Irexit Freedom Party

ancapailldorcha · 24-05-2019 10:05am

stefanovich wrote: »

Ireland is woefully underrepresented in the EU. The european parliament is supposed to be the democratic check on the EC but they currently pass EC law without scrutiny.

EU law is above national law, the EC churns out this law from the obscurity of Brussels

Can you prove there is no scrutiny?

FreudianSlippers · 24-05-2019 10:34am

stefanovich wrote: »

Ireland is woefully underrepresented in the EU.

Ireland is over-represented per capita in the EU.

The european parliament is supposed to be the democratic check on the EC but they currently pass EC law without scrutiny.

Statement of fact supported by zero evidence = false.

EU law is above national law, the EC churns out this law from the obscurity of Brussels

EU law is actually not superior to national law in terms of the sovereign. EU Regulations have direct effect, but do not apply to the sovereign of Member States. EU Directives must be implemented by national legislation and, where necessary, require Constitutional referenda.

In short: everything you wrote is nonsense.

dulpit · 24-05-2019 10:36am

stefanovich wrote: »

Ireland is woefully underrepresented in the EU. The european parliament is supposed to be the democratic check on the EC but they currently pass EC law without scrutiny.

EU law is above national law, the EC churns out this law from the obscurity of Brussels

Ireland has a population that amounts to ~0.93%. We have 11 MEPs from last parliament, which is 1.46%. We have 1 commissioner out of 28, which is 3.57%. The European council has 30 people if you include the 2 non-voting members, which is 3.33%. By any count, we're over represented.

(Note: these are based on UK still being in).

Seth Brundle · 24-05-2019 10:55am

stefanovich wrote: »

Ireland is woefully underrepresented in the EU. The european parliament is supposed to be the democratic check on the EC but they currently pass EC law without scrutiny.

EU law is above national law, the EC churns out this law from the obscurity of Brussels

Every so often you or another Irexit fan arrives and posts the same nonsense.
All of it based on no facts and just the kind of wishy washy shíte you see on Facebook.

relax carry on · 24-05-2019 12:33pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Ireland is woefully underrepresented in the EU. The european parliament is supposed to be the democratic check on the EC but they currently pass EC law without scrutiny.

EU law is above national law, the EC churns out this law from the obscurity of Brussels

Bit of reading in order.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/chapter/209/how-the-european-union-works

ancapailldorcha · 24-05-2019 12:46pm

the_syco · 24-05-2019 1:00pm

Dr Brown wrote: »

Mass Immigration of any kind is bad for Ireland.

Is this regarding the foreign nurses? The foreign doctors? Or the people that will do the jobs that are "beneath" those on the dole who complain about the foreigners taking their jobs?

expectationlost wrote: »

they havn't applied to be a political party yet have they? not on register

This allows them to not have to show where the donations are coming from, I think?

stefanovich wrote: »

Ireland needs to align with post brexit UK

So that every single *RA spin off does a bombing campaign in the UK again?

Seth Brundle · 24-05-2019 1:47pm

the_syco wrote: »

Is this regarding the foreign nurses? The foreign doctors? Or the people that will do the jobs that are "beneath" those on the dole who complain about the foreigners taking their jobs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pFD3rmHA3s

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:07am

dulpit wrote: »

Ireland has a population that amounts to ~0.93%. We have 11 MEPs from last parliament, which is 1.46%. We have 1 commissioner out of 28, which is 3.57%. The European council has 30 people if you include the 2 non-voting members, which is 3.33%. By any count, we're over represented.

(Note: these are based on UK still being in).

0.93 to 1.46. It's still nothing.

Ireland obviously doesn't like to govern itself. Cut free from the British and after a few years we need someone else to tell us how to run the country.

Ireland has no say in the EU we just do what we are told.

They'll have no issue sacrificing our wellbeing for the sake of the european project and to try to make an example of the UK.

Best solution now, especially if there is a hard brexit, would be for Ireland to follow suit.

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2019 10:08am

Do you have any sort of logical, fleshed-out argument at all or are soundbytes the limit of insight I can expect here?

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:09am

dulpit wrote: »

Ireland has a population that amounts to ~0.93%. We have 11 MEPs from last parliament, which is 1.46%. We have 1 commissioner out of 28, which is 3.57%. The European council has 30 people if you include the 2 non-voting members, which is 3.33%. By any count, we're over represented.

