Teenager smoking - what to do - has own money from job

Hannaho · 26-09-2019 1:00pm #1

Hi! My son, 16, started smoking - I think about Easter time. Probably because, my nephew was also smoking. Caught some stuff in the house, but now it's outside, well, at the back. Found another lighter today on chair near the back door. I have asked him several times to stop. Stated it's a risk to his health, that it's not 'cool' anymore, that most teenagers don't smoke now, and that even those that Vape are starting to give it up. He has a job at weekends with a catering firm, so has his own money, as he frequently reminds me. I really detest smoking, and have instilled that in them from a young age, but while my daughter is anti-smoking, my son is smoking after school, and now, before school, if I and his sister have left the house. Any advice really welcome.

Lackey · 26-09-2019 7:43pm

Do you buy him lunch for school , travel expenses,clothes phone credit?
Maybe try telling him if he has money for fags he has money to cover all of the above?
Do you know where he buys them?

Seesee · 30-09-2019 10:55am

Tell him no non-smoker will want to go near him, kiss him etc. Major turn-off!

endacl · 30-09-2019 10:56am

Charge him rent.

WB Yokes · 30-09-2019 10:57am

Seesee wrote: »

Tell him no non-smoker will want to go near him, kiss him etc. Major turn-off!

No point lying to him.

Hannaho · 01-10-2019 8:24am

HI! Thanks for replies. I told him that if I found one more cigarette butt or lighter in the house, he could pay for all his own lunches at school and bus fares to school, and that he would not have much left of his money to buy ex boxes, clothes etc, if I did this. No butts or lighters in last few days, but too early to tell if message got through, and can't say whether he is still smoking outside. I had a word with two of his friends, who smoke sometimes, and I said that they weren't welcome in the house, if they smoked, or if I found out that they were sharing cigarettes with my son.

lainey_d_123 · 01-10-2019 8:38am

Lackey wrote: »

Do you buy him lunch for school , travel expenses,clothes phone credit?
Maybe try telling him if he has money for fags he has money to cover all of the above?
Do you know where he buys them?

He's 16. He's a child. His parent has a legal obligation to pay for things like school lunches, bus fares and clothes. His money from his part time job is for 'extras' and unfortunately he's chosen to spend it on smoking. It's very frustrating and he's being very silly but IMO making him pay for essential expenses is not the answer.

Hannaho · 01-10-2019 9:30am

Yes, Lainey - they are essentials, but cigarettes are damaging to health, and are absolutely not essential. If I give him money for essentials, and he is using it for cigarettes, even alcohol, it is damaging to his health, and there is no way I am going to fund this, and it would not be responsible for me to do so. He can always bring his lunch from home, but prefers school lunches - there's a lot to be said for a hot lunch in the middle of the day. If he misuses the money I give him for lunch and bus fares, then he will have to use his own money. He has to learn responsibility and consequences for actions. I don't know if what I have said will work, but it's the only thing I really can think of. Time will tell!

01-10-2019 9:37am

The more you tell him not to, the cooler it becomes.
And money ain’t an issue, they’ll find a way to get them.

drunkmonkey · 01-10-2019 9:44am

Sprinkle some champix in his cornflakes. Don't think the not cool line will work there seriously addictive. I'd look at getting him a prescription from the doctors.
You could try taking him away for a weekend where he's not allowed smoke but have some nicorette spray ready when he gets the shakes he might see how addictive they are them and be willing to get help. What ever you do don't get him a vape as an alternative or he'll be twice as addicted, I've friends that can't get off it, one went as far as taking back up smoking so he could then give up the smokes using the normal methods that's after a few years of vaping.

wanderer 22 · 01-10-2019 9:48am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

have some nicorette spray ready when he gets the shakes he might see how addictive they are them.

Ah here...

Abel Ruiz · 01-10-2019 9:48am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The more you tell him not to, the cooler it becomes.
And money ain’t an issue, they’ll find a way to get them.

Yeah, but smoking is addictive, the parents can't say they love smoking too and the whole family lights up after dinner everyday......
Now is the time to lay down the law.
If he still smokes, punish him.
No tv, phone, computer, wifi, grounded etc.

