore approved is determined exclusively through the standard review process of the insurance company AIG.”

ryoishin · 10-10-2008 2:21pm

Thats true but if its a big earner for AIG then UFC would have some influence on the under writer if they were to put the pressure on. But I could nt see the UFC doing it fot Tito.

heres Tito talking about it

http://mmarated.com/videos/v/20081006/tito_ortiz__rated_exclusive_interview-6103.html

Tito Ortiz on his back surgery, UFC and career

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