BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 3:58pm

cfuserkildare wrote: »

How so?

I work in IT, and have done for almost 20 years.

Explain how Tiny my reality really is!!

Ok here goes, but first I will need you to answer some questions.

1) How many black people do you know?
2) How many black people are there?

Divide one into the other to get your answer.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 4:00pm

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

??? Angry? Nope. I notice this is a default conclusion leapt to by certain posters on here to dismiss and demean their fellow posters without crossing the line of “ attacking the poster” and incurring the wrath of the report button.

What a ridiculous analogy you’ve used with the run the World song. I presume you must agree with the rest of my post.

OK, you're not angry but yet you like to refer to people you couldn't possibly know as a Witch, and littering your post with misspelled curse words so you can avoid the Boards censoring them for you.... Sure.

Sounds like people call you angry a lot.... can't all be wrong.

Also, great argument - telling me my analogy is ridiculous but giving no reason as to why you think so.... let me guess, you're one of those people who like to make statements and then finish the sentence with the word "FACT!", thinking you've made a killer argument? I'll tell you why its not ridiculous - both are about empowering groups who have historically faced prejudice.

Don't assume I agree with anything you've said, its highly unlikely.

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 4:00pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Well then they should say so, "all lives matter".

How does that draw attention to the fact that currently, black lives demonstrably don't matter as much as white lives do?

What do you think needs to change for lives other than black lives to make them matter more? Is it even possible to make white lives matter more? Who is suppressing your white lives at the moment?

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 4:03pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Well then they should say so, "all lives matter".

Here's another way of looking at it.
If you say "Coke is great", does that mean that all other drinks are somehow less great?
Should Pepsi and others be up in arms that you are somehow putting them down?

The BLM movement is explicitly *not* saying that BLM more or WLM less, they are just trying to draw attention to the fact that BLM. Unfortunately they need to do this because they live in a society that frequently tells and shows them that BLDM.

Pretzill · 29-06-2020 4:04pm

The reality in a lot of countries across the world in that lives don't matter - from modern day slavery, child exploitation, women trafficking, poverty, famine, war across all races and cultures. I'd rather raise my flags for these causes than fight political semantics with groups of angry young men.

rossie1977 · 29-06-2020 4:06pm

Baffled by those thinking carrying around "white lives matter" signs won't garner a negative reaction.

It would be akin to bringing "Protestant lives matter" banners down the bogside and falls road in the 1970s.

punisher5112 · 29-06-2020 4:08pm

true-or-false wrote: »

Yeah, and if you don't understand why then there's no talking to you.

Regardless of your opinion of the BLM movement and the actions of it's members, no one should have a problem with the phrase 'Black lives matter'. It's the absolute definition of white privilege, that the statement 'Black lives matter' makes you feel as though the significance of your life is being left out. That you feel that it implies that your life doesn't matter. Because you're used to the idea of mattering, and being counted, and that equality means getting exactly as much attention as everyone else.

'All lives matter'/'white lives matter' is meaningless, because across this country these facts are already assumed. 'Black lives matter' highlights the fact that black lives are not thought about in the same way as white lives, that being black is seen as different, that when people talk about norms they don't include the experience of black people and that black people are not generally represented politically, legally or in the media in the same way that white people are. To hear 'black lives matter' and reply with 'all/white lives matter', is to dismiss racism. It's taking that phrase and erasing black people from it. Erasing their voice and their identity. That's racism.

Bizarre post at best....

It's not racism.

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-06-2020 4:08pm

briany wrote: »

Dave Chappelle did a good bit on it where he compared the crack epidemic among blacks to the opioid epidemic among whites, and questioned why the former was treated as a criminal problem whereas there is at least an awareness of a health problem in the latter case. Why the disparity of public sympathy?

The first was by personal choice, gang association and social/peer pressure and so on.

The 2nd was through medication, as an actual remedy for actual health issues, pushed via big pharma (since penalised for). When the oxy-medicine was pulled from folks with bad backs etc, they're weren't offered any remedy other than cold turkey, or to turn the black market, to resolve physical pain.

Skylinehead · 29-06-2020 4:09pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Well then they should say so, "all lives matter".