(Note: these are based on UK still being in).

European commission is unelected and undemocratic and they draft all the laws.

Some FG yes man gets appointed for being a good boy.

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2019 10:11am

stefanovich wrote: »

European commission is unelected and undemocratic and they draft all the laws.

Some FG yes man gets appointed for being a good boy.

Separation of the executive and the legislature is a foundational tenet of most liberal democracies.

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:13am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Do you have any sort of logical, fleshed-out argument at all or are soundbytes the limit of insight I can expect here?

What, like the comic strip you posted above?

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:13am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Separation of the executive and the legislature is a foundational tenet of most liberal democracies.

Usually the elected parliament is capable of drafting laws.

Hurrache · 25-05-2019 10:16am

stefanovich wrote: »

0.93 to 1.46. It's still nothing.

The goalposts are back behind you. You claimed we were woefully underrepresented, were given actual facts and figures to prove the contrary, and now seem to be in a completely different stadium altogether.

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:21am

Hurrache wrote: »

The goalposts are back behind you. You claimed we were woefully underrepresented, were given actual facts and figures to prove the contrary, and now seem to be in a completely different stadium altogether.

Ireland is a little fish in a big pond with German and French sharks.

If you are okay with Germany and France dictating the laws here then fine. If, on the other hand, you think that Irish sovereignty is worth protecting then you must acknowledge that ceding power to Brussels is an afront to that sovereignty.

Now we will be a situation where the UK leaves Europe and Europe forces Ireland to restrict trade and movement between here and the UK.

Once they force us to increase the corporate tax rate our economy will be well and truely screwed.

At least we got to get one back at the little Englanders!

Hurrache · 25-05-2019 10:22am

What laws have France and Germany dictated to us, should be easy to detail a few.

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:29am

Hurrache wrote: »

What laws have France and Germany dictated to us, should be easy to detail a few.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/oj/direct-access.html?locale=en

Seth Brundle · 25-05-2019 10:31am

stefanovich wrote: »

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/oj/direct-access.html?locale=en

Is that your example? :rolleyes:

Hurrache · 25-05-2019 10:33am

stefanovich wrote: »

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/oj/direct-access.html?locale=en

Not sure if you posted the wrong link.

Anyway, detail what laws Germany and France dictated to us?

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:33am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Is that your example? :rolleyes:

Feel free to browse. The general focus seems to be protectionism and price fixing and unnecessary regulation.

Hurrache · 25-05-2019 10:43am

stefanovich wrote: »

Feel free to browse. The general focus seems to be protectionism and price fixing and unnecessary regulation.

No, you made another unsubstantiated claim, one you seem so sure of, and yet when asked, to nobodies surprise, you're unable to give even one example.

Thankfully our electorate are much more sophisticated and not as dumb as Herman hoped for. How's his polling looking?

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 10:44am

Hurrache wrote: »

No, you made another unsubstantiated claim, one you seem so sure of, and yet when asked, to nobodies surprise, you're unable to give even one example.

Thankfully our electorate are much more sophisticated and not as dumb as Herman hoped for. How's his polling looking?

Sophisticated. Is that how you feel as new Europeans?

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2019 10:45am

stefanovich wrote: »

What, like the comic strip you posted above?

Not remotely. That was a meme.

stefanovich wrote: »

Usually the elected parliament is capable of drafting laws.

It's not supposed to be. Classical English liberal thought is that powers should be separated as much as possible. It's why we have an independent judiciary. The Legislature should not be drafting and approving its own laws.

Hurrache · 25-05-2019 10:49am

stefanovich wrote: »

Sophisticated. Is that how you feel as new Europeans?

So you can read my posts.

Those German and French dictated laws?

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2019 10:50am

stefanovich wrote: »

Feel free to browse.

Ie, feel free to make your argument for you. No thanks.

Seth Brundle · 25-05-2019 3:42pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Feel free to browse. The general focus seems to be protectionism and price fixing and unnecessary regulation.

