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Alberto Salazar in Doping Scandal

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Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Was all this not in the panorama doc a few years ago?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Was all this not in the panorama doc a few years ago?

    These are new allegations, particularly the prescription drug part.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Can't read linked article fully, but original doc had plenty of stuff about using prescription medication under Therapeutic Use Exemption status.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    From the article (The Sunday Times will have it tomorrow):

    "USADA believes the L-carnitine infusions given by intravenous drip to six top American runners training with Salazar "almost certainly" broke anti-doping rules. L-carnitine is not a banned substance for athletes but infusions of more than 50ml in the space of six hours are prohibited."


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    pconn062 wrote: »
    From the article (The Sunday Times will have it tomorrow):

    "USADA believes the L-carnitine infusions given by intravenous drip to six top American runners training with Salazar "almost certainly" broke anti-doping rules. L-carnitine is not a banned substance for athletes but infusions of more than 50ml in the space of six hours are prohibited."

    Worrding is non-conclusive really, the times front page has a lot of "almost Certainly" and "potentially" and the health angle tells me that there is nothing of concrete evidence from the USADA report if these are the biggest quotes they could pull from what I assume is a huge document.

    The prescription drugs is not new, Kara Goucher came out that time about Cytomel as have many athletes with "overactive thyroids" in NOP and athletics, Alberto used to be called Albuterol Salazar back in the 80's and Jeffrey Brown is known to meet athletes "prescription needs" for years, Carl Lewis was a patient of his. The one major thing I can spot in that article is the dose to time on infusions and nothing will probably come of it as how do they prove it, they don't even test for L-Carnitine as its not banned. Everything so far is a rehash of 2015 and the report was published in March 2016, nothing has happened a year after


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    USADA tried to unsuccessfully depose Dr. Brown 4 months after the report was published. The judge ruled that USADA lacked evidence and were on a "fishing expedition to see if they can find some kind of a problem"

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/sports/olympics/usada-doping-endocrinologist-investigation.amp.html

    If they couldn't fry Brown, I don't think they'll get anywhere with NOP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    From Mo himself:

    C5mA8BqWMAAfkPc.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭velo.2010


    'I am a clean athlete who has never broken the rules in regards to substances, methods or dosages'.

    Well, if the allegations are true then you have Mo! If not, then you still certainly bent the rules as far as you could.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb



    Even if he is a clean athlete?

    Stupid thing to say...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Mo maybe should think about disassociating himself from Salazar. His honesty and cleanness will be automatically questioned, and to many idiots he'll be labelled a PED user by association.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Are the allegations suggesting that these drugs being prescribed and administered are banned PEDs?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭overpronator


    walshb wrote: »
    Mo maybe should think about disassociating himself from Salazar. His honesty and cleanness will be automatically questioned, and to many idiots he'll be labelled a PED user by association.

    I think its more idiotic to not ask questions if the person who transformed his career is shown to be behaving outside the rules.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I think its more idiotic to not ask questions if the person who transformed his career is shown to be behaving outside the rules.

    Hence my point. Maybe disassociate yourself from Salazar.

    Anyway, no matter what there will always be idiots labelling clean athletes as cheats.

    I read the links and articles. More horsesh1t.. if there is actual cheating then go and expose it....this incessant BS and innuendo and speculation and he said she said. Wake up, fellas. It's garbage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,009 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    walshb wrote: »
    Hence my point. Maybe disassociate yourself from Salazar.

    Anyway, no matter what there will always be idiots labelling clean athletes as cheats.

    I read the links and articles. More horsesh1t.. if there is actual cheating then go and expose it....this incessant BS and innuendo and speculation and he said she said. Wake up, fellas. It's garbage.

    So, athletes come out against him saying he's done sh1t, and then a report comes out saying he's denied investigators access to files that they'd need to fully prove if he and his athletes are cheating or not, and you think it's all garbage?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    titan18 wrote: »
    So, athletes come out against him saying he's done sh1t, and then a report comes out saying he's denied investigators access to files that they'd need to fully prove if he and his athletes are cheating or not, and you think it's all garbage?

    Until they prove sh1t, yes it is garbage. Mo is spot on. If you have something to show, show it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    Until they prove sh1t, yes it is garbage. Mo is spot on. If you have something to show, show it.

    Why so much hate for Mo?

    It's not like he is running against world class runners at the moment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,009 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    walshb wrote: »
    Until they prove sh1t, yes it is garbage. Mo is spot on. If you have something to show, show it.

    Hard to show it unless they get access to the records though, no, barring another athlete coming out with his own records and proving he was doped.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Why so much hate for Mo?

    It's not like he is running against world class runners at the moment

    What are you talking about?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    titan18 wrote: »
    Hard to show it unless they get access to the records though, no, barring another athlete coming out with his own records and proving he was doped.

