Alberto Salazar in Doping Scandal

pconn062 · 25-02-2017 11:50pm #1

https://twitter.com/JCalvertST/status/835587702531706880

Big story about to break alleging Salazar was giving his top athletes (including Mo) prescription drugs even when not medically required to boost athletics performances.

From the article:

https://twitter.com/MoDoorbell/status/835614707801280513

Hopefully this is the start of the castle crumbling.

adrian522 · 25-02-2017 11:53pm

Was all this not in the panorama doc a few years ago?

pconn062 · 25-02-2017 11:55pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Was all this not in the panorama doc a few years ago?

These are new allegations, particularly the prescription drug part.

Murph_D · 26-02-2017 12:00am

Can't read linked article fully, but original doc had plenty of stuff about using prescription medication under Therapeutic Use Exemption status.

Frankie Lee · 26-02-2017 12:04am

http://www.foxsports.com/olympics/story/alberto-salazar-banned-drugs-usada-report-investigation-nike-022517

I would absolutely love it if Sir Mo gets taken down.

pconn062 · 26-02-2017 12:07am

From the article (The Sunday Times will have it tomorrow):

"USADA believes the L-carnitine infusions given by intravenous drip to six top American runners training with Salazar "almost certainly" broke anti-doping rules. L-carnitine is not a banned substance for athletes but infusions of more than 50ml in the space of six hours are prohibited."

El Caballo · 26-02-2017 12:23am

pconn062 wrote: »

From the article (The Sunday Times will have it tomorrow):

"USADA believes the L-carnitine infusions given by intravenous drip to six top American runners training with Salazar "almost certainly" broke anti-doping rules. L-carnitine is not a banned substance for athletes but infusions of more than 50ml in the space of six hours are prohibited."

Worrding is non-conclusive really, the times front page has a lot of "almost Certainly" and "potentially" and the health angle tells me that there is nothing of concrete evidence from the USADA report if these are the biggest quotes they could pull from what I assume is a huge document.

The prescription drugs is not new, Kara Goucher came out that time about Cytomel as have many athletes with "overactive thyroids" in NOP and athletics, Alberto used to be called Albuterol Salazar back in the 80's and Jeffrey Brown is known to meet athletes "prescription needs" for years, Carl Lewis was a patient of his. The one major thing I can spot in that article is the dose to time on infusions and nothing will probably come of it as how do they prove it, they don't even test for L-Carnitine as its not banned. Everything so far is a rehash of 2015 and the report was published in March 2016, nothing has happened a year after

El Caballo · 26-02-2017 1:07am

USADA tried to unsuccessfully depose Dr. Brown 4 months after the report was published. The judge ruled that USADA lacked evidence and were on a "fishing expedition to see if they can find some kind of a problem"

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/sports/olympics/usada-doping-endocrinologist-investigation.amp.html

If they couldn't fry Brown, I don't think they'll get anywhere with NOP.

TFBubendorfer · 26-02-2017 2:23pm

From Mo himself:

velo.2010 · 26-02-2017 2:48pm

'I am a clean athlete who has never broken the rules in regards to substances, methods or dosages'.

Well, if the allegations are true then you have Mo! If not, then you still certainly bent the rules as far as you could.

walshb · 26-02-2017 4:28pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

http://www.foxsports.com/olympics/story/alberto-salazar-banned-drugs-usada-report-investigation-nike-022517

I would absolutely love it if Sir Mo gets taken down.

Even if he is a clean athlete?

Stupid thing to say...

walshb · 26-02-2017 4:31pm

Mo maybe should think about disassociating himself from Salazar. His honesty and cleanness will be automatically questioned, and to many idiots he'll be labelled a PED user by association.

walshb · 26-02-2017 4:35pm

Are the allegations suggesting that these drugs being prescribed and administered are banned PEDs?

overpronator · 26-02-2017 4:49pm

walshb wrote: »

Mo maybe should think about disassociating himself from Salazar. His honesty and cleanness will be automatically questioned, and to many idiots he'll be labelled a PED user by association.

I think its more idiotic to not ask questions if the person who transformed his career is shown to be behaving outside the rules.

walshb · 26-02-2017 4:55pm

overpronator wrote: »

I think its more idiotic to not ask questions if the person who transformed his career is shown to be behaving outside the rules.

