Are we more cruel or....

FrancieBrady · 06-07-2017 11:41pm #1

I clicked on a missing person thread earlier (I hope it has been deleted) and was genuinely sad to read some of the posts.
It was as if people couldn't help themselves and the need to be cool, cruel or whatever, superseded their own dignity and the feelings of anyone who might know the thread subject. It actually felt that some had a compulsion to post insensitive or cruel comments.

My question is (and flame away, I am thick skinned) is this an internet/social media phenomenon or was it always thus, we just didn't hear it.

My own opinion is it is a legacy of the internet and may one day be seen as a treatable condition.

Noveight · 06-07-2017 11:51pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My question is (and flame away, I am thick skinned) is this an internet/social media phenomenon or was it always thus, we just didn't hear it.

I think it's an internet phenomenon of sorts. Before d'internet idiots hadn't the same opportunities to spout their shíte to such a wide audience under the protection of complete anonymity.

In real life anyone who comes across as being deliberately edgy is just written off as a dickhead, and rightly so.

The_Valeyard · 06-07-2017 11:52pm

Most people are genuine, nice, decent human beings trying to live their own lives.

It's the few bad apples that f*ck everything up for everyone.

wes · 07-07-2017 12:30am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I clicked on a missing person thread earlier (I hope it has been deleted) and was genuinely sad to read some of the posts.
It was as if people couldn't help themselves and the need to be cool, cruel or whatever, superseded their own dignity and the feelings of anyone who might know the thread subject. It actually felt that some had a compulsion to post insensitive or cruel comments.

My question is (and flame away, I am thick skinned) is this an internet/social media phenomenon or was it always thus, we just didn't hear it.

My own opinion is it is a legacy of the internet and may one day be seen as a treatable condition.

Penny arcade covered this:

Pinch Flat · 07-07-2017 12:30am

There's always been people who were narcissistic, machiavellian, psychopathic, and sadistic. The internet and, latterly social media, has just given them an avenue to air their views and seek the attention they crave.

wes · 07-07-2017 12:33am

Oh and this recent study:
Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists

Honestly its best to ignore, block the trolls etc. There not worth bothering. A lot of people online just want to get a rise out of people and nothing more.

AllForIt · 07-07-2017 12:48am

My brother got into a disturbing habit of posting 'Missing Persons' articles on his timeline on Fakebook.

It was one of many things that make me realize that FB was not for me. And do I miss it a year on? Schnope.

freshpopcorn · 07-07-2017 1:05am

Well if your referring to the thread that's on here about a missing person. These views are what are being said in public as well so it's not just an internet thing!

Irish Guitarist · 07-07-2017 1:07am

It's people looking for attention. They have the power to reach the world through the internet but the problem is no one cares about them. They have no creative talent, no actual sense of humour or no thought provoking insights. The only way of grabbing peoples attention is to say something outrageous.

There was a three year old girl that was murdered in Wales (I think) a few years ago. There was a thread here about some cunt that had started a Facebook group making 'jokes' about the poor girl. The general consensus here was that this was a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

If you have a Netflix account you might find a film called The Thread interesting.

07-07-2017 1:15am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My question is (and flame away, I am thick skinned) is this an internet/social media phenomenon or was it always thus, we just didn't hear it.

Upon hearing that Lady Mountbatten had died/ buried at sea, the Queen Mother was reported to have said 'Dear Edwina, she always liked to make a splash'.

It's always been with us OP. It's in our nature not to take ourselves too seriously.

Outlaw Pete · 07-07-2017 2:32am

I don't think it's an Internet phenomenon at all as I am noticing that even in the real world (not the MTV show, sure that hasn't been on for years) people are more unconscionable now than they ever have been before.

It's every man / woman for themselves these days. Immorality is the new default state.