Why? To placate idiots that don't understand the message, or worse, placate idiots that understand the message perfectly well but want to twist it to suit their own agenda anyway?

southstar · 29-06-2020 4:11pm

SozBbz wrote: »

I'll stick wtih outcomes, thanks.

I'd like outcomes where my black friends and colleagues don't get extra hassle at airports, don't get pulled over more often, aren't subject to sly comments that start with "I'm not a racist but...". Those outcomes are important.

This is a great distinction relied upon by those who actually don't want equality.

Why are you so threatened?

Who's giving them extra hassle at airports..the black guy/cop/official searching/questioning them...because that's my mainly my experience in American airports at least.
As for sly racist comments...happens both ways..and how do you plan to regulate for that..set up a reeducatlon camp.The entitled bleating from race hustlers and the shameless manipulation of white guilt certainly won't help with that one

Geuze · 29-06-2020 4:11pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

When a group says among its goals are "to dismantling capitalism and the patriarchal system, disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure" you know you are not dealing with sound minded people.

Yes, correct.

I wonder do the protestors on the streets realise that BLM are anti-family?

Imagine rearing children collectively, rather than in a family.

It's interesting that behind both Greta Thunberg and BLM are ideologies with little to do with environmentalism or racism.

DavidLyons_ · 29-06-2020 4:11pm

SozBbz wrote: »

OK, you're not angry but yet you like to refer to people you couldn't possibly know as a Witch, and littering your post with misspelled curse words so you can avoid the Boards censoring them for you.... Sure.

Sounds like people call you angry a lot.... can't all be wrong.

Also, great argument - telling me my analogy is ridiculous but giving no reason as to why you think so.... let me guess, you're one of those people who like to make statements and then finish the sentence with the word "FACT!", thinking you've made a killer argument? I'll tell you why its not ridiculous - both are about empowering groups who have historically faced prejudice.

Don't assume I agree with anything you've said, its highly unlikely.

What a disastrous, presumptuous post.

I expect you're quite a joyless, judgmental person.

Mr. Karate · 29-06-2020 4:13pm

briany wrote: »

I assumed that Black Lives Matter originally meant "as well", not "only". It can't really be said that American society at large has historically appeared to give as much of a sh*t when black people are killed by cops or overdose on drugs, or even when black kids go missing (how many black milk carton kids were there?), vs those same things happening to white people. It came across as a simple appeal to be seen as equal.

IF BLM actually gave a **** about Black Lives then they would be protesting in Chicago 24/7. They'd be condemning the slavery of Blacks in parts of Africa that go on to this day. Never a peep out of them about that. Just lame deflections.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 4:13pm

ELM327 wrote: »

The distinction is there so that everyone is given the same chances, but only those who earn them on merit, receive the best outcome.

Not everyone can be the director, the highest paid, etc. Some people have to sweep the floor, do the minimum wage job etc

Yes, I do know that we can't all be CEO's, thanks.

Do you dispute that racial profiling exists?

Do you actually think that a person of colour faces zero adversity above that of the average white irish joe in this country?

I'm talking about base level outcomes - things that everyone should be entitled to expect as members of a functioning society. Like not being hassled by the police, not being called names or told to go home (despite being born here) or told that their natural hair looks unprofessional.... do you really think dealing with all that gives you an equal opportunity to achieve your full potential?

Until we really start treating all people equally, then how are opportunities really equal? Until we make it socially unacceptable to casually treat people as "other" because of their skin colour, theres no such thing as equality of opportunity.

If you're white (which I am and presumably you are too) you don't notice that you don't have those hassles. It doesn't mean you don't have any hassles, but you don't also have to deal with some of the above BS as well as the hardships that we all face.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 4:16pm

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

What a disastrous, presumptuous post.

I expect you're quite a joyless, judgmental person. You're absolutely correct, it wiil always be very unlikely I'd agree with you.

OK cool, angry man.

You've still not actually made any points, you're just trying to be offensive - lucky I've a thicker skin than some.

You sound like the type of person I'm happy to have nothing in common with.

Mr. Karate · 29-06-2020 4:19pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Well then they should say so, "all lives matter".

Or not take it as a personal attack when someone says All Lives Matter.

