[TenLeftFingers]

Floyd Westerman mentions this in his talk on the common struggle of Native Americans and the Irish. I didn't do leaving cert history and only recently learned of Irish involvement with genocide of natives in the USA. So I'm curious, when did you learn the extent of our history with the indigenous people of America?




Mod Note:
See warning on post 32 about straying from OP.

[neris]

The way its normally spun when in comes to native populations and the Irish is the Irish were always friendly towards the natives and it was British or Americans who were going around killing natives and beating slaves from Africa.

[An Ri rua]

You'll find the same with any foreign forces the Irish joined.
Even through our domestic (domesticated by the Brits) British colonial involvement, we no doubt oversaw serious abuse and slaughter of Africans, Asians and Arabs on their own soil. Just research the amount of Irish in the officer class of the British Forces and it becomes very obvious.
We may never have colonised, as a sovereign state, but as one of the 'home nations' as it were, we certainly did.

[Gruffalux]

General Philip Sheridan. Parents went from Co. Cavan to Ohio. He was renowned for his total war tactics against native Americans. Starved them in winter, slaughtered men, women and children with no remorse, drove them onto the reservations. A stain on his ancestors and ancestral roots.

https://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/peo...z/sheridan.htm

[timmyntc]

Why should it be "our" history?

If an Irish person emigrates and does some heinous crimes somewhere else in the world - why should we, the people who stayed in Ireland have any kind of responsibility or even association with same? Most of these people don't even have any modern day descendents who are Irish.

[TenLeftFingers]

Originally Posted by Gruffalox

General Philip Sheridan. Parents went from Co. Cavan to Ohio. He was renowned for his total war tactics against native Americans. Starved them in winter, slaughtered men, women and children with no remorse, drove them onto the reservations. A stain on his ancestors and ancestral roots.

https://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/peo...z/sheridan.htm

I read of a Kerry man with a similar reputation (although probably not a similar rank / authority).

[whisky_galore]

Originally Posted by neris

The way its normally spun when in comes to native populations and the Irish is the Irish were always friendly towards the natives and it was British or Americans who were going around killing natives and beating slaves from Africa.

Incidents like the the Cincinatti Riots and New York Draft Riots put paid to the "We were a sound bunch of lads" narrative and the falsehood Irish were universally liked and tolerated.
Of course Irish slaughtered native Americans and competed and fought over resources and jobs with African Americans. There were ugly incidents between Irish and Chinese in railroad construction gangs.

[TenLeftFingers]

Is any of this on the history syllabus in the leaving cert? We criticize yhe British for not K NJ owing the atrocities they commited which seems ironic, even if the scale was infinitely greater.

[8mv]

I remember reading 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' some years ago and being shocked at the number of Irish names who enthusiastically took part in the genocide of the indigenous people of North America. It had not occured to me before that Irish people and other Northern Europeans had contributred to that shameful episode of history.

[riffmongous]

Originally Posted by TenLeftFingers

Is any of this on the history syllabus in the leaving cert? We criticize yhe British for not K NJ owing the atrocities they commited which seems ironic, even if the scale was infinitely greater.

The difference usually being though that the atrocities were committed in the name of the country, rather than the people. But yes, it should definitely be included in any discussion on the diaspora

[TenLeftFingers]

Originally Posted by riffmongous

The difference usually being though that the atrocities were committed in the name of the country, rather than the people. But yes, it should definitely be included in any discussion on the diaspora

But at the end of the day, by the people. But I take your point at the same time.

[Peregrinus]

Originally Posted by TenLeftFingers

Is any of this on the history syllabus in the leaving cert? We criticize yhe British for not K NJ owing the atrocities they commited which seems ironic, even if the scale was infinitely greater.

Originally Posted by riffmongous

The difference usually being though that the atrocities were committed in the name of the country, rather than the people. But yes, it should definitely be included in any discussion on the diaspora

The story of the Irish diaspora is not really addressed in the history syllabus (at second level, anyway), exept in so far as it has implications for the history of Ireland (e.g. the role of Irish-America in the Fenian movement).

[Yellow_Fern]

I don't think anyone has systematically studied this question but what bugs me about this kind of anaysis is that it supposed that the Native Americans lost their lands and way of life due to genocide. In some areas there was true ethnic cleaning but even if there wasn't, even there was no killings, the end result would be the same. The 90% die off from disease and the huge numbers of European immigrants doomed them. The real cause was not ethnic cleaning, it was dispect of Native Americans natural rights to their land.

Can you edit the poll? Some people learnt ofIrish involvment as kids or teenagers through their own reading

[TenLeftFingers]

Unfortunately, it seems that I can't even update my first post to say that "In school" can cover school-going years in general in the poll.

I agree with you on this; genocide wasn't the only thing they had to contend with.

[Peregrinus]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Fern

. . . The real cause was not ethnic cleaning, it was dispect of Native Americans natural rights to their land.

How is dispossesing people of their land, so forcing them to move off it and allow it to be settled by a different people, not ethnic cleansing? Genuine question.