So in other words you have no examples of laws that France and Germany have dictated to us.
Not even one!
:rolleyes:

stefanovich · 25-05-2019 4:55pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So in other words you have no examples of laws that France and Germany have dictated to us.
Not even one!
:rolleyes:

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ie, feel free to make your argument for you. No thanks.

So numerous and entangled. Reading that site is like exploring a cancerous tumour.

ArchXStanton · 25-05-2019 5:09pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Ireland is a little fish in a big pond with German and French sharks.

If you are okay with Germany and France dictating the laws here then fine. If, on the other hand, you think that Irish sovereignty is worth protecting then you must acknowledge that ceding power to Brussels is an afront to that sovereignty.

Now we will be a situation where the UK leaves Europe and Europe forces Ireland to restrict trade and movement between here and the UK.

Once they force us to increase the corporate tax rate our economy will be well and truely screwed.

At least we got to get one back at the little Englanders!

There's no doubt France and Germany seem to set the agenda for the EU, I thought our tax rate and neutrality was one of the amendments (excuses) to rerun the Lisbon vote and now the EU seems to be working on both, anyhooo Herman Kelly got my vote yesterday, I don't like the carry on out of the EU with its complete lack of respect for democracy whilst claiming to be some gold standard of democracy and were its heading

ArchXStanton · 25-05-2019 5:11pm

dulpit wrote: »

The EU is anti democracy. You'll see, after all of the voting that happens this weekend. :rolleyes:

It has a piss poor history of respecting national referendums, there either rerun or completely ignored and brought in through the backdoor

the_syco · 25-05-2019 5:36pm

stefanovich wrote: »

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/oj/direct-access.html?locale=en

Give us three examples. You were asked for proof, but only came back with a vague search engine...

Hurrache · 25-05-2019 6:28pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

It has a piss poor history of respecting national referendums, there either rerun or completely ignored and brought in through the backdoor

People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?

ArchXStanton · 25-05-2019 6:47pm

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?

What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

amcalester · 25-05-2019 6:50pm

Brexit?

The UK can leave whenever they want, they just have to decide how they want to leave. So far the government, never mind parliament, have not been able to agree on that

That has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

Showing your ignorance there.

Hammer Archer · 25-05-2019 7:03pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?

What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

The Nice and Lisbon treaties were rerun after Ireland gained concessions based on the initial rejections.
The Greek bailout referendum wasn't ignored. They rejected the terms of the bailout and that was accepted. The Greek government proposed other terms and these were accepted.
There is no such thing as an EU constitution anymore so I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that the Dutch and French referendums were ignored.
The Danes were granted a number of opt outs from the Maastricht treaty leading to the second vote passing.
And the UK are free to leave the EU tomorrow if they wish.

Happy to help.

Seth Brundle · 25-05-2019 7:09pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

...because the original Brexit has gone so well?
There is not one positive to Brexit that stands up to any kind of scrutiny!

Hurrache · 25-05-2019 7:10pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?

What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

Brexit, the referendum that's a referendum that the EU had absolutely no input into from the outset, nor will they in any potential second one? That referendum?

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2019 7:14pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Quote: Hurrache
People outside of English tabloids still trot this rubbish out?

What's rubbish about it?

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/bZnoegk

I've a feeling we'll be adding another Brexit referendum to that list..

The Made to vote again stuff is nonsense. Patently so I might add.

ArchXStanton · 25-05-2019 7:23pm

Hammer Archer wrote: »

The Nice and Lisbon treaties were rerun after Ireland gained concessions based on the initial rejections.
The Greek bailout referendum wasn't ignored. They rejected the terms of the bailout and that was accepted. The Greek government proposed other terms and these were accepted.
There is no such thing as an EU constitution anymore so I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that the Dutch and French referendums were ignored.
The Danes were granted a number of opt outs from the Maastricht treaty leading to the second vote passing.
And the UK are free to leave the EU tomorrow if they wish.

Happy to help.

The EU constitution was repackaged in the Lisbon treaty and subsequent referendums in other countries were cancelled when they seen the French and Dutch votes

The concessions were just an excuse for a revote here, i can remember quite clearly Cowan on TV here saying our vote would be respected only for him to be summoned to the EU Parliament were he looked like a slapped school boy... Oh yeah and "vote yes for jobs" (scumbags)

Amazing these revotes only happen when it doesn't go the EUs way then it's done and dusted never to be revisited, fairly dubious democracy...

