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Family split by son

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  • 11-04-2012 4:10pm
    #1
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭


    The story from begining:
    Friend of mine reared her three children alone after marriage ended. The ex disappeared from his children's lives, no contact, no support, only turning up out of the blue occasionally and taking one of the children at a time out for a few hours. She put a stop to this as it was upsetting the two left behind tremendously, and he refused to go to mediation or any other form of help to try to regulate the situation for the children.
    Fast forward to last September, the eldest son is now 29, he asks his mother for a loan of 60 euro to help with his home business. Having sent money to her youngest in college , she was a bit short herself, but didn't hesitate to give it to him as he promised he would repay her the following evening. Two days later, no money, three days later, no money, on the fifth day, after telling him she had no food in the house for the previous two days, she called to his flat , knowing he was signing on that day. She looked up at his bedroom window and saw him look out at her, but he refused to answer the door. She became angry and upset, and banged on door and shouted through letterbox, confused and deeply hurt at his behaviour. That was last September, he has refused to speak to her since, even avoiding the home at Christmas, ignoring her on Mother's Day, and not answering text messages from her. His long time girlfriend who used to sit in car outside his mother's house when he called before all this happened, is ''refusing to get involved''

    Sorry for long story, but this guy is splitting up the family, his sister and brother don't want to fall out with him, but now his mother is so dismayed, hurt and devastated by his behaviour she feels the only option open to her is to cut him out of her life as she does in no way deserve this appalling treatment of her. this of course will affect any future family occasions, what else can she do?


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    #2
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Moved from AH.


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    #3
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭firedancer


    The mother is mystified by the treatment of her by her son, he was on back to work allowance for starting up own business , she's not upset by money not being repaid, but by complete dissing of her by him, and I just wanted to give full background story as it may be the son is following mistreatment of her in the same vein as his absent father.
    I reckon she should step back and let him eventually sort his own head out, but that the girlfriend isn't helping matters, judging by previous behaviour from her.


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    #4
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Okay folks - please note you are in PI now, the rules of this forum now apply and unhelpful and off-topic posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

    Many thanks.


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    #5
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    Small loans often go unpaid within families the only thing to do is make it clear the terms of the loan were broken so there will be no more money lent, assuming it was clear what the time limit was, anyway yes the money isn't important unless he messed up and is too ashamed to be faced with questions about his failures and financial situation, like when did this all change? the best thing is not to react to this is hostility but you cant control what your mother does and she cant control what he does, he must choose for himself to talk to someone professionally or send a letter/talk to your mother but if hes in the middle of what ever is causing the problem its gonna be hard so it might take time.

    If he has been like this for a while you know its something going on with him, like I know a family and the father was cold and distant and the eldest son is resentful over that and drags himself to the fewest gatherings possible but its less about what happened when they were kids I think and more about the mother being too proactive in interacting with him as if he was able to respond normally.

    It's okay to give a family member space and make it clear that she is there to talk about anything troubling him, wont give out to him and forget about the money (this time) and just give him space to feel like everyone isnt raging at him because he doesnt sound like hes doing well atm and if he doesn't take offers of support step away, not in anger but she cant fix his problems and even though they are a family member they cannot be allowed to disrespect or cause trouble "because theyre family".


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    #6
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭firedancer


    I know she's not bothered about the money at this stage, it's because he has been blanking her since it happened , last September, he is punishing her for something he did.
    I agree with you on just because 'they're family ' people shouldn't behave like morons and then stroll in months or even years later like nothing has happened He is really making this woman suffer, but I think that completely cutting him out of future family gatherings, by not invitiing him etc, will only make it worse.
    However he is not communicating at all now, only with his sister, he is living in his girlfriends mothers' house, and nobody from his family was ever invited over there, only his sister, I knew him siince he was a child, and this behaviour is out of character for him . They were always a close family.
    His mother also thought about calling over there, and insist on sorting it out, but I think she should leave it and wait for him now to make the first move, however long it takes. But I feel his girlfriend should be doing more to help sort it.