Claw Hammer · 01-10-2019 3:41pm

Hannaho wrote: »

Hi! My son, 16, started smoking - I think about Easter time. Probably because, my nephew was also smoking. Caught some stuff in the house, but now it's outside, well, at the back. Found another lighter today on chair near the back door. I have asked him several times to stop. Stated it's a risk to his health, that it's not 'cool' anymore, that most teenagers don't smoke now, and that even those that Vape are starting to give it up. He has a job at weekends with a catering firm, so has his own money, as he frequently reminds me. I really detest smoking, and have instilled that in them from a young age, but while my daughter is anti-smoking, my son is smoking after school, and now, before school, if I and his sister have left the house. Any advice really welcome.

You should punish him for smoking.Furthermore, the money he earns is your money. You are liable to tax on it. You're entitled to go to the employer and have the money paid to you as is a minor, being under the age of 18. You should take no more nonsense.

Dravokivich · 03-10-2019 10:47am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You should punish him for smoking.Furthermore, the money he earns is your money. You are liable to tax on it. You're entitled to go to the employer and have the money paid to you as is a minor, being under the age of 18. You should take no more nonsense.

What's all this now? When I worked as a teenager it was my own PPSN, that was requested and provided. Not either of my folks.

SusieBlue · 03-10-2019 11:11am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You should punish him for smoking. Furthermore, the money he earns is your money. You are liable to tax on it. You're entitled to go to the employer and have the money paid to you as is a minor, being under the age of 18. You should take no more nonsense.

No he isn't. The only obligation on the employer when hiring someone under 18 is to seek written permission from the parents, which they clearly have already done.
They may be u18 but they can legally work so being a minor is irrelevant. Any money earned is his own and his parents have no legal claim on it.

I've read the rights of young workers on the citizens advice website and it mentions nothing about being parents liable for tax or parents being entitled to money earned by their children.

The son has the contract with the employer, not OP. They would have no legal right to make any demands whatsoever.

Grab All Association · 03-10-2019 11:18am

Most likely picked up the habit at the work. Catering is I imagine a stressful enough job at times. Probably chatting with other workers on the smoke breaks and was handed a few. I’d say he started to fit in at work as opposed to peer pressure from friends.

Claw Hammer · 03-10-2019 1:01pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

What's all this now? When I worked as a teenager it was my own PPSN, that was requested and provided. Not either of my folks.

It was your PPSN but your folks income.

Claw Hammer · 03-10-2019 1:03pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

No he isn't. The only obligation on the employer when hiring someone under 18 is to seek written permission from the parents, which they clearly have already done.
They may be u18 but they can legally work so being a minor is irrelevant. Any money earned is his own and his parents have no legal claim on it.

I've read the rights of young workers on the citizens advice website and it mentions nothing about being parents liable for tax or parents being entitled to money earned by their children.

The son has the contract with the employer, not OP. They would have no legal right to make any demands whatsoever.

A minor cannot make a contract. You are quoting the rights of the minor as far as employment is concerned. An employer can't employ a minor without the parents or guardians permission precisely so the parents can allow the employment or not and can find out how much is being paid.

SusieBlue · 03-10-2019 1:05pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A minor cannot make a contract. You are quoting the rights of the minor as far as employment is concerned. An employer can't employ a minor without the parents or guardians permission precisely so the parents can allow the employment or not and can find out how much is being paid.

This is exactly what I just said

But it still doesn't mean the parents have any legal entitlement to any money earned by their children, minor or not.

Witcher · 03-10-2019 1:05pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You should punish him for smoking.Furthermore, the money he earns is your money. You are liable to tax on it. You're entitled to go to the employer and have the money paid to you as is a minor, being under the age of 18. You should take no more nonsense.

Where do people get this sh1t from?:pac:

granturismo · 03-10-2019 1:11pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

..the money he earns is your money. You are liable to tax on it. You're entitled to go to the employer and have the money paid to you as is a minor, being under the age of 18. You should take no more nonsense.

Can someone explain to me how a parent is liable for tax a 16 year old has deducted from their salary.

