Attic conversion - velux windows

Sunrise_Sunset · 22-07-2019 9:26pm #1

Does an attic conversion with front facing velux windows always require planning permission? Or are they any exemptions? Conversion was completed 10 years ago.

Graham · 22-07-2019 9:27pm

Mod Note

Thread moved to construction & planning.

Gumbo · 22-07-2019 10:41pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Does an attic conversion with front facing velux windows always require planning permission? Or are they any exemptions? Conversion was completed 10 years ago.

There are no exemptions for Velux windows in the front elevation.
Even built 10 years ago. This is only important if the council try to take enforcement action.

But, if your selling then it will stop a sale especially if a bank is providing a mortgage.

Options include reinstatement if the roof or apply for retention planning to keep them.

Sunrise_Sunset · 22-07-2019 10:57pm

kceire wrote: »

There are no exemptions for Velux windows in the front elevation.
Even built 10 years ago. This is only important if the council try to take enforcement action.

But, if your selling then it will stop a sale especially if a bank is providing a mortgage.

Options include reinstatement if the roof or apply for retention planning to keep them.

Could you reinstate the front roof and put the windows to the back? Would this rule out planning permission? How costly would this be for 2 windows? I would presume it would be a quicker process than retention, but more costly.

DOCARCH · 23-07-2019 6:58am

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Could you reinstate the front roof and put the windows to the back?

You could.

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 11:49am

Would there be a case for finding it hard to prove that the windows are front facing? Or is there more to it than that?
The windows are at the front, facing onto the south side of a green area. There are apartments on the north side of the green area, they have windows to the back, but area also facing onto the green area.

Claw Hammer · 23-07-2019 11:53am

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Would there be a case for finding it hard to prove that the windows are front facing? Or is there more to it than that?
The windows are at the front, facing onto the south side of a green area. There are apartments on the north side of the green area, they have windows to the back, but area also facing onto the green area.

You either have planning permission or you don't. You can't represent to anybody that you have planning permission just because it might be difficult to prove you broke the law.

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 11:55am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You either have planning permission or you don't. You can't represent to anybody that you have planning permission just because it might be difficult to prove you broke the law.

Well if the Surveyor says that we might not need planning permission because of this then it makes a difference. Hence my question.

Claw Hammer · 23-07-2019 11:58am

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Well if the Surveyor says that we might not need planning permission because of this then it makes a difference. Hence my question.

I was a surveyor going to say that. It will be the surveyor for the purchaser who will see it. You will also be asked in your requisitions on title if there has been any alteration for which planning permission was required. You cannot tell a lie about it. To claim something is exempt you will have to produce a report from an engineer saying so and his basis for saying it. No engineer is going to look at that and say that it doesn't need planning.

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 12:01pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I was a surveyor going to say that. It will be the surveyor for the purchaser who will see it. You will also be asked in your requisitions on title if there has been any alteration for which planning permission was required. You cannot tell a lie about it. To claim something is exempt you will have to produce a report from an engineer saying so and his basis for saying it. No engineer is going to look at that and say that it doesn't need planning.

I'm not going to lie about it! If we need to apply for retention then we will.
I'm asking if this is definite case of needing retention planning permission, or if the Surveyor might say that the windows are not, or might not, be front facing because of this.

Claw Hammer · 23-07-2019 12:07pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

I'm not going to lie about it! If we need to apply for retention then we will.
I'm asking if this is definite case of needing retention planning permission, or if the Surveyor might say that the windows are not, or might not, be front facing because of this.

If they can be viewed from the public road across the front entrance, they are front facing.

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 12:13pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If they can be viewed from the public road across the front entrance, they are front facing.

They can't be viewed from the public road at the front entrance. There is a row of apartments on the north side of the green blocking that view. There is then another row in front of that row, and a gate to the estate.
They can be viewed from within the estate, not sure if that's classed as a public or private road. Would it be public too?

mickdw · 23-07-2019 12:19pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

I'm not going to lie about it! If we need to apply for retention then we will.
I'm asking if this is definite case of needing retention planning permission, or if the Surveyor might say that the windows are not, or might not, be front facing because of this.

If they can be viewed from the public road across the front entrance, they are front facing.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Would there be a case for finding it hard to prove that the windows are front facing? Or is there more to it than that?
The windows are at the front, facing onto the south side of a green area. There are apartments on the north side of the green area, they have windows to the back, but area also facing onto the green area.

You either have planning permission or you don't. You can't represent to anybody that you have planning permission just because it might be difficult to prove you broke the law.

I think you are being harsh. There are many instances of the front not being the front in terms of planning and as such the op is well advised to look into this. If its certifiable as exempt, it's all good.
In the general case, front facing roof windows need planning. Any further comment without seeing the property is going to be worthless.

Claw Hammer · 23-07-2019 12:19pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

They can't be viewed from the public road at the front entrance. There is a row of apartments on the north side of the green blocking that view. There is then another row in front of that row, and a gate to the estate.
They can be viewed from within the estate, not sure if that's classed as a public or private road. Would it be public too?

They windows are visible from a road in front of the entrance to the property and as such are in the front of the property. the ownership of the road is irrelevant. You are not dealing with a drink driving prosecution here where some technicality might get you out. You should admit to your wrongdoing and deal with it.

Gumbo · 23-07-2019 1:20pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

They can't be viewed from the public road at the front entrance. There is a row of apartments on the north side of the green blocking that view. There is then another row in front of that row, and a gate to the estate.
They can be viewed from within the estate, not sure if that's classed as a public or private road. Would it be public too?