    Surely he would fail a drug testing? Or IAAF need to change their tests?

    He has done nothing to suggest he cheated


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    So many people saying he cheated


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    From Mo himself:

    C5mA8BqWMAAfkPc.jpg

    Mo is a proven and consistent liar so I would take anything he says with more than a pinch of salt. Remember that time he said he didn't know who Jama Aden was after Aden got busted and that Aden simply "held a stopwatch for Mo". And then in his own autobiography it's turn out they have actually been friends for years.

    Any athlete who takes prescription drugs with no medical need, solely for performance benefits is hugely questionable, even if he's not a doper. Especially an athlete who has made a remarkable improvement late on in his career.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭jamule


    Salazar operates right on the limits always did always will, i'm sure he's strayed beyond it at times, but he is too careful and too smart to get caught.

    People are getting ethics and morals mixed up with doping. What he is does is not tasteful, he just uses every possible thing he can get away with (bullying officials at meets etc etc)


    If his athletes are doping ( ie taking banned substances) they'd be caught along tine ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Itziger


    walshb wrote: »
    I think its more idiotic to not ask questions if the person who transformed his career is shown to be behaving outside the rules.

    Hence my point. Maybe disassociate yourself from Salazar.

    Anyway, no matter what there will always be idiots labelling clean athletes as cheats.

    I read the links and articles. More horsesh1t.. if there is actual cheating then go and expose it....this incessant BS and innuendo and speculation and he said she said. Wake up, fellas. It's garbage.

    You rarely miss an opportunity to insult people who see things differently to you. Some people are suspicious, understandable in the times we live in. There is a hell of a lot of smoke around Salazar. Proving rule breaking can be quite difficult as we have seen over and over again. The East Germans were never caught back in the day, FloJo never failed a test as far as I know. Michelle Smith didn't actually fail a doping test. Did someone say Lance?? So, unless you're a proven drug cheat, then by definition you're 'clean'. In 99.9% of cases the cheats say, 'I'm clean.... I've never been caught'.
    What are they going to say? But people being suspicious and probing when there are indications of wrong doing.... That doesn't make them idiots. Same as athletes not failing a test doesn't always equal clean.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Mo is a proven and consistent liar so I would take anything he says with more than a pinch of salt. Remember that time he said he didn't know who Jama Aden was after Aden got busted and that Aden simply "held a stopwatch for Mo". And then in his own autobiography it's turn out they have actually been friends for years.

    Any athlete who takes prescription drugs with no medical need, solely for performance benefits is hugely questionable, even if he's not a doper. Especially an athlete who has made a remarkable improvement late on in his career.

    Is there that much progression. He has ran sub 13min since 2003.

    His 1500m time has improved by 7 secs.

    His 10,000 over ten years has improved by 40 secs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Itziger wrote: »
    You rarely miss an opportunity to insult people who see things differently to you. .

    You one of these idiots?

    Being suspicious and asking questions is one thing; flat out claiming an athelete's a cheat with 0 evidence is where the idiots come in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Anyone with half a brain who researches Mo and his times and improvements could not ever put it down to only being the result of PEDs..his main PBs to the best of my knowledge don't make the top ten times in any distance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Btw, referencing drugs cheats in the 70s and 80s to today's climate and standards is idiotic. There was no drugs testing worth a damn in those times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭jamule


    Salazar is a prick and a successful wanker and doesn't give a **** who he upsets to keep his athletes winning.

    People get that confused with be a coach that cheats with banned substances.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    jamule wrote: »

    If his athletes are doping ( ie taking banned substances) they'd be caught along tine ago.

    You know that's not true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    You know that's not true.

    Exactly, hence retrospective tests etc. Look at how many athletes got busted from the Beijing Olympics using frozen samples.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭jamule


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Exactly, hence retrospective tests etc. Look at how many athletes got busted from the Beijing Olympics using frozen samples.

    Plenty more in london too and I'm sure a few will turn up from Rio.

    How many were coached by Salazar?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    jamule wrote: »
    Plenty more in london too and I'm sure a few will turn up from Rio.

    How many were coached by Salazar?

    I agree with you, none yet unfortunately. However, testing testosterone levels on your own sons, testing supplement levels on your assistant coach (Magness), giving testosterone to a 16 year old (Rupp), giving your athletes unnecessary prescription drugs, hollowing out books to sneak drugs to an athlete. These are not the actions of an innocent and rational man. Time will tell.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Since when does testing stuff make someone not an innocent man?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    pconn062 wrote: »
    I agree with you, none yet unfortunately. However, testing testosterone levels on your own sons, testing supplement levels on your assistant coach (Magness), giving testosterone to a 16 year old (Rupp), giving your athletes unnecessary prescription drugs, hollowing out books to sneak drugs to an athlete. These are not the actions of an innocent and rational man. Time will tell.