Cordell · 29-06-2020 4:20pm

SozBbz wrote: »

I'll stick wtih outcomes, thanks.

I'd like outcomes where my black friends and colleagues don't get extra hassle at airports, don't get pulled over more often, aren't subject to sly comments that start with "I'm not a racist but...". Those outcomes are important.

This is a great distinction relied upon by those who actually don't want equality.

Why are you so threatened?

That is in fact the equality of opportunity: all are to be treated equally, all have the same opportunity to wait in line and be on the flight if they were at the airport in time, or miss the flight if they were late.
But when someone who was late at the airport is placed ahead in the queue and makes the flight just as those that were not late and waited patiently, this is the equality of outcome.

DavidLyons_ · 29-06-2020 4:23pm

SozBbz wrote: »

OK cool, angry man.

You've still not actually made any points, you're just trying to be offensive - lucky I've a thicker skin than some.

You sound like the type of person I'm happy to have nothing in common with.

I made my points in my first post on the thread. You addressed none of them at all except for a pointless, half-@assed jibe in your first response.

You were the one who initially engaged with and responded to me with an incorrect presumption abut my character and yet you now attempt to spin it around on it's head that I'm the one trying to be offensive and on the attack.

I am exactly the type of person who would have noting to do with alip-servicing, white-knighting keyboard warrior such as you. I'm happily going to block you as you've posted probably more than anyone in the thread and have only managed to contribute drivel thus far (I'm more of a reader of threads than a poster by the way).

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 4:24pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

IF BLM actually gave a **** about Black Lives then they would be protesting in Chicago 24/7. They'd be condemning the slavery of Blacks in parts of Africa that go on to this day. Never a peep out of them about that. Just lame deflections.

So what you are saying is that you dont give a **** about black lives yourself then? (Based on the logical conclusion of you not protesting 24/7 in Chicago or parts of Africa)

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 4:24pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Or not take it as a personal attack when someone says All Lives Matter.

They dont take it as an attack, they rightly take it as diluting their point to the point of pointlessness.

Do you go up to people raising money for Cancer research and tell them to piss of because Alzheimers matters too?

NSAman · 29-06-2020 4:24pm

mouldybiscuits wrote: »

BLM is not a civil rights movement, it's a movement with a political agenda.

Not to mention a monied agenda.

Mr. Karate · 29-06-2020 4:25pm

GreeBo wrote: »

They dont take it as an attack, they rightly take it as diluting their point to the point of pointlessness.

You're either for equality or supremacy. You can't have it both ways.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 4:25pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Or not take it as a personal attack when someone says All Lives Matter.

To be clear, you understand that "all lives matter" has been co-opted by some pretty unpleasant people. Are you comfortable aligning yourself with those people?

No one has ever spontaneously said All Lives Matter - its always said to try to undermine Black Lives Matter. Why do you feel the need to undermine a movement thats seeking to promote equality and bring attention to injustice?

BLM is a movement that originated in America. Do you think Black Americans are moaning over nothing? Because if you think that, you really need to open your eyes.

Fred Cryton · 29-06-2020 4:38pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I don't see any issue with that video tbh.

It's basically explaining to those white people who seem to think BLM somehow means BLM more than WLM, that actually BLM means Black Lives Matter Too.

If you are not black then you have no idea what BLM means as having to explain that "lives matter" isn't a thing that has ever occurred to you. You get it for free due to your race. Other races dont and they are a minority, so they are trying to explain to the rest of us "hey, life is kinda sh1t for us yunno, can we get this changed?"

"can we get this changed"...are you serious? Why don't they change it themselves by valuing education, keeping their kids out of crime, ensuring that black fathers stick around (something like 65% of black fathers in UK leave the mother of their child as single mothers, compared with 15% of white fathers).

Always be on the look out for people trying to find an external bogeyman. Reminds me of a teenager who blames their parents, their teachers and everyone else for their own problems.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 4:39pm

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

I made my points in my first post on the thread. You addressed none of them at all except for a pointless, half-@assed jibe in your first response.

You were the one who initially engaged with and responded to me with an incorrect presumption abut my character and yet you now attempt to spin it around on it's head that I'm the one trying to be offensive and on the attack.

