B&Q Refusing Cash Tranactions

Paullimerick · 06-06-2020 8:03pm

L1011 wrote:

Most people under 40 would never have had a chequebook and the cheque guarantee card was removed years ago - they're about as relevant now as fax machines.

They still work perfectly. And many business still take them with no question about it.

06-06-2020 8:03pm

L1011 wrote: »

Most people under 40 would never have had a chequebook and the cheque guarantee card was removed years ago - they're about as relevant now as fax machines.

If places like coffee shops start taking it again I'd expect a 'card discount' to come in (coupled with an across the board price increase) to cover the cost and effort of cash.

There are obvious reasons for retailers concern about accepting cheques which do not apply to cash though.

Would you really expect a card discount in coffee shops considering a high percentage of their transactions would be tap? Seems a poor business decision.

L1011 · 06-06-2020 8:03pm

charlie14 wrote: »

What can I tell you, from many business`s I have dealt with they prefer cash and I prefer paying in cash as I find it has more advantages than card.
I withdraw my salary in a few transactions, and as much as it annoys me, that is the only charge I pay banks. If business`s do not wish to take legal tender for their products, best of luck too them. I have never found a problem finding ones that do. Even quite a few that will give a discount for cash.

We live in very different worlds.

L1011 · 06-06-2020 8:05pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Would you really expect a card discount in coffee shops considering a high percentage of their transactions would be tap? Seems a poor business decision.

Once they've ramped up the base prices to include the actual cost of cash handling.

Rather like how base prices were upped to "offer" reusable cup discounts - when we could still use them!

charlie14 · 06-06-2020 8:07pm

L1011 wrote: »

We live in very different worlds.

Sounds that way. Maybe you should try giving mine a go for awhile. It does have its advantages.

addaword · 06-06-2020 8:09pm

L1011 wrote: »

The cost to retailers for card transactions was slashed some years ago.

Still is high enough. You will find most retailers
are charged hundreds if not thousands of euro each month for taking cards, by the banks.

L1011 · 06-06-2020 8:12pm

addaword wrote: »

Still is high enough. You will find most retailers
are charged hundreds if not thousands of euro each month for taking cards, by the banks.

And the same or more for cash handling and change supplies for a lower % of their turnover; plus the security and insurance costs.

Mrs OBumble · 06-06-2020 8:13pm

Do any of you remember the Ulster Bank systems meltdown from a few years ago ..

charlie14 · 06-06-2020 8:15pm

L1011 wrote: »

Once they've ramped up the base prices to include the actual cost of cash handling.

Rather like how base prices were upped to "offer" reusable cup discounts - when we could still use them!

What do you think they will do if they manage to get rid of cash. Raise or cut card fees?
It`s not in the nature of banks when they have you over a barrel not to screw you for every cent they can.

L1011 · 06-06-2020 8:16pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do any of you remember the Ulster Bank systems meltdown from a few years ago ..

When debit cards still worked but you couldn't get cash out without queuing for hours? Yes.

charlie14 wrote: »

What do you think they will do if they manage to get rid of cash. Raise or cut card fees?
It`s not in the nature of banks when they have you over a barrel not to screw you for every cent they can.

Banks have huge volumes of fintech rivals for card payments. They don't for cash.

Taking out cash is going to continue to get dearer.

06-06-2020 8:20pm

L1011 wrote: »

Once they've ramped up the base prices to include the actual cost of cash handling.

Rather like how base prices were upped to "offer" reusable cup discounts - when we could still use them!

I agree about costs, my own business went from predominantly cash/cheques 20 years ago to now being predominantly electronic today. Lodging cash is costly a pain in the arse compared to card payments today. It is straight in the bank, faster, cleaner and statements can just be handed to accountant for taxation. But it would be foolish to refuse cash as a form of payment, as like the op, some people do not like using cards and there is no good business reason to risk alienation of those that do.