    I am all for continuing testing to catch the cheats from previous races. But at the moment mo and report are clean.

    All of the above is hear say, nothing proven in the court of law. It could be true but it can't be proven or backed up.

    No fan of the coach but so far he done nothing wrong.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭overpronator


    It's the big jump between 2009 and 2011 that stands out for Farah as we all know.

    At Worlds in 09, the field goes through the bell in 12:23, and Farah runs a 57s last lap but is blown away and finishes 7th.

    Monaco in 2011, the field goes through the bell in 12:00 and Farah runs a 53s last lap to win.

    No two ways about it, that's big improvement for someone aged 27.

    Never mind the 3.28 1500

    Is it evidence of doping? No of course it isnt but it stands out. Then the drip drip of Salazar, Aden etc is taken into consideration.

    If he did it clean fair play to him but there are clear grey areas.

    Not fussed by petty insults from other posters, tells you plenty about the type of person youre dealing with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    walshb wrote: »
    Since when does testing stuff make someone not an innocent man?

    Ha, you're a gas man.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee


    Reminds me of one of the old Lance Armsrong threads. Always amusing to look back on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    I am all for continuing testing to catch the cheats from previous races. But at the moment mo and report are clean.

    All of the above is hear say, nothing proven in the court of law. It could be true but it can't be proven or backed up.

    No fan of the coach but so far he done nothing wrong.

    We can only but hope.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    It's the big jump between 2009 and 2011 that stands out for Farah as we all know.

    At Worlds in 09, the field goes through the bell in 12:23, and Farah runs a 57s last lap but is blown away and finishes 7th.

    Monaco in 2011, the field goes through the bell in 12:00 and Farah runs a 53s last lap to win.

    No two ways about it, that's big improvement for someone aged 27.

    Never mind the 3.28 1500

    Is it evidence of doping? No of course it isnt but it stands out. Then the drip drip of Salazar, Aden etc is taken into consideration.

    If he did it clean fair play to him but there are clear grey areas.

    Not fussed by petty insults from other posters, tells you plenty about the type of person youre dealing with.

    So he ran 16 seconds faster than his time in 2009 at palace, where he ran it 4 seconds faster 2010.

    Now did you compare the conditions, fast times for the track or the splits? Just wondering.


    Also he joined Salazar in 2011, so his time improvement under Salazar was 4 secs compare to his previous coach


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Reminds me of one of the old Lance Armsrong threads. Always amusing to look back on.

    He is not destroying runners by 100m or something.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    When he breaks 12 minutes for 5k and 3 mins for 1500 get back to me...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    It's the big jump between 2009 and 2011 that stands out for Farah as we all know.

    At Worlds in 09, the field goes through the bell in 12:23, and Farah runs a 57s last lap but is blown away and finishes 7th.

    Monaco in 2011, the field goes through the bell in 12:00 and Farah runs a 53s last lap to win.

    No two ways about it, that's big improvement for someone aged 27.

    Never mind the 3.28 1500

    Is it evidence of doping? No of course it isnt but it stands out. Then the drip drip of Salazar, Aden etc is taken into consideration.

    If he did it clean fair play to him but there are clear grey areas.

    Not fussed by petty insults from other posters, tells you plenty about the type of person youre dealing with.

    Don't know and don't really care if the man is clean or not, but with all due respect I don't think it's fair to draw conclusions from two races two years apart one way or another.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    walshb wrote: »
    When he breaks 12 minutes for 5k and 3 mins for 1500 get back to me...

    What about the old sub 2 marathon chestnut. Would that make you suspicious?

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Don't know and don't really care if the man is clean or not, but with all due respect I don't think it's fair to draw conclusions from two races two years apart one way or another.

    Well it's only 4 seconds really under two different coaches.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,620 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    What about the old sub 2 marathon chestnut. Would that make you suspicious?

    Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!


  • Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭runnerholic


    walshb wrote: »
    Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!


    Farah will never get a marathon world record never mind a sub 2hr.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    walshb wrote: »
    Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!
    Yep, and if he adapts Rupp's cooling hat technique and the sky is the limit!

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭jamule


    walshb wrote: »
    Working class heroes;102750792What about the old sub 2 marathon chestnut. Would that make you suspicious?

    Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!
    don't forget about the new springy light, cushiony super d'duper never imaginged before shoes that everyone needs, most important


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭ultrapercy


    I am all for continuing testing to catch the cheats from previous races. But at the moment mo and report are clean.

    All of the above is hear say, nothing proven in the court of law. It could be true but it can't be proven or backed up.

    No fan of the coach but so far he done nothing wrong.

    like Nelson Muntz said "it's a victumless crime like punching someone in the dark". Its not that he has done nothing wrong he just hasn't been caught (fully) yet.


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