"there can be no democratic choices against the EU treaties" - Juncker.... Indeed JC... Indeed

ArchXStanton · 25-05-2019 7:26pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The Made to vote again stuff is nonsense. Patently so I might add.

If it was a tin pot dictator in Africa (i can remember the EU frothing at the mouth over Mugabe and his one man candidate election whilst we had to revote on Lisbon, the irony) or a regime in South America pulling these stunts they'd be up in arms over it..

ancapailldorcha · 25-05-2019 7:30pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

If it was a tin pot dictator in Africa (i can remember the EU frothing at the mouth over Mugabe and his one man candidate election whilst we had to revote on Lisbon, the irony) or a regime in South America pulling these stunts they'd be up in arms over it..

There is no irony. The EU did not make us vote on Lisbon.

Do you actually care about this at all or do you just want to spout the same tropes over and over again?

ArchXStanton · 26-05-2019 10:02am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There is no irony. The EU did not make us vote on Lisbon.

Do you actually care about this at all or do you just want to spout the same tropes over and over again?

Ireland came under pressure from the EU, do you remember Sarkozy - "the Irish must vote again!" the day the No vote was returned, what business does a French politician have telling the Irish people that, that's some neck in fairness..

I was a No campaigner during both Lisbon referendums,it was around this time I really started to look into the EU and I don't like what I see, I don't think you'll find a more anti EU poster on this site..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/19/lisbon.ireland

ancapailldorcha · 26-05-2019 10:04am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Ireland came under pressure from the EU, do you remember Sarkozy - "the Irish must vote again!" the day the No vote was returned, what business does a French politician have telling the Irish people that, that's some neck in fairness..

I was a No campaigner during both Lisbon referendums,it was around this time I really started to look into the EU and I don't like what I see, I don't think you'll find a more anti EU poster on this site..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/19/lisbon.ireland

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Even if I accept the obviously false premise that the Irish were forced by their European masters to vote again, then the direct conclusion that can be drawn from the yes vote in the second instance is that we are incredibly stupid and weak minded unless of course something was changed which it was.

stefanovich · 26-05-2019 10:17am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Even if I accept the obviously false premise that the Irish were forced by their European masters to vote again, then the direct conclusion that can be drawn from the yes vote in the second instance is that we are incredibly stupid and weak minded unless of course something was changed which it was.

When veto is removed in 2020, because of the Lisbon treaty, increased corporation tax will be pushed on us against our will.

ancapailldorcha · 26-05-2019 10:18am

stefanovich wrote: »

When veto is removed in 2020, because of the Lisbon treaty, increased corporation tax will be pushed on us against our will.

More unsubstantiated soundbytes.

ArchXStanton · 26-05-2019 10:20am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Well there you have it, obviously you had no interest in events at the time....

Sarkozy was on a plane to Dublin within weeks after this statement

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/2437817/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Ireland-must-vote-again-on-EU-Lisbon-treaty.html

If other countries had gotten to hold a referendum on Lisbon instead of it being ratified it would have been shot down aswell, especially in the UK

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/3559425/Ireland-says-No-to-Treaty-of-Lisbon-and-No-say-all-of-us.html

ArchXStanton · 26-05-2019 10:21am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

More unsubstantiated soundbytes.

They're already working on our tax rate... One of the "assurances" for the Lisbon revote

ancapailldorcha · 26-05-2019 10:22am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

They're already working on our tax rate... One of the "assurances" for the Lisbon revote

Proof?

ArchXStanton · 26-05-2019 10:23am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't remember as it happens.

Sarkozy saying something does not constitute coercion. Why would you think that it does?

Even if I accept the obviously false premise that the Irish were forced by their European masters to vote again, then the direct conclusion that can be drawn from the yes vote in the second instance is that we are incredibly stupid and weak minded unless of course something was changed which it was.

"vote yes for jobs!"

Right around the time of massive unemployment was the carrot on the stick....

ArchXStanton · 26-05-2019 10:25am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Proof?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/ireland-under-fresh-attack-from-eu-on-corporation-tax-897813.html

Seriously lads do yas pay no attention to the rumblings from Brussels...

Irexit Freedom Party

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