I am exactly the type of person who would have noting to do with alip-servicing, white-knighting keyboard warrior such as you. I'm happily going to block you as you've posted probably more than anyone in the thread and have only managed to contribute drivel thus far (I'm more of a reader of threads than a poster by the way).

Grand - explain to me why Beyonce did to you personally for you to refer to her as "that witch". Anyone who refers to people they couldn't possible know like that, sounds angry and unbalanced.

What did the curse words add to your post, other than to let slip your angry disposition.

Great debating style by the way - "I refer you to my first post" and nothing else to say for yourself. Perhaps you should stick to reading.

You're responsible for the impression you create with the words you use. Grand, block me - save yourself from all those PM's I was never going to send you.

29-06-2020 4:43pm

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

It's in the accompanying article.

Mike Wedderburn wrote:

You may have heard the phrase "white privilege" and been antagonised by it. Don't be.

Why not? It's a case of double standards, stereotyping and reverse racism.

It doesn't mean that you live in the lap of luxury and spend your life deciding which magnum of champagne you will have with your dinner. It means that life is tilted in your direction to such an extent that you probably don't even notice.

Which would be applicable to everyone on the planet. They just aren't aware of the benefits that their race brings them...

When you walk around the shops is it assumed you are a criminal? Do the police stop you regularly because you look suspicious? If you are black the answer is yes. Is it for you?

here in Ireland, are black people automatically considered suspicious and probable criminals? No, they're not. Why? Because we don't have a history of Black related crime yet.

This is exporting American cultural habits and applying them to every black person everywhere. It's a blanket statement.

In your business what colour are the people who have the power? What colour are the people who make the decisions? What colour is the manager of your favourite football team? What colour is the owner of your favourite football team?

I live mostly in China, so the answer to that question, is Chinese people. (and whatever color they're supposed to be). If I lived in Ireland, then the answer would probably be white, because the majority population are white.

That's not an indication of privilege. That's an indication of demographics.

The chances are that the answers are probably white and if you are white it has probably never crossed your mind to give it much thought. Have a think about it now. That is white privilege.

No, I've thought about it many times since the whole ugly idea of white privilege raised it's head, and I still find it incredibly ignorant.

The Raging Bile Duct wrote:

Can't see anything wrong there. It's simply trying to explain what people mean about white privilege by giving context.

I don't see anything wrong either with the article. It's similar to other attitudes which promote white privilege and want the whole world to see black people as disadvantaged in every situation. It's absolute BS. Their situation isn't any different from any other minority group in any country in the world... except when it comes to the US.

This is more of the same trend of trying to insist that Black issues in Europe are on par with black issues in the US. They're not even close.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 4:43pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

"can we get this changed"...are you serious? Why don't they change it themselves by valuing education, keeping their kids out of crime, ensuring that black fathers stick around (something like 65% of black fathers in UK leave the mother of their child as single mothers, compared with 15% of white fathers).

Always be on the look out for people trying to find an external bogeyman. Reminds me of a teenager who blames their parents, their teachers and everyone else for their own problems.

WOW

You don't think that historical deprivation and discrimination leads to these social outcomes?

Are you suggesting that its somehow genetic for black men to leave their families?

Look up poverty cycles and poverty traps - its not exclusive to black people (although they're disproportionately represented, especially in countries where racism has been prevalent for generations, ie the US and the UK)

Poverty perpetuates all types of undesirable social outcomes.

southstar · 29-06-2020 4:52pm

SozBbz wrote: »

To be clear, you understand that "all lives matter" has been co-opted by some pretty unpleasant people. Are you comfortable aligning yourself with those people?

No one has ever spontaneously said All Lives Matter - its always said to try to undermine Black Lives Matter. Why do you feel the need to undermine a movement thats seeking to promote equality and bring attention to injustice?

BLM is a movement that originated in America. Do you think Black Americans are moaning over nothing? Because if you think that, you really need to open your eyes.[/quote

Plenty of moaning for sure...although black Americans have made huge strides over the past few decades..Obama is obvious...and will continue to.

Maybe you could point out all this injustice and what need to be done....because I sense a big gravy trains is about to arrive at the station.....all roared on by self righteous chancers and gullible guilt ridden saps ..