The parent can ask the employer to divert the salary to the parent and I'd guess the employer is fully within their rights to say no.

Whet legislation, tax circular or whatever states that a parent is 'entitled' to have their childs salary paid to the parent?

Tiddlypeeps · 03-10-2019 2:28pm

Unfortunately at his age there isn't a huge amount you can do. You can try making his life more difficult and hope he comes to the conclusion that it's just not worth it but most likely he'll just figure out how to hide it better.

Scoundrel · 03-10-2019 2:40pm

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Unfortunately at his age there isn't a huge amount you can do. You can try making his life more difficult and hope he comes to the conclusion that it's just not worth it but most likely he'll just figure out how to hide it better.

Yeah this 100% is the the case some of the replies on here are insane more akin to prison policy than parenting. The vast majority of 16 year old will drink and smoke it's just a fact and applying zero tolerance will just make them hide it better you're dealing with a 16 year old here not a 12 year old sit them down talk to them about it and treat them with a bit of respect and see how you go.

Conor84 · 03-10-2019 9:00pm

Like the last poster said he is 16 and alot of us smoked/try smoking at that age. I am sure that no parent wants their child to smoke but a fair number will.

You are disappointed but he probably is doing OK overall - there are alot of bigger problems you could have - drugs, being in trouble with the Gardai, not going to school, mental health stuff. As it is he is going to school, has his own job so probably a good worker and you haven't mentioned any other problems.

Reading it he sounds pretty like me at 16. Am 35 now but yeah when I was 16 I had a part time job, started smoking and then started smoking at school. It came to a head at home when I got caught smoking at school and got a letter home.

I am sure I had the same type of conversation at home as you ddi with him about it being bad for my health (I already knew that), smelly and expensive and all that but I was at the point where I have to say I enjoyed it and it was almost like a feeling of now being grown up - working, new frinds, smoking eventhough I was still at school and living at home.

You also say that his cousin and his friends smoke as well so he in that group where people are smoking so that would make it harder for him to give up or want to five up.

My parents tried to get me to stop but I didn't. But a few things they did sort of worked in getting me to stop for a while but I started again a few months later - I don't know if any of these would have any effect on him but might be worth thinking about.

My Mam took away my pocket money. She never said it was down to me smoking but said now that I was working it didn't make sense to be giving me pocket money/allowance. Now she always paid for my school stuff and lunches and that - don't think it would be right to start messing with that.

She told me I would need to wash and iron my own clothes as she didn't like the smell from them and didn't want them with the other clothes (I was the only smoker in the house).

The biggest thing after a few months was at Christmas. this might sound strange but I remember opening my present and seeing a box of 200 cigarettes and an ashtray. They had been away and had bought duty free and that was my main Christmas present. I hated that as I was expecting a voucher like I had got the year before. I just hated taht but she said something like as seen I was smoking now it would save me money. I just said thanks but my brothers and sister got normal presents - they were all younger - and now I was just being seen as a smoker. That really got to e and I have up for a while after that.

This sounds real stupid but I think most teenagers don't like being seen/watched smoking by their parents. I didn't and still don't. I don't know if he is the same but if he was if you went into the back garden if he goes out to smoke it maybe irritate him a bit and he might be less inclined to smoke at home. it doesn't solve your problem but he might end up smoking less

coleen · 03-10-2019 9:10pm

Mother of a now 36 year old and when he was 16 he smoked with his friends.
I checked him every time he came in home said you smell horrible you have to wash your own clothes separate from us. I gave no pocket money saying if you can afford to smoke you can buy your own luxury things.
He gave up quickly due to my hassle and often said later thank goodness you annoyed so much that I never stuck with it as he could see the same friends now trying to give them up

zapper55 · 03-10-2019 9:14pm

Tell him.about the impotence https://www.forhims.com/blog/smoking-and-erectile-dysfunction

and increased wrinkles (I know that's ages away but in the era on Instagram it might have an affect)

Conor84 · 03-10-2019 9:15pm

coleen wrote: »