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    #7
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    hmm insisting on sorting it out will cause aggravation, I'm not sure how but if he is left with an open invitation to come around when ever he is ready and post invites/text that will leave the ball in his court as much as it hurts for a family member to be distant that turning into confrontations and saying why should I bother will make it end in a complete cut between any remaining ties at least the open invitation will always be there rather than a you better start behaving or we wont talk to you anymore because it doesnt sound like there is much of a relationship there so nothing will sort it out in one sitting my advice is an open invitation he might come back in years and say I'm sorry my head was messed up/gf didn't want me to../didn't get along with x member of family and it was hard to keep up a relationship with anyone other than y/I didn't feel like anyone understood me/ etc. etc. could be anything he might want to keep a distance forever I've seen that happen but he has chosen these actions and it sounds like there is more going on here and not much that can be done in the short term.


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    #8
    saa
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    I think you mentioned he does have some contact but not enough maybe its the discomfort on both sides i.e the son not feeling comfortable about turning up more and the mothers discomfort at the lack of engagement by the son, if the mother could accept the way things are b/c no one can convince him to do everything he is being asked for within his family role and its hard to convince the mother not be upset by his distance but at the end of the day you can't fix this or make people close or change your mothers mind maybe talk to her about what she feels and what she thinks has to be done because I think you mentioned about giving him space and youre so right thats all you can do.


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The poor woman. She must be so disappointed by his behavior specially after raising them on her own.

    He's probably embarrassed/ashamed, or maybe felt manipulated and helpless when his mam said she'd had no food for two days because of him? It does seem though that it could be an accumulation of things and not just the unrepaid loan but who knows? The girlfriend insisting on waiting in the car is odd so it seems like there were problems before the loan.

    Whatever the issues are I don't think cutting him out will give your friend any peace at all, the opposite in fact. If anything happened to him she'd never forgive herself. Maybe suggest to her to imagine getting the dreaded knock on the door in the middle of the night. This might help her to see this for what it is, in the grand scheme of things.. Am not saying this lightly as I have personal experience of a scenario that went unresolved. How we handle thes things can leave everlasting scars and regrets.

    As the parent, could she write him a little note saying that she really misses him and could they put the past behind them and he's always in her heart and welcome in her home? That way, whenever he's ready to talk about what's really been going on for him, he'll feel he can approach her, and if anything ever happens to him she will be at peace that she did all she could to build bridges. Hope this helps and that your friend finds some peace with the situation.


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    #10
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭firedancer


    i know she is thinking about what if anything happened to her, how could he live with himself, the girlfriend had no reason not to go into the house with him, just is a bit odd , i myself thought this behaviour was a sign of things to come.
    Any guy worth his salt would tell his girlfriend not to be so insulting towards his mother, if she didn't want to come iinto the house with him on a visit, then stay at home.

    I know his mother has left him messages and has been doing so since last september, saying she would do anything to fix this, but then when he ignored her and insisted on dragging it out and making it worse by not calling at Christmas she got more and more hurt and is now very angry , this kind of thing can carry on for years sometimes, i think he is being very cruel and self centered, the rest of the family are being hurt by his actions also .

    Thing is, I can see what this is doing to her, she is now suffering from depression, she did everything and gave everythng up for her kids, as a lone parent it was very tough, I see it as him blaming her for all his problems as she is an easy target for him. Yes there were problems growing up , he was in trouble with the guards, was very wild but she never threw it back at him ever, he was thrown out of every school he went to, and left school at junior cert.
    She developed a drink problem when they were in their teens, but has managed to beat that now, with little or no support from him ever. he is far from being an angel himself, it seems to me he is punishing her for his past.

    He is also out of contact with his grandparents with whom he had a great relationship in the past, they helped out a lot when he was growing up without a father. Also he has very little contact with his brother.


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    #11
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Seems like a lot of drama over very little. The guy obviously messed up and wasn't able to repay the money. His mother lent money she couldn't afford to live without. If I read right she also gave (not lent) money to another child at the same time. It sounds like the mother went a bit overboard hassling him to get it back with a bit of emotional manipulation thrown in.

