Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

kingofthekong · 12-12-2019 6:16pm

theVersatile wrote: »

At one stage according to RugbyPass Index - Dave Kilcoyne was the best loosehead prop in the world. There's a place for stats in rugby but blindly believing Player A is better than Player B because this algorithm has given Player A 88/100 and Player B 97/100 is silly. Thankfully I think most people here recognise that.

I also think the POM doesn't carry arguement is due to the systems Munster and Ireland player last season. Both position POM out wide to stretch the pitch but then played mostly 10 man rugby - with some odd wide opportunities here and there (see O'Mahoney Vs Piatau a couple years ago - Angus Lloyds try in Thomond) and set piece strike plays in an otherwise unimaginative gameplan.

Fast forward post RWC - Larkham introduces some form of wide attacking gameplan in Limerick and POM starts to carry more in the wider channels - as seen in his last two European games. Funny how that works - playing wider gives wider positioned players more ball. And before anyone fires a counterargument saying that he should go looking for work - he shouldn't (especially if Joe was as controlling as this thread would have you believe). He's playing a system. If the ball doesn't come his way - is that really his fault.

Note this is not in any way a declaration that POM should start - or be captain - or anything. Overall, nothing can be said until we see (a) the 6N squad (b) how Farrell wants Ireland to play and (c) the form of potential competitors in his position (the likes of your Ruddocks, who's playing very well; Tadhg Beirne, Doris/Deegan (if CJ moves to 6), Leavy upon his return etc)

O'mahony does carry lol hes just absolutely ****e at it,

My two cents is weve tried o'mahony for the last year its had a couple high moments but recently it hasnt been good enough,

Farrells go to pick on form going forward we are at the start of the next 4 year cycle - time to bring in guys like Doris, Deegan, Connors, Penny into Irish camps, sorry about leaving other provinces out but as far as backrow prospects go they are all with leinster at the moment

aloooof · 12-12-2019 6:35pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

O'mahony does carry lol hes just absolutely ****e at it,

My two cents is weve tried o'mahony for the last year its had a couple high moments but recently it hasnt been good enough,

Farrells go to pick on form going forward we are at the start of the next 4 year cycle - time to bring in guys like Doris, Deegan, Connors, Penny into Irish camps, sorry about leaving other provinces out but as far as backrow prospects go they are all with leinster at the moment

If you're picking on form, JOD deserves to be in there too tbh.

12-12-2019 6:49pm

Inside the video analysis suite for the All Blacks

swiwi_ · 12-12-2019 9:48pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Van Graan pushin POM for captaincy. Oh dear.

Sure it’ll be graan.

stephen_n · 12-12-2019 10:03pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Sure it’ll be graan.

That deserves a ban

Stout Warrior · 13-12-2019 1:38am

I think we’ll see Farrell use the sledgehammer rather than the scalpel come February. We’ve seen at the World Cup that big physical teams are needed in the modern game and selections will reflect this.

I think we’ll see a clearing out of the old and in with the new. Kelleher Doris and Cooney will be brought into the squad with at least 2 of them in the game day squads. I think we’ll see Henderson and Ryan starting with either of them Captaining the team for the tournament. Might be too soon for Ryan but I think we might see a change around in the centres.

Robbie gives everything on the pitch but might be short a yard or two of pace come the very top level. He can work on that if he’s given a bit of me time. Gary has been iffy in defence in one game and hasn’t been firing on all cylinders as he was in World Cup.

Byrne will really have a platform to make his case once and for all come February but if he doesn’t lay down a marker we could see Carty seizing that chance. We’ve 2 limited out halves in my view and are waiting for someone to step in and give us some injection of pace into running the backline.

Should be fascinating and a long awaited turnaround and turnover of personnel for the first time in a good few years.

Dubinusa · 13-12-2019 6:08am

I reckon it will be a small difference in the 1st match.
Maybe Conway starting on the wing and Larmour or Haley at fb.
By the Italy match we may see Kelleher at least on the bench and possibly Doris.
The inclusion of Moore and maybe EOS is possibe too.
Come the summer tour, I would expect to see JGP, Blade, Deegan feature also.
These changes alone are a good start imo.

lawrencesummers · 13-12-2019 7:16am

Peoples are getting far to hung up on POM's inclusion or not while forgetting that the BR is hugely attritional and over the course of the 6N he and at least 5 others will be needed.

