Greatest Irish Person

ejmaztec · 28-03-2010 8:52pm

trapsagenius wrote: »

I hope Dev gets it, for obvious reasons.

If there was a list of people who could have done a lot better, but didn't, he would be at the top of the list, but I wouldn't put the sneaky devil on a pedestal and say that he was the greatest Irishman.

paddyland · 28-03-2010 10:57pm

trapsagenius wrote: »

I hope Dev gets it, for obvious reasons.

Everything that is rotten in Irish society today can find a large part of it's genesis in the society that years and years of Fianna Fáil government of this country created, and everything that is rotten in Fianna Fáil can find it's genesis in the machinations of de Valera to create a state where he would be able to hold onto power almost unchallenged.

De Valera twisted everything in this country to the prime purpose of remaining in power, and Fianna Fáil today have followed this model, to the eventual complete destruction of the economy, and so many facets of decent society. Perhaps I am being harsh, but de Valera is up there, either wittingly or unwittingly, as one of the architects of this failed country we are trying to make head or tail of today.

He is a hundred miles from being one of Ireland's greatest people.

CDfm · 28-03-2010 11:20pm

paddyland wrote: »

.

He is a hundred miles from being one of Ireland's greatest people.

I agree somewhat - but he was also a product of his time and dont forget that the Ireland he grew up in had 10% of the population in sod huts according to the 1890 census and how many others in tenements.

He was also a maths teacher who became a revolutionary so the likelyhood of him being a guy with a plan. Revoloutionaries often go bad.

So while on the plus side there is not a lot ,equally, on the minus side he was no Franco, Mussolini or Tito or any of the other European beauties.

patff · 28-03-2010 11:55pm

It has to be Father Ted, and if not him Tony Cascarino. Do fictional Irishmen count?

Flamed Diving · 29-03-2010 11:49am

patff wrote: »

It has to be Father Ted, and if not him Tony Cascarino. Do fictional Irishmen count?

Pat, Father Ted is real...

:rolleyes:

Eliot Rosewater · 29-03-2010 3:30pm

I voted for W.B. Yeats. I wasn't interested in picking a politician because their winning wouldn't be any inherent sign of greatness; it would just mean that lots of people who agree with their world view (no matter how destructive) voted too.

I haven't actually read much of Yeats (or any of the other authors on the list) but I think very highly of what I have. His poetry often deals with Irish issues too, such as the obvious Easter 1916.

Morlar · 29-03-2010 4:41pm

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I wasn't interested in picking a politician because their winning wouldn't be any inherent sign of greatness; it would just mean that lots of people who agree with their world view

Out of curiosity - did you pick Yeats because you admired him as a capable poet or for the substance of the things he said or some combination of both ?

I would also have preferred Jack B Yeats to be on this list & it goes without saying that stephen gately should not be included. I can think of 'Greatest shelf stackers in Tescoes' who make more of a contribution and would be ahead of him on this list in my view.

For me much as I would admire the Yeats' contribution to Irish society & intellectual life it would be down to Daniel O Connell, Wolfe Tone, Parnell, Pearse, Collins and DeValera. In my view it's really between Wolfe Tone, Pearse and Collins & De Valera.

Lauder · 29-03-2010 5:50pm

Very surprised not to see Wellington there. No other Irishman has had such an influence on the world.

Some very low-brow names there too...(Daniel O'Donnell???, Adi Roche?,, Bono? Colin Farrell, etc..) Bit of a mockery really.

Also, were is Edmund Burke? Henry Grattan? Edward Carson? Montgomery?

steerforth80 · 29-03-2010 5:59pm

great to see Irish musicains of the calibre of Keating and Gately get in to the nominations before Liam Clancy and Luke Kelly!!!!

sean corcoran · 29-03-2010 6:02pm

i think either micheal collins or james connolly

Eliot Rosewater · 29-03-2010 6:32pm

Morlar wrote: »

Out of curiosity - did you pick Yeats because you admired him as a capable poet or for the substance of the things he said or some combination of both ?

As a poet only. I would never insult an artist (or, in fact, literature in general) by judging a piece of art of the basis of my agreement or disagreement with the political views therein. Judging a book on the basis of its politics is an easy thing to do, but it's close to useless, in my opinion.

Norwayviking · 29-03-2010 6:39pm

Dummy wrote: »

I heard this being discussed on the radio yesterday morning. Our chance to vote for the Greatest Irish Person. And I'm not on it ?????