    I'm not going to say he shouldn't pay her back and I'm not going to say it's only 60 euros but a bit of pragmatism wouldn't go astray. I would write off the debt, not loan him any more and let him know there are no hard feelings.

    And I think the girlfriend is completely right not to get involved.

    edit: just read the last post from the OP. If the mother has already done everything to smooth things over there's not much left to do but wait.


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    #12
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭firedancer


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Seems like a lot of drama over very little. The guy obviously messed up and wasn't able to repay the money. His mother lent money she couldn't afford to live without. If I read right she also gave (not lent) money to another child at the same time. It sounds like the mother went a bit overboard hassling him to get it back with a bit of emotional manipulation thrown in.

    I'm not going to say he shouldn't pay her back and I'm not going to say it's only 60 euros but a bit of pragmatism wouldn't go astray. I would write off the debt, not loan him any more and let him know there are no hard feelings.

    And I think the girlfriend is completely right not to get involved.

    edit: just read the last post from the OP. If the mother has already done everything to smooth things over there's not much left to do but wait.
    She went around to him on the fifth day to get some money to buy food.
    He left her standing at the door. She is not worried about the money at all.
    She is gobsmacked, and was at the time, at his treatment of her. She lent/gave the money to the other youngest sibling as she was in college and the mother was rightly feeling responsible to support her in this. Her son was working, and getting back to work allowance, she did him a favour. The girlfriend was already acting strangely towards her from long before any of this occurred, and was already 'involved' by virtue of the fact that she had a bad attitude towards the mother historically for no known reason , thus I suspect 'influence' on her son's attitude towards her.


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    #13
    I am a friend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭I am a friend


    With all due respect why is this an issue for you?


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    #14
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭firedancer


    I am a friend wrote: »
    With all due respect why is this an issue for you?

    if you've nothing to add, with all due respect, why are you worried about me?

    my friend is becoming clinically depressed over this, it is deeply affecting her, her world view is that no amount of success is worth anything without her family's happiness. She views this split as something that will become more difficult to repair as time goes by. They were always a very close family.
    It's not something I would discuss openly with others and as it is good to get other views on something like this, I thought experienced, kind, compassionate , boardsies might have a solution or at least some advice.


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    #15
    I am a friend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭I am a friend


    firedancer wrote: »
    if you've nothing to add, with all due respect, why are you worried about me?

    Its supposed to be PERSONAL Issues.

    I dont think 3rd and 4th party advice based on info from a biased 3rd party will do her any good.


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    #16
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭firedancer


    I am a friend wrote: »
    Its supposed to be PERSONAL Issues.

    I dont think 3rd and 4th party advice based on info from a biased 3rd party will do her any good.

    thanks for your input. Invaluable.


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    #17
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Folks, enough of the bickering or the thread will be locked.

    I am a friend - lay off the back-seat modding.

    Cheers

    As per site rules - take up any issue you have with a moderator instruction via PM - do not drag the thread off-topic.


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    #18
    Danniboo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Danniboo


    OP,

    How do you see the girlfriend sitting in the car means she's automatically involved with the son owing his mother money?????? Makes absolutely no sense.

    As for the whole part at the start about the mother raising the kids after the break up, good on her, but at the same time it seems completely irrelevant to this situation. Unless there's something we're missing.

    Is the whole "I raised you on my own" card something that gets bounced around a lot in the household.

    I can't help feel that there's more to this than meets the eye. Unless the gf is absolutely dog ignorant or painfully shy I can't fathom why she would sit outside in the car for no good reason.

    It's crap the way the son has behaved he should have answered the door or at least said he didn't have the money, but again I don't think it's all black and white.

    Your the mothers friend, so we're getting a bias third hand story.


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    #19
    firedancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭firedancer


    No she's not the 'look at all I did for ye and this is how ye repay me'' type, not at all, as I said, I only wanted to give a bit of background by telling the whole story, she is living out the country with no access to broadband, she came in y'day to mine and had a read of this, she was feeling isolated and found a few answers on here very helpful and gave her some more perspective , that's all.

    With regard to the girlfriend, he has changed since meeting her almost four years ago, and the family feel he is being influenced by her to the detriment of his relationship with them as she had a negative attitude from the start to his family , that's all.