Strap yourselves in. Humanity is about to eat itself.

riffmongous · 07-07-2017 3:30am

How much is just edgelords though? Funnily enough it's actually becoming less and less cool to be edgy on the Internet, there's definitely a backlash growing as the pendulum swings

Samaris · 07-07-2017 8:37am

If it's any help, FrancieBrady, the more virulent ones were rereg trolls. There was a bit of an infestation last night. So don't be too worried that some of those posts seemed beyond what anyone with any hint of empathy or humanity would say, they were just muppets.

Tayschren · 07-07-2017 8:51am

Your just soft. You'll spend your life being offended by others even though nobody gives a thought to how thier actions will affect the crybabies among us.

Have a tissue

07-07-2017 8:56am

People only had what was said to them or within earshot as a guide pre internet.

The world didn't start being crueller ten years ago or anything- people who imagine that there are great and important changes to human behaviour in their lifetimes are usually being a little self-important imo.

You just now have the opportunity to read what people say when you're not there to hear it.

razorblunt · 07-07-2017 8:58am

AllForIt wrote: »

My brother got into a disturbing habit of posting 'Missing Persons' articles on his timeline on Fakebook.

It was one of many things that make me realize that FB was not for me. And do I miss it a year on? Schnope.

How do you know someone isn't on Facebook?

They'll tell you.
Are you vegan too by any chance?

ToddyDoody · 07-07-2017 1:44pm

I think it comes down to personality traits.

The empathy-hostility scale varies from person to person. The upside of the hostility side of the scale is the ability to judge a bit more impartially without emotion. The downside, a man appears on TV distraught over a missing partner and you listen / take a look at him and call him a c*nt cause you don't like the sound of him.

Correspondingly, the disadvantage of the empathy side of things is the tendency to b e unfair and give everything to your mates. This is fine as long as it's not matters of justice etc.

ScumLord · 07-07-2017 1:57pm

I'm sure it was always there, like it's nothing compared to living with someone and treating them as a slave. You'd have to have some massive disconnect from your humanity to treat a person like that. Look how Irish people treated women that got pregnant outside of wedlock, you could do or say anything to or about them because they were considered scum. Back then you were polite to the people you had to be polite to because of status and everyone else was beneath contempt.

The internet just allows those behaviours to flow unfettered by social stigmas.

Glenster · 07-07-2017 4:14pm

I look at it like this;

Posting a comment on social media/ a message board is like shouting something out on the street at passers-by.

If the world was filled with people on every corner yelling "X is missing, our prayers are with her" when they have no connection with that person you'd eventually start yelling back at them to shut up. Or you'd start being callous about the whole thing.

I find that people are a lot more respectful when its someone with a proper connection to the missing person (Although obviously if a post has the potential to reach billions there will be some freaks who'll be cruel for fun)

Samaris · 07-07-2017 7:03pm

Societies do tend to separate themselves even within (class systems, caste systems, ranking aristocracy*), with power structures that allow for power abuse. And we've seen time and time again that when certain people are given power over others, even (perhaps especially) unearned by anything but birth, or granted arbitrarily with no regard for the personality of the person weilding the power, it will get abused. The less comeback the lower status people have, the more abuse will happen.

Not a huge thing in Ireland, but even here you do see shreds of old class systems rearing their ugly heads when certain topics come up. It is a lot worse in other countries where those systems are more rigid.

So overall, if anything, (our) society is gentler than it has been in the past, although there are those that will use the anonymity of the internet to big themselves up in their own eyes by being utter asshats. That's just people, I'm afraid.

*Perhaps notable that all of those were traditionally granted by nothing more than accident of birth rather than being earned in any sort of real sense.

mariaalice · 07-07-2017 7:28pm

While the internet has made it worse it has also made it better as it give an opertunity to call someone out about their comments also it has become easier to see the difference between those with mental health issues and those who are motivated by a streak of nastiness.

Not excusing those with mental health issues everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.

Samaris · 07-07-2017 7:42pm

mariaalice wrote: »

While the internet has made it worse it has also made it better as it give an opertunity to call someone out about their comments also it has become easier to see the difference between those with mental health issues and those who are motivated by a streak of nastiness.