Does he have strengths in his game - Yes.
Does he have weaknesses - Yes.
Is a BR about balance - Yes.

Shefwedfan · 13-12-2019 9:41am

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Peoples are getting far to hung up on POM's inclusion or not while forgetting that the BR is hugely attritional and over the course of the 6N he and at least 5 others will be needed.

Does he have strengths in his game - Yes.
Does he have weaknesses - Yes.
Is a BR about balance - Yes.

Everyone is saying balance, I said it in the warm up and that out back row was not balanced with POM, VDF, Stander....

As far as I can see the discussion has not changed, if they are to play POM going forward then I would see him at 7 with Stander at 6 and someone at 8....

But at the moment POM is out of form, After WC the cry was to drop out of form players, as I predicted at the time as we get towards the tournament that is forgotten.

It’s now a case of just putting a case forward for player from a specific province.

This is the problem I see with the Irish team, if Farrell did take a big call and drop players like POM, Sexton etc it would be war and people would be waiting for him to fail....not really what a new manager wants

aloooof · 13-12-2019 9:57am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It’s now a case of just putting a case forward for player from a specific province.

Just because someone disagrees with you does not automatically mean it's provincial bias.

Former Former · 13-12-2019 10:29am

aloooof wrote: »

Just because someone disagrees with you does not automatically mean it's provincial bias.

That sounds like Munster talk. BOOOOOOOOO

Shefwedfan · 13-12-2019 10:36am

aloooof wrote: »

Just because someone disagrees with you does not automatically mean it's provincial bias.

If that is how you read it...I did try to say away from that accusation by including Sexton etc.

My overall point is that if Farrell goes bold and makes sweeping changes then the irish fans will go nuts.

The outrage after the WC, like always, has subsided and now it's back to win at all cost.

Not sure who posted here, but saying to bring Toner back into squad. Yes Toner is playing well at the moment and I love the guy but is he really the answer?

salmocab · 13-12-2019 10:39am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If that is how you read it...I did try to say away from that accusation by including Sexton etc.

My overall point is that if Farrell goes bold and makes sweeping changes then the irish fans will go nuts.

The outrage after the WC, like always, has subsided and now it's back to win at all cost.

Not sure who posted here, but saying to bring Toner back into squad. Yes Toner is playing well at the moment and I love the guy but is he really the answer?

The answer to what though? Is it to changing how we play? No! Is it is he in the top 4 locks in the country then Yes!

Former Former · 13-12-2019 10:44am

My take on POM is that while he's not top-level international material, he's still the best 6 we have. Well, Stander is the best 6 we have, but he's also the best 8 we have.

If Ferris (still only 34) had been able to hold his body together, would POM have 60+ caps? No. If Heaslip hadn't got injured and Stander could have stayed at 6, would POM still be in the team? No.

But Ferris and Heaslip did have to retire, and POM is the best option for us. The alternatives in Ruddock, Murphy, Conan, like, they're good players but I'm not seeing anything that tells me it's a great injustice that they're not being picked. Maybe Farrell will have a different take on it but I would fully expect POM to be wearing the 6 jersey come February.

kingofthekong · 13-12-2019 11:34am

Stout Warrior wrote: »

I think we’ll see Farrell use the sledgehammer rather than the scalpel come February. We’ve seen at the World Cup that big physical teams are needed in the modern game and selections will reflect this.

I think we’ll see a clearing out of the old and in with the new. Kelleher Doris and Cooney will be brought into the squad with at least 2 of them in the game day squads. I think we’ll see Henderson and Ryan starting with either of them Captaining the team for the tournament. Might be too soon for Ryan but I think we might see a change around in the centres.

Robbie gives everything on the pitch but might be short a yard or two of pace come the very top level. He can work on that if he’s given a bit of me time. Gary has been iffy in defence in one game and hasn’t been firing on all cylinders as he was in World Cup.

Byrne will really have a platform to make his case once and for all come February but if he doesn’t lay down a marker we could see Carty seizing that chance. We’ve 2 limited out halves in my view and are waiting for someone to step in and give us some injection of pace into running the backline.

Should be fascinating and a long awaited turnaround and turnover of personnel for the first time in a good few years.

