Will you be watching Ramadan Diaries this evening?

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

OP, you are such a pathetic loser. Real beta sort of guy. That’s why trivial stuff really annoys you.

Gets under your skin and festers.

I don't understand how someone asking about a tv show has triggered such a response. What am I missing here?

Odhinn wrote: »

I'm not a christian. Secondly we are supposed to be a secular republic.

The Catholic church seem to still have a nit of clout.

kowloon wrote: »

I don't understand how someone asking about a tv show has triggered such a response. What am I missing here?



The Catholic church seem to still have a nit of clout.

Mod

User can't respond so best to just move on.

Chinasea wrote: »

Oh look, another racist thread. That makes it every second thread.

Post something of value on topic please. Thanks.

kowloon wrote: »

The idea of Ramadan can't be offensive in itself to any reasonably balanced person.

Not in the land of a 1,000 welcomes apparently though..

Odhinn wrote: »

I'm not a christian. Secondly we are supposed to be a secular republic.

That's ok, you don't have to be Christian to live here.
The fifth amendment of the constitution actually removed from the Constitution the special position of the Catholic Church and the recognition of other named religious denominations.

And you don't have to worry.
Current Christianity doesn't have a penalty for leaving the religion.
Current Islam do - it's death.

Why are you guys so infatuated with such a violent religion?

Actually given the thread title and op, I'd say the content of the programme in question is very relevant.

I would agree.... My point is trying to Bring it around to content or practices from elsewhere in the world which wasn't the subject of the show seems reductive.

Baggly wrote: »

Also very much doubt ex-muslims in Ireland face death having renounced their faith, if we are comparing like with like in this 'Christian country'

https://allianceofformermuslims.com/legalise-apostasy/

Throughout the Muslim world, those who renounce Islam are faced with persecution and death. According to the 2019 Freedom of Thought Report of the International Humanist and Ethical Union, there are no less than twelve Muslim-majority countries in which apostasy is punishable by death.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2015/may/17/losing-their-religion-british-ex-muslims-non-believers-hidden-crisis-faith

In UK, next door to us
“If someone found out where I lived,” he explains, “they could burn my house down.”
Why should such an understated figure, someone who describes himself as a “nobody”, speak as if he’s in a witness protection programme? The answer is that six years ago he decided to declare that he no longer accepted the fundamental tenets of Islam. He stopped being a believing Muslim and became instead an apostate.

s1ippy wrote: »

It always really interests me to find stuff out about Ramadan from people who do it. Intermittent fasting is in many religions including Catholicism, even though most people who claim to be Catholic don't observe the fast days anymore. There is actually a lot of research done into the benefits of fasting, though the concensus is that three days is the best period of fasting for it to have benefits to one's health.

Last year around Ramadan I got a taxi home after a night out and the lad who dropped me home was Muslim. He was saying most of the taxi drivers do the night shift as they can't eat during the day, I thought it was a crafty loophole. He was also telling me about the class food they eat, gave me a recipe for Biryani I've made loads of times since.

The level of contempt in here is unfortunate but not very surprising as certain sections of Irish society are totally insulated from ever encountering people of different cultures. Fortunately the generation growing up in Ireland now represent a wide variety of races and religions. Current trends seem to show that many will be atheist or agnostic due to readily available information when they start to question the tenets of their family's tradition. There will definitely be a lot more appreciation and acceptance of people when it comes to religion in about six or seven years when the current primary school kids finish secondary school.

I’ve spent Ramadam last year in Oman, and had the honour of being invited to Iftar. Felt very privileged sitting on the ground breaking the fast with the governor and chief of police, eating goat and rice with my right hand.
Very spiritual , respectful a dignified people

Baggly wrote: »

Biko why are you trying to Bring this discussion about a programme about Ramadan in Ireland back to the death penalty for apostasy everywhere else but Ireland.