29-06-2020 4:52pm

SozBbz wrote: »

WOW

You don't think that historical deprivation and discrimination leads to these social outcomes?

Are you suggesting that its somehow genetic for black men to leave their families?

It's probably cultural rather than genetic. A cycle of behavior passed from father to son, or from mother to son, (depending on how the mother behaved after the father left)

In any case though, he's right about the valuing education, and keeping their kids out of crime. A lot of research over the last decade suggests that one of the biggest reasons for Black males not becoming successful is due to their exposure to crime. Failing education would be another glaringly obvious factor, and yet, look at the rolemodels in Black culture... the pimp, gangster, rapper, etc. People who speak of killing others, insulting women, and calling other black people Nigg**.

Culture plays an important role in the development of people, but within Black culture there is so little debate about changing themselves. Instead, everything is someone elses fault. There are millions of Black people living middle class lifestyles... what was different for them? That's the question you should be asking, since they would have faced the same racial discrimination.

DavidLyons_ · 29-06-2020 4:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's probably cultural rather than genetic. A cycle of behavior passed from father to son, or from mother to son, (depending on how the mother behaved after the father left)

In any case though, he's right about the valuing education, and keeping their kids out of crime. A lot of research over the last decade suggests that one of the biggest reasons for Black males not becoming successful is due to their exposure to crime. Failing education would be another glaringly obvious factor, and yet, look at the rolemodels in Black culture... the pimp, gangster, rapper, etc. People who speak of killing others, insulting women, and calling other black people Nigg**.

Culture plays an important role in the development of people, but within Black culture there is so little debate about changing themselves. Instead, everything is someone elses fault. There are millions of Black people living middle class lifestyles... what was different for them? That's the question you should be asking, since they would have faced the same racial discrimination.

Great response. I have that poster on ignore and can now only see their posts when they are quoted by other posters.

I would urge caution as their line of posting is designed to provoke you into a response which they can then report to mods.

29-06-2020 5:01pm

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

Great response. I have that poster on ignore and can now only see their posts when they are quoted by other posters.

I would urge caution as their line of posting is designed to provoke you into a response which they can then report to mods.

Thanks, although I'd be wondering what I could be reported for... Being reported and being disciplined are two very different things, considering I've only three yellows in my whole time on boards.

suicide_circus · 29-06-2020 5:05pm

Geuze wrote: »

I wonder do the protestors on the streets realise that BLM are anti-family?

Imagine rearing children collectively, rather than in a family.

It'll not be the community rearing these kids, it'll be the state, as is already the case for many.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 5:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's probably cultural rather than genetic. A cycle of behavior passed from father to son, or from mother to son, (depending on how the mother behaved after the father left)

In any case though, he's right about the valuing education, and keeping their kids out of crime. A lot of research over the last decade suggests that one of the biggest reasons for Black males not becoming successful is due to their exposure to crime. Failing education would be another glaringly obvious factor, and yet, look at the rolemodels in Black culture... the pimp, gangster, rapper, etc. People who speak of killing others, insulting women, and calling other black people Nigg**.

Culture plays an important role in the development of people, but within Black culture there is so little debate about changing themselves. Instead, everything is someone elses fault. There are millions of Black people living middle class lifestyles... what was different for them? That's the question you should be asking, since they would have faced the same racial discrimination.

Can you not see that its not just black people perpetuating their own bad behaviour, its society as a whole that perpetuates the status quo.

I'm not disputing that there are negative aspects to black culture, but at the same time i can see that if you live in a society that perpetuates inequality so that people from certain communities don't get the same level of education and are surrounded by deprivation and criminality....and then say its their fault when history repeats itself?

If you're white and middle class then maybe you just see this as "not my problem" and its that tacit acceptance that's actually part of the problem.

I'm not saying black people haven't made strides in the last decades, but similarly to womens rights, just because things are better than they were, doesn't mean that theres not more to do.

suicide_circus · 29-06-2020 5:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Culture plays an important role in the development of people, but within Black culture there is so little debate about changing themselves. Instead, everything is someone elses fault.

anytime an african american does stick their head above the parapet and suggest that black americans may want to get their own house in order in tandem with dealing with the external factors, they are labelled race traitors, uncle toms, house negros etc

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 5:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks, although I'd be wondering what I could be reported for... Being reported and being disciplined are two very different things, considering I've only three yellows in my whole time on boards.

