Lease was up in April. Received new lease today. 4% increase

AmberGold · 08-08-2020 12:18am

You can thank the last Government for forcing Landlords to increase the rent 4% pa.

08-08-2020 1:01am

FionnK86 wrote: »

I've never had a bad landlord. Good landlords get good tenants.

What do good landlords and good tenants look like?

perfectkama · 08-08-2020 3:39am

joeguevara wrote: »

Not necessarily. My mate had a tenant who refused to pay for 18 months. Credit rating screwed and house wrecked.

My worst experience was bridewell ringing me saying I was given as a character reference. Tenant had moved in day before and found with 1kg of cocaine. Luckily he left the minute he got bail.

When letting did he not notice the handcuffs would have been a red flag to most LLs

size5 · 08-08-2020 1:58pm

joeguevara wrote: »

I have an apartment that I rent out to a couple for the last 6 years I think. Never raised the rent and never had an issue with them. Literally they wouldn’t be able to survive if they paid market rate. I make up the shortfall (500) a month for the mortgage. During Covid, I told them that I didn’t expect rent but they paid without fail.

On the flip side, my mate who is a plumber fixed something there and told me they have it like a palace. The one thing that I worry about is when they leave, I’m stuck at the rate I gave them plus 4% to the next tenant.

But delighted to hear stories like yours. When it works it works.

I would be wary of doing the above. First of all if you have not increased the rent for 6 years, the property is not attracting market rent. You have already identified the problem that all is well until your excellent tenants move out, if you need to sell it is unlikely that an investor will purchase it. My advise is if you have excellent tenants you don't need to increase the rent every year BUT maybe every second year as least keep the rent close to the market rate

joeguevara · 08-08-2020 6:24pm

size5 wrote: »

I would be wary of doing the above. First of all if you have not increased the rent for 6 years, the property is not attracting market rent. You have already identified the problem that all is well until your excellent tenants move out, if you need to sell it is unlikely that an investor will purchase it. My advise is if you have excellent tenants you don't need to increase the rent every year BUT maybe every second year as least keep the rent close to the market rate

Completely agree.

08-08-2020 10:45pm

joeguevara wrote: »

It is going to be very interesting to see if the work from home will continue. I hated it when I had to do it for the short period. Not that it wasn't nice but definitely too many distractions.

Most would have the opposite opinion. Most people I know including myself are working from home full time since early March. I had been working from home semi-regularly prior to this but not full time and if I could stay working from home most/all of the time I gladly would. It’s just all positives for me personally and I’m hearing the same from most others also.

I will probably make a brief appearance back at work towards the end of August but I intend to make it clear that I think it’s unsafe to be in an office needlessly and I will go back to working from home as long as possible. Other friends going back to the office hasn’t even been mentioned.

All this to say, working from home regularly if not full time is hopefully here to stay for a lot of people.

runawaybishop · 08-08-2020 11:35pm

i_surge wrote: »

Brave landlord jacking up the price in a declining economy. I was of the impression this can be reviewed every few years, not annually.

I advise the OP to move out of principle.

The government forces them to raise it because in a downturn they won't get any protection.

09-08-2020 12:13am

dennyk wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this; your landlord was legally obligated to wait until the freeze expired, as it wasn't permissible to conduct a rent review during the freeze period. Now that it has, they are moving ahead with their planned rent review. Why would the timing annoy you? Were it not for the rent review freeze, you'd have been paying a higher rent since April; now you won't be paying it until November (as they must give you 90 days notice via a valid rent review notice before the new rent takes effect).

Thanks for the lengthy reply (thanks everyone who did reply).

I'll elaborate on this a bit. I wanted to sign a new lease in April, as we do every year. We didn't this because of restrictions. I reached out again, not sure exactly when, I think mid June but he still wasn't happy to meet up. Again this felt completely reasonable and the LL is in his 70's. I'm hardly gonna push him to meet face to face in a global pandemic. Then a few days after the rent freeze ends, he's all for meeting up. That's what I mean by the timing irritating me. Restrictions almost felt like an excuse to delay.