We should widen our scope and think outside of this island. What happens in UK today will happen in Ireland in 5/10 years, it's always been that way.

I will stop if you think I'm going offtopic but I would urge everyone to ask their Muslim friends about correct punishment for someone who denounces Allah, or if they could be friends with gay people.
Then ask your Jewish friends the same question.

biko wrote: »

We should widen our scope and think outside of this island. What happens in UK today will happen in Ireland in 5/10 years, it's always been that way.

I will stop if you think I'm going offtopic but I would urge everyone to ask their Muslim friends about correct punishment for someone who denounces Allah, or if they could be friends with gay people.
Then ask your Jewish friends the same question.

I did think it was a bit off topic. I am sure there are other threads dedicated to the topic you are broaching.

Its like someone starting a thread about the Angelus and someone else bringing up the Magdalene Launderies or the Church not making amends quickly enough etc etc.

I also disagee about the UK necessarily being a forebear to what happens here for most things, but thats another discussion.

Locals of England looking at Germany in late 1500s:
"They're burning witches over there. At least it won't come here."

Local of England mid 1600s
"Kill the witches!"

Modern intelligent locals 2020s:
"Lol, that kinda craic won't happen again"

---

Local of England in 1980s:
"They're killing gays in Iran. At least it won't come here."

......

Should you not be as opposed to Ramadan Diaries as to the Angulus on TV?

Have a discussion with your Muslim friends. Ask them if any version of Sharia should be implemented in Ireland.
Ask if the Irish constitution or Sharia should guide Irish Muslims.

Odhinn wrote: »

Rhetorical nonsense. You've no interest in a secular state, save where you can continue stereotyping and scaremongering the muslim minority in this state.

Of course I do, a secular state is the best way forward.
But, it seems when I want less religion in society, you want more.
And not only do you encourage it, you want a religion that allows killing gays, killing apostates, beats its women and allows for slaves.
Don't take my word for it, ask any imam about these things I mentioned above.

biko wrote: »

Two NUIG medical students died fighting for Islamic state after becoming radicalised while living in Galway
Was it a once-off, or a theme - what do you think?
Will we see less of things like this in the future, or more of things like this?

Again, this didnt happen in Ireland.....It has nothing to do with the OP.....and unless you can produce more evidence, it seems to be in a huge minority of cases in terms of muslims.

Im out - im sorry ive tried to be respectful.... but you dont actually seem open to the points im making.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Secondly,at a time when direct Catholic church involvement in Irish primary and secondary education is being wound-down

What makes you think that?
The only thing that has changed is that it has been made harder (not illegal, harder) for RC controlled schools to discriminate in enrolment on religious grounds. That's all.

jmreire wrote: »

Years ago, Irish schools were predominantly Catholic run

Guess what - they still are.

Now there is an increasing nr of secular schools, where religion is not on the curriculum at all...

A tiny number of ETB secondary schools don't teach religion at all.
All ET primaries teach religion
About half of ETB secondary schools have a catholic ethos. The rest, apart from the handful mentioned above, are supposedly "multi-denominational" but still promote one or other or both of the big two churches. NB all ETB schools are fully State owned.

It is a very optional subject at this time.

Impossible to opt out at primary level as it's integrated throughout the curriculum in denominational schools (96% of the total.)

Difficult to opt out in many secondary schools, and very few will allow another subject or even schoolwork / study to be done during that time.

smacl wrote: »

That's both a terrible non-sequitur and hasty generalisation. For comparison, rumour has it that there were many Christians involved in terrorism in the troubles here in Ireland on both sides of the conflict. That doesn't imply Irish Christians have a tendency towards terrorism, even though certain hard right figures in the UK have painted that picture in the past. Stereotypes such as these are dangerous and divisive.