This is comical.

To be clear, I have not reported anyone, or seen the need to ignore anyone. I can express myself without needed to resort to childish nonsense. This person is just paranoid. I've not even mentioned the concept or reporting anyone - this is in this persons mind only.

Some people are not able to actually debate a point.

NSAman · 29-06-2020 5:13pm

I find it interesting that BLM only see racism against blacks but do not see obvious racism against other races.

Not for one second am I condoning racism at all.

In the States you have BET (black Entertainment Television) you also have Black History Month.

Now division based on colour, in my eyes is racism.

The narrative that is being put out there in colleges and schools that whites are privileged and blacks are repressed and do not get the same equality of opportunity is running thin at this stage. On a recent trip to Madison in WI, every shop in town is boarded up. The downtown (which in most cities is including Madison) is normally a place of urban regeneration has been destroyed. The BLM movement did this. As someone who would not support racism at all, in any shape or form, this leaves nasty taste in my mouth and does NOT give the BLM movement any credence in my mind, I am am sure I am not alone.

Yes what happens to some blacks at the hands of police is horrific and what happened in MN was murder. The problem is not only with the police but also with the community at large.

Yes I know I am generalising, but a lot of this can also be said for the white community is the States also.

The lack of fathers in kids upbringing, the lack of opportunity to see a way out, the lack of education and educational resources will mean that all communities suffer.

Unfortunately, Asians are being targeted for being the ones who work hard and have a stable family structure for the most part. Colleges seem to determine that they are over represented for working hard and having that ethic passed through the generations.

White Americans too in many parts are certainly NOT privileged. Where I am located, economic woes amongst the white population (which is by far the majority) see lines upon lines at food banks. Education budgets are being cut to the bone, leading to kids leaving earlier than usual, the curriculum has been decimated in schools. Home schooling kids, is getting to be the most popular form of schooling and the results are showing between home schooled (parents have drive and knowledge) and the school system is failing.

While I understand how Blacks in poor communities are demanding equal treatment, unless they work within their own communities (which a lot are) to stop gang violence, to stop the lack of education and for fathers and parents to be present in their childrens lives, many of the issues will continue.

I see it regularly where kids both black and white many not come from wealthy families but the father and mother are present. The value systems are different. We all know that parents play a huge roll in child development. Even if dad is not present, he MUST play an important role in any of his childrens development. That is what being a parent is. The current breakdown in many families in the States IS leading to more issues amongst children.

Some are mentioning Chicago on this thread. Black kids ARE shooting each other, but also Mexican kids are too. Gang issues in cities like Chicago are always going to be a major issue, with Chicago it is no different. The only solution to stop (or attempt to stop) this violence is by strong parenting. I see many black families, working hard, doing the right thing trying to raise their kids right. The environment that these families live in are difficult, yet not insurmountable. The problems come with mothers and fathers who dont provide good parenting (and this is not just a black issue but from what I can see more a black issue) the kids are lead astray in gangs, leading to gun crime and drugs etc......

American is currently on the precipice of disaster IMHO. A divided nation on political issues. The further divide on racial issues, combined with a media that is pushing hard to make Black Cool and white Privileged is in my experience pushing people to resent each other. Having been very immersed in America since I was in my teens, I can honestly say this country is not a safe place anymore there is tension everywhere.

Chris_Heilong · 29-06-2020 5:17pm

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

Great response. I have that poster on ignore and can now only see their posts when they are quoted by other posters.

I would urge caution as their line of posting is designed to provoke you into a response which they can then report to mods.

What klaz posted is spot on, it is cultural as opposed to some boogeyman keeping the black man down, Lots do become successful infact unless you were living under a rock the last American president was Black, which is the highest esteemed position in America but many end up in broken families and US news as well as their peers keep telling them that there is no point trying as the system is rigged against them which is not true at all as Asian Americans have proven, try hard get rewarded. Obama did try to address the issue and said we must end black people keeping other black people down. Society cant lift people out of poverty they have to try and do that themselves.

29-06-2020 5:20pm

SozBbz wrote: »

Can you not see that its not just black people perpetuating their own bad behaviour, its society as a whole that perpetuates the status quo.

