Is it now legal to hold both UK and Irish driver's licences?

bmr1984 · 15-01-2021 6:09pm #1

I live in Ireland, work in the UK. I'd like to hold on to my UK licence for work purposes. I realise it would be easier to exchange, I understand I'll have to do the 12 lessons and sit the test again etc.

I rang the NDLS to see if I could now apply for my Learners Permit here seen as the UK is no longer an EU Member. The young lady categorically stated I could not and tried to quote a Traffic Act she had read but couldn't recite the name of.

The NDLS website states the following:
However, on taking up 'normal residence' in Ireland you must either exchange your driving licence or apply for a driving licence in Ireland.

I think the Traffic Act she might have been referring to is:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/683/made/en/print

Citizens information says the following about Recognised States:
If you become normally resident in Ireland, you should exchange your driving licence or begin the process of applying for an Irish driving licence.

So if it's illegal to drive in Ireland now on a UK licence, can it be true that our only option to drive here is to forfeit the UK one?

wotzgoingon · 15-01-2021 10:51pm

I don't know the legal side of it but when my cousin went to England he got a English license and when he was banned on Irish one he used his English license and when banned on his English license he used his Irish one. He was banned a few times but this was about 20 years ago. I can't talk I was banned for 2 years many years ago as well.

murphm45 · 16-01-2021 12:20am

I'm pretty sure you can have both, how would they know? Surely it's no different to having say an American or Australian licence along with an Irish one. Someone I know has a full English license and irish learner permit since before Brexit so I just can't imagine they changed that with the act you referred to.

I'm not an expert so more than happy to be corrected but I suspect there was some crossed wires with the lady you were talking to.

I'd say just apply for the learner permit and just don't mention your UK license.

Best of luck with your lessons and test!

16-01-2021 12:50am

Uk license is no longer valid for residents but can still be exchanged without a test so do that and when in the UK, apply for a new uk one.

"From the 1 January 2021 if you are resident in Ireland and hold a UK/NI driving licence it is no longer valid to drive on here in Ireland. It is not legal for driving purposes and must therefore be exchanged.

UK/N.I licence holders resident in Ireland can exchange their licence for an Irish licence provided the licence being exchanged is valid for exchange and is not expired for more than 1 year." (https://www.ndls.ie/help/faq.html#centre-updates-find-out-more)

ongarite · 16-01-2021 12:51am

Your UK license is no longer valid for use in Ireland since 11pm on 31st December last 2020.

If you don't have Irish license right now, legally you shouldn't be on the road and if stopped by Gardai you will be charged with driving without license.

However, anyone living in Ireland who has not yet exchanged their UK licence will no longer have a valid licence to drive here after tonight’s deadline.

The UK licence will only be valid for exchange purposes and the department said “it is imperative that it be exchanged immediately”.

The change only applied to UK licence holders living in the Republic of Ireland, not people living in Northern Ireland or people visiting or driving in the State.

Wishbone Ash · 16-01-2021 6:21am

bmr1984 wrote: »

I live in Ireland, work in the UK. I'd like to hold on to my UK licence for work purposes...

You do realise that if you apply for a ROI learner permit, you won't be permitted to drive in the UK and will be required to be accompanied by a person with a ROI licence?

If you need you licence for working it the UK, I can't see how you're going to manage it.

Del2005 · 16-01-2021 10:08am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You do realise that if you apply for a ROI learner permit, you won't be permitted to drive in the UK and will be required to be accompanied by a person with a ROI licence?

If you need you licence for working it the UK, I can't see how you're going to manage it.

If caught driving unaccompanied on your learners permit your car will be lifted. You will also have to pay a lot more for insurance when you get quotes for your learners permit.

16-01-2021 12:55pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You do realise that if you apply for a ROI learner permit, you won't be permitted to drive in the UK and will be required to be accompanied by a person with a ROI licence?