Hence my point. Maybe disassociate yourself from Salazar.

Anyway, no matter what there will always be idiots labelling clean athletes as cheats.

I read the links and articles. More horsesh1t.. if there is actual cheating then go and expose it....this incessant BS and innuendo and speculation and he said she said. Wake up, fellas. It's garbage.

titan18 · 26-02-2017 5:03pm

walshb wrote: »

Hence my point. Maybe disassociate yourself from Salazar.

Anyway, no matter what there will always be idiots labelling clean athletes as cheats.

I read the links and articles. More horsesh1t.. if there is actual cheating then go and expose it....this incessant BS and innuendo and speculation and he said she said. Wake up, fellas. It's garbage.

So, athletes come out against him saying he's done sh1t, and then a report comes out saying he's denied investigators access to files that they'd need to fully prove if he and his athletes are cheating or not, and you think it's all garbage?

walshb · 26-02-2017 5:05pm

titan18 wrote: »

So, athletes come out against him saying he's done sh1t, and then a report comes out saying he's denied investigators access to files that they'd need to fully prove if he and his athletes are cheating or not, and you think it's all garbage?

Until they prove sh1t, yes it is garbage. Mo is spot on. If you have something to show, show it.

average_runner · 26-02-2017 5:11pm

walshb wrote: »

Until they prove sh1t, yes it is garbage. Mo is spot on. If you have something to show, show it.

Why so much hate for Mo?

It's not like he is running against world class runners at the moment

titan18 · 26-02-2017 5:14pm

walshb wrote: »

Until they prove sh1t, yes it is garbage. Mo is spot on. If you have something to show, show it.

Hard to show it unless they get access to the records though, no, barring another athlete coming out with his own records and proving he was doped.

walshb · 26-02-2017 5:23pm

average_runner wrote: »

Why so much hate for Mo?

It's not like he is running against world class runners at the moment

What are you talking about?

average_runner · 26-02-2017 5:23pm

titan18 wrote: »

Hard to show it unless they get access to the records though, no, barring another athlete coming out with his own records and proving he was doped.

Surely he would fail a drug testing? Or IAAF need to change their tests?

He has done nothing to suggest he cheated

average_runner · 26-02-2017 5:24pm

walshb wrote: »

What are you talking about?

So many people saying he cheated

pconn062 · 26-02-2017 7:35pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

From Mo himself:

Mo is a proven and consistent liar so I would take anything he says with more than a pinch of salt. Remember that time he said he didn't know who Jama Aden was after Aden got busted and that Aden simply "held a stopwatch for Mo". And then in his own autobiography it's turn out they have actually been friends for years.

Any athlete who takes prescription drugs with no medical need, solely for performance benefits is hugely questionable, even if he's not a doper. Especially an athlete who has made a remarkable improvement late on in his career.

jamule · 26-02-2017 7:42pm

Salazar operates right on the limits always did always will, i'm sure he's strayed beyond it at times, but he is too careful and too smart to get caught.

People are getting ethics and morals mixed up with doping. What he is does is not tasteful, he just uses every possible thing he can get away with (bullying officials at meets etc etc)

If his athletes are doping ( ie taking banned substances) they'd be caught along tine ago.

Itziger · 26-02-2017 7:46pm

walshb wrote: »

overpronator wrote: »

I think its more idiotic to not ask questions if the person who transformed his career is shown to be behaving outside the rules.

Hence my point. Maybe disassociate yourself from Salazar.

Anyway, no matter what there will always be idiots labelling clean athletes as cheats.

I read the links and articles. More horsesh1t.. if there is actual cheating then go and expose it....this incessant BS and innuendo and speculation and he said she said. Wake up, fellas. It's garbage.

You rarely miss an opportunity to insult people who see things differently to you. Some people are suspicious, understandable in the times we live in. There is a hell of a lot of smoke around Salazar. Proving rule breaking can be quite difficult as we have seen over and over again. The East Germans were never caught back in the day, FloJo never failed a test as far as I know. Michelle Smith didn't actually fail a doping test. Did someone say Lance?? So, unless you're a proven drug cheat, then by definition you're 'clean'. In 99.9% of cases the cheats say, 'I'm clean.... I've never been caught'.
What are they going to say? But people being suspicious and probing when there are indications of wrong doing.... That doesn't make them idiots. Same as athletes not failing a test doesn't always equal clean.

average_runner · 26-02-2017 7:47pm

pconn062 wrote: »

Mo is a proven and consistent liar so I would take anything he says with more than a pinch of salt. Remember that time he said he didn't know who Jama Aden was after Aden got busted and that Aden simply "held a stopwatch for Mo". And then in his own autobiography it's turn out they have actually been friends for years.