Be more specific.

I'm not disputing that there are negative aspects to black culture, but at the same time i can see that if you live in a society that perpetuates inequality so that people from certain communities don't get the same level of education and are surrounded by deprivation and criminality....and then say its their fault when history repeats itself?

At the same time, you're dismissing the negatives and focusing on the external issues of discrimination. That black communities don't receive the same levels of investment as (many, not all) white communities is well known, although, the case could be made that Black communities have managed to destroy so much infrastructure and services in their areas, that such investment would be a waste. It's extremely difficult to find teachers and others to work in black communities due to the racism they receive from black people themselves. Basically if you're not black, you're not welcome.

If you're white and middle class then maybe you just see this as "not my problem" and its that tacit acceptance that's actually part of the problem.

I'm not saying black people haven't made strides in the last decades, but similarly to womens rights, just because things are better than they were, doesn't mean that theres not more to do.

... you skipped over what I said. There are millions of Black people in middle class homes, and also (this is extra) over a million of black people living upper class lifestyles in the US. How did they achieve that success when they would have experienced the same levels of discrimination.....?

And... don't get me started on womens rights. You have enough on your plate with black issues.

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 5:22pm

NSAman wrote: »

I find it interesting that BLM only see racism against blacks but do not see obvious racism against other races.

Not for one second am I condoning racism at all.

In the States you have BET (black Entertainment Television) you also have Black History Month.

Now division based on colour, in my eyes is racism.

To my mind, its not absolute.

You can support the BLM movement and also support other social causes, including struggles faced by other minorities. BLM is particularly topical at the moment on the back of a number of high profile cases. This has in turn triggered conversations in other countries where perhaps the problem isnt as extreme but nevertheless discrimination exists.

Also, there is context to a lot of this stuff. Its true that marginalised groups are able to do things that the dominant players in society cant/wont/shouldnt do. Like BET - yeah it makes me cringe a bit but at the same time, I can appreciate that black people might like it because they feel underrepresented on mainstream channels historically. Sure its the same argument that some men make against the womens mini marathon - something which I also find a bit cringe but I can see its broadly a force for good.

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 5:28pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

You're either for equality or supremacy. You can't have it both ways.

Indeed, which is why BLM movement is reminding people that BLM too.

Mr. Karate · 29-06-2020 5:29pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Indeed, which is why BLM movement is reminding people that BLM too.

Except they actually want superior rights. Not equal rights.

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 5:29pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

"can we get this changed"...are you serious? Why don't they change it themselves by valuing education, keeping their kids out of crime, ensuring that black fathers stick around (something like 65% of black fathers in UK leave the mother of their child as single mothers, compared with 15% of white fathers).

Always be on the look out for people trying to find an external bogeyman. Reminds me of a teenager who blames their parents, their teachers and everyone else for their own problems.

So its all in their heads and their is no institutionalized racism in the US?

As soon as slavery was abolished everyone was equal?

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 5:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's probably cultural rather than genetic. A cycle of behavior passed from father to son, or from mother to son, (depending on how the mother behaved after the father left)

In any case though, he's right about the valuing education, and keeping their kids out of crime. A lot of research over the last decade suggests that one of the biggest reasons for Black males not becoming successful is due to their exposure to crime. Failing education would be another glaringly obvious factor, and yet, look at the rolemodels in Black culture... the pimp, gangster, rapper, etc. People who speak of killing others, insulting women, and calling other black people Nigg**.

Culture plays an important role in the development of people, but within Black culture there is so little debate about changing themselves. Instead, everything is someone elses fault. There are millions of Black people living middle class lifestyles... what was different for them? That's the question you should be asking, since they would have faced the same racial discrimination.

So what you are saying is that all black people should value education and avoiding crime, perhaps become doctors and lawyers, and *then* get harassed and shot by the police because of the colour of the skin.

How you can saw "culture plays an important role" and keep a straight face is beyond me. What about the culture of slavery and racism?

Those same people living middle class lifestyles are also unfairly targeted by police, harassed and in many cases killed without repurcussions.
How are you not getting this? Its not just a bunch of lazy feckers trying to "get some" from the white man.

