Classic car import: what does Brexit mean?

Isambard · 20-12-2020 6:57pm

w124man wrote: »

Every country trades under WTO rules. WTO rules are already there. The EU has its own trading block with its own rules in addition to WTO. Once you are out of the EU, deal or no deal you are back on WTO rules.

i'm not getting this. If there's a trade deal made between the EU and the UK, then they will be trading under that, not under WTO rules. So it's WTO only if there's no deal.

unkel · 21-12-2020 12:38am

Isambard wrote: »

If there's a trade deal made between the EU and the UK, then they will be trading under that, not under WTO rules. So it's WTO only if there's no deal.

Indeed. No sign of any deal though, is there? Time is running out.

commited · 21-12-2020 11:34am

w124man wrote: »

I did read what I wrote, after all I wrote it. I wrote "You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20". The registration process will include the presentation of a tax clearance cert from 01/01/21. You don't need one now.

It is interesting as Revenue's own informational video contradicts you re vehicles already in the state. Back to my original question - how does one acquire a tax clearance cert? It should be fully possible to get one now to use as proof post 1 Jan.

macplaxton · 21-12-2020 7:38pm

commited wrote: »

- how does one acquire a tax clearance cert? It should be fully possible to get one now to use as proof post 1 Jan.

You can't get one in advance.

You get one if you clear something at customs

There are no customs to clear until potentially 1st Jan.

If it's already in, the Revenue state invoice showing date or something else, something something, whatever satisfactory to them, but absolutely nothing about advance tax clearance certs, because to issue something like that, they'd need to see it, and they (Revenue) aren't seeing anything until they start doing customs.

macplaxton · 21-12-2020 7:43pm

w124man wrote: »

Once you are out of the EU, deal or no deal you are back on WTO rules.

Not the case. The UK have been out of the EU since 31st January 2020.

They did a deal to change nothing for 11 months (transition agreement). They have been trading on EU rules during that period.

w124man · 21-12-2020 9:02pm

macplaxton wrote: »

Not the case. The UK have been out of the EU since 31st January 2020.

They did a deal to change nothing for 11 months (transition agreement). They have been trading on EU rules during that period.

The UK is in transition until 31/12/20 then its WTO rules.

Isambard · 21-12-2020 10:00pm

w124man wrote: »

The UK is in transition until 31/12/20 then its WTO rules.

Only if there's no deal, which looks increasingly likely, but if there's a last minute deal, then WTO rules don't apply...the deal does.

Car99 · 21-12-2020 10:20pm

Deal or no deal there will be VAT to pay . The only tariff that would be a voided with a deal is 10%. So in the grand scheme of things deal or no deal importing a car from the UK in 2021 will be 20 to 23% more expensive best case scenario.

macplaxton · 22-12-2020 12:16am

w124man wrote: »

The UK is in transition until 31/12/20 then its WTO rules.

Correct and that transition period was because of a deal at the time.

macplaxton · 22-12-2020 12:21am

Car99 wrote: »

Deal or no deal there will be VAT to pay.

Depends on the details.

If it was the case as you say, VAT would have been charged since February, but it hasn't.

What we can be certain about is the uncertainty at the minute.

mikehn · 22-12-2020 12:54pm

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

Car99 · 22-12-2020 1:06pm

mikehn wrote: »

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

What age is the car now and do you have the old irish reg?

Isambard · 22-12-2020 1:34pm

mikehn wrote: »

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

Is it on NI plates rather than GB ones? There is every likelihood VAT won't apply to imports from NI. Depends if there's a deal I guess

noelf · 22-12-2020 1:57pm

If you have the Irish reg run it through the NCT website and see does it show up also does the NI seller have the Irish tax book ..

mikehn · 22-12-2020 2:06pm

Ya, the seller has all the old Irish documentation,interesting idea checking if the old Irish reg is alive.Car is regd in the North. Car is currently 36 years old. Its just that its at the total upper limit of my budget and I just cant afford to get hit by an additional bill as I don't believe that I will be able to get a vrt appointment before the end of the year

macplaxton · 22-12-2020 7:44pm

mikehn wrote: »

Ya, the seller has all the old Irish documentation,

Regardless, the previous registration (the Irish one) would be on the V5C(NI).

The number/details should still be in the system even if exported and possibly marked dormant.

Going by the date on the V5C(NI) in any event the Revenue are considering NI vehicles to be intra-community transfers and not subject to VAT.

Do a search or contact Revenue, I think if it's already VRT paid (and not refunded) in the past, it doesn't need paying again.

w124man · 22-12-2020 9:59pm

mikehn wrote: »

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

A friend of mine did this with a car previously registered here that went to the UK. After 4 years he brought it back having checked that the Irish reg was still on the system. He paid no VRT or anything.

Ryano87 · 22-12-2020 10:27pm

Isambard wrote: »

hmmm, might be a good idea to park it in front of your local landmark with todays paper and take a photo, might help

That wouldn't prove anything, you could easily hold on to today's paper and take a picture beside a car imported in 6 months time from now

hi5 · 24-12-2020 1:59pm

You could use a smart phone set on the calendar app.
You could also register post pictures to yourself and don't open it when it arrives ( you would want to be quick though, only a few days left);)

Car99 · 24-12-2020 3:18pm

hi5 wrote: »

You could use a smart phone set on the calendar app.
You could also register post pictures to yourself and don't open it when it arrives ( you would want to be quick though, only a few days left);)

Get yourself caught by a speed that'll be a nice picture for proof.

outfox · 24-12-2020 4:26pm

Well, a deal has been reached at long last. Is the used car import situation any clearer?