Mother of a now 36 year old and when he was 16 he smoked with his friends.
I checked him every time he came in home said you smell horrible you have to wash your own clothes separate from us. I gave no pocket money saying if you can afford to smoke you can buy your own luxury things.
He gave up quickly due to my hassle and often said later thank goodness you annoyed so much that I never stuck with it as he could see the same friends now trying to give them up

Hi Mam :rolleyes:

xabi · 03-10-2019 9:22pm

I started smoking at that age, and believe me, all those suggestions you’re getting are rubbish, none of them would have worked on me. I gave up in my 20’s, only because I wanted to, no one could have made me stop before I made the decision to stop. It’s a tough one OP, but you need to encourage him to want to stop, pressuring him will not work. I used the Allen Carr book, made loads of sense to me about how the addiction works. Does he read?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 03-10-2019 9:36pm

If he persists you could revoke your permission allowing him to work and cut off his pocket money until you are satisfied he has stopped permanently.

Don’t give him lunch money but send a packed lunch to school with him.

If I found my daughters smoking, I would cut off every penny until they stopped so no more nights out or going into town at weekends to meet friends, no more money for clothes (I’d buy what they need) They’d soon get the message.

Claw Hammer · 04-10-2019 6:13pm

granturismo wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how a parent is liable for tax a 16 year old has deducted from their salary.

The parent can ask the employer to divert the salary to the parent and I'd guess the employer is fully within their rights to say no.

Whet legislation, tax circular or whatever states that a parent is 'entitled' to have their childs salary paid to the parent?

Taxes consolidation Act 1997
1047.—(1) Where a person chargeable to income tax is an infant or dies—

(a) the parent or guardian of the infant shall be liable for the tax in default of payment by the infant, and

(b) the executor or administrator of the deceased person shall be liable for the tax charged on such deceased person,

and on neglect or refusal of payment any such person so liable may be proceeded against in the like manner as any other defaulter.

(2) A parent or guardian who makes such payment shall be allowed all sums so paid in his or her accounts, and an executor or administrator may deduct all such payments out of the assets and effects of the person deceased.

Claw Hammer · 04-10-2019 6:14pm

Scoundrel wrote: »

a 16 year old here not a 12 year old sit them down talk to them about it and treat them with a bit of respect and see how you go.

In my day if a teenager of any age was caught smoking they wouldn't be able to sit down.

granturismo · 04-10-2019 11:40pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Taxes consolidation Act 1997
1047.—(1) Where a person chargeable to income tax is an infant or dies—

(a) the parent or guardian of the infant shall be liable for the tax in default of payment by the infant, and
...

If that is your proof that an parent is entitled to have their child's salary paid to the parent, you are completely wrong in your assertion. Your reference above is to an 'infant' or dead person, a working child is not an infant and hopefully not deceased.

Always Tired · 05-10-2019 12:24am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You should punish him for smoking.Furthermore, the money he earns is your money. You are liable to tax on it. You're entitled to go to the employer and have the money paid to you as is a minor, being under the age of 18. You should take no more nonsense.

What are YOU smoking? Talk about nonsense.

Honestly OP, there is absolutely nothing you can do to deter anyone from smoking. All you'll do is make them get better at hiding it.

I don't know one kid who smoked when i was growing up who stopped because of any punishments from parents.

AndrewJRenko · 05-10-2019 3:13pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

In my day if a teenager of any age was caught smoking they wouldn't be able to sit down.

How much higher were the smoking rates in your day compared to now?

Scoundrel · 07-10-2019 10:58am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

In my day if a teenager of any age was caught smoking they wouldn't be able to sit down.

Yeah and polio was rampant in your day as well thankfully the world has moved on and improved.

Claw Hammer · 07-10-2019 9:26pm

Scoundrel wrote: »

Yeah and polio was rampant in your day as well thankfully the world has moved on and improved.

Are you saying smoking caused polio? when are you going to share this amazing medical discovery with the world?

Claw Hammer · 07-10-2019 9:27pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How much higher were the smoking rates in your day compared to now?

Much higher.

Always Tired · 07-10-2019 10:47pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

In my day if a teenager of any age was caught smoking they wouldn't be able to sit down.

Which obviously didn't do the slightest bit of good, your generation smoked way more than the current one, who are smoking less despite the bad example set for them over the last 60 years or so.