Anyways, I thought this might belong in the History Forum as there are a lot of interesting people that make up and have become part of the fabric that is our colourful history. But Mods, move it if you don't think it appropriate here.

Here's the linky - http://www.rte.ie/tv/irelandsgreatest/index.html

I'm looking forward to hearing the results.

D

My wife and Brian Bóruma mac Cennétig,English: Brian Boru (c. 941–23 April 1014) the viking slayer

brianthebard · 29-03-2010 6:48pm

Don't spam. Mod.

Rebelheart · 30-03-2010 12:47am

Three pages and not a single mention in the History forum of the most important figure in Irish history over the past 1000 years: Aodh Mór Ó Néill (1550-1616)

It would seem for some people that an Anglo-Irish guy named Colley/Wesley/Wellesley who fought for the British Empire's stranglehold over indigenous populations is deserving of recognition as an "Irishman" while Irishmen who fought for Irish freedom from English domination don't get a look-in.

As that old poet perceptively put it following the Cromwellian conquest about the new Ireland that was being created: "the Irish become the foreigners and the foreigners become the Irish". How very true.

bigeasyeah · 30-03-2010 1:10am

Rebelheart wrote: »

Three pages and not a single mention in the History forum of the most important figure in Irish history over the past 1000 years: Aodh Mór Ó Néill (1550-1616)

It would seem for some people that an Anglo-Irish guy named Colley/Wesley/Wellesley who fought for the British Empire's stranglehold over indigenous populations is deserving of recognition as an "Irishman" while Irishmen who fought for Irish freedom from English domination don't get a look-in.

As that old poet perceptively put it following the Cromwellian conquest about the new Ireland that was being created: "the Irish become the foreigners and the foreigners become the Irish". How very true.

Is this a serious post? The question is in earnest.

Rebelheart · 30-03-2010 1:13am

bigeasyeah wrote: »

Arthur Wellesley,1st Duke of Wellington.

Is this a serious post? The question is in earnest.

Morlar · 30-03-2010 12:00pm

Rebelheart wrote: »

Is this a serious post? The question is in earnest.

Well he was Irish and he was a lot more historically significant than many others on that list. This isn't the list of 'Greatest Irish Republicans' so it's logical for some to want him included don't you think ?

Rebelheart · 30-03-2010 6:22pm

Morlar wrote: »

Well he was Irish and he was a lot more historically significant than many others on that list. This isn't the list of 'Greatest Irish Republicans' so it's logical for some to want him included don't you think ?

With respect, since when did "historical significance" equate with "greatness"? Bingham, Hitler, Genghis, Cromwell, Gilbert etc were also "historically significant".

This guy, Arthur Wesley, fought to defend the entirely immoral project that is known as the British Empire. While tens of thousands of Irish people were being massacred by the British Empire in Ireland in the 1790s this guy was upholding that empire in India and other places. With such morals, what, pray tell, makes him "great"?

Anybody who reckons Wesley qualifies as one of the "greatest" Irish people is clearly expressing a moral preference for the violence of the British Empire over other political violence.

CDfm · 30-03-2010 6:41pm

In this context great is someone significant and of substance. In his era Ireland and Britain were the same Kingdom and he became its greatest General & Prime Minister.

The JFK of his day and he was a World Leader up there with the Greatest.

You might as well scratch Geldof of the list -what has he ever done for Ireland.

Flamed Diving · 30-03-2010 8:03pm

Does being the greatest Irish person mean that you had to do something for your country?

I wouldn't have thought so.

Rebelheart · 30-03-2010 8:14pm

CDfm wrote: »

In this context great is someone significant and of substance. In his era Ireland and Britain were the same Kingdom and he became its greatest General & Prime Minister.

The JFK of his day and he was a World Leader up there with the Greatest.

You might as well scratch Geldof of the list -what has he ever done for Ireland.

The list is shíte, I'll give you that: the very fact that Aodh Mór Ó Néill, the man who achieved Ireland's greatest military victories against the English in open battle (Eoghan Rua Ó Néill in Benburb in 1646 is behind him) is not on it speaks to that fact. But that ceolán Louis Walsh managed to get on it....

Nevertheless, by your above definition of 'greatness' then Hitler is one of Germany's "greatest" people, and Cromwell is one of England's 'greatest' people?

But what did Arthur Wesley ever do for Ireland? His benefit to Britain is clear. I, however, mean Irish Ireland not colonial Ireland.