Car99 · 24-12-2020 5:47pm

outfox wrote: »

Well, a deal has been reached at long last. Is the used car import situation any clearer?

Tarriff free by the sounds of it so that's 10% less than worse case scenario. VAT details will be interesting , revenue says no vat on NI imports but there will be VAT on UK imports so I presume the deal hasnt changed that. If that is the case will a middle man be a work around to allow import in to the north to from the uk vat free and then on to ROI vat free . Time will tell.

Isambard · 24-12-2020 6:00pm

Car99 wrote: »

Tarriff free by the sounds of it so that's 10% less than worse case scenario. VAT details will be interesting , revenue says no vat on NI imports but there will be VAT on UK imports so I presume the deal hasnt changed that. If that is the case will a middle man be a work around to allow import in to the north to from the uk vat free and then on to ROI vat free . Time will tell.

it's already been said that an asset moved from GB to NI that isn't exportable to the RoI won't attract VAT. A car doesn't fit that,

BorneTobyWilde · 24-12-2020 6:05pm

But used vehicles in the UK would have had vat paid on them already Shirley .

Isambard · 24-12-2020 8:15pm

not entirely up to speed so don't quote me, but it's to do with the value added. Currently dealers only pay pay VAT on the amount of uplifted value but after a deal wouldn't have the benefit of this concession and would have to pay the full amount up front. I suppose it's to make sure cars don't get shifted over the border without being fully milked.

and don't call me Shirley.

galwaytt · 24-12-2020 9:18pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

But used vehicles in the UK would have had vat paid on them already Shirley .

Wont matter : as an external to EU country it won't count.

w124man · 26-12-2020 8:23pm

outfox wrote: »

Well, a deal has been reached at long last. Is the used car import situation any clearer?

Well depending on where your info comes from, there is a document the size of War and Peace that needs to be read, dissected and translated into plain English. Then on 30/12 the UK Government has to vote on and accept it. While that is going on, EU ratification has to be completed and then, depending on which way it all goes, we have a deal!

Isambard · 26-12-2020 8:30pm

w124man wrote: »

Well depending on where your info comes from, there is a document the size of War and Peace that needs to be read, dissected and translated into plain English. Then on 30/12 the UK Government has to vote on and accept it. While that is going on, EU ratification has to be completed and then, depending on which way it all goes, we have a deal!

plenty of room for a spanner in the works!

macplaxton · 26-12-2020 9:43pm

w124man wrote: »

there is a document the size of War and Peace that needs to be read, dissected and translated into plain English.

Bedtime reading

:

Trade and Cooperation Agreement (including Annexes and Protocols) PDF, 9.21MB, 1246 pages

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/agreements-reached-between-the-united-kingdom-of-great-britain-and-northern-ireland-and-the-european-union

BorneTobyWilde · 26-12-2020 11:18pm

You see a car for sale in Australia from time to time that was imported from the EU, and when seller is selling in Australia I've seen them state '' no vat to be paid on this car if getting exported back to EU, as it was a European car when sold new''
But isn't that the case for all cars in UK, they were purchased in EU and had vat paid on them.

KevRossi · 27-12-2020 1:17am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

But used vehicles in the UK would have had vat paid on them already Shirley .

I've been thinking about this before. You can'r be taxed twice on the same item. So if a car is built in Japan and imported to the EU (in this case UK) in, for example 2012. Then all EU taxes due would have been paid in 2012. So surely they can'r be due again? It won't apply to cars registered in the UK after 01/01/21 (or 31/01/20 if you will), but for now it must surely apply.

It may take a court case to get Revenue to accept this.

Either way, surely there's a rebate payable on some cars exported from the UK after Jan 1st. I've often received a VAT rebate on trucks and some cars when I exported them from Germany to Africa. Usually took a few months, but was always done correctly.

w124man · 27-12-2020 4:16pm

A friend of mine has brought a few Mercs in from Japan and had to pay VAT and duty on them. Revenue doesn't make up these rules in this case but a car coming in from an ex EU member is a complete unknown (for now)!!

Isambard · 27-12-2020 4:29pm

KevRossi wrote: »

I've been thinking about this before. You can'r be taxed twice on the same item. So if a car is built in Japan and imported to the EU (in this case UK) in, for example 2012. Then all EU taxes due would have been paid in 2012. So surely they can'r be due again? It won't apply to cars registered in the UK after 01/01/21 (or 31/01/20 if you will), but for now it must surely apply.

It may take a court case to get Revenue to accept this.

Either way, surely there's a rebate payable on some cars exported from the UK after Jan 1st. I've often received a VAT rebate on trucks and some cars when I exported them from Germany to Africa. Usually took a few months, but was always done correctly.

why would there be? It's a Tax to raise funds, it would make no sense to repay it. It's not like VRT

BorneTobyWilde · 27-12-2020 6:02pm

w124man wrote: »

A friend of mine has brought a few Mercs in from Japan and had to pay VAT and duty on them. Revenue doesn't make up these rules in this case but a car coming in from an ex EU member is a complete unknown (for now)!!

Maybe those mercedes, were sold new in Japan, as they are RHD, and tend to have air con ect.

I'm talking of used cars in Europe, imported to say Australia, Japan, then returned to Europe, and put back on register in europe.

w124man · 28-12-2020 6:42pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I've seen them state '' no vat to be paid on this car if getting exported back to EU, as it was a European car when sold new''

If the car was sold new in the EU and later exported to OZ then this may be true. If the car was made in the EU and sold new in Oz then the seller is talking bollox

Classic car import: what does Brexit mean?

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