Gary doesnt have iffy defense hes defending the hardest channel in the game of rugby to defend and does it very well,

Henshaw made a few errors in defence last week though

Eod100 · 13-12-2019 1:18pm

Someone was asking about McNulty earlier. Looks like he was interviewed as part of review. https://www.offtheball.com/rugby/ireland-world-cup-enda-mcnulty-937718

Stout Warrior · 13-12-2019 2:26pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Gary doesnt have iffy defense hes defending the hardest channel in the game of rugby to defend and does it very well,

Henshaw made a few errors in defence last week though

He has a tendency to have lapses in concentration. You have to really alert to be defending that 13 channel. Sometimes he shoots out of the line too early also.

Paul Smeenus · 13-12-2019 3:50pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/matt-williams-an-open-letter-to-ross-byrne-and-conor-murray-1.4113609?mode=amp

Wtactualf

salmocab · 13-12-2019 4:14pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/matt-williams-an-open-letter-to-ross-byrne-and-conor-murray-1.4113609?mode=amp

Wtactualf

Some sort of Christmas wind up surely

Dubinusa · 13-12-2019 4:17pm

Regarding Ruddock, he clearly has been the best 6 for a considerable time now. He offers something different to POM. A superior ball carrying threat, speed and power.
So, does Farrell want that type of more physical player?
Concerning RB, he just needs to keep on playing his game. He's improved in all aspects of his game. He6not a natural flowing attacking option, but he doesn't need to be. I hope he can push on and contend for the squad. The better he is, the better the other lads will have to be.
Murray just needs to show strong passing and speed to the rucks. He's behind the others now and has been for a year. If he can't up these facets of his play, it's time to move on!

Interested Observer · 13-12-2019 5:03pm

Stout Warrior wrote: »

He has a tendency to have lapses in concentration. You have to really alert to be defending that 13 channel. Sometimes he shoots out of the line too early also.

I haven't noticed these I must say, in fact I would have said one of his best attributes is making the right call in defence.

kingofthekong · 13-12-2019 5:29pm

Stout Warrior wrote: »

He has a tendency to have lapses in concentration. You have to really alert to be defending that 13 channel. Sometimes he shoots out of the line too early also.

If youve defended at 13 in even a semi decent standard of rugby youll know that there are many times your going to be asked to make split second 50/50 decisions that 100 miles an hour,

If you watch any international 13 for any amount of time youl'l see them make defensive errors its nearly impossible not too

Henshaw bit in on a shot and allowed proctor to ghost through and make a break of nearly 40 metres , ringrose barely put a foot wrong on saturday in a tougher channel to defend

Shefwedfan · 13-12-2019 5:45pm

Stout Warrior wrote: »

He has a tendency to have lapses in concentration. You have to really alert to be defending that 13 channel. Sometimes he shoots out of the line too early also.

It been pointed out a few times Ringrose does shoot out of the line but this is to guide a player....normally towards a burly forward who can nail him....

That's why you will see most games he has a missed tackle or two, this is actually a tactic.

Not me pointing that out but BOD etc and everyone has agreed he uses that......

shootermacg · 13-12-2019 7:36pm

Dan Leavy is the best six in Ireland. Will he ever hurry up and heal!

13-12-2019 8:12pm

Such a sad state of affairs that Ireland produced such immense talents as Sean O'Brien and Stephen Ferris and yet neither were ever really fit and almost never at the same time.

And can't write Stephen Ferris without reminding people of his one final Kim Kardashian:

Ulster supporters really played their part too!

shootermacg · 13-12-2019 8:16pm

mfceiling · 13-12-2019 8:23pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Such a sad state of affairs that Ireland produced such immense talents as Sean O'Brien and Stephen Ferris and yet neither were ever really fit and almost never at the same time.

And can't write Stephen Ferris without reminding people of his one final Kim Kardashian:

Ulster supporters really played their part too!

Still puts a shiver up my spine.

Shefwedfan · 13-12-2019 8:36pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Such a sad state of affairs that Ireland produced such immense talents as Sean O'Brien and Stephen Ferris and yet neither were ever really fit and almost never at the same time.

And can't write Stephen Ferris without reminding people of his one final Kim Kardashian:

Ulster supporters really played their part too!

SOB only had issues after 2012 or 2013. Before that he was playing more than not

Was watching the 2011 HC final earlier on BT and Hartley saying about vintage SOB...

13-12-2019 9:06pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Still puts a shiver up my spine.

Think someone else's spine got a shudder there too...!

Zzippy · 13-12-2019 10:58pm

John Cooney is in unbelievable from this season. Has to be in the squad and with a very good chance of the starting jersey

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Comments