If you need you licence for working it the UK, I can't see how you're going to manage it.

if he applies for a learner permit here it wont have any effect on his uk license

Wishbone Ash · 16-01-2021 1:11pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

if he applies for a learner permit here it wont have any effect on his uk license

It is my understanding that you may not hold driving licences issued in different jurisdictions. If he/she applies for a ROI learner permit, he/she will have to surrender their UK licence. Much easier to simply exchange the licence as the ROI licence will be valid in the UK.

golondrinas1 · 16-01-2021 1:19pm

Your licence must reflect the country you are mainly resident / taxed in . End of. The Dept. Of Transport recently spent a fortune encouraging people resident here to surrender their British Driving Licence. Duh.!!

bmr1984 · 16-01-2021 2:53pm

Thanks for the replies everyone. I did of course hear all the ads about exchanging over the last few months. I just (wrongly) assumed that post-Brexit, I'd be able to apply for a Learner here and keep the UK one for when I need to drive there. I thought you couldn't hold two EU licences, whereas it seems you cannot hold two licences full-stop. Thanks again for the insight.

elperello · 16-01-2021 3:31pm

I know several people who hold or have held US driving licences and Irish driving licences at the same time.

The UK is now a third country so who would know if you held a UK licence and an Irish one?

sundodger5 · 16-01-2021 3:39pm

Hate to say it but you insurance is invalid also.Gardai twitter recently had a post with someone using UK licence.
Car impounded plus upcoming prosecution.

bmr1984 · 16-01-2021 3:39pm

elperello wrote: »

I know several people who hold or have held US driving licences and Irish driving licences at the same time.

The UK is now a third country so who would know if you held a UK licence and an Irish one?

Thanks elperello. I guess the US is different because it's not a Recognised State. They do have to sit their test again regardless. And if I applied for a Learner here while still holding the UK one, it seems like from what the guys above have said, it would be an offense.

Insurance companies could probably use it as a reason for not paying out in the event of an accident. I have held insurance here while using my UK licence.

Just FYI, I am not driving at all until I have this all sorted as per the RSA's instructions. Before anyone tells me off

tcawley29 · 16-01-2021 5:06pm

elperello wrote: »

I know several people who hold or have held US driving licences and Irish driving licences at the same time.

The UK is now a third country so who would know if you held a UK licence and an Irish one?

I hold US and Irish

16-01-2021 7:42pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It is my understanding that you may not hold driving licences issued in different jurisdictions. If he/she applies for a ROI learner permit, he/she will have to surrender their UK licence. Much easier to simply exchange the licence as the ROI licence will be valid in the UK.

Not within the EU

Not every license is recognised here so if you get a permit here why cant you keep the original license from a non EU nation?

16-01-2021 7:44pm

golondrinas1 wrote: »

Your licence must reflect the country you are mainly resident / taxed in . End of. The Dept. Of Transport recently spent a fortune encouraging people resident here to surrender their British Driving Licence. Duh.!!

Can you point out the Chinese law that states that?

or even the EU one in fact as its wrong. Any EU license is valid in Ireland even for residents until such time as it naturally expires. At that stage the renewal should reflect your residency ie Polish licenses that last until 70 years of age need not be changed until the holder is 70 even if they have been here for the past 30 years

16-01-2021 7:45pm

bmr1984 wrote: »

Thanks elperello. I guess the US is different because it's not a Recognised State. They do have to sit their test again regardless. And if I applied for a Learner here while still holding the UK one, it seems like from what the guys above have said, it would be an offense.

Insurance companies could probably use it as a reason for not paying out in the event of an accident. I have held insurance here while using my UK licence.

Just FYI, I am not driving at all until I have this all sorted as per the RSA's instructions. Before anyone tells me off

theres no such thing as a US license, some states are recognised while some are not

Del2005 · 16-01-2021 8:35pm

tcawley29 wrote: »

I hold US and Irish

Just because its possible to have driving licences from 2 countries doesn't make it legal to have them.