Send me a PM with your address or a photo and ill give my opinion by PM.

Gumbo · 23-07-2019 2:42pm

OK I wont say too much on thread as the OP sent a PM.
But my opinion is that the Velux are front facing. I now understand what the OP means by not facing a road etc, but the position of the front entrance relative to all other front entrances in my opinion brings on the Planning requirement.

Theres a bigger issue at play here and ill post it up to see what other proples opinions are :

Duplex unit over a ground floor separate unit, classed as flats/apartments in the Building Regulations. conversion of the attic space would require a Fire Safety Cert in my opinion. Thoughts?

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 2:52pm

kceire wrote: »

OK I wont say too much on thread as the OP sent a PM.
But my opinion is that the Velux are front facing. I now understand what the OP means by not facing a road etc, but the position of the front entrance relative to all other front entrances in my opinion brings on the Planning requirement.

Theres a bigger issue at play here and ill post it up to see what other proples opinions are :

Duplex unit over a ground floor separate unit, classed as flats/apartments in the Building Regulations. conversion of the attic space would require a Fire Safety Cert in my opinion. Thoughts?

The property below us is the duplex. The apartment we own is above the duplex. Excluding the attic conversion, the apartment is on one level, except for a flight of stairs as you come in the front door entrance, which is at the same level as the duplex below us.

We would take out the windows and put them in the back.

Penn · 23-07-2019 3:19pm

kceire wrote: »

Theres a bigger issue at play here and ill post it up to see what other proples opinions are :

Duplex unit over a ground floor separate unit, classed as flats/apartments in the Building Regulations. conversion of the attic space would require a Fire Safety Cert in my opinion. Thoughts?

Yes, material alterations to flats/apartments would require a FSC in my opinion. Flats/duplexes/apartments covered under Volume 1 of Part B, not the new Volume 2 for Dwelling Houses. As such a flat/duplex is a 'dwelling', but not a 'dwelling house', therefore FSC required.

Penn · 23-07-2019 3:24pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

The property below us is the duplex. The apartment we own is above the duplex. Excluding the attic conversion, the apartment is on one level, except for a flight of stairs as you come in the front door entrance, which is at the same level as the duplex below us.

Both the ground floor unit and the first floor unit both count as "the duplex". The first floor unit (excluding attic conversion) is counted as a 'flat' under the building regulations:

"flat" means separate and self-contained premises constructed or adapted for residential use and forming part of a building from some other part of which it is divided horizontally;

Hence why a flat (divided horizontally) is different to a semi-detached/terraced house (divided vertically).

I would be of the opinion that unless can be proven otherwise, the attic conversion to the first floor flat would require a Fire Safety Certificate.

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 3:28pm

Penn wrote: »

Both the ground floor unit and the first floor unit both count as "the duplex". The first floor unit (excluding attic conversion) is counted as a 'flat' under the building regulations:

"flat" means separate and self-contained premises constructed or adapted for residential use and forming part of a building from some other part of which it is divided horizontally;

Hence why a flat (divided horizontally) is different to a semi-detached/terraced house (divided vertically).

I would be of the opinion that unless can be proven otherwise, the attic conversion to the first floor flat would require a Fire Safety Certificate.

Ok thank you. I'll ask the Surveyor about this too.
The apartment/flat is on the 2nd floor. The duplex below us is on the ground and first floor.

Claw Hammer · 23-07-2019 5:56pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Ok thank you. I'll ask the Surveyor about this too.
The apartment/flat is on the 2nd floor. The duplex below us is on the ground and first floor.

If that is the case, then the applicant is the 3rd floor with 3 floors below?

Gumbo · 23-07-2019 6:51pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If that is the case, then the applicant is the 3rd floor with 3 floors below?

Yes, but he owns the top 3 floors.
Ground - separate owner
First - Separate owner
Second - OP
Attic - OP

May also need management company approval as its part of an apartment block. May need to upgrade the fire alarm and prevention features significantly. Also, as the works are done, it’s a regularization FSC so will most likely guarantee a visit from the Fire Officer.

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 7:09pm

kceire wrote: »

Yes, but he owns the top 3 floors.
Ground - separate owner
First - OP
Second - OP
Attic - OP

May also need management company approval as its part of an apartment block. May need to upgrade the fire alarm and prevention features significantly. Also, as the works are done, it’s a regularization FSC so will most likely guarantee a visit from the Fire Officer.

Ground - separate owner
First - separate owner Only our front door is on this level - this is the upstairs of the duplex below our apartment
Second - ours
Attic - ours

Yes we've been advised we need approval from the Management Company too.

Gumbo · 23-07-2019 7:22pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Ground - separate owner
First - separate owner Only our front door is on this level - this is the upstairs of the duplex below our apartment
Second - ours
Attic - ours

Yes we've been advised we need approval from the Management Company too.

Sorry. Edited now.
Hope you get sorted. It’s an expensive road if I’m honest and at least a 3-4 month process assuming it goes smoothly.

Sunrise_Sunset · 23-07-2019 7:28pm

kceire wrote: »

Sorry. Edited now.
Hope you get sorted. It’s an expensive road if I’m honest and at least a 3-4 month process assuming it goes smoothly.

Thank you. Appreciate the advice. Really hope we get sorted too without having to go back to square one. But let's see.

Gumbo · 23-07-2019 10:12pm

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Thank you. Appreciate the advice. Really hope we get sorted too without having to go back to square one. But let's see.

Keep us updated anyhow.

Attic conversion - velux windows

Comments