Any athlete who takes prescription drugs with no medical need, solely for performance benefits is hugely questionable, even if he's not a doper. Especially an athlete who has made a remarkable improvement late on in his career.

Is there that much progression. He has ran sub 13min since 2003.

His 1500m time has improved by 7 secs.

His 10,000 over ten years has improved by 40 secs.

walshb · 26-02-2017 9:11pm

Itziger wrote: »

You rarely miss an opportunity to insult people who see things differently to you. .

You one of these idiots?

Being suspicious and asking questions is one thing; flat out claiming an athelete's a cheat with 0 evidence is where the idiots come in.

walshb · 26-02-2017 9:18pm

Anyone with half a brain who researches Mo and his times and improvements could not ever put it down to only being the result of PEDs..his main PBs to the best of my knowledge don't make the top ten times in any distance.

walshb · 26-02-2017 9:27pm

Btw, referencing drugs cheats in the 70s and 80s to today's climate and standards is idiotic. There was no drugs testing worth a damn in those times.

jamule · 26-02-2017 9:34pm

Salazar is a prick and a successful wanker and doesn't give a **** who he upsets to keep his athletes winning.

People get that confused with be a coach that cheats with banned substances.

ThisRegard · 26-02-2017 9:58pm

jamule wrote: »

If his athletes are doping ( ie taking banned substances) they'd be caught along tine ago.

You know that's not true.

pconn062 · 26-02-2017 10:03pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

You know that's not true.

Exactly, hence retrospective tests etc. Look at how many athletes got busted from the Beijing Olympics using frozen samples.

jamule · 26-02-2017 10:13pm

pconn062 wrote: »

Exactly, hence retrospective tests etc. Look at how many athletes got busted from the Beijing Olympics using frozen samples.

Plenty more in london too and I'm sure a few will turn up from Rio.

How many were coached by Salazar?

pconn062 · 26-02-2017 10:32pm

jamule wrote: »

Plenty more in london too and I'm sure a few will turn up from Rio.

How many were coached by Salazar?

I agree with you, none yet unfortunately. However, testing testosterone levels on your own sons, testing supplement levels on your assistant coach (Magness), giving testosterone to a 16 year old (Rupp), giving your athletes unnecessary prescription drugs, hollowing out books to sneak drugs to an athlete. These are not the actions of an innocent and rational man. Time will tell.

walshb · 26-02-2017 10:40pm

Since when does testing stuff make someone not an innocent man?

average_runner · 26-02-2017 10:44pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I agree with you, none yet unfortunately. However, testing testosterone levels on your own sons, testing supplement levels on your assistant coach (Magness), giving testosterone to a 16 year old (Rupp), giving your athletes unnecessary prescription drugs, hollowing out books to sneak drugs to an athlete. These are not the actions of an innocent and rational man. Time will tell.

I am all for continuing testing to catch the cheats from previous races. But at the moment mo and report are clean.

All of the above is hear say, nothing proven in the court of law. It could be true but it can't be proven or backed up.

No fan of the coach but so far he done nothing wrong.

overpronator · 26-02-2017 10:44pm

It's the big jump between 2009 and 2011 that stands out for Farah as we all know.

At Worlds in 09, the field goes through the bell in 12:23, and Farah runs a 57s last lap but is blown away and finishes 7th.

Monaco in 2011, the field goes through the bell in 12:00 and Farah runs a 53s last lap to win.

No two ways about it, that's big improvement for someone aged 27.

Never mind the 3.28 1500

Is it evidence of doping? No of course it isnt but it stands out. Then the drip drip of Salazar, Aden etc is taken into consideration.

If he did it clean fair play to him but there are clear grey areas.

Not fussed by petty insults from other posters, tells you plenty about the type of person youre dealing with.

pconn062 · 26-02-2017 10:46pm

walshb wrote: »

Since when does testing stuff make someone not an innocent man?

Ha, you're a gas man.