But after reading this thread, even if I did sign a lease at that time, he would have been in his right to ask for a rent increase at this time regardless, is that correct?

joeguevara · 09-08-2020 12:14am

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for the lengthy reply (thanks everyone who did reply).

I'll elaborate on this a bit. I wanted to sign a new lease in April, as we do every year. We didn't this because of restrictions. I reached out again, not sure exactly when, I think mid June but he still wasn't happy to meet up. Again this felt completely reasonable and the LL is in his 70's. I'm hardly gonna push him to meet face to face in a global pandemic. Then a few days after the rent freeze ends, he's all for meeting up. That's what I mean by the timing irritating me. Restrictions almost felt like an excuse to delay.

But after reading this thread, even if I did sign a lease at that time, he would have been in his right to ask for a rent increase at this time regardless, is that correct?

Yes

09-08-2020 1:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for the lengthy reply (thanks everyone who did reply).

I'll elaborate on this a bit. I wanted to sign a new lease in April, as we do every year. We didn't this because of restrictions. I reached out again, not sure exactly when, I think mid June but he still wasn't happy to meet up. Again this felt completely reasonable and the LL is in his 70's. I'm hardly gonna push him to meet face to face in a global pandemic. Then a few days after the rent freeze ends, he's all for meeting up. That's what I mean by the timing irritating me. Restrictions almost felt like an excuse to delay.

But after reading this thread, even if I did sign a lease at that time, he would have been in his right to ask for a rent increase at this time regardless, is that correct?

I can’t see your issue he was obviously waiting until restrictions lifted so that he could issue the rent increase. Why would he do the lease when he couldn't raise the rent??

You are talking like it’s something underhand or he wasn’t within his rights. It is totally obvious why he held off.

09-08-2020 1:25am

I'd just be repeating myself at this point. I've always signed a new lease immediately after the old one expired; this being the only exception.

The_Conductor · 09-08-2020 9:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

Wondering where I stand on this

My lease ended last April. We didn't sign a new lease. Usually we would. We were due a 4% increase but that didn't happen due to covid. Landlord got in touch today to let us know he wants to sign a new lease. Covid rent freeze ended last week so he wants to increase by 4%.

Due to the nature of rolling leases, does this mean we should be keeping the original rent for a year until April 2021?

I wouldn't usually try to angle shoot like this but it's just the timing of it has annoyed me. He clearly done it himself by waiting until the end of this rent freeze.

Unfortunately- to use your own term- you are angle shooting here.
The landlord, in this case, is entitled to perform a rent review- which by my reckoning, inclusive of notice period and cognisant of the fact the 4% per annum rise is on a prorata basis- he/she could in theory increase the rent by 6% (as fully 18 months will have passed since the last rent review, notwithstanding the Covid period).

You are perfectly within your rights to refuse to sign a new lease- and remain in the property on a Part IV tenancy basis. Note- a lease cannot detract from your rights under a Part IV tenancy- it may actually be in your benefit to sign the lease if the landlord is giving you additional rights which you would not normally have under a Part IV tenancy- and if he/she puts any clauses in the lease which diminish your Part IV rights- they are wholly unenforceable.

All told- I'd keep quiet about the fact that the rent rise could potentially be 6%- pay the 4%- have a look at the lease with someone who is familiar with leases, and if there is nothing untoward in it- its up to you whether you sign it or not.

You'll not get out of the 4% rent rise though.

The_Conductor · 09-08-2020 9:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd just be repeating myself at this point. I've always signed a new lease immediately after the old one expired; this being the only exception.

Just to reiterate- a new lease may give you additional rights that you would not necessarily have under a Part IV lease- however, it cannot detract from your rights under a Part IV lease in any manner.

Ball really is in your court (regarding the lease). Balance of probability- if I intended to stay- I'd sign the lease (providing there was nothing strange in it).