There is a cost benefit for the shop to offer a discount for using a reusable cup, it reduces the cost of the cups they have to buy, the profit is in selling the coffee, not the cup they serve it in. Also, it appeals to people who are sensitive to the environmental impact of waste. I’m not sure that banning cash payments will have the same appeal to customers.

charlie14 · 06-06-2020 8:27pm

L1011 wrote: »

Banks have huge volumes of fintech rivals for card payments. They don't for cash.

Taking out cash is going to continue to get dearer.

Amazing how rivals in the financial sector can all pay such an equally small rate on deposits, yet can charge a very simila rrate in interest with them all being rival.;)

addaword · 06-06-2020 8:31pm

I am sure teachers offering grinds will hope cash never disappears anyway!

L1011 · 06-06-2020 8:33pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Amazing how rivals in the financial sector can all pay such an equally small rate on deposits, yet can charge a very simila rrate in interest with them all being rival.;)

Interest rates are all based on ECB policy. Card usage fees are not.

You are going to find it dearer and harder to use cash in a manner that will not apply to card payments no matter what you may think

06-06-2020 8:37pm

L1011 wrote: »

Interest rates are all based on ECB policy. Card usage fees are not.

You are going to find it dearer and harder to use cash in a manner that will not apply to card payments no matter what you may think

I think you are being a bit naive. As we move more toward reliance on electronic payments, it leaves the banks free reign on costs associated with those transactions. There will be no downward pressure on electronic transaction costs if they become the norm.

L1011 · 06-06-2020 8:39pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I think you are being a bit naive. As we move more toward reliance on electronic payments, it leaves the banks free reign on costs associated with those transactions. There will be no downward pressure on electronic transaction costs if they become the norm.

Except the effort and capital to become a bank in the cash world is sufficient to keep out proper competition - and that doesn't exist in cards. Someone who can shave a tenth of a percent off and still make money will pop up.

That's how we've ended up with some of the cheapest mobile packages in the world for instance. I pay a tenner a month for what costs 25 as an EU average and closer to 60 in the US due to differing startup and regulatory regimes

charlie14 · 06-06-2020 8:44pm

L1011 wrote: »

Interest rates are all based on ECB policy. Card usage fees are not.

You are going to find it dearer and harder to use cash in a manner that will not apply to card payments no matter what you may think

Well if card usage fees are not based on ECB policy, then if the opportunity availed itself there does not seem to be much to stop them charging whatever they feel like.

06-06-2020 8:44pm

L1011 wrote: »

Except the effort and capital to become a bank in the cash world is sufficient to keep out proper competition - and that doesn't exist in cards. Someone who can shave a tenth of a percent off and still make money will pop up.

That's how we've ended up with some of the cheapest mobile packages in the world for instance

Phones are disposable and when contracts run out, mobile providers know that customers look at other providers, often with deals associated with phone purchase. The same does not happen in the banking sector. I don’t have any data to back this up but I would imagine that the number of people who change their bank current accounts, or even consider it on a yearly basis like they do their mobile packages, is quite small.

Edit: In the first 6 months of 2017, there were 5 million current bank accounts in Ireland, approx 2800 changed banks during that period. I would suspect a lot more changed mobile phone providers in that period.

https://www.moneyguideireland.com/switching-bank-accounts.html

meeeeh · 06-06-2020 8:56pm

I'm pretty sure that those who like to gamble and are applying for a mortgage wouldn't want cash to disappear. I'm also not sure comparisons with Sweden are relevant. Where I come from cheques are not legal tender for at least 30 years and yet they are still used in Ireland. Every country has their own specifics. I also find it entertaining how Revolout is considered the only electronic option. A company based in London (out of EU) and underpinned by Lithuanian central bank is preferable to EU based bank (Berlin) underpinned by German Central Bank (n26).

L1011 · 06-06-2020 8:56pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Well if card usage fees are not based on ECB policy, then if the opportunity availed itself there does not seem to be much to stop them charging whatever they feel like.

Look beyond the main banks

Dav010 wrote: »

Phones are disposable and when contracts run out, mobile providers know that customers look at other providers, often with deals associated with phone purchase. The same does not happen in the banking sector. I don’t have any data to back this up but I would imagine that the number of people who change their bank current accounts, or even consider it on a yearly basis like they do their mobile packages, is quite small.

Edit: In the first 6 months of 2017, there were 5 million current bank accounts in Ireland, approx 2800 changed banks during that period. I would suspect a lot more changed mobile phone providers in that period.

https://www.moneyguideireland.com/switching-bank-accounts.html

Most people that use the alternative card providers have just left their current account in place and don't appear in the stats

06-06-2020 9:08pm

L1011 wrote: »

Look beyond the main banks

Most people that use the alternative card providers have just left their current account in place and don't appear in the stats

I do like Revulot, and I have no doubt it’s market share is growing, but I would be surprised if it is popular to older people. I got one myself before I went to Japan last year because I could put yen on it, but if I hadn’t been travelling there, I wouldn’t have a Revulot card. All my kids use them. But going back to the subject of the thread and your assertion that shops will stop accepting cash, it is misguided as a retailer will want to offer both forms of payment in order to maximise sales. But as time goes on, the twenty somethings now are unlikely to go back to predominantly using cash, the teenagers today who tap, Apple Pay, Uber, buy online etc, will rarely if ever use cash.

gmisk · 06-06-2020 9:12pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that those who like to gamble and are applying for a mortgage wouldn't want cash to disappear. I'm also not sure comparisons with Sweden are relevant. Where I come from cheques are not legal tender for at least 30 years and yet they are still used in Ireland. Every country has their own specifics. I also find it entertaining how Revolout is considered the only electronic option. A company based in London (out of EU) and underpinned by Lithuanian central bank is preferable to EU based bank (Berlin) underpinned by German Central Bank (n26).

To gamble you could put money onto a revolut/tide/monese or similar in about 10 seconds if you don't want it to show up on a bank statement...

charlie14 · 06-06-2020 9:13pm

L1011 wrote: »

Look beyond the main banks

If I was to trust a bank ( even though a contradiction in terms) I would at least want one that was in some way regulated.

From what meeeeh has posted in relation to a card favored here by some, Revolout, it would not fill me with a lot of confidence or faith either.

None of those a problem that can be associated with cash.

L1011 · 06-06-2020 9:22pm

gmisk wrote: »

To gamble you could put money onto a revolut/tide/monese or similar in about 10 seconds if you don't want it to show up on a bank statement...

Mortgage firms ask for those operators statements if you heavily use them

meeeeh · 06-06-2020 9:32pm

charlie14 wrote: »

From what meeeeh has posted in relation to a card favored here by some, Revolout, it would not fill me with a lot of confidence or faith either.

In fairness Revolout is probably perfectly safe but for me N26 is preferred option and the options and interface they offer are more attractive than traditional banks. However I tried to set up direct debit for bin collection and they don't accept non irish Ibans so with any of them you still need irish account. I use so little cash I'm stuck when trying to pay for parking or daughter's gymnastics (cash only) but there is something I like about anonymity cash offers. I just like the option even though I almost never need it. Plus there is something satisfying about coin jar.

Btw takeouts we used all accept cash and while I don't overly pay with cash unless I have to I didn't notice anyone having issues paying with it.

charlie14 · 06-06-2020 9:47pm

meeeeh wrote: »

In fairness Revolout is probably perfectly safe but for me N26 is preferred option and the options and interface they offer are more attractive than traditional banks. However I tried to set up direct debit for bin collection and they don't accept non irish Ibans so with any of them you still need irish account. I use so little cash I'm stuck when trying to pay for parking or daughter's gymnastics (cash only) but there is something I like about anonymity cash offers. I just like the option even though I almost never need it. Plus there is something satisfying about coin jar.

Btw takeouts we used all accept cash and while I don't overly pay with cash unless I have to I didn't notice anyone having issues paying with it.

I thought that statement about takeouts a bit strange. I cannot see Chinese for one, being the fine entrepreneurial people they are, turning away business because they would not take cash.

L1011 · 06-06-2020 10:07pm

Arguing with moderation on thread is never acceptable. Post deleted and will be actioned later, quoting post deleted for cohesion reasons only

Firblog · 06-06-2020 10:37pm

charlie14 wrote: »

I thought that statement about takeouts a bit strange. I cannot see Chinese for one, being the fine entrepreneurial people they are, turning away business because they would not take cash.

Local takeaway only accepts cash

get directions to nearest drinklink if trying to pay with card

Guy:Incognito · 07-06-2020 12:21am

I havnt used cash to pay for a take away in about a year. chippers, pizza places etc all do cards . If Im getting it delivered its paid online.

I havnt used an atm this year.

Darc19 · 07-06-2020 12:25am

addaword wrote: »

Still is high enough. You will find most retailers
are charged hundreds if not thousands of euro each month for taking cards, by the banks.

Incorrect.

Even a medium single store retailer will get a debit card rate of about 0.3% and credit cards of 0.8%.

A bit of negotiating will bring that down.

Banks will charge 0.45% for lodging cash.

A family member is a retailer. She does not like cash due to the cost and inconvenience.

07-06-2020 12:34am

Darc19 wrote: »

.

A family member is a retailer. She does not like cash due to the cost and inconvenience.

Would he/she refuse to accept cash at any other time though? I prefer card payments, but as a business, we would not refuse a paying customer who prefers cash over card.

freshpopcorn · 07-06-2020 12:59am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I havnt used cash to pay for a take away in about a year. chippers, pizza places etc all do cards . If Im getting it delivered its paid online.

I havnt used an atm this year.

In my local town
3 chippers don't take card and 2 does.
1 Chinese doesn't take card and the 1 does but they don't like using it I found it the past.

Flickerfusion · 07-06-2020 1:02am

I’ve noticed a lot of smaller retailers who didn’t take cards before now all of a sudden have card machines and have taken to them quite well.

I think you’ll definitely see cash becoming less used but I doubt it will vanish.

I was up in Iceland last year and they really don’t use cash at all, largely because it’s impractical to bank cash when you’re very, very far from a bank.

It makes a lot of sense in rural areas.

Also the point brought up about older people is more about familiarity with tech. I’ve relatives in their mid 80s who moved to electronic pension payments and have taken to debit cards and even Apple Pay like a duck to water.

It means no need to trudge to a post office and a lot more autonomy and safety.

Carrying around large volumes of cash just isn’t a great idea.

freshpopcorn · 07-06-2020 1:09am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Also the point brought up about older people is more about familiarity with tech. I’ve relatives in their mid 80s who moved to electronic pension payments and have taken to debit cards and even Apple Pay like a duck to water.

It means no need to trudge to a post office and a lot more autonomy and safety.

I think when you've a relatives who is some way tech savey you should be fine with getting them to use cards.
However some people just can't wrap their heads around it all.
I think there's also a big social element with going to the post office for some every week.

Flickerfusion · 07-06-2020 1:14am

It always seems a bit sad to me that queuing at the Post Office here is seen as a key rural social venue. Surely our older folks should have some better social opportunities?

Really says a lot that we don’t have something more sociable than that.

freshpopcorn · 07-06-2020 1:21am

Flickerfusion wrote: »

It always seems a bit sad to me that queuing at the Post Office here is seen as a key rural social venue. Surely our older folks should have some better social opportunities?

Really says a lot that we don’t have something more sociable than that.

I think it's one of the things they see as a social interaction.
It's the middle or early in the day and it's to late for social dancing or bingo or what ever activity they might want.
The only other things that are on are stuff in day centers, etc and they'd be offended if you'd suggest going to them.

noa2020 · 07-06-2020 1:24am

charlie14 wrote: »

If a business does not want my cash I would take it they did not want my custom and go somewhere that appreciated it the custom.

The retail store I’m currently working in along with all our competitors on the street (who make up the entire Irish industry) would happily turn away your cash. Nobody wants to deal with the cash and I fully expect it will be become the norm for us. For our industry, we don’t want the to deal with the type of people who pay with cash. Generally, they don’t result in repeat business and present the biggest problems in terms of product issues later on but that’s a different conversation.

That being said, I had a lady in the other day who’s card was declined and I accepted her cash. Sure it presented me with a risk and resulted in more work at the end of the day for me but at least she understood the risk, tried to avoid it and was very thankful of it.

Bass Reeves · 07-06-2020 2:08am

Here is the real nub of the matter. If I go into my local BnQ and head for the paint counter. I get them to mix 40 litres of masonry paint in am obscure colour, I also get them to mix another 50 litres of mat silk in 2-3 dark colours,as well as mixing 10-15 litres of satinwood in s colour of my choice. After that I arrive over at the wood cutting service and get them to cut 10 sheets of 8X4 ply into 1 inch squares.

Now when I arrive to pay at the till and hand them part of the dirty wad I have in the sole of my sock will they refuse it.

L1011 · 07-06-2020 2:17am

They'll likely still refuse to let you have the items on the basis that you ignored the huge amount of signage

They'd also have realised you were taking the piss a lot earlier than the till. Or you'd have been directed to get a trade account based on the volume, with its own payment terms that are not handled at the consumer tills

Maybe try a realistic scenario next time

Mrs OBumble · 07-06-2020 2:20am

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Anyone that uses filthy cash during a pandemic is being inconsiderate of retail workers.

Your post reminded me of this sign, which I took a pic of in a Galway city-fringe (Terryland) pharmacy last weekend.

For those having difficulty reading, it says

"Due to Covid-19 we cannot accept money taken from anywhere other than your purse, wallet or pocket"

Make of it what you will.

Vic_08 · 07-06-2020 2:20am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Here is the real nub of the matter. If I go into my local BnQ and head for the paint counter. I get them to mix 40 litres of masonry paint in am obscure colour, I also get them to mix another 50 litres of mat silk in 2-3 dark colours,as well as mixing 10-15 litres of satinwood in s colour of my choice. After that I arrive over at the wood cutting service and get them to cut 10 sheets of 8X4 ply into 1 inch squares.

Now when I arrive to pay at the till and hand them part of the dirty wad I have in the sole of my sock will they refuse it.

Maybe, Maybe not.

What is not in question is that anyone who would do that knowing they have a no cash policy in place is an utter prick, especially as the people you would be purposely creating conflict with would be low wage employees with no control over the policy you are raging against.

freshpopcorn · 07-06-2020 2:38am

For anybody who wants to use cash you might be better off sticking to your local paint shop or co-op/builders providers.
My local co-op would sell paint, fuel, farm suppliers, building supplies, homeware and would generally be busy.
They'd normally have four tills on the go and wait for it one card machine between them.

07-06-2020 8:12am

noa2020 wrote: »

The retail store I’m currently working in along with all our competitors on the street (who make up the entire Irish industry) would happily turn away your cash. Nobody wants to deal with the cash and I fully expect it will be become the norm for us. For our industry, we don’t want the to deal with the type of people who pay with cash. Generally, they don’t result in repeat business and present the biggest problems in terms of product issues later on but that’s a different conversation.

That being said, I had a lady in the other day who’s card was declined and I accepted her cash. Sure it presented me with a risk and resulted in more work at the end of the day for me but at least she understood the risk, tried to avoid it and was very thankful of it.

Retailers don’t happily turn away customers, not in good times, especially not in bad times. Go ask the owners of the store you work in, they will confirm that.

It is understandable that cash is not being accepted at the moment, people are averse to touching anything an unclean hand might have touched, at the moment. Many also haven’t been out much so don’t have the usual cash amounts in their pockets, so not using cash isn’t a big deal. But as things get back to normal, the people who liked carrying cash before will again, why would you risk losing trade by bringing in a policy that doesn’t have an upside which is reciprocal?

As a business owner, I prefer card, but I would also prefer a cash customer than not have that customer at all. Employees often think they know how a business is run and what owners prefer, if you’ve been there long enough you might have a good idea, but refusing a customer with cash in normal times, is one sure fire way to piss some people off and no matter what you think, if you refuse cash customers, you risk reducing income and profit.

As a matter of interest, what are the type of people who pay in cash, that you don’t want to deal with?

07-06-2020 8:20am

L1011 wrote: »

They'll likely still refuse to let you have the items on the basis that you ignored the huge amount of signage

They'd also have realised you were taking the piss a lot earlier than the till. Or you'd have been directed to get a trade account based on the volume, with its own payment terms that are not handled at the consumer tills

Maybe try a realistic scenario next time

You’ve never been to a paint shop or a builders providers, have you? You walk around the shop or stand at the desk and you will hear the staff regularly being asked for items like this, albeit the 1 inch squares might have been a step too far.

But you think the shop, at a normal time, would refuse a cash purchase? You instead think the hardware store would want an account set up and give the goods on credit, at a time when everyone is telling us that we might be heading into a deep recession?

I can only think that most of the posters saying that cash should be banned outright do not own a business, or have a business where cash might not be the norm due to the amounts owed. But as an owner of two businesses where cash is often used and accepted for payment, it would be idiotic and poor business management to refuse a customer just because they want to pay with cash.

By offering to accept both card and cash, you cater for everyone bar the very few that still want to write a cheque. Over time, cash may well be phased out, a recent study shows its use is declining, particularly by younger people, but you don’t limit your own business to one type of payment and in the process lose customers who want to use the other type.

Hannibal_Smith · 07-06-2020 9:03am

Every day's a school day. I thought the same as you OP, that shops have to accept legal tender, but I just googled it there and apparently shops can demand any method of payment they like.

Would have been nice if they told you this before queuing for 20 mins and then finding out!

JohnC. · 07-06-2020 9:21am

I wish people would stop talking as if old people are too stupid to use a card. That includes some old people themselves. In my experience, they are perfectly capable, if they just try. Age isn't a barrier, just willingness is. I know someone who turned 100 last year who would put some people literally half her age to shame, just because they don't want to try. Some of those younger old people have eventually tried and love it now.

07-06-2020 9:23am

JohnC. wrote: »

I wish people would stop talking as if old people are too stupid to use a card. That includes some old people themselves. In my experience, they are perfectly capable, if they just try. Age isn't a barrier, just willingness is. I know someone who turned 100 last year who would put some people literally half her age to shame, just because they don't want to try. Some of those younger old people have eventually tried and love it now.

Where are you seeing this?

JohnC. · 07-06-2020 9:27am

Dav010 wrote: »

Where are you seeing this?

Waterford/south Kilkenny region.

Hannibal_Smith · 07-06-2020 9:37am

JohnC. wrote: »

I wish people would stop talking as if old people are too stupid to use a card. That includes some old people themselves. In my experience, they are perfectly capable, if they just try. Age isn't a barrier, just willingness is. I know someone who turned 100 last year who would put some people literally half her age to shame, just because they don't want to try. Some of those younger old people have eventually tried and love it now.

My mother insists on using cash. Because the card is attached to the 'household money account' or something funny like that. So she only uses it in emergencies and will continue with cash for as long as she can... Despite the current issues.

endacl · 07-06-2020 9:40am

Nozebleed wrote: »

im sure they can request a preferred method of payment but the cant refuse legal tender.

Like stamps? Stamps are legal tender. Bring in a load of stamps and see how you get on.

B&Q Refusing Cash Tranactions

Comments