Tobacco companies and advertising got people hooked through putting addictive substances in cigarettes and suggestive marketing campaigns. Between that and seeing so many older people that they look up to smoking, teenagers are easily hooked. It's the fault of the adults not the children, and anyone who thinks beating them is the answer is a complete arsehole.

Claw Hammer · 08-10-2019 2:48pm

granturismo wrote: »

If that is your proof that an parent is entitled to have their child's salary paid to the parent, you are completely wrong in your assertion. Your reference above is to an 'infant' or dead person, a working child is not an infant and hopefully not deceased.

an infant means a minor or person under 18, not a "Ryanair" infant.

SusieBlue · 08-10-2019 2:55pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

an infant means a minor or person under 18, not a "Ryanair" infant.

Where does it clarify that?
And why doesn't it just say "child" if that's the case, which would cover babies/infants/toddlers/kids/tweens/teenagers? Why the need to use the word infant if they meant child, or minor?

Claw Hammer · 08-10-2019 3:03pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Where does it clarify that?
And why doesn't it just say "child" if that's the case, which would cover babies/infants/toddlers/kids/tweens/teenagers? Why the need to use the word infant if they meant child, or minor?

Infant has a legal meaning. Colloquially infant refers to a small child but legally means a person under 18. either minor or infant ca be used. why they useed one or the other is immaterial.

Age of Majority Act 1985.
.—(1) Where a person has not attained the age of twenty-one years prior to the commencement of this Act, he shall, subject to section 4 , attain full age—

(a) on such commencement if he has attained the age of eighteen years or is or has been married, or

(b) after such commencement when he attains the age of eighteen years or, in case he marries before attaining that age, upon his marriage.

(2) Subsection (1) applies for the purposes of any rule of law and, in the absence of a definition or of any indication of a contrary intention, for the construction of “age of majority”, “full age”, “infancy”, “infant”, “minor”, “minority” and of other cognate words and expressions in—

(a) any statutory provision passed or made before, on or after the commencement of this Act, and

Motormadcork · 08-10-2019 3:54pm

Get him to smoke a 20 box one after eachother, wont be long giving them up.

charlietheminxx · 08-10-2019 4:02pm

I'm another one in my thirties who smoked as a teenager. My mother tried most of the suggestions in this thread, it made no difference, I just got really good at hiding it. I smoked til I was 25, I think she still thinks I stopped at 17 (the last time I was caught).

He's a minor and he shouldn't be smoking, but like someone else said - I don't know anyone who stopped because they were punished.

Claw Hammer · 09-10-2019 2:30pm

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I'm another one in my thirties who smoked as a teenager. My mother tried most of the suggestions in this thread, it made no difference, I just got really good at hiding it. I smoked til I was 25, I think she still thinks I stopped at 17 (the last time I was caught).

He's a minor and he shouldn't be smoking, but like someone else said - I don't know anyone who stopped because they were punished.

I do, but it was a long time ago when punishment was allowed.

charlietheminxx · 09-10-2019 2:36pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I do, but it was a long time ago when punishment was allowed.

Well your repeated implication that a good clattering is the only answer is probably not very helpful. What sort of other problems did those people grow up to have? There's a reason corporal punishment isn't a recommended approach.

AndrewJRenko · 09-10-2019 3:14pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I do, but it was a long time ago when punishment was allowed.

Punishment is still allowed. Beating up children is not allowed.

Claw Hammer · 10-10-2019 12:14pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Punishment is still allowed. Beating up children is not allowed.

Punishment is punishment. Beating up is beating up.

charlietheminxx · 10-10-2019 12:39pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Punishment is punishment. Beating up is beating up.

So what sort of punishment are you advocating then?

Claw Hammer · 10-10-2019 2:29pm

charlietheminxx wrote: »

So what sort of punishment are you advocating then?

The punishment that fits the crime.

charlietheminxx · 10-10-2019 2:39pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The punishment that fits the crime.

Which is what?

Captain Flaps · 10-10-2019 2:40pm

Kids who got a hiding grow up to be adults who give hidings.

Teenager smoking - what to do - has own money from job

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