Frankie Lee · 26-02-2017 10:48pm

Reminds me of one of the old Lance Armsrong threads. Always amusing to look back on.

pconn062 · 26-02-2017 10:49pm

average_runner wrote: »

I am all for continuing testing to catch the cheats from previous races. But at the moment mo and report are clean.

All of the above is hear say, nothing proven in the court of law. It could be true but it can't be proven or backed up.

No fan of the coach but so far he done nothing wrong.

We can only but hope.

average_runner · 26-02-2017 10:50pm

overpronator wrote: »

It's the big jump between 2009 and 2011 that stands out for Farah as we all know.

At Worlds in 09, the field goes through the bell in 12:23, and Farah runs a 57s last lap but is blown away and finishes 7th.

Monaco in 2011, the field goes through the bell in 12:00 and Farah runs a 53s last lap to win.

No two ways about it, that's big improvement for someone aged 27.

Never mind the 3.28 1500

Is it evidence of doping? No of course it isnt but it stands out. Then the drip drip of Salazar, Aden etc is taken into consideration.

If he did it clean fair play to him but there are clear grey areas.

Not fussed by petty insults from other posters, tells you plenty about the type of person youre dealing with.

So he ran 16 seconds faster than his time in 2009 at palace, where he ran it 4 seconds faster 2010.

Now did you compare the conditions, fast times for the track or the splits? Just wondering.

Also he joined Salazar in 2011, so his time improvement under Salazar was 4 secs compare to his previous coach

average_runner · 26-02-2017 10:57pm

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Reminds me of one of the old Lance Armsrong threads. Always amusing to look back on.

He is not destroying runners by 100m or something.

walshb · 26-02-2017 11:05pm

When he breaks 12 minutes for 5k and 3 mins for 1500 get back to me...

Working class heroes · 26-02-2017 11:10pm

overpronator wrote: »

It's the big jump between 2009 and 2011 that stands out for Farah as we all know.

At Worlds in 09, the field goes through the bell in 12:23, and Farah runs a 57s last lap but is blown away and finishes 7th.

Monaco in 2011, the field goes through the bell in 12:00 and Farah runs a 53s last lap to win.

No two ways about it, that's big improvement for someone aged 27.

Never mind the 3.28 1500

Is it evidence of doping? No of course it isnt but it stands out. Then the drip drip of Salazar, Aden etc is taken into consideration.

If he did it clean fair play to him but there are clear grey areas.

Not fussed by petty insults from other posters, tells you plenty about the type of person youre dealing with.

Don't know and don't really care if the man is clean or not, but with all due respect I don't think it's fair to draw conclusions from two races two years apart one way or another.

Working class heroes · 26-02-2017 11:12pm

walshb wrote: »

When he breaks 12 minutes for 5k and 3 mins for 1500 get back to me...

What about the old sub 2 marathon chestnut. Would that make you suspicious?

average_runner · 26-02-2017 11:27pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Don't know and don't really care if the man is clean or not, but with all due respect I don't think it's fair to draw conclusions from two races two years apart one way or another.

Well it's only 4 seconds really under two different coaches.

walshb · 26-02-2017 11:28pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

What about the old sub 2 marathon chestnut. Would that make you suspicious?

Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!

runnerholic · 26-02-2017 11:35pm

walshb wrote: »

Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!

Farah will never get a marathon world record never mind a sub 2hr.

Working class heroes · 26-02-2017 11:51pm

walshb wrote: »

Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!

Yep, and if he adapts Rupp's cooling hat technique and the sky is the limit!

jamule · 27-02-2017 8:19am

walshb wrote: »

Working class heroes;102750792What about the old sub 2 marathon chestnut. Would that make you suspicious?

Not at all. Bit of extra effort and money and that barrier tumbles!

don't forget about the new springy light, cushiony super d'duper never imaginged before shoes that everyone needs, most important

ultrapercy · 27-02-2017 10:53am

average_runner wrote: »

I am all for continuing testing to catch the cheats from previous races. But at the moment mo and report are clean.

All of the above is hear say, nothing proven in the court of law. It could be true but it can't be proven or backed up.

No fan of the coach but so far he done nothing wrong.

like Nelson Muntz said "it's a victumless crime like punching someone in the dark". Its not that he has done nothing wrong he just hasn't been caught (fully) yet.

Alberto Salazar in Doping Scandal

Comments