GreeBo · 29-06-2020 5:34pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Except they actually want superior rights. Not equal rights.

What are these superior rights? Can you share some links?

Is there any chance that perhaps you are taking the word of a few people who are using BLM for their own ends?
Perhaps I can point you to neo nazis and the KKK to give examples of how the WLM movement is looking for supremacy?

29-06-2020 5:42pm

GreeBo wrote: »

So what you are saying is that all black people should value education and avoiding crime, perhaps become doctors and lawyers, and *then* get harassed and shot by the police because of the colour of the skin.

You could just stick to what I said.... it's really not that difficult. No need to make **** up.:rolleyes:

How you can saw "culture plays an important role" and keep a straight face is beyond me. What about the culture of slavery and racism?

A culture that Black people themselves have encouraged to exist by refusing to move past it. Instead, every conversation, every debate, every complaint refers back to the history of slavery, and the issues of racism...

They haven't done it alone. The White populations in the US have played a major role in the creation of such a culture, but since the civil rights movement with Martin L King, what attempts have Black people made to put that history behind them? The African American activists and people have done a very good job at maintaining that culture of negative perspectives/attitudes.

Those same people living middle class lifestyles are also unfairly targeted by police, harassed and in many cases killed without repurcussions

Citations. please..

How are you not getting this? Its not just a bunch of lazy feckers trying to "get some" from the white man.

How am I not getting what? The complete acceptance of a victim mentality? Or that I seek a more balanced viewpoint to the situation recognising the responsibilities of both the Black and White populations.... Shocking isn't it?

Mr. Karate · 29-06-2020 5:42pm

GreeBo wrote: »

What are these superior rights? Can you share some links?

Is there any chance that perhaps you are taking the word of a few people who are using BLM for their own ends?
Perhaps I can point you to neo nazis and the KKK to give examples of how the WLM movement is looking for supremacy?

What rights do Whites have but they don't?

Annasopra · 29-06-2020 5:43pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

But the whole BLM bull**** movement is about exactly that and it's an attack against white people.

I tell you for a fact if I went out tomorrow an done up a sign white lives matter.... I'd be attacked.

Its an attack against racists. Not White People. Racists.

cfuserkildare · 29-06-2020 5:46pm

So the fella that flew the White Lives Matter over the Etihad didn't get Sacked?

SozBbz · 29-06-2020 5:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Be more specific.

At the same time, you're dismissing the negatives and focusing on the external issues of discrimination. That black communities don't receive the same levels of investment as (many, not all) white communities is well known, although, the case could be made that Black communities have managed to destroy so much infrastructure and services in their areas, that such investment would be a waste. It's extremely difficult to find teachers and others to work in black communities due to the racism they receive from black people themselves. Basically if you're not black, you're not welcome.

... you skipped over what I said. There are millions of Black people in middle class homes, and also (this is extra) over a million of black people living upper class lifestyles in the US. How did they achieve that success when they would have experienced the same levels of discrimination.....?

And... don't get me started on womens rights. You have enough on your plate with black issues.

This point is not constrained to black people - there are plenty of deprived communities in Dublin or Ireland more generally that are largely white or majority white, that destroy lots of infrastructure. But saying that further investment is pointless is just how ghettos get created and perpetuated and you'd be condemning future generations.

I find it amazing that people can't see that inputs define outputs in most cases, unless theres intervention. If society creates all these disenfranchised people who feel like they're nothing to lose and their life isnt worth much anyway.... and then act surprised when these same people behave like people who don't value their lives? Its perfectly foreseeable.

I know there are middle class and even wealthy black people -obviously there are, but is there a proportionate number? We know there isn't.
How do you explain how many people of colour are in prison in the US relative to the overall population?

I know if I broke the law, I'd reasonably fancy my chances in front of the courts because;
1. I'd present well - educated, well dressed, articulate
2. I know my rights and expect to be treated well and fairly
3. I can afford good legal representation

Thats because I'm a product of my own middle class environment.

Not everyone has all that and we know those that don't tend to have worse outcomes.

Mr. Karate · 29-06-2020 5:48pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its an attack against racists. Not White People. Racists.

Which conveniently enough s every White person alive today. And only White people.

BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

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