Dec2020 · 16-01-2021 8:44pm

Does anyone know how long it takes to get a UK license exchanged for an Irish one?

murphm45 · 17-01-2021 3:52am

Del2005 wrote: »

Just because its possible to have driving licences from 2 countries doesn't make it legal to have them.

It can't possibly be illegal to hold different driving licences for different countries? Are you telling me that if I spend say 6 months in Ireland and 6 months in Canada I can only get a driving licence for one of those countries and for 6 months of the year I can't drive? If that is the case can you point out the legislative basis for that as I find it impossible to believe that any country would design a law that is so pointless (what could be the possible benefit of preventing someone holding more than one licence?) and almost impossible to enforce (how would they know if someone had a licence for another country, is there some international driver licence database? Sorry I know that sounds sarcastic but it's a genuine question if such a law exists)

My understanding of the rules is that if you have a uk licence it's not valid for use in Ireland (or anywhere else in the EU) so if you're driving and relying solely on it you aren't legally allowed to drive. You can, if you wish exchange it for an Irish licence in which case the UK one is forfeited for an Irish one. If, however, you apply for and get an Irish learner permit you are allowed to drive here subject to the relevant rules (i.e. being accompanied, being insured as a learner etc) and the existence of your UK licence is moot but you'll retain it for use on the UK if you want.

Happy to be corrected on this but if someone could point out the flaw (and a reference to the legislation) in the above I'd appreciate it. As I said I know someone who has both a full UK licence and an Irish learner permit for a while, I think more than a year, and they've had no issues.

Also, how do hauliers manage? Surely, assuming they travel in both jurisdictions, they need a licence for the UK and the EU now, no?

Del2005 · 17-01-2021 4:06am

murphm45 wrote: »

It can't possibly be illegal to hold different driving licences for different countries? Are you telling me that if I spend say 6 months in Ireland and 6 months in Canada I can only get a driving licence for one of those countries and for 6 months of the year I can't drive? If that is the case can you point out the legislative basis for that as I find it impossible to believe that any country would design a law that is so pointless (what could be the possible benefit of preventing someone holding more than one licence?) and almost impossible to enforce (how would they know if someone had a licence for another country, is there some international driver licence database? Sorry I know that sounds sarcastic but it's a genuine question if such a law exists)

My understanding of the rules is that if you have a uk licence it's not valid for use in Ireland (or anywhere else in the EU) so if you're driving and relying solely on it you aren't legally allowed to drive. You can, if you wish exchange it for an Irish licence in which case the UK one is forfeited for an Irish one. If, however, you apply for and get an Irish learner permit you are allowed to drive here subject to the relevant rules (i.e. being accompanied, being insured as a learner etc) and the existence of your UK licence is moot but you'll retain it for use on the UK if you want.

Happy to be corrected on this but if someone could point out the flaw (and a reference to the legislation) in the above I'd appreciate it. As I said I know someone who has both a full UK licence and an Irish learner permit for a while, I think more than a year, and they've had no issues.

Also, how do hauliers manage? Surely, assuming they travel in both jurisdictions, they need a licence for the UK and the EU now, no?

If you are resident you can drive on your licence for 12 months in most countries before being required to change. So if you live in 2 countries for 6 months you have the licence from where you are resident, usually where you pay your taxes.

They can't enforce it, which is why so many people have 2 or more licences. The whole point of only having 1 licence is that if you get banned you can't use the other countries licence to drive. If you get caught driving after being banned regardless of having another valid licence you will be in serious trouble.

UK residents can still drive in the EU with their licence, so hauliers and tourists are OK. EU residents can't drive on a UK licence.

grogi · 17-01-2021 4:16am

Del2005 wrote: »

Just because its possible to have driving licences from 2 countries doesn't make it legal to have them.

Why not? It is not only legal to hold licenses from two countries, you are permitted to have licenses from two EU countries.
It is extremely difficult to obtain them legally these days, but if you already have them, that's legal.

Del2005 wrote: »

If you are resident you can drive on your licence for 12 months in most countries before being required to change.