    I can't understand why some posters on here are so openly hostile with my trying to help someone out.


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    In fairness, it's very hard to watch our close friends or family suffer, and it helps to get objective advice about how best to support them.
    OP, have to say, I'd love to have a friend who was so concerned about me and I admire that about you :)

    Just one theory, but your friend had a problem with alcohol in the past, maybe at a time in her sons life when he needed her. This is just a theory but maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe he's told the girlfriend what it was like for him with no dad and a drunk mum and how that affected him? It takes years to resolve issues like that and maybe he's going through a phase of resentment, and the girlfriend is naturally going to support him, and take that resentment on herself, maybe even more so. That's happened with my husband who can't forgive some people for their treatment of me, even though I've dealt with things and let them go...

    This man is making choices and he's choosing not to engage with his mum at the moment. That will probably change over time as long as he knows the door is always open. I still think a letter or card would be a good idea, and let her leave it at that.

    In terms of your role in this as her close friend, maybe you could take on the role of oil on troubled water, try to calm her down and advise her not to burn any bridges with her son, or his girlfriend, that would help in the long run.
    You could help her to focus on the positive things in her life, such as the rest of her family and friends, and help her to find a really good counselor to deal with the depression.


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    #21
    Danniboo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Danniboo


    firedancer wrote: »
    No she's not the 'look at all I did for ye and this is how ye repay me'' type, not at all, as I said, I only wanted to give a bit of background by telling the whole story, she is living out the country with no access to broadband, she came in y'day to mine and had a read of this, she was feeling isolated and found a few answers on here very helpful and gave her some more perspective , that's all.

    With regard to the girlfriend, he has changed since meeting her almost four years ago, and the family feel he is being influenced by her to the detriment of his relationship with them as she had a negative attitude from the start to his family , that's all.

    I can't understand why some posters on here are so openly hostile with my trying to help someone out.

    Hostile is a bit extreme. You came on here stating how it was black and white and the mother was a saint. Then you eventually admit she has an alcohol problem. You seem preoccupied with blaming everything on the girlfriend when it has absolutely nothing to do with her. Lay off her. Sounds to me like the son had a **** time growing up the complete opposite to the nice picture you've painted. Take off the blinkers for goodness sake.


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    #22
    ppink
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ppink


    firedancer wrote: »
    No she's not the 'look at all I did for ye and this is how ye repay me'' type, not at all, as I said, I only wanted to give a bit of background by telling the whole story, she is living out the country with no access to broadband, she came in y'day to mine and had a read of this, she was feeling isolated and found a few answers on here very helpful and gave her some more perspective , that's all.

    With regard to the girlfriend, he has changed since meeting her almost four years ago, and the family feel he is being influenced by her to the detriment of his relationship with them as she had a negative attitude from the start to his family , that's all.

    I can't understand why some posters on here are so openly hostile with my trying to help someone out.

    the girlfriends attitude towards his family is more than likely coming from things he has told her about them, otherwise how would she know anything? If he was happy with his family any mis-conceptions she had would have been sorted by him.
    It bugs the life out of me when people apportion blame to the girlfriend. he is the one with the issue and is big enough to be able to have a family relationship if he wants it.
    If I was in your friends situation I would write him a letter and tell him how I felt and that I hoped some day maybe he would be able to sit down and discuss the issues to give me a chance to put it right.


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    #23
    newuser30
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭newuser30


    I dont get some of the frankly mean spirited replies here. It can be very distressing to watch a close and much loved friend going through something like this and not knowing how to help. I would second the advice to get your friend to write a letter to her son, outlining that she misses him, loves him, and it has nothing to do with the money owed. (The girlfriend is not an issue in this, its between her and him.) She needs to let go of whatever has gone in the past and concentrate on the important stuff. He may be holding onto hurt from the past and it may not be as easy for him, but at least if she spells out how much she wants her son back in her life in the letter he'll know this and it will be up to him to take the next step. She'll know she did what she could and reached out, instead of just cutting him out without trying and regretting it later.


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