09-08-2020 10:03am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd just be repeating myself at this point. I've always signed a new lease immediately after the old one expired; this being the only exception.

But there is a very valid reason for the exception, nothing proceeded as normal during covid so why would this be any different.

dennyk · 09-08-2020 11:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for the lengthy reply (thanks everyone who did reply).

I'll elaborate on this a bit. I wanted to sign a new lease in April, as we do every year. We didn't this because of restrictions. I reached out again, not sure exactly when, I think mid June but he still wasn't happy to meet up. Again this felt completely reasonable and the LL is in his 70's. I'm hardly gonna push him to meet face to face in a global pandemic. Then a few days after the rent freeze ends, he's all for meeting up. That's what I mean by the timing irritating me. Restrictions almost felt like an excuse to delay.

But after reading this thread, even if I did sign a lease at that time, he would have been in his right to ask for a rent increase at this time regardless, is that correct?

If you had signed a new fixed term one-year lease back in April, then no, the landlord wouldn't have been able to raise your rent right now; they'd have had to wait until the end of the lease to conduct a rent review. A fixed term lease sets the rent for the duration and the rent can't be changed during the lease term, regardless of the statutory rules around the timing of rent reviews. The landlord isn't obligated to enter into a new lease with you at any point, though, just like you aren't obligated to enter into one.

Sounds like the landlord didn't want to commit to another full year fixed term lease at the old rent amount and chose to wait until the rent freeze was over before offering you a new lease at the higher rent, which is a perfectly reasonable decision from their perspective. You got several more months at your old lower rent amount out of it, and from the sound of it you're only getting a 4% rent rise instead of the maximum allowable amount based on the RPZ rules, so you're coming out well ahead in any case. (Remember that your next rent review won't happen until one year after this one, either; the landlord won't be able to review the rent next April if he does a review this month...)

Graham · 09-08-2020 11:25am

dennyk wrote: »

If you had signed a new fixed term one-year lease back in April, then no, the landlord wouldn't have been able to raise your rent right now; they'd have had to wait until the end of the lease to conduct a rent review. A fixed term lease sets the rent for the duration and the rent can't be changed during the lease term, regardless of the statutory rules around the timing of rent reviews.

Is there a legal reason a lease can't provide for a rent review during the fixed term? I know it's not standard, just wondering why.

The_Conductor · 09-08-2020 11:28am

Graham wrote: »

Is there a legal reason a lease can't provide for a rent review during the fixed term? I know it's not standard, just wondering why.

None. However, if the rent is specified in a new fixed term lease (and it normally is) this could be construed as a rent review- and good luck arguing at the RTB that the intent was otherwise.

From a landlord's perspective- unless they are specifically doing a rent review- it is best not to mention the rent in absolute terms. From a tenant's perspective- if it is mentioned- its best to lock it in- as it is then term delineated from the date of commencement of the lease.

Its a game of who has greater rights- and the balance of rights- is firmly in the tenant's court.

Graham · 09-08-2020 11:36am

That makes sense. I can't see any way it couldn't be seen as anything other than a rent review.

brisan · 25-08-2020 11:00am

joeguevara wrote: »

It is going to be very interesting to see if the work from home will continue. I hated it when I had to do it for the short period. Not that it wasn't nice but definitely too many distractions.

You may get used to it
WFH is here to stay for the foreseeable future
Ask all the food retail shops in the CHQ.
Their businesses have been decimated

brisan · 25-08-2020 11:02am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

It will for a lot of places, or at least part time WFH. The technical issues for those who can do it are mostly ironed out at this stage. Teams and Zoom are constantly updating and have opened up to third party apps.

Every business must be considering it at least. The money to be saved is astronomical.

OP have a look at properties in the area and see what the prices/demand is. Might be worth pushing back on the increase. 4% isn't a lot to give up for a good tenant. The LL might have difficulty renting it out. Even a month or two lost rent would put him in the red compared to the increase.