Where does it make having second license illegal?

Del2005 wrote: »

They can't enforce it, which is why so many people have 2 or more licences. The whole point of only having 1 licence is that if you get banned you can't use the other countries licence to drive.

Firstly, who is those mysterious THEY?

Secondly, in many jurisdictions you are not allowed to drive if you are disqualified from driving in other state, regardless how many licenses you have obtained.

If you get caught driving after being banned regardless of having another valid licence you will be in serious trouble.

What does it have to do with having two licenses?

UK residents can still drive in the EU with their licence, so hauliers and tourists are OK. EU residents can't drive on a UK licence.

But EU residents can have two licenses. The only requirement is to have EU license if you're EU resident.

The only relevant thing is that within EU you shouldn't be able to obtain a driving license by having license from other member state without giving up the latter. But it is not illegal to have two.

TheBoyConor · 17-01-2021 4:17am

On a related note, now that the UK is a foreign country, would this mean that Brit & Nordie drivers would no longer receive points or fines for breaking speed limits and other penalty point offences?

Cookie_Monster · 17-01-2021 7:00am

If you get a licence in another country you are supposed to hand in your Irish one in exchange, sometimes its enforced, sometimes not. I have NZ and Irish, but my wife had to give up her Irish one as the person who processed her's was more onto it. Ireland and Germany are apparently the only two countries who enforce this

hurleronditch · 17-01-2021 7:39am

tcawley29 wrote: »

I hold US and Irish

I do too, well I did, but I think my US may have no expired - but it clearly said in the fine print on the US licence application that the onus was on me to hand back any international licences to whatever jurisdiction they were issued from immediately, but they don’t enforce this.

One question I have on the UK licences being illegal - if Bob from London flies to Ireland for a week playing golf (forget about covid for a second), does this mean he can’t walk in to hertz or Avis and rent a car?

Darc19 · 17-01-2021 8:11am

sundodger5 wrote: »

Hate to say it but you insurance is invalid also.Gardai twitter recently had a post with someone using UK licence.
Car impounded plus upcoming prosecution.

Tabloid rubbish.

Car was impounded for no insurance.

https://twitter.com/Ga.../1349297637791449089
UK license was just mentioned in the tweet but had no bearing in the offenses.

arccosh · 17-01-2021 10:08am

legally, I had to hand in my Irish licence for a UK one after being there for 2 years...

would I have been caught if I didn't... no...

if I had an accident or was brought to court though and they found out I had passed the 2 year mark without trading it... technically I was driving without a licence and as a result no insurance I was informed (I drove a lot for work so was informed by HR to change my licence or I had no job as they couldn't insure me) ....

I believe Ireland has a similar law, along with other European countries....

Wishbone Ash · 17-01-2021 11:48am

hurleronditch wrote: »

...One question I have on the UK licences being illegal - if Bob from London flies to Ireland for a week playing golf (forget about covid for a second), does this mean he can’t walk in to hertz or Avis and rent a car?

Of course he can as he's a 'visitor' to the country.

If he is resident in Ireland, he would be required to exchange his licence.

biko · 17-01-2021 12:17pm

Motors -> Legal discussion.

Del2005 · 17-01-2021 12:24pm

arccosh wrote: »

legally, I had to hand in my Irish licence for a UK one after being there for 2 years...

would I have been caught if I didn't... no...

if I had an accident or was brought to court though and they found out I had passed the 2 year mark without trading it... technically I was driving without a licence and as a result no insurance I was informed (I drove a lot for work so was informed by HR to change my licence or I had no job as they couldn't insure me) ....

I believe Ireland has a similar law, along with other European countries....

You most have a lifetime licence.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/vehicles/driving-licence/driving-licence-exchange-recognition/index_en.htm#:~:text=guidance%20on%20Brexit-,Driving%20licence%20exchange%20in%20the%20EU,of%20residence%20if%20you%20wish.

Is it now legal to hold both UK and Irish driver's licences?

Comments