While I've no time for organised religion myself, least of all Islam, having worked and holidayed in a number of Muslim majority countries over the years I'd say most of the Muslims I've met tend to be friendly and generous spirited. In terms of religious zeal I'd say they'd be similar the rural Catholics in Ireland in the 60s and 70s. As for abandoning religion, lots of Muslims in the UK have and continue to do so. The equivalent of the 'a-la-carte Catholic' over here would be the 'pork pie Muslim'. I know plenty of them.

I've lived and worked with Muslims for many year's, in country's which were 100% Islamic, or were predominantly Islamic, but shared with other religion's, and in Country's which had a small Islamic presence. To this day, most of my friends are Muslim. So, I can say that I have some experience with Islam. Generally, the further you get from the center ( for Sunni's, its Saudi ) the more relaxed it becomes. So while people may leave Islam in England, its not so easy to leave ( in fact impossible ) the nearer you get to the center's. I know full well what happened to a Muslim family that I know in a strict Islamic Country,who did leave. It was not pleasant either. Even in the UK, ex Muslims can be disowned by their families, and "shunned" by the Muslim community. Suicide is not unknown.
Also the further away from the center, the more "Western" they become, IE in matters of dress, and having a drink ( I've had many a good night drinking with some of them). In general, the majority of Muslims I have met, are more concerned with the same day to day problems that beset everyone, regardless of religion. Finding a place to live, getting a good education, job etc. are their priorities. Terrorism is not high on their agenda, except maybe to avoid it.
To make the comparison between "Irish Terrorists" and the perception that all Irish were terrorists, with Islamic terrorism is not correct. The "Irish Terrorism" or as it was better known, "The Troubles". had a beginning and an ending. It finished with the Good Friday Agreement., and so now it is historic.
Islam, on the other is a very different story. 1'400 years ago, Mohammad composed the Quran, and word for word, it cannot be changed. It's this very same Quran that isis and other's use to justify the violence and terror they unleash on the world. After any such act of extreme violence there is always massive condemnation by everyone, including Muslims. ( who in the main, suffer the most from "Islamic Terrorism" yesterday's attack in a maternity Hospital in Kabul comes to mind ) But isis can and do hold up a copy of the Quran, and can point out the relevant page which they claim justify's their action. The thousands of Muslims who rushed to join their Calipate, shows how they are perceived .So any similarity between "Irish or other Terrorism's" ends right there.
The Irish troubles, had a beginning and an end. Until Muslims find a way to interpret the Quran differently, it will remain open to abuse. And this should be openly discussed with Muslims, at every level.

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

As you pointed out,most victims of ISIS are Muslim so Muslims do already interpret the Quran differently. If all Muslims interpreted the Quran as ISIS did, we'd all be swimming in blood.

Conversations about how best to interpret the Quran are best had among Muslims,in my view.Non-Muslims, particularly Westerners are seeing as carrying all sorts of historical baggage,and are too easily dismissed as hypocritical.Also,we run the risk of exposing the fact that we all too often don't know what we're talking about.The best thing we can do is to offer quiet support to those progressive forces within Islam,and to stop doing the bidding of Saudi Arabia and it's friends.

If every Muslim took the same version of the Quran as isis /taleban, then ww3 would have been fought and ended a long time ago. I have never suggested that non-Muslims should have any say in any interpretation of the Quran, or any adaptation of it. If this is to come about at all, it will have to come from within Islam itself.
Concerning the "Historical Baggage" you mention, IE:- "The New Crusaders". The vast majority of Muslims I have interacted with are full aware of the history, and know very well the difference between the past and the present. The one's who I did meet who had this mindset, were largely in remote villages whose only experience / education came from an Imam, who may never have even traveled on a plane. And regarding the point you make about westerners not understanding Islam, thats a two way street. Personally, I have corrected quite a lot of mis-conception's regarding the west, in discussions with Muslim colleagues. Just as they have taught me how to behave in Islamic Society while in their Country.
No matter what your view's are, the bottom line is the problem of radical Islam has to be tackled, and I fully realize what a problem that will be, given the context.