By the by, saying Ireland and Britain was the same kingdom sounds just a bit too keen to accept the British state's little invention, the Act of Union, and disregard the fact that the Irish people had no say in the creation of that supposedly "united" kingdom. There's another history there screaming under the suffocation of your nice neat little civilised sentence of "unity", the history of Cáth Chéim an Fhia in 1822 and much else which resisted that artificial British nationalist political imposition upon Irish society, the Act of Union, which you have, alas, clearly accepted as the only legitimate narrative of this period in Irish history.

Rebelheart · 30-03-2010 8:19pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Does being the greatest Irish person mean that you had to do something for your country?

I wouldn't have thought so.

Well, that is probably perfectly true if you are a scientist who has given enormous advantages to the world. No problems there.

However, if your "greatness" is based upon defending the very state which is occupying your home country, as was the case with Arthur Wesley, that is an entirely different matter, in my view. Would Vidkun Quisling, for instance, be considered a "great" Norwegian, considering he was clearly 'someone significant and of substance'?

Permabear · 31-03-2010 1:41am

This post has been deleted.

major bill · 31-03-2010 1:45am

charles stewart parnell would get my vote!!!!!

wolfe tone would be a close second.

sorry for not discussing it more!!!!:P

CDfm · 31-03-2010 9:55am

Rebelheart wrote: »

The list is shíte, I'll give you that: the very fact that Aodh Mór Ó Néill, the man who achieved Ireland's greatest military victories against the English in open battle (Eoghan Rua Ó Néill in Benburb in 1646 is behind him) is not on it speaks to that fact. But that ceolán Louis Walsh managed to get on it....

*resisting Jedward quips*

So politics aside can we put a list together as I am sure that both Wellington and Aodh Mor O Neill are streets ahead of Louis Walsh and merit inclusion before him.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

major bill wrote: »

charles stewart parnell would get my vote!!!!!

wolfe tone would be a close second.

sorry for not discussing it more!!!!:P

We should be putting forward a proper list with merit for inclusion and probably put a poll together.

It would be a nice way of showing of the History Forum on Boards.

Boardsies love votes.

We could probably follow it up with the greatest Irish Scumbag from History -which could be fun too

Martin 2 · 07-04-2010 6:06pm

The result of the poll (see OP) in alphabetical order is:

1 Bono (1960 – )

2 Noel Browne (1915 – 1997)

3 Michael Collins (1890 – 1922)

4 James Connolly (1868 – 1916)

5 Stephen Gately (1976 – 2009)

6 John Hume (1937 – )

7 Phil Lynott (1951 - 1986)

8 Pádraig Pearse (1879 – 1916)

9 Mary Robinson (1944 – )

10 Adi Roche (1955 – )

Source: Irish Independent

RTE are going to make TV documentaries on 5 of these greats and then have a vote to determine the number one.

Disappointed that there are no writers or scientists in the list but happy that John Hume and Noel Browne made it.

McCruiskeen · 07-04-2010 6:19pm

Martin 2 wrote: »

The result of the poll (see OP) in alphabetical order is:

5 Stephen Gately (1976 – 2009)

FFS, with the greatest respect all he has ever done is make crappy music and then go and die.

This is embarressing.

Would the US vote for Justin Timberlake as the greatest ever american??

How could any intelligent person vote for him? And these people can also vote in general elections (I guess that explains the state of the country).

CDfm · 07-04-2010 6:36pm

Disappointed Dana didnt make the cut when Adi Roche and Mary Robinson did.

The list makes Dustin as a Eurovision entry less embarressing.

SlabMurphy · 07-04-2010 6:38pm

Lauder wrote: »

Very surprised not to see Wellington there. No other Irishman has had such an influence on the world.

Some very low-brow names there too...(Daniel O'Donnell???, Adi Roche?,, Bono? Colin Farrell, etc..) Bit of a mockery really.

Also, were is Edmund Burke? Henry Grattan? Edward Carson? Montgomery?

Well if Arthur Wellesley is seen fit to be on it, then why not have Lord Haw Haw William Joyce on it as well as he was just as much an ' Irishman ' as Wellesley.

SlabMurphy · 07-04-2010 6:40pm

CDfm wrote: »

Disappointed Dana didnt make the cut when Adi Roche and Mary Robinson did.

The list makes Dustin as a Eurovision entry less embarressing.

Yes if Daniel O'Donnell and Stephen Gately could make it on the list why not Dustin.

Greatest Irish Person

Comments