Some landlords are giving a months free rent so that they can keep the headline rent

brisan · 25-08-2020 11:08am

size5 wrote: »

I would be wary of doing the above. First of all if you have not increased the rent for 6 years, the property is not attracting market rent. You have already identified the problem that all is well until your excellent tenants move out, if you need to sell it is unlikely that an investor will purchase it. My advise is if you have excellent tenants you don't need to increase the rent every year BUT maybe every second year as least keep the rent close to the market rate

Only anecdotal but how many landlords give new tenants a notice of what the previous rent was.
How many tenants look for it.
Very few in my experience.

Eric Cartman · 25-08-2020 11:08am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Unfortunately- to use your own term- you are angle shooting here.
The landlord, in this case, is entitled to perform a rent review- which by my reckoning, inclusive of notice period and cognisant of the fact the 4% per annum rise is on a prorata basis- he/she could in theory increase the rent by 6% (as fully 18 months will have passed since the last rent review, notwithstanding the Covid period).

You are perfectly within your rights to refuse to sign a new lease- and remain in the property on a Part IV tenancy basis. Note- a lease cannot detract from your rights under a Part IV tenancy- it may actually be in your benefit to sign the lease if the landlord is giving you additional rights which you would not normally have under a Part IV tenancy- and if he/she puts any clauses in the lease which diminish your Part IV rights- they are wholly unenforceable.

All told- I'd keep quiet about the fact that the rent rise could potentially be 6%- pay the 4%- have a look at the lease with someone who is familiar with leases, and if there is nothing untoward in it- its up to you whether you sign it or not.

You'll not get out of the 4% rent rise though.

this whole post, and especially the bit at the end. The landlord has been completely above board.

Saudades · 25-08-2020 4:58pm

Can the landlord still include the 4 full calendar months of the rent freeze period (27 March to 1 August 2020) during a rent review calculation?

I would have thought that those 4 months would be null and void, otherwise that whole period was not really a rent freeze at all, it would just have been a rent 'deferral'.

JoChervil · 25-08-2020 5:21pm

I have thought that in RPZ, rent can only be increased by 4% every second year for a continuing tenancy (and only, if you can find 3 houses/apartments in the area for that new price). There are different calculators for old tenancies and new tenancies.

The_Conductor · 25-08-2020 5:35pm

JoChervil wrote: »

I have thought that in RPZ, rent can only be increased by 4% every second year for a continuing tenancy (and only, if you can find 3 houses/apartments in the area for that new price). There are different calculators for old tenancies and new tenancies.

That was for the initial review for a pre-existing tenancy before the legislation came in. It only applies for the initial review for a pre-existing tenancy- subsequent reviews are allowable on an annual basis.

JimmyVik · 26-08-2020 9:27am

Deleted User wrote: »

Been in the property 4+ years. Rent went up April 2019 by 4%. It was due to go up by 4% again in April 2020 but that didn't happen due to covid.

He can actually increase it by more than 4% if he wants.

JimmyVik · 26-08-2020 9:50am

Camdyn Thankful Photographer wrote: »

Most would have the opposite opinion. Most people I know including myself are working from home full time since early March. I had been working from home semi-regularly prior to this but not full time and if I could stay working from home most/all of the time I gladly would. It’s just all positives for me personally and I’m hearing the same from most others also.

I will probably make a brief appearance back at work towards the end of August but I intend to make it clear that I think it’s unsafe to be in an office needlessly and I will go back to working from home as long as possible. Other friends going back to the office hasn’t even been mentioned.

All this to say, working from home regularly if not full time is hopefully here to stay for a lot of people.

Everyone in my company was due back this week. A few who had moved home, moved back to Dublin a few weeks ago. The company have extended the WFH now to the last week in September. All the guys who moved back already are now stuck renting in Dublin when they could have just waited to see. They thought they were getting in ahead of the crowd and it backfired unfortunately.

Lease was up in April. Received new lease today. 4% increase

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