Not excusing those with mental health issues everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.

I dunno about that, does it? Without tone, body language, etc, it is very easy to misunderstand someone. Not to mention, a lot of rather cowardly types will say all sorts of stuff online that they'd never dare to say in person, either because they would actually feel like a heel if they had to deal with the consequences of their actions and because frankly, no-one'd like them. But that's just the effect of anonymity - how does a reader know if they're being an ass because they have a streak of nastiness in them that they like to indulge, if they're trolling for the laugh and don't really get that they're just poisoning the well for anyone else around, if they've just had a really bad day or if there's a mental issue that expresses as anger, cruelty, sharpness or wanting to make someone else feel as bad as they do. And that's before getting to the blunting effect of empathy when other people are just words on a screen.

Anongeneric · 07-07-2017 7:44pm

Your last sentence here...satire of the subject matter or are you that ignorant?

Also can anyone post a link to the the thread being discussed?

mariaalice wrote: »

While the internet has made it worse it has also made it better as it give an opertunity to call someone out about their comments also it has become easier to see the difference between those with mental health issues and those who are motivated by a streak of nastiness.

Not excusing those with mental health issues everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.

freshpopcorn · 07-07-2017 7:58pm

Anongeneric wrote: »

Also can anyone post a link to the the thread being discussed?

The only one I am aware of is this one!
A lot of the people in the thread have being following the case.(Watching Crimecall and listen to podcasts.)

mariaalice · 07-07-2017 8:00pm

Samaris wrote: »

I dunno about that, does it? Without tone, body language, etc, it is very easy to misunderstand someone. Not to mention, a lot of rather cowardly types will say all sorts of stuff online that they'd never dare to say in person, either because they would actually feel like a heel if they had to deal with the consequences of their actions and because frankly, no-one'd like them. But that's just the effect of anonymity - how does a reader know if they're being an ass because they have a streak of nastiness in them that they like to indulge, if they're trolling for the laugh and don't really get that they're just poisoning the well for anyone else around, if they've just had a really bad day or if there's a mental issue that expresses as anger, cruelty, sharpness or wanting to make someone else feel as bad as they do. And that's before getting to the blunting effect of empathy when other people are just words on a screen.

Maybe you are right, but you can tell the trolls there use to be two on here they haven't been on for a while, anyone one of them was of the ...children from council estates are feral scum..type and I often wondered if they really had though through the effects of what they were saying on someone struggling to do their best.

Boards has to take a certain amount of responsibility as well though.

B.A._Baracus · 07-07-2017 8:00pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Most people are genuine, nice, decent human beings trying to live their own lives.

It's the few bad apples that f*ck everything up for everyone.

I used to think this too. But now, honestly, I wouldn't use the word "most" - the amount of vile posted by people on the internet just makes it seem like there are more assholes in the world than decent.

The internet having anonymity just shows what people really are.

Tayschren · 07-07-2017 10:05pm

Samaris wrote: »

Societies do tend to separate themselves even within (class systems, caste systems, ranking aristocracy*), with power structures that allow for power abuse. And we've seen time and time again that when certain people are given power over others, even (perhaps especially) unearned by anything but birth, or granted arbitrarily with no regard for the personality of the person weilding the power, it will get abused. The less comeback the lower status people have, the more abuse will happen.

Not a huge thing in Ireland, but even here you do see shreds of old class systems rearing their ugly heads when certain topics come up. It is a lot worse in other countries where those systems are more rigid.

So overall, if anything, (our) society is gentler than it has been in the past, although there are those that will use the anonymity of the internet to big themselves up in their own eyes by being utter asshats. That's just people, I'm afraid.

*Perhaps notable that all of those were traditionally granted by nothing more than accident of birth rather than being earned in any sort of real sense.

Waffle, to much dope and not enough mushrooms

Have a